Someone really needs to tell McNamara that Gordon wasn't even in the game at 8:12 left in the 3rd. We had Greivis, Miller, Aminu, Davis, and Lopez out there. The play he is talking about, it's absolutely impossible for a fan to tell which rotation was supposed to be made.Quote:
McNamara247 If you want to see the play that got Monty so upset, it starts at 8:12 left in the third quarter. I have watched it 20 times, Gordon does a lot wrong. He makes the wrong switch, then recognizes it and instead of hustling to fix it, he just points for Aminu to run down. Jazz miss the shot anyway and Gordon just casually walks down to the glass. Jazz get rebound, put it back up for two. A whole new level of laziness
Is Gordon Gone before Next Trade Deadline?
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04-07-2013, 11:36 AMAD23forMVP
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04-07-2013, 12:16 PMjgman
is there anywhere I can watch this play? tried a couple of highlights but never saw it
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04-07-2013, 01:05 PMnolaslim213Since MM wants to play that game, I'll tag along. I went back and watched it for myself too, and here is every play of the 3rd quarter before he gets pulled:Quote:
Originally Posted by AD23forMVP
1) Offense - We win tip off, Vasquez takes a dumb shot, and Gordon spaces the floor but isn't involved in the play.
2) Defense - Gordon with a good rotation, and he even directs traffic by telling Aminu who to pick up. Jefferson scores over Lopez.
3) Offense - Gordon gets the ball on the wing, attacks the rim, gets called for a jump ball. Really, he should have been at the line, but whatever.
4) Defense - Gordon plays help-side defense, but really isn't involved in the play.
5) Offense - Fast break lob to AD was late by Vasquez. Play is a bust. Gordon not involved.
6) Defense - Gordon rotates to the driving player, who kicks to Gordon's guy. Gordon semi-runs out to him at the 3-point line, and Foye drains the 3. Heads up help defense, but lackadaisical recovery to the shooter.
7) Offense - Gordon attacks the rim, kicks to Lopez who dribbles off the defender's foot. Our ball.
8) Offense - Davis scores on Millsap low post. Beautiful play.
9) Defense - Gordon weaves through traffic to track Hayword, and gets him on-ball. ON the PnR, he switches to Millsap, who tries to get position in the post, but Gordon does a great job of muscling him out. Then, when the shot goes up, he boxes out Millsap hard on the boards. Great play.
10) Offense - Gordon jogs around the offensives set, then gets the ball, dribbles into 2 defenders, loses the handle, and doesn't run the fast break on defense.
***Note: After this play, Monty walks down the bench, and tells Miller to check in.
11) Offense - Gordon spaces the floor, not involved in the play.
12) Defense - This is the play MM talks about above. In reality, it looks like it's Aminu's mistake on the rotation, and here's why. I knew I recognized a similar funky rotation earlier in the quarter, so I rewound the tape back to the 11:30 mark of the 3rd quarter (play #2 in this post), and voila.
Play #2 - Gordon is guarding Foye in the corner, and Aminu is on Hayword. Hayword screens Lopez, and Aminu helps on Jefferson (Lopez's man), so Gordon takes Hayword, and Aminu shifts to Foye. The funny thing is that Aminu missed the rotation here too, and Gordon has to call out "rouq" to get his attention as he points to Foye. Aminu then realizes his error and runs to Foye. Lopez then picks up his original man again. I've seen Monty run this rotation before, and it's complicated, which is probably why Aminu is having trouble with it (an MM as well), but it makes sense. Aminu helps on Lopez, then runs cross-court to the 3-point shooter. We use this rotation ALL THE TIME, but it's a little different when the Center is driving compared to double teaming the post like we normally do. Anyway, Gordon isn't at fault here, that much is obvious. Sorry MM, but you are wrong here, and your bias against Gordon is really effecting the quality of your work.
Play #12 - Same exact set as #2, Gordon on Foye in the corner, and Aminu is on Hayword. Hayword picks Lopez, and Aminu helps on Jefferson (Lopez's man), so Gordon takes Hayword, but Aminu returns to Hayword instead of Foye. Foye recognizes this, and he cuts from the 3 to the lane where he is wide open for an easy layup.
By the way, it wasn't this play that got Gordon pulled, like MM thinks, rather, it was play #10. -
04-07-2013, 01:09 PMInner_GI
Thank you for that write up. I just deleted the game from my DVR this morning. Wish I hadn't because I'd like to watch the 3rd quarter now.
