Monty Williams Defense

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Who the hell said the roster isn't to blame? I'm saying that Dell Demps deserves a reprieve in spite of any mistakes he's made. He was given a mandate to put a playoff team together, even at the expense of using younger players in the draft. It was a gamble. And it's only sort of paying off. With the way things were, only hindsight could've worked out better.

When we traded for Jrue, there is no way he could've known a guy who had only missed like 6 games in four years would turn injury prone. We knew that Tyreke Evans was a one way freight train to the rim. We've gotten nothing from Tyreke Evans tha anyone who knows basketball wouldn't see coming. But the coach has to put players in positions to win.

The GM just has to assemble the team for him.

And Dell Demps has definitively done that given what he had to work with. Has he made errors? I bet he'd be the first to admit it. But we don't put together the season we dod to make the post-season without those players Demps got.

Lauscha's case was already made to me. And I'm part of the fanbase. There is no benchmark. The team isn't moving if we don't keep selling out the SKC.

Only changes that need to be made are in the coaching staff and basic roster moves we probably regardless if we made the playoffs or not.

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Woah now. Tyreke was a huge part of our first half lead.

Monty just doesn't know how to manage a deep roster because in all reality, he hasn't had one until now. He sat Evans way too long in the second half so he went cold, didn't play Cole in the fourth when he was most needed, didn't play Asik when we were getting killed on the boards.

Just poor game management.!

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Originally Posted by Jabberwalker

So Monty, who was screaming "foul" should be held accountable for Tyreke not fouling?
Monty should be held accountable for Gordon shooting an off the dribble three when we were down one?
Monty should just clear out for Davis but he did and it didn't work. So who takes the blame? I don't see people lining up to say they were wrong there.

This is insane because I don't know if he's the right coach. Maybe he's not. He certainly doesn't seem like one of the few coaches in the league that becomes a real game changer, but the accusations that people fling at him are ludicrous. There have been plenty of them that have validity, and I'm probably just wasting my time here, but why is your first thoughts to something going wrong "how can we blame this on Monty"?

We just had three close games so far against a historically good team that most analysts thought we had no chance against. We were a miracle shot away from getting this one. We aren't even supposed to be here. We wer picked to miss the playoffs, we had meltdowns and injuries like crazy all year and we still managed to persevere. Why can't we just be happy that we've come this far and gave the heavy western favorites a run for their money? It's not like we were ever going to win this series anyways. We made them break a sweat. We got under their skin. Our incredibly young team is learning. Next year, we'll probably play even better, and the year after that too, and you know what? We've got AD here for years. So why are we acting like this one game is the end of the world?

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Wrong. Players are robots. You lose.

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Originally Posted by NOLA93

I don't know if I buy that. If true, then why out the players? What is there to gain? He's trying to save himself.

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Ad confirmed it.

I never said Tyreke was a problem.

You don't put a cat in the same room as a baby bird out of it's cage, then get mad at the cat for what happens next.

You can train the cat all you want, but at the end of the day, it's a friggin' cat.

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Originally Posted by DefensiveMind

There is no case that can be made. If they were on the hot seat last week, then tonight was like a kick in the teeth for managment. Poor execution down the stretch in three straight games. This series may not exciting, but it will be cathartic. We now know who needs to go and who can stay. Monty is gone. Its as simple as that.

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The case to be made is setting a moving target. You said you wanted him to make the playoffs or he's gone. He did. case closed.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

Ad confirmed it.

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It should have never come down to that play, which i think is the point many are missing.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

My question is. Why wasn't our best rebounder in Asik in the game at that point?

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Probably because we needed a stop on defense first before a rebound could be made?

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Who the hell said the roster isn't to blame? I'm saying that Dell Demps deserves a reprieve in spite of any mistakes he's made. He was given a mandate to put a playoff team together, even at the expense of using younger players in the draft. It was a gamble. And it's only sort of paying off. With the way things were, only hindsight could've worked out better.

