Time To Start Buddy...

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Originally Posted by luigi modelo

I don't think Buddy is overwhelmed, and he definitely should not go to D-League. I agree with Eman and would place money that the idea of him going to D-League has not even been considered.

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I would be fine with the DLeague if it was our system he was running. I don't think sending him down to run a completely different system is going to help him. He has had plenty of game experience through his life where that isn't all the sudden going to change things. He needs to stay with the team and practice everyday which will speed the process up much quicker then DLeague. A scrimmage in practice isn't much different then the DLeague except the competition is much better. I think someone like Diallo who has had very little game experience would benefit from the DLeague more. He's someone I would sacrifice a year of not running our system to just simply get game experience and learn the major differences there are when playing a big position in the NBA coming from the college game.

I know the D League is changing and improving all the time but can anyone name a player who went down to the D League who ended up as a quality starter on a team? I'm not saying Buddy can't be the first or anything, I genuinely just can't think of a precedent there.

I really struggle with the idea that more minutes=better development for young players. I would love to see a study of one. Maybe I will try digging into some stats. Anyone have any ideas how best to measure player progression in regards to their playing time?

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

I would be fine with the DLeague if it was our system he was running. I don't think sending him down to run a completely different system is going to help him. He has had plenty of game experience through his life where that isn't all the sudden going to change things. He needs to stay with the team and practice everyday which will speed the process up much quicker then DLeague. A scrimmage in practice isn't much different then the DLeague except the competition is much better. I think someone like Diallo who has had very little game experience would benefit from the DLeague more. He's someone I would sacrifice a year of not running our system to just simply get game experience and learn the major differences there are when playing a big position in the NBA coming from the college game.

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I think sending guys down to the d league is less about learning the system and more about gaining confidence.

I think Buddy will be fine. I think his burning desire to be great, won't let him fail. On a guard heavy team this year, he just has to wait his turn.

To be honest, if we didn't sign all of these guards and were forced to start Buddy out of necessity, people would be going nuts because he is struggling with his shot. I like that we have depth at guard. I like that he isn't forced to play. I think it will help him. He will break out sooner or later.

People forget David West.

18th overall and played 13 minutes a game his rookie year. 3.8 points per game on 47%

His second year, 18 minutes a game. 6.2 points per game on 43%

His third year, 34 minutes per game. 17.1 points per game on 51%

He was a senior as well. Sometimes these guys take time to develop.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I think sending guys down to the d league is less about learning the system and more about gaining confidence.

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This whole confidence thing is being way exaggerated here. After playing sports at a somewhat high level I never once lost confidence because of a couple of bad outings. Confidence comes from your preparation and hard work. Confidence will only get you so far if your game isn't on. Learning the system is absolutely 100% more important for Buddy then going to the DLeague in some completely different system to get a confidence boost by having a few good games. Sending guys down to the DLeague is for many reasons and confidence isn't at the top of the list. If this was the case we should be expecting Brown to play like an all star because he should have all the confidence in the world.

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Originally Posted by P_B_&_G

To be honest, if we didn't sign all of these guards and were forced to start Buddy out of necessity, people would be going nuts because he is struggling with his shot. I like that we have depth at guard. I like that he isn't forced to play. I think it will help him. He will break out sooner or later.

People forget David West.

18th overall and played 13 minutes a game his rookie year. 3.8 points per game on 47%

His second year, 18 minutes a game. 6.2 points per game on 43%

His third year, 34 minutes per game. 17.1 points per game on 51%

He was a senior as well. Sometimes these guys take time to develop.

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I completely agree. He simply just needs time to work on his game and pick up the system. It will make a big difference when he doesn't have to be out there thinking constantly and questioning what he's doing because he doesn't fully have a grasp of the system. He's not all the sudden going to start dominating because he woke up on the right side of the bed and got a little confidence boost. He needs time like many others needed to work on his game and get a full grasp of everything.

I think he is working on his confidence!!!

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Buddy will play MUCH better once he learns the system. He's a rookie. He is a great player. Gentry isn't forcing it and that's smart on his part. We want Buddy to watch the game. His 3 point shot isn't broken. I PROMISE he will make MANY 3s as a pelican. He will get much better soon. He's humble unlike Austin Rivers. He will learn.


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Originally Posted by Jabberwalker

I know the D League is changing and improving all the time but can anyone name a player who went down to the D League who ended up as a quality starter on a team? I'm not saying Buddy can't be the first or anything, I genuinely just can't think of a precedent there.

I really struggle with the idea that more minutes=better development for young players. I would love to see a study of one. Maybe I will try digging into some stats. Anyone have any ideas how best to measure player progression in regards to their playing time?

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I think Whiteside, Danny Green, Jeremy Lin or Marcin Gortat, all spent some time in D-league.

