2022-23 Offseason Thread

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Ones who cannot shoot a lick are. He does not have much of a game and will find out he cannot regularly get to the basket in the NBA like he did against the competition in college.

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He has outlier athletic ability. I'm not sure how you can just make that assumption. Crazy to me that people are getting this upset over a guy who played 8 total preseason minutes. Clearly he did not show enough in camp. It is what it is

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Is he a bad teammate? I mean I'm sure he proselytizes lot but I would put the number of agnostics or atheists on most NBA teams as quite low. Wouldn't go out drinking or partying either. But I wouldn't either if I were an NBA player.

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He invited his entire team to go watch him preach and literally none of them attended. That alone should tell you something.

Besides, my reasons for not wanting to support him or watch him aren't solely restricted to ''he would be bad for the locker room'', though I do also believe that. He's just someone I consider a fundamentally bad person, like, on principle. Do not want to have a team filled with likable characters that I'm happy to root for unbalanced by someone who I think is genuinely horrible. And that's before we even talk about things like him not playing a single NBA game in over two years.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

He has outlier athletic ability. I'm not sure how you can just make that assumption. Crazy to me that people are getting this upset over a guy who played 8 total preseason minutes. Clearly he did not show enough in camp. It is what it is

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He couldn't do it in SL against bad players. He looked lost. Butler may never develop, but I never understood signing Seabron so quickly.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

He invited his entire team to go watch him preach and literally none of them attended. That alone should tell you something.

Besides, my reasons for not wanting to support him or watch him aren't solely restricted to ''he would be bad for the locker room'', though I do also believe that. He's just someone I consider a fundamentally bad person, like, on principle. Do not want to have a team filled with likable characters that I'm happy to root for unbalanced by someone who I think is genuinely horrible. And that's before we even talk about things like him not playing a single NBA game in over two years.

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This. Cant support someone like him.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

He couldn't do it in SL against bad players. He looked lost. Butler may never develop, but I never understood signing Seabron so quickly.

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And yet he did it, albeit in limited minutes, against NBA competition in the preseason. They signed him so quickly because he's a 6'7 combo guard with elite quickness and finishing ability. He's still very raw and one handed, but you have to at least get that guy in the building to see what he is. And I can tell you based on conversations that I've had, they were ecstatic to get him on a two way following the draft.

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

This. Cant support someone like him.

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After scouring his his twitter feed, it's more concerning than I first though

Good gracious .. the bar for what makes a “bad human being” is so incredibly low nowadays.

To me, that’s someone who abuses or rapes or robs from old ladies, etc. A guy who has a difference of opinion from the mainstream is a bad human being nowadays? I hope you guys never look to deeply into the past behaviors and beliefs of your idols - you are gonna hate what you find. On every single one of them. All “bad human beings” by some 2022 criteria

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

And yet he did it, albeit in limited minutes, against NBA competition in the preseason. They signed him so quickly because he's a 6'7 combo guard with elite quickness and finishing ability. He's still very raw and one handed, but you have to at least get that guy in the building to see what he is. And I can tell you based on conversations that I've had, they were ecstatic to get him on a two way following the draft.

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Well they know a lot more than me, so hopefully they are right. I have not been impressed watching him and watching some of the videos of his college play. However, if they are right and he develops well, I will be happy.

Time to close this thread! The Season is upon us tonight!!!!

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Good gracious .. the bar for what makes a “bad human being” is so incredibly low nowadays.

To me, that’s someone who abuses or rapes or robs from old ladies, etc. A guy who has a difference of opinion from the mainstream is a bad human being nowadays? I hope you guys never look to deeply into the past behaviors and beliefs of your idols - you are gonna hate what you find. On every single one of them. All “bad human beings” by some 2022 criteria

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Hey man we can all have different opinions. Just can't rock this cat. Don't mean I want him to die or get cancelled. Everyone will respond to his character differently, but who I am and where I from, I can't support people like him.

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Originally Posted by Upper Decker

Time to close this thread! The Season is upon us tonight!!!!

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Lol fair. Cant wait for tomorrow!

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

After scouring his his twitter feed, it's more concerning than I first though

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Lol. Yeah I tried with him too years back, but yeah that shipped has sailed. YEET.

Is Kira Lewis still part of the future for this team?

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Originally Posted by OnesieBells

Is Kira Lewis still part of the future for this team?

