2024 Offseason Thread

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Originally Posted by Nichols

What is that relationship dynamic like? Do they exert pressure on him, or does he have carte blanche to do as he pleases? Some front offices are a bit more hands on than others.

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Griff's been fairly vocal about becoming a more dynamic offensive team, and has mentioned more shooting in each of the past few off-seasons, and clearly has drafted shooters both this year and last with Hawkins, as well as picking up Matt Ryan to add even more shooting. Green clearly does not really feel the heat or pressure to follow through on those acquisitions and desires, though.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

What is that relationship dynamic like? Do they exert pressure on him, or does he have carte blanche to do as he pleases? Some front offices are a bit more hands on than others.

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Willie seems to have a free ride. No pressure or input from the organization whatsoever from what I can tell. Willie is a young coach so maybe they are letting him learn on the fly, but I question the dynamic between the GM and Willie

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Griff's been fairly vocal about becoming a more dynamic offensive team, and has mentioned more shooting in each of the past few off-seasons, and clearly has drafted shooters both this year and last with Hawkins, as well as picking up Matt Ryan to add even more shooting. Green clearly does not really feel the heat or pressure to follow through on those acquisitions and desires, though.

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Exactly

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Originally Posted by Nichols

What is that relationship dynamic like? Do they exert pressure on him, or does he have carte blanche to do as he pleases? Some front offices are a bit more hands on than others.

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https://external-content.duckduckgo....aa6&ipo=images

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

By EPM, Trae Young was +2.6 and the 47th best player in the NBA this year. Higher than any Pelican this season. Frankly, I think that's underrating him even with this past year being a slightly down year on his production.

By the same metric, Dejounte was a +1.7, 103rd in the NBA, and was himself a solid -1.0 D-EPM. Negative defender by that metric (also a negative defender by BPM this year).

Comparatively, Trae Young averaged 26pts and 10asts per game this year for the third consecutive season and was top three in the league in potential assists (18 per game). His defense is not good either, but frankly, I think we have enough defensive talent and a long enough track record of achieving good defensive results that we can insulate someone who has that much offensive juice.

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MVP with the data.. Thanks for making the picture clearer. I would have valued DJM higher prior to our exchange. I overvalued DJM's defense. I also remember Trae being abused on defense in a few playoff games I've seen him in.

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

https://external-content.duckduckgo....aa6&ipo=images

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I really didn't know boss. It was a genuine question.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

MVP with the data.. Thanks for making the picture clearer. I would have valued DJM higher prior to our exchange. I overvalued DJM's defense. I also remember Trae being abused on defense in a few playoff games I've seen him in.

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Oh yeah Trae is a bad defender, don't get me wrong. He's got a decent eye for steals but other than that he's just so small that even when he is trying he isn't able to do much against most people. I'm just saying that DJM is a pretty rough defender at this point too, and the offensive difference is far wider.

My point is just that I think we have enough defensive upside on the roster overall to accommodate a couple of poor defenders as long as though poor defenders are still providing value elsewhere (which Trae does).

Plus, a good offense helps your defense improve because you end up defending in transition far less often, which is always nice.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

Willie seems to have a free ride. No pressure or input from the organization whatsoever from what I can tell. Willie is a young coach so maybe they are letting him learn on the fly, but I question the dynamic between the GM and Willie

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I see, thanks. If they aren't all that competent it's probably for the best that they left him alone.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Denver is trading Reggie Jackson to Charlotte for three unprotected second-round picks, source tells ESPN.

? Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) June 27, 2024

What is Denver doing, man?

They're still going to be a playoff lock just off Jamal, Jokic, and MPJ, but they're letting KCP go, they're trading away Reggie Jackson, just shedding talent.

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Wow, apparently Denver are sending the three 2nd rounders, not getting them back. Purely a cash move.

Jesus.

I like the idea behind the pick. Get more cheap shooters in. He has size and competes on the defensive end. I just don’t see Willie giving him the light of day and we need an instant impact. I will give Willie the benefit of a doubt here that he will give the guy a fair shake. Still need a legit floor general

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Certain people will be negative 100% of the time no matter what.