Progression is hard to quantify in NBA given that team and oppenent plays have impact on the numbers. If possible I would take the average improvement of PER, ORTG and DRT per month but I don't think it's easy to find.

I'm not sure D-League is what he needs, just needs to get a roll on with his shot and show Gentry he can play smarter positional basketball. He can do that in team scrimmages, and calm down when hes in the game.

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Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

Buddy will play MUCH better once he learns the system. He's a rookie. He is a great player. Gentry isn't forcing it and that's smart on his part. We want Buddy to watch the game. His 3 point shot isn't broken. I PROMISE he will make MANY 3s as a pelican. He will get much better soon. He's humble unlike Austin Rivers. He will learn.


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This sort of reminds myself of something I let get lost in all these debates on Buddy. Gentry's system is loved by players in part because it gives them a lot more autonomy then other systems. But with that comes, in a sense, more responsibility and the need for a higher BBIQ in order to operate proficiently in it. I mean in a Gentry system you are trying to get up and down the court in a hurry, make split decisions on reads, passes, and shot selection, all to end a possession relatively early in the shot clock so defenses can't get set. Then held accountable for playing tough transition defense and playing it mostly error free.

I would imagine that the adjustment period for a rookie would be a bit steeper coming into a Gentry system then many others. Not to mention Gentry's somewhat ADD approach to lineup adjustments this season and the undefined roles people are still working out.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

I think he is working on his confidence!!!

Attachment 6214

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That chick is tiny. An MB

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Originally Posted by Blattman

I think Whiteside, Danny Green, Jeremy Lin or Marcin Gortat, all spent some time in D-league.

Progression is hard to quantify in NBA given that team and oppenent plays have impact on the numbers. If possible I would take the average improvement of PER, ORTG and DRT per month but I don't think it's easy to find.

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If I have downtime at work I'll try to do something with those stats. Thanks for the info, and hood call wiyh the d league players. Thanks for replying. You always bring real quality to the board.
Off-topic, I recall you speaking about Soccer at one point and given you being a fan of Blatt I'm wondering if you are in Europe. Also, what soccer clubs do you support? It's the only other sport I pay attention to and so few are fans of my teams that it is fun to see fans of either sport supporting either of my teams.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

I think he is working on his confidence!!!

Attachment 6214

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Yuck, waaaaaay to small for me. Buddy can easily get him a fine island woman.


*Chatty Patty deactivated*

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Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

Buddy will play MUCH better once he learns the system. He's a rookie. He is a great player. Gentry isn't forcing it and that's smart on his part. We want Buddy to watch the game. His 3 point shot isn't broken. I PROMISE he will make MANY 3s as a pelican. He will get much better soon. He's humble unlike Austin Rivers. He will learn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Who are you and why should I trust your promises?

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

This whole confidence thing is being way exaggerated here. After playing sports at a somewhat high level I never once lost confidence because of a couple of bad outings. Confidence comes from your preparation and hard work. Confidence will only get you so far if your game isn't on. Learning the system is absolutely 100% more important for Buddy then going to the DLeague in some completely different system to get a confidence boost by having a few good games. Sending guys down to the DLeague is for many reasons and confidence isn't at the top of the list. If this was the case we should be expecting Brown to play like an all star because he should have all the confidence in the world.

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Well confidence is a factor. Some times without even knowing it. I can't be in the man's head but there's times where he's hesitant to shoot. For the guy who just lead college in scoring to me points to a lack of confidence. For me I blame Gentry more than necessarily Hield. He should be allowed to be aggressive if I was coaching Buddy I would have started him out the gate and told him to shoot any time he's open. His development is high on the list of this teams success. Maybe only 2nd to Davis' continued development.

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

Who are you and why should I trust your promises?

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I am Greg Popovich's double. I promise you Buddy is going to make significant progress.


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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Well confidence is a factor. Some times without even knowing it. I can't be in the man's head but there's times where he's hesitant to shoot. For the guy who just lead college in scoring to me points to a lack of confidence. For me I blame Gentry more than necessarily Hield. He should be allowed to be aggressive if I was coaching Buddy I would have started him out the gate and told him to shoot any time he's open. His development is high on the list of this teams success. Maybe only 2nd to Davis' continued development.

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Agree 100%

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

He should be allowed to be aggressive if I was coaching Buddy I would have started him out the gate and told him to shoot any time he's open. His development is high on the list of this teams success. Maybe only 2nd to Davis' continued development.

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Although it is unknowable for us what Gentry has told Buddy, I would agree that this is the kind of criticism that I expected to see more of, and I think has a real foundation. I understand Gentry's argument against it as well. Gentry is here to win games, and having a rookie take his lumps while taking poor shots, learning through mixed failure and success isn't conducive to wins. At the same time, short of a miracle, we aren't making the playoffs and the best thing for the franchise long-term is to develop Buddy int the best player he can be. And I agree that that should be the second goal on the list for this franchise to consider this year a success, just under keeping AD developing and optimistic about his time here.