When we traded for Jrue, there is no way he could've known a guy who had only missed like 6 games in four years would turn injury prone. We knew that Tyreke Evans was a one way freight train to the rim. We've gotten nothing from Tyreke Evans tha anyone who knows basketball wouldn't see coming. But the coach has to put players in positions to win.

The GM just has to assemble the team for him.

And Dell Demps has definitively done that given what he had to work with. Has he made errors? I bet he'd be the first to admit it. But we don't put together the season we dod to make the post-season without those players Demps got.

Lauscha's case was already made to me. And I'm part of the fanbase. There is no benchmark. The team isn't moving if we don't keep selling out the SKC.

Only changes that need to be made are in the coaching staff and basic roster moves we probably regardless if we made the playoffs or not.

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Like being up 20 in the 4th? Or being up 2 and getting to the line w 2 FTs to ice the game? Guess thats a horrible position to put the guys in.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

It should have never come down to that play, which i think is the point many are missing.

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You're right, AD should have made both FTs.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

The case to be made is setting a moving target. You said you wanted him to make the playoffs or he's gone. He did. case closed.

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Pretty safe to assume that if it was playoffs or bust and we barely got in only to be embarrassed with an epic collapse on our home court that hes not in the clear. But whatevs... talk to me on Monday.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Who the hell said the roster isn't to blame? I'm saying that Dell Demps deserves a reprieve in spite of any mistakes he's made. He was given a mandate to put a playoff team together, even at the expense of using younger players in the draft. It was a gamble. And it's only sort of paying off. With the way things were, only hindsight could've worked out better.

When we traded for Jrue, there is no way he could've known a guy who had only missed like 6 games in four years would turn injury prone. We knew that Tyreke Evans was a one way freight train to the rim. We've gotten nothing from Tyreke Evans tha anyone who knows basketball wouldn't see coming. But the coach has to put players in positions to win.

The GM just has to assemble the team for him.

And Dell Demps has definitively done that given what he had to work with. Has he made errors? I bet he'd be the first to admit it. But we don't put together the season we dod to make the post-season without those players Demps got.

Lauscha's case was already made to me. And I'm part of the fanbase. There is no benchmark. The team isn't moving if we don't keep selling out the SKC.

Only changes that need to be made are in the coaching staff and basic roster moves we probably regardless if we made the playoffs or not.

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Ive said it before but on a personal level I think Demps wasted a golden opportunity with the 2-3 year window of top tier lottery picks after finding AD to chase players that can be had any year with the room and the assets.

But this is about the organization.

Assuming we get swept, if ownership is being tough, and worried about losing a grip on fan support, that is a bit of a hard sell to blame everything on the coach. If Demps gets a pass for injuries and such, why doesnt Monty?


Not all firings are 100% justified. I have said again and again that I love Demps in-season moves. It is his big moves I am unsettled with. But from an organizational perspective I think it will be a hard sell to justify from a business perspective, to bring them back unless you are so certain they are the right men for the job you will put your own job and the franchises future and bottom line on the line to defend it. Especially in an off-season where some big names are going to be on the coaching market.

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Originally Posted by DefensiveMind

Pretty safe to assume that if it was playoffs or bust and we barely got in only to be embarrassed with an epic collapse on our home court that hes not in the clear. But whatevs... talk to me on Monday.

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I think everyone's mind is made up, and honestly. I'm dead inside after tonight. I cant defend anyone, even Ad tonight. I'm just.. Lost.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

You're right, AD should have made both FTs.

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Well i was actually meaning that Monty actually put in either Ryno or Asik to get the boards to end the game.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

Like being up 20 in the 4th? Or being up 2 and getting to the line w 2 FTs to ice the game? Guess thats a horrible position to put the guys in.

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It goes deeper than just this one moment, really. And it isn't like he doesn't have moments where things are clicking. But I just don't believe he is the guy that takes this team to the next level.