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I was considering that internally the other day. The FO is still super excited about him, and apparently he looks tremendous in his workouts so far. The question is, how does he get minutes on this team moving forward? I think we can all agree that Dyson is a higher ceiling player, so a trade should prioritize opening minutes for Dyson, not Kira.

The Jose-Kira backcourt has similar deficiencies to Jose-DG, except DG is notably better as a shooter. Kira does have those outlier traits you look for, however, and the Pels believe in Kira's future as a jump shooter. Still, can you wait for that shot to come around at this point?

Kira will start the year in Birmingham more than likely, so he will have the ability to prove his worth either for this organization or another. What he needs to show is a jump shot and improved play making chops. If he can do that, he's a viable NBA player. He is long enough to be a disruptive defender, even with his slight frame; and his transition offense should be elite. He has to show something in the halfcourt, though.

I think what you will see this season is more of a white shirt first half for Kira where he gets a ton of Squadron run, and then he will be given a few opportunities to climb the rotation after the deadline. I do think there's a chance that Kira could steal some minutes from Jose on the off chance that Jose slumps as a sophomore. It's a really difficult situation for Kira, and I think the biggest question mark on the current roster. He might be a second draft candidate just because the Pels crushed the 2021 and 2022 drafts.

Thinking solely of long term team success, you want Kira to figure it out even if it is at the expense of Jose, which may be an unpopular opinion among the majority of Pels fans

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

Hey man we can all have different opinions. Just can't rock this cat. Don't mean I want him to die or get cancelled. Everyone will respond to his character differently, but who I am and where I from, I can't support people like him.

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Fine with that. It was whoever said he was a "bad human being" that just blew my mind. But its where we are in 2022. I see it on both sides of the aisle

I was really high on Jonathan Isaac a few years ago, but I have to agree that he'd be a huge risk in terms of locker room harmony. He's a heavy-handed bible thumper, anti-vaccine, pro conspiracy theory guy who lets himself be used to speak at right wing conservative conferences, alongside the likes of Michael Flynn and Mike Lindell, and he seems pretty unpopular with teammates. Unfortunate, because if he finally got healthy, he'd have the potential to be a great defender.

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Originally Posted by Eyquem

I was really high on Jonathan Isaac a few years ago, but I have to agree that he'd be a huge risk in terms of locker room harmony. He's a heavy-handed bible thumper, anti-vaccine, pro conspiracy theory guy who lets himself be used to speak at right wing conservative conferences, alongside the likes of Michael Flynn and Mike Lindell, and he seems pretty unpopular with teammates. Unfortunate, because if he finally got healthy, he'd have the potential to be a great defender.

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If you support the January 6 failed overthrowing of the US government, you're a bad human being. This is not a simple difference of opinion.

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Originally Posted by Eyquem

I was really high on Jonathan Isaac a few years ago, but I have to agree that he'd be a huge risk in terms of locker room harmony. He's a heavy-handed bible thumper, anti-vaccine, pro conspiracy theory guy who lets himself be used to speak at right wing conservative conferences, alongside the likes of Michael Flynn and Mike Lindell, and he seems pretty unpopular with teammates. Unfortunate, because if he finally got healthy, he'd have the potential to be a great defender.

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This is the stuff that is so dangerous. You throw these people into general categories and then all 75 million of them are the same. All "bad human beings"

If you actually ever listened to Issac, he said he fully supports others getting vaccines and respects that his god made them, but they arent for him. That simple. Not trying to force his way on anyone. Just doesnt believe in getting them. Is he misinformed? Maybe. A little dumb -- most people are. But he isnt trying to force anything down peoples throats (like another group of self righteous people). He just has his beliefs.

But people like that get lumped into this one big evil hate group because they might have a belief similar in one area to a Trump-ite lunatic. Its like saying, "Oh, you believein Jesus Christ? Well so did people in this one group who killed over 100 million. You are evil like them"

Just such small, small thinking. But yeah, lets get back to the season because nothing is going to convince the self righteous to be anything other than that

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

This. Cant support someone like him.