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No its cool. Let their be suspense . Just a very long drumroll. This better be good.

The Los Angeles Lakers are selecting Bronny James with the No. 55 pick in the 2024 NBA draft, sources say. LeBron and Bronny James to become the first ever father-son duo to be in the NBA at the same time. pic.twitter.com/CyewBHNswz

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) June 27, 2024

Surprising nobody.

I feel bad for Bronny. I do think he has the makings of an NBA roleplayer but I don't think there's any of the star potential that will justify the ridiculous microscope he's going to be under.

LeBron: “So why’d you miss the open shot in the corner last night” pic.twitter.com/s8dt83HaKZ

— NBA Memes (@NBAMemes) June 27, 2024

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Oh yeah Trae is a bad defender, don't get me wrong. He's got a decent eye for steals but other than that he's just so small that even when he is trying he isn't able to do much against most people. I'm just saying that DJM is a pretty rough defender at this point too, and the offensive difference is far wider.

My point is just that I think we have enough defensive upside on the roster overall to accommodate a couple of poor defenders as long as though poor defenders are still providing value elsewhere (which Trae does).

Plus, a good offense helps your defense improve because you end up defending in transition far less often, which is always nice.

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Gotcha, possibly losing Herb could change the calculous on how well we could insulate him. That said I totally get what you're saying and agree. I'm even slightly anxious now to see how Trae would look with the Pels.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Gotcha, possibly losing Herb could change the calculous on how well we could insulate him. That said I totally get what you're saying and agree. I'm even slightly anxious now to see how Trae would look with the Pels.

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My optimism there comes from the fact that over the last two years we've actually fared okay defensively in games where Herb was absent, including against some tough competition (Denver, Philly, etc). The scheme doesn't immediately collapse without him.

Obviously he is the best single defender on the team, so I'm not devaluing him. He's fantastic. I just don't think losing him would mean we would instantly become a bad defensive team.

Now, if we lost him and Naji, and got back Trae, and lost Dyson somehow, and didn't get a decent C this offseason? Yeah that would get ugly. So it all depends on what other moves we have in the chamber.

Antonio Reeves made 52/98 floaters last season for Kentucky. Incredible touch. Fun pick for the Pelicans pic.twitter.com/NOaZJH8SLa

— Kevin O'Connor (@KevinOConnorNBA) June 27, 2024

So you're saying he's primarily a shooter who has nevertheless developed a strong floater game that he uses to attack close-outs?

This is just E'twaun Moore.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Griff's been fairly vocal about becoming a more dynamic offensive team, and has mentioned more shooting in each of the past few off-seasons, and clearly has drafted shooters both this year and last with Hawkins, as well as picking up Matt Ryan to add even more shooting. Green clearly does not really feel the heat or pressure to follow through on those acquisitions and desires, though.

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So theoretically even with the right pieces collectively, we may still be at a deficit competitively because of Green.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

So theoretically even with the right pieces collectively, we may still be at a deficit competitively because of Green.

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Potentially, though I think that would be a fairly extreme case.

Green picks favourites and once he likes you it doesn't really matter how poorly you play, you will get minutes. Nance is the perfect example of that. He's been a hit or miss player, unfortunately with his misses lasting a lot longer than his hits, but Green loves him so whenever he's healthy, he plays. Green will close games with him over JV regardless of the match-up. It's rough.

And generally speaking, I get the vibe that he likes players who remind him of himself when he played. Defense first, gritty, ''get after it'' types, who may or may not have offensive utility.

There are pros to that, for sure. We've put out an elite defense the last three years regardless of who has been on the team. We've had BI, Zion, and CJ all play bad defense at times across those three years, and the overall team defense has been solid anyway. We've started Jonas, who is not an elite defender, for multiple seasons and still put out good defenses. If Green can do anything, it's get a team to buy in defensively and pull their weight as a unit.

But if all you've got is offense and you can't provide the defense, you are in the doghouse instantly.

I guess a simple way of putting it is this:

If you have defense, but no offense, he will give you the benefit of the doubt and hope your offense comes along, even if it is having actively negative consequences.
If you have offense but no defense, he will bench you until he feels you're ready defensively, and then as soon as you make a mistake, you get benched again. No leeway.

