that po boy looking real delicious right about nowQuote:
Originally Posted by Beelos
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that po boy looking real delicious right about nowQuote:
Originally Posted by Beelos
I have to stop myself from trying to bite my computer screen every time he posts.
seriously?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee-Fense
we haven't seen Trevor Ariza and Lebron James in the same system fwiw
and who cares about skill vs athleticism, regarding if a player is better than another.
I don't care about the systems, he brought it up, not me.Quote:
Originally Posted by nrockwell
You guys were saying Tyson had the better skillset, not was the better player. There's a difference.
Okafor's a big reason why the defense is best in the West and in top 4 in the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by nrockwell
He does have his advantages over Chandler.
Better footwork in the post.
Better hands.
Better shot blocker
Better rebounder
More durable
Much stronger
Stop fooling yourself!
Look, Tyson was known primarily as a rebounder. OKAFOR IS BETTER.
Tyson is sometimes mentioned as a shot blocker... but he isn't that great at it. West is better, and OKAFOR IS BETTER.
Offense? (heh) OKAFOR IS BETTER.
Tyson was better at throwing down alley-oops, yes. So everybody has their one thing.
In conclusion, I still agree with me, that OKAFOR IS BETTER.
We will have to agree to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by nrockwell
Chandler has zero post moves. He is great when allowed to roam, but he is awful man on man. Chandler has no back to the basket moves. I guess they just have different skill sets, but I stand by comment ... Okafor's skills are better suited to the playoffs.
This is the least-informed statement I have ever heard on this forum. We saw TC beating his head against his own VERY LOW offensive wall for 2 years or so. He ain't got it. We felt thrilled when he scored double digits for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by nrockwell
Mek has averaged a double-double his entire career.
Your argument is invalid.
Chandler has one season where he has averaged a double double. Okafor has averaged a double double in all but one season. I dont see how this is even an argument. Plus okafor averages more nlocks per game.
Chandler has a higher TS%, and has an unbelievable career high of 72.1% this year vs Okafor's 59.2%. However Okafor has slightly higher usage tho. Career Chandler's TS% is 59.4 vs Oak's 53.8.
Both their TRB% is just about equal for their careers and equal this year. I was wrong when saying Okafor is a better rebounder, as they are quite close, with probably the edge going to TC as a higher % of his rebounds are offensive.
Chandler does turn the ball over more per touch than Okafor for his career, but this year they are dead even in TOV%.
Okafor does block more shots than Chandler, but block shots are not a particularly good indicator of defensive ability. I really don't know of any good defensive metric to compare the two as counterpoint data doesn't show help defense and the Mavs have run so much zone this year that counterpoint stats are probably useless for Chandler.
APM (adjusted plus minus) data that I posted previously (http://pelicansreport.com/HRForums/s...ad.php?t=62850) over the last 5 years showed that Chandler was a positive player on offense, whereas Okafor was not @ -1.3 pp100, and both were positives on defense with Chandler rating higher than Okafor's +1.1 . The links I posted are dead, so I am recalling Chandler's from memory, fwiw.
Stats shmats. Anyone can pad their stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by nrockwell
Watch both of them play, and then make up your mind. Mek is hands down a better in most phases of the game. TC can slam down an oop with the best of them, but that is about all he has on Mek. Regardless, Mek can stay healthy. What good is TC while he is on the bench?
The Mavs do run a lot of zone, but that should only help TC since he thrives in systems in which he is allowed to roam rather than face up man to man. That was my point, like Camby he really is most effective when able to swoop in from the outside to block a shot. TC is not going to prevent a good C from getting his shot in the post, it's probably the most frustrating part of TC's skill set.Quote:
Originally Posted by nrockwell
I don't like using stats for debates like this, stats don't tell the entire story. We are comparing two starting level Cs in the NBA with two very different styles of play. I guess the real question would be ... which player better fits our current system?
I really do not see a clear answer to that question since both guys have their strengths and weaknesses. So I see this coming down to personal choice.
Neither guy is an all world player. Neither guy is going to force another franchise to unload talent to acquire them. But both are starter level in the NBA.
Chandler played under Larry Brown's system which Okafor also played under. I wasn't able to watch many games of Chandler in Charlotte, though I had seen a good amount of Oak there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee-Fense
Chandler was injured a decent amount and only played 22.8 MPG, but some interesting things to see were that his TO rate sky rocketed in his games there last year. I don't remember if he was ever fully healthy at any point in time there.
His FG% was down in comparison to his best years in New Orleans also. Maybe asking some Charlotte fans would help, but a lot of them did seem to like Chandler. They were less graceful to Oak, but that is also because they had been exposed to his short comings for a long time.
In terms of who has a more complete game, it depends on how one is defining that. Both players can give double digit points, double digit rebounds and be a defensive presence. They have their advantages and disadvantages, but in general they can both accomplish similar things, just in different ways.
Okafor is "better" at creating his own offense in terms of posting up, but both guys are best when they aren't put in the role of creating offense, so it's not extremely relevant.
While Chandler has been a more efficient scorer over his career, he's also averaged 10.6 pts / 36 in comparison to Okafor's 14.3 pts / 36. Chandler's high is 12.0 pts / 36 while Okafor's low is 12.2 pts / 36 this season.
It might not be very fair to compare their career TS%. Comparing Chandler in New Orleans to Okafor in New Orleans is probably a better comparison, and Chandler still wins there. One great advantage Chandler also has now is that he's really improved his FT shooting over the past two seasons.