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04-07-2013, 01:13 PMnolaslim213No problem man. I'm glad I didn't delete it either (like I normally do haha). If you listen in at 11:30-11:28, it's clear as day that the mistake is on Aminu, and Gordon even calls his name to get his attention. Aminu realizes the mistake, and hustles to his man. Same exact play a few minutes later (8:51), only Gordon doesn't call out Aminu's name, so Aminu misses the rotation. Gordon did his job here. Play #10 is the reason he got pulled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner_GI
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04-07-2013, 01:15 PMAD23forMVP
I think at the very least you can't blame Gordon without also blaming Aminu. Gordon made a rotation, whether that rotation was right or wrong is up for debate. But Aminu just kind of stood in the middle of the lane lost.
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04-07-2013, 01:22 PMnolaslim213I can agree with this because we really don't know for sure what was supposed to happen. But it's really cool to have the exact same play that was played correctly, and then the exact same play that was played incorrectly. Aminu is the common denominator. Then, when you apply the principles of Monty's defense, which is double in the post, next man rotates to the helper's man, original helper then takes the shooter in the corner 3, and it's really easy to see what should have been done theoretically. But yes, we can't be 100% positive. I'm 99% sure though ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by AD23forMVP
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04-07-2013, 03:35 PMUNO Gracias
So Monty pulled Gordon due to no fault of Gordon's doing?
That only heaps more ammo onto the "Gordon is gone before the trade deadline." If the coach is pulling him because of the mistakes of others, the coach probably has more issues with the guy. -
04-07-2013, 04:02 PMAD23forMVPNo. We are simply saying Gordon was not benched because of a missed rotation like McNamara is saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by UNO Gracias
Like slim said, Monty already had Miller at the table well before that play happened. -
04-07-2013, 04:08 PMUNO Gracias
No, I get that. I am pointing out that there must be something more going on.
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04-07-2013, 06:29 PMkclaboy504There is nothing more going on dude. He got pulled cause of his decision with the ball then not running the break on defense as a result of his play with the ball. That's it nothing more nothing less dam. Acting like coach n players never have run ins and butt heads. Happens all the time. No conspiracy here sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by UNO Gracias
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04-07-2013, 06:32 PMInner_GI
Yea. Monty hates wimps, and Gordon is a wimp. Simple.
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04-07-2013, 06:34 PMnolaslim213
I'm going to operate under the assumption that Gordon is just trying to get out of this season healthy. As such, he may not be giving 100% like Monty wants, so Monty is riding him to set an example that even our best player can't slack off because it sets a bad precedent and culture for the team. That said, I don't think it's something we have to worry about moving forward. Gordon has always been a guy who gives his all to the game. Monty knows this, and it's one of the reasons why we targeted Gordon during the CP deal. Monty was ecstatic when we got him because Gordon is an elite scorer, and a real good defender, and Monty loves his 2-way ball players. When we drafted Davis, Monty and Dell were both saying this is Gordon's team, because as of right now, he is our best player. He may not be playing like it, and Davis will almost certainly surpass him in the future, but make no mistake that Gordon is an elite player. We'll always have to worry about his health, but it is what it is.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by kclaboy504
Actually, Gordon is a bulldog, and Monty has said this himself. Don't confuse injury prone with wimp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner_GI
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04-07-2013, 06:51 PMJJackisangry
I think its a tough love moment from Monty. As the star player you need to set an example for the other guys. I know Gordon's being cautious, but he has to hustle and give what he can. From what i heard Monty went a little overboard, but losing is frustrating especially with someone as driven as Monty. I can only hope Gordon takes this positively; like i said its a wakeup call.
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04-07-2013, 07:42 PMda ThRONe
If Gordon needs to dog it or play safe he need not play at all. If he's not 100% comfortable about where he is physically he shouldn't be on the court.
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04-07-2013, 07:45 PMInner_GISee belowQuote:
Originally Posted by nolaslim213
Was about to type this myself. If you have to play soft to be healthy, you shouldn't be on the court. Gordon may "look" like a bulldog, but he's a whiner and can't stay healthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by da ThRONe
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04-08-2013, 07:21 AMAll Metro
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...is-head-coach/
This isnt good at allQuote:
Hornets coach Monty Williams and point guard Eric Gordon got into a screaming match during a timeout with 8:37 left in the third quarter. Millsap had just scored on a putback to put Utah ahead 55-47 and New Orleans called a timeout. Williams was visibly agitated, yelling in Gordon’s direction. He had to be held back by assistant coach Randy Ayers after Gordon hollered back at him, and when the team went to the sidelines, Williams continued screaming at Gordon.