It's rough, but it's what he does. Hopefully he changes his mind as he continues to get more experience as a head coach.

Edit: it's also why some people, including me, have started arguing that you just need to take his toys away. If he'll put out a decent enough defense regardless of who you give him, give him offensive players and make him figure it out.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Green clearly does not really feel the heat or pressure to follow through on those acquisitions and desires, though.

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It’s all about development. Look at Hawk and Trey’s rookie season. Very similar with hawk actually getting a few more mins. I’d expect to see a huge uptick in Hawk’s minutes this year. You can’t just give every rookie you draft 30mpg immediately.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

It’s all about development. Look at Hawk and Trey’s rookie season. Very similar with hawk actually getting a few more mins. I’d expect to see a huge uptick in Hawk’s minutes this year. You can’t just give every rookie you draft 30mpg immediately.

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I actually think Green is solid at developing players. I’m just not quite sure I agree with the way he handles his lineups which happens to rear it’s ugly head in our large deficits. He was definitely averse at times to playing Hawkins and Jonas at times we really needed to use them. It’s not just rookies in fairness.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Potentially, though I think that would be a fairly extreme case.

Edit: it's also why some people, including me, have started arguing that you just need to take his toys away. If he'll put out a decent enough defense regardless of who you give him, give him offensive players and make him figure it out.

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That's generally the prescription if you're not going to apply overt verbal pressure. We'll see how it plays out.

I do hope this team makes a significant move. I honestly think it's capable of taking 90% of the teams we just witnessed in the playoffs. If healthy, with a PG.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

It’s all about development. Look at Hawk and Trey’s rookie season. Very similar with hawk actually getting a few more mins. I’d expect to see a huge uptick in Hawk’s minutes this year. You can’t just give every rookie you draft 30mpg immediately.

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Completely disagree, and nobody says you ''give every rookie you draft 30mpg''. That's an absurd mischaracterisation of the critique.

Green routinely has put out lineups containing no primary ballhandler and, in many cases, 4 non-shooters at a time in his career as Pelicans coach. That improved somewhat this year but only because Naji and Herb both suddenly became good shooters, not because Green actually did anything differently with his rotations or preferences.

If you want Green to play shooters you have to hope that either someone gets injured and he's forced into giving them minutes and they stick, or that defenders figure out how to shoot on their own. We've been quite lucky that Herb and Naji have done that, but Naji's about to walk and we just lost Vinson so good luck having it happen again. It was unlikely enough the first time.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

So you're saying he's primarily a shooter who has nevertheless developed a strong floater game that he uses to attack close-outs?

This is just E'twaun Moore.

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Et'wuan at 47 is a win. it's a single, but cost controlled older player is a better 2nd round bet than project imo. Would have preferred McCullar though.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

Et'wuan at 47 is a win. it's a single, but cost controlled older player is a better 2nd round bet than project imo. Would have preferred McCullar though.

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In fairness he's taller than E'twaun was by a few inches and seems to have a good bit more self-creation, so if it pays off he could be better than E'twaun but yeah, I agree. E'twaun was a good NBA player. Not a difference maker but he stuck around and provided good minutes for years. Nothing wrong with that at 47.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Completely disagree, and nobody says you ''give every rookie you draft 30mpg''. That's an absurd mischaracterisation of the critique.

Green routinely has put out lineups containing no primary ballhandler and, in many cases, 4 non-shooters at a time in his career as Pelicans coach. That improved somewhat this year but only because Naji and Herb both suddenly became good shooters, not because Green actually did anything differently with his rotations or preferences.

If you want Green to play shooters you have to hope that either someone gets injured and he's forced into giving them minutes and they stick, or that defenders figure out how to shoot on their own. We've been quite lucky that Herb and Naji have done that, but Naji's about to walk and we just lost Vinson so good luck having it happen again. It was unlikely enough the first time.

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The one thing about Willie that is irrefutable, it’s that his lineups were terrible. He has to set aside his pride and make things work.