I'm not a stat guy by any stretch. I go purely off feel and what my eyes see.

I see a guy that's on his way out. But I also see a team that's on the verge of becoming great.

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Originally Posted by Jabberwalker

Right, that's not a defense of the coach but a statement to chill your bones and put away the torches and pitchforks.



Sure. But what are those things. I'm not reading anything on here, twitter, or elsewhere that is anything besides "give the ball to AD dumb dumb Monty" or "Monty didn't have his players foul" in terms of criticism for him. What are the real criticisms of him. Again, I'm not even trying to defend the guy. I just don't think much of the accusations are fair.



And I'm not going to.

I guess what's most upsetting to me is that I watched that game and it was so fun for me. The whole game. I was disappointed that we blew that lead, but it was fun. We're on the big stage. TNT is having to talk about us often. ESPN writers are writing daily articles for better or worse about our team. We got a shot a year before I thought we would. I haven't watched us in the playoffs since we were an entirely different team. This is so fun for me. And what's sad is that I'm not seeing it be fun to anyone else. Everyone else seems miserable and disheartened and trying to find scapegoats and reasons why we're losing these games. We're losing these games because we're not the better team yet. It's okay. I can't wait until we force our way into the conversation more.

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I agree that i think it is dumb to want Monty gone based on one game. I think people who want Monty gone right now are mostly the same people as before. At least on here. And their rationale is not built solely on tonight. Instead tonight was just another argument in the stack of evidence against Monty.

Which is also why I tried to shift the question as an organizational one.

As you say, twitter is blowing up with angry fans, mostly furious at coach. Some at players. It will only get worse if we get swept and that final nail in the coffin is at home in the SKC to another sell out crowd.

From an organizational perspective. You just witnessed your fanbase, your revenue stream, your customers, witness a brutal choke job on the biggest NBA stage. One that could have serious revenue implications and crater the fanbase we have slowly been growing.

You can't just cut the scapegoat players in this league because this isn't the NFL. The easiest button to press to calm a fanbase and give them hope is to give them something new and exciting to look forward too. With guys like Coach Thibs out there and Calipari hinting at wanting to come to the big leagues again, to me it will be really hard for Lauscha to look at all that and go "yeah, lets bring Monty back again." To an extent that goes with Demps too. For better or worse.

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Originally Posted by Daneman

My problems with Monty are twofold:

1) He doesn't seem to hold anyone accountable. How many times have we seen these spurts where the offense stagnates, the ball doesn't rotate to AD, and Monty doesn't do anything about it? Lay into these guys. Light a fire under their asses. Be angry!

2) He's a creature of habit. I had to do a double take when I saw him trot out the starting five to start OT- Anderson has been shooting well- on the bench. Your one true PG- on the bench. Asik? Ineffective, but he always starts games, so In he goes. Predictbaly, GS Jumped out to a lead- Monty made adjustments, but they should have been in place at tipoff.

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On the same page with you there.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Ive said it before but on a personal level I think Demps wasted a golden opportunity with the 2-3 year window of top tier lottery picks after finding AD to chase players that can be had any year with the room and the assets.

But this is about the organization.

Assuming we get swept, if ownership is being tough, and worried about losing a grip on fan support, that is a bit of a hard sell to blame everything on the coach. If Demps gets a pass for injuries and such, why doesnt Monty?


Not all firings are 100% justified. I have said again and again that I love Demps in-season moves. It is his big moves I am unsettled with. But from an organizational perspective I think it will be a hard sell to justify from a business perspective, to bring them back unless you are so certain they are the right men for the job you will put your own job and the franchises future and bottom line on the line to defend it. Especially in an off-season where some big names are going to be on the coaching market.

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After watching this team all come together in the playoffs and almost beat the number one seed, it made me realize that this team is formidable. I'd say most realize it is a coaching issue and not a roster issue.

Really all we need to be a championship team IMO is for Whithey to step up and be our offensive big man who can get boards and a three point slinger at the three.

We just need a coach who can balance the strengths and weaknesses like Kerr did tonight.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

I think everyone's mind is made up, and honestly. I'm dead inside after tonight. I cant defend anyone, even Ad tonight. I'm just.. Lost.

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I can totally defend AD. You can have it both ways here. Praise him for what he does despite his age, and give him a pass when things happen that are clearly down to lack of experience due to his age.

The next time Anthony Davis is in a game tying scenario in the playoffs with the ball in his hands, I bet he handles it a LOT better.

And I will hold him to that expectation accordingly. But right now? This is his first try. He's only human.

This forum is hilarious. Team came together has nothing to do with coaching. We're just being held back. Smh. The guys are young and still coming together. Monty will be back.

http://i.imgur.com/IZPcV.gif

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

I can totally defend AD. You can have it both ways here. Praise him for what he does despite his age, and give him a pass when things happen that are clearly down to lack of experience due to his age.

The next time Anthony Davis is in a game tying scenario in the playoffs with the ball in his hands, I bet he handles it a LOT better.

And I will hold him to that expectation accordingly. But right now? This is his first try. He's only human.

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You can defend him all you want. Doesn't mean its warranted. He let the team down in the end. He was great and we were only there bc of him, but he let the team down with the missed FT. I agree he will learn and do better next time though.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

It goes deeper than just this one moment, really. And it isn't like he doesn't have moments where things are clicking. But I just don't believe he is the guy that takes this team to the next level.

I'm not a stat guy by any stretch. I go purely off feel and what my eyes see.

I see a guy that's on his way out. But I also see a team that's on the verge of becoming great.

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He's Doug Collins. He's PJ Carlesimo. He is a starter coach. The Bulls needed Collins before they could become the Bulls. The Blazers and Thunder needed PJ so they could become the Blazers and Thunder. There is nothing wrong with that. It is what it is. I can't expect a Mazda Miada to pass as a luxury sports car, even though its a sports car. If I want to get a luxury sports car I will have to give up a bit more, but the Mazda made me realize if a sports car was right for me.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

It goes deeper than just this one moment, really. And it isn't like he doesn't have moments where things are clicking. But I just don't believe he is the guy that takes this team to the next level.

I'm not a stat guy by any stretch. I go purely off feel and what my eyes see.

I see a guy that's on his way out. But I also see a team that's on the verge of becoming great.

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Cheers Eman. I agree with you on SR and here. I have the same feeling.

This is almost exactly what happened with Golden State. They got beat in the first round of the playoffs and got a new coach.

Just saying. Maybe they did us a favor.

I haven't really been on the "Fire Monty" train, but tonight I'm nearly on board. It's looking like Monty has taken this team as far as he's capable of, and it's time for someone else to step in from this point on. Demote Monty to an assistant if you can, but I don't know if he should be in charge anymore. He's reached a dead end.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

He's Doug Collins. He's PJ Carlesimo. He is a starter coach. The Bulls needed Collins before they could become the Bulls. The Blazers and Thunder needed PJ so they could become the Blazers and Thunder. There is nothing wrong with that. It is what it is. I can't expect a Mazda Miada to pass as a luxury sports car, even though its a sports car. If I want to get a luxury sports car I will have to give up a bit more, but the Mazda made me realize if a sports car was right for me.

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THIS MOAZDA DISAGREES

http://content7.flixster.com/questio...469357_std.jpg

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

I can totally defend AD. You can have it both ways here. Praise him for what he does despite his age, and give him a pass when things happen that are clearly down to lack of experience due to his age.

The next time Anthony Davis is in a game tying scenario in the playoffs with the ball in his hands, I bet he handles it a LOT better.

And I will hold him to that expectation accordingly. But right now? This is his first try. He's only human.

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Meanwhile, this is Monty's second time in the playoffs.