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

Who are you and why should I trust your promises?

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This made me laugh. I've seen people on here say "I promise you X is going to happen" and although I know they're using it more as a figure of speech than to be taken literally, I always wonder what brand of time machine they use that allows them to promise me future events so I might get one myself.

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Originally Posted by Jabberwalker

Although it is unknowable for us what Gentry has told Buddy, I would agree that this is the kind of criticism that I expected to see more of, and I think has a real foundation. I understand Gentry's argument against it as well. Gentry is here to win games, and having a rookie take his lumps while taking poor shots, learning through mixed failure and success isn't conducive to wins. At the same time, short of a miracle, we aren't making the playoffs and the best thing for the franchise long-term is to develop Buddy int the best player he can be. And I agree that that should be the second goal on the list for this franchise to consider this year a success, just under keeping AD developing and optimistic about his time here.

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This is why I don't understand ownership. You would think the formula to success while varied is pretty basic. Hire your coach for whatever you need him for where the franchise realistically is and you let them do there jobs. Same with management. Demps should not be making decisions based on saving his job and Gentry shouldn't be coaching to save his job. I have no idea why franchises out the most important people in the worst situations. Either give them the vote of confidence or fire them.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

This is why I don't understand ownership. You would think the formula to success while varied is pretty basic. Hire your coach for whatever you need him for where the franchise realistically is and you let them do there jobs. Same with management. Demps should not be making decisions based on saving his job and Gentry shouldn't be coaching to save his job. I have no idea why franchises out the most important people in the worst situations. Either give them the vote of confidence or fire them.

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Or they could do both! Like, tell them make the playoffs or else and when they make the playoffs, fire them anyway.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

This is why I don't understand ownership. You would think the formula to success while varied is pretty basic. Hire your coach for whatever you need him for where the franchise realistically is and you let them do there jobs. Same with management. Demps should not be making decisions based on saving his job and Gentry shouldn't be coaching to save his job. I have no idea why franchises out the most important people in the worst situations. Either give them the vote of confidence or fire them.

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Totally agree. For a long time I was of the opinion that Owners, GMs, and Coaches were all very intelligent and organizations must be ran well because there is an insane amount of money at stake so why would it be left in utterly inept hands? I would argue to fans that they don't know as much as those inside the organization. The longer time goes by, the more I see that it is ran terribly. You can run your organization like a business and instead of prioritizing wins, you can prioritize selling the brand even through losing seasons. Look at the Kings. They just got a new arena and they are the model of ineptitude. But they would make more money if they set themselves up for long-term success, yet can't seem to rationalize the patience it would take to do so. It is one of the reasons I like what the 76ers did, though they have begun rushing the job. It will be interesting to see where they are in 5-8 years.

I think that although the path to sustained success for the Pels isn't clear, it certainly shouldn't be mortgaging the future for a chance to make an 8th seed once or twice in the next three seasons, so Buddy's progression is incredibly important.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

This sort of reminds myself of something I let get lost in all these debates on Buddy. Gentry's system is loved by players in part because it gives them a lot more autonomy then other systems. But with that comes, in a sense, more responsibility and the need for a higher BBIQ in order to operate proficiently in it. I mean in a Gentry system you are trying to get up and down the court in a hurry, make split decisions on reads, passes, and shot selection, all to end a possession relatively early in the shot clock so defenses can't get set. Then held accountable for playing tough transition defense and playing it mostly error free.

I would imagine that the adjustment period for a rookie would be a bit steeper coming into a Gentry system then many others. Not to mention Gentry's somewhat ADD approach to lineup adjustments this season and the undefined roles people are still working out.

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This is exactly why I think DLeague is not what Buddy needs. It would be a setback IMO when I think confidence is the least of his worries. Also if we are talking confidence as this big important thing what happens if he struggles for a little in the DLeague? That would be a huge blow to his confidence. But again IMO confidence is being severely over rated here and is something that comes from that hard work he puts in each day not by making a few baskets in a game. Of course he needs to see the ball go on the hoop but there is a ton of of other things he needs to work on. I would like to see Buddy get a chance to succeed and that IMO isn't necessarily play time it's having Gentry and the rest of the staff have him fully prepared to go out there and play well. Not just throw him in the court for the sake of minutes to say he's getting minutes. Absolutely nothing wrong with saying Buddy isn't fully ready yet as almost no rookies are. We happen to have a very deep guard rotation or he would probably be out there playing having a lot of bad nights with some good and great ones mixed in. Completely agree with what you said.