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All Isaac does is express opinions some intolerant people can't handle. This sort of thing happens every day....all day....in every walk of life. But, my God, in your case, the term snowflake is applicable. Your prejudice (not racial) is apparent and you are too blind to see it.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

This is the stuff that is so dangerous. You throw these people into general categories and then all 75 million of them are the same. All "bad human beings"

If you actually ever listened to Issac, he said he fully supports others getting vaccines and respects that his god made them, but they arent for him. That simple. Not trying to force his way on anyone. Just doesnt believe in getting them. Is he misinformed? Maybe. A little dumb -- most people are. But he isnt trying to force anything down peoples throats (like another group of self righteous people). He just has his beliefs.

But people like that get lumped into this one big evil hate group because they might have a belief similar in one area to a Trump-ite lunatic. Its like saying, "Oh, you believein Jesus Christ? Well so did people in this one group who killed over 100 million. You are evil like them"

Just such small, small thinking. But yeah, lets get back to the season because nothing is going to convince the self righteous to be anything other than that

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I didn't call him "evil" and never used the term "bad human being." You're putting other people's words in my mouth.
I said he would very potentially be tough for locker room harmony, and I think evidence supports that. His teammates nicknamed him "Baby Jesus," and when he preached at a local church and invited his teammates to be in the audience, not a single one attended... I've personally attended sermons by friends even though I'm not religious. I did it because they were interesting well intentioned people. I'm not saying the guy should be crucified-- just sharing an opinion that he might not be the best personality for a harmonious locker room.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

All Isaac does is express opinions some intolerant people can't handle. This sort of thing happens every day....all day....in every walk of life. But, my God, in your case, the term snowflake is applicable. Your prejudice (not racial) is apparent and you are too blind to see it.

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JI profits off of standing for the anthem so there's more to it than just expressing opinions

He has to continue to speak on these things because if he doesn’t he will get branded by the liberals as the most evil version of what they think he stands for. It’s a no win

It’s two separate things - yes I agree he could be an unnecessary distraction and likely not worth it on the court

But man, libs just love branding people as bad. It’s like their favorite thing to do - judge others. So embarrassed I used to be one

Getting back to basketball, a quick question. Folks back home wanna know what Herb will be making when the Pels make their next offer.. I'm fairly useless, in that area...so somebody give a ballpark figure. Let's assume Herb ends this season with maybe 12/14 pts per game...36% from 3...2nd team All-Defense...PLUS apparently a never before seen, to the folks back home anyway...effective 15' pull up jumper.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

It’s two separate things - yes I agree he could be an unnecessary distraction and likely not worth it on the court

But man, libs just love branding people as bad. It’s like their favorite thing to do - judge others. So embarrassed I used to be one

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Again, you yourself are lumping people together that are saying very different shades of things. If Isaac was sitting down for an adult conversation with George Will or Mitt Romney, I'd happily watch it. But appearing at a Conference where people are opining that Bill Gates is injecting people with microchips via the covid vaccine, and not being challenged on it, is a very different scenario. If anything, you're painting people with the same broad un-nuanced brush that you're accusing others of using: "libs love judging people." That itself is a judgement!

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Originally Posted by The Dud

Getting back to basketball, a quick question. Folks back home wanna know what Herb will be making when the Pels make their next offer.. I'm fairly useless, in that area...so somebody give a ballpark figure. Let's assume Herb ends this season with maybe 12/14 pts per game...36% from 3...2nd team All-Defense...PLUS apparently a never before seen, to the folks back home anyway...effective 15' pull up jumper.

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His high end is probably right around 4/100. Low end maybe 5/90 or so

Mac do you still have the same interest in Malik Beasley? Because I would much rather give Dyson and Kira all the chances to take that spot, and then, if necessary, make a move at the deadline. Was that just an offseason interest?

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Mac do you still have the same interest in Malik Beasley? Because I would much rather give Dyson and Kira all the chances to take that spot, and then, if necessary, make a move at the deadline. Was that just an offseason interest?

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I'm guessing Mac had to just leave the premises...or else get neck deep into that discussion. Just the way he's wired...and there's nothing wrong with that. Anyway...thanks for the opinion on Herb.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

His high end is probably right around 4/100. Low end maybe 5/90 or so

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I think we're really starting to get to that point in NBA history where salaries are so high that it's impossible to talk about the per year earnings without sounding hyperbolic. Instead we're going to have to talk about percentages of the cap.

Personally, if Jordan Poole is being paid $35m per year on his new deal, there's no universe where Herb is worth less than $25m a year, especially if we're talking about it with the assumption that he's 36% from 3 and can self create in the midrange reliably.

That said, 2nd team all-D? The Dud imagine he's going to get worse defensively?

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Good gracious .. the bar for what makes a ?bad human being? is so incredibly low nowadays.

To me, that?s someone who abuses or rapes or robs from old ladies, etc. A guy who has a difference of opinion from the mainstream is a bad human being nowadays? I hope you guys never look to deeply into the past behaviors and beliefs of your idols - you are gonna hate what you find. On every single one of them. All ?bad human beings? by some 2022 criteria

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This!
Dae called him a fundamentally bad person for being a Christian and having a different opinion basically. Guess tolerance for other?s beliefs are not in yours and have no problem throwing that first stone. SMH!

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I think we're really starting to get to that point in NBA history where salaries are so high that it's impossible to talk about the per year earnings without sounding hyperbolic. Instead we're going to have to talk about percentages of the cap.

Personally, if Jordan Poole is being paid $35m per year on his new deal, there's no universe where Herb is worth less than $25m a year, especially if we're talking about it with the assumption that he's 36% from 3 and can self create in the midrange reliably.

That said, 2nd team all-D? The Dud imagine he's going to get worse defensively?

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Since Herb didn't make 2nd Team All-Defense last year, it would be a step up to make 2nd team this year. Not saying he shouldn't jump all the way to 1st team this year...just not the way it usually works. FWIW: Doubt there is anyone who has Herb rated as highly as I do...with the exception of Dinky Mulberry

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

It?s two separate things - yes I agree he could be an unnecessary distraction and likely not worth it on the court

But man, libs just love branding people as bad. It?s like their favorite thing to do - judge others. So embarrassed I used to be one

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Lol there?s so much wrong with this statement.

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Originally Posted by TennMan23

This!
Dae called him a fundamentally bad person for being a Christian and having a different opinion basically. Guess tolerance for other?s beliefs are not in yours and have no problem throwing that first stone. SMH!

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I didn't call him a fundamentally bad person for being a Christian or having a ''different opinion''. I called him a fundamentally bad person for being a conspiracy theorist who spoke at an extremist conference that also hosts alumni such as professional bigot and harasser of parents with dead children, Alex Jones.

Lots of good people out there who are Christian. Lots of good people out there who have different opinions to me on a variety of topics. Not many good people out there who take speaking engagements alongside Alex Jones at a conference founded by someone who believes the COVID-19 pandemic is a hoax designed to allow Bill Gates to create new species of human being via vaccine, and engages in antisemitic conspiracy theorising surrounding George Soros.

That's the last I'm going to speak on this topic, but I'm making it clear that my dislike of Isaac is not based on him being religious or just on mild disagreement but on fundamental disagreements with his worldviews that lead to direct and practical real world damage to people. Yes, I believe that kind of thing makes you a bad person. You're free to disagree with me if you want but that's my stance on the issue.

Edit: and for the record, I'm not a 'lib' either.

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Originally Posted by The Dud

Since Herb didn't make 2nd Team All-Defense last year, it would be a step up to make 2nd team this year. Not saying he shouldn't jump all the way to 1st team this year...just not the way it usually works. FWIW: Doubt there is anyone who has Herb rated as highly as I do...with the exception of Dinky Mulberry

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He was 1st team All D quality last year, and I'm talking more about impact than credits, since as you point out those don't really have any direct link to reality.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I think we're really starting to get to that point in NBA history where salaries are so high that it's impossible to talk about the per year earnings without sounding hyperbolic. Instead we're going to have to talk about percentages of the cap.

Personally, if Jordan Poole is being paid $35m per year on his new deal, there's no universe where Herb is worth less than $25m a year, especially if we're talking about it with the assumption that he's 36% from 3 and can self create in the midrange reliably.

That said, 2nd team all-D? The Dud imagine he's going to get worse defensively?

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I think the Wiggins contract will be a nice comparison in negotiations. Like it or not, elite scoring gets paid more than elite defending. It’s difficult for a guy averaging 11 ppg to come in and demand near max money no matter how good he is defensively. Herb will sign an early deal because he was a 2nd round pick and has been playing on a very minimal deal thus far. He’ll get the extension after this season, but it won’t be for that 30 mil number

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I didn't call him a fundamentally bad person for being a Christian or having a ''different opinion''. I called him a fundamentally bad person for being a conspiracy theorist who spoke at an extremist conference that also hosts alumni such as professional bigot and harasser of parents with dead children, Alex Jones.

Lots of good people out there who are Christian. Lots of good people out there who have different opinions to me on a variety of topics. Not many good people out there who take speaking engagements alongside Alex Jones at a conference founded by someone who believes the COVID-19 pandemic is a hoax designed to allow Bill Gates to create new species of human being via vaccine, and engages in antisemitic conspiracy theorising surrounding George Soros.

That's the last I'm going to speak on this topic, but I'm making it clear that my dislike of Isaac is not based on him being religious or just on mild disagreement but on fundamental disagreements with his worldviews that lead to direct and practical real world damage to people. Yes, I believe that kind of thing makes you a bad person. You're free to disagree with me if you want but that's my stance on the issue.

Edit: and for the record, I'm not a 'lib' either.

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Imagine you are a fairly normal person. You happen to have two small beliefs that don’t hurt anyone (I stand for the national anthem and I don’t put vaccines in my body)

Now, you aren’t trying to say others who think the opposite are bad. Or that they shouldn’t do the opposite. You are cool with them kneeling and taking vaccines. You are just living your life with your preferences

And all of a sudden you are demonized by a very large group that is the most active and most vocal in your country. You become a terrible person over night

That would wear in anybody. So then the other side says, “Hey, we think you are brave for your stance. Come tell your story”

You think you wouldn’t but you have no clue what it feels like to be hated by millions of people for basically nothing

That’s how these people end up on Fox News and these conferences. The unnecessary hate from
Libs create it

Problem is he's a preacher so he's not just living his life and doing his own thing by himself. He's literally spreading this as a message of godliness. Which is funny to me, being a dude who was raised and still spends every Sunday in churches listening to absurd statements and belief.

Anywho. Before this thread gets locked and since we're officially out the offseason...

What's the predictions this year? I'll start.

MVP: Luka
DPOY: Gobert
MIP: Haliburton
ROY: Ivey

MVP: Tatum (Boston gets #1 seed and the narrative is that Tatum became the leader through the whole coach mess)
DPOY: Ben Simmons (Nets defense aint half bad and Simmons gets the credit, though KD and Kyrie will be half decent)
MIP: Maxey (wont be deserved, but its a narrative award too, and he will clearly be better than Harden this year so they will give it to him)
ROY: Banchero (only see him and Murray as having a real chance to win this)

Bucks over Nuggets in NBA Finals

MVP: Zion
DPOY: Gobert
MIP: Sabonis (Sacto gonna be good)
ROY: Banchero
Coach: Willie

GSW beat Pels in WCF
Bucks beat 6ers in ECF

GSW repeats

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I didn't call him a fundamentally bad person for being a Christian or having a ''different opinion''. I called him a fundamentally bad person for being a conspiracy theorist who spoke at an extremist conference that also hosts alumni such as professional bigot and harasser of parents with dead children, Alex Jones.

Lots of good people out there who are Christian. Lots of good people out there who have different opinions to me on a variety of topics. Not many good people out there who take speaking engagements alongside Alex Jones at a conference founded by someone who believes the COVID-19 pandemic is a hoax designed to allow Bill Gates to create new species of human being via vaccine, and engages in antisemitic conspiracy theorising surrounding George Soros.

That's the last I'm going to speak on this topic, but I'm making it clear that my dislike of Isaac is not based on him being religious or just on mild disagreement but on fundamental disagreements with his worldviews that lead to direct and practical real world damage to people. Yes, I believe that kind of thing makes you a bad person. You're free to disagree with me if you want but that's my stance on the issue.

Edit: and for the record, I'm not a 'lib' either.

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bingo!

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

MVP: Tatum (Boston gets #1 seed and the narrative is that Tatum became the leader through the whole coach mess)
DPOY: Ben Simmons (Nets defense aint half bad and Simmons gets the credit, though KD and Kyrie will be half decent)
MIP: Maxey (wont be deserved, but its a narrative award too, and he will clearly be better than Harden this year so they will give it to him)
ROY: Banchero (only see him and Murray as having a real chance to win this)

Bucks over Nuggets in NBA Finals

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Only one i placed a bet on:

6th MOY: Jose Alvarado

Mostly because this one is also a narrative award; and if Pels are good I think he'd have a good chance to win the narrative/hussle. TNT already loves him and will have him on from time to time I'd bet if Pels are good, so the narrative could form.

Good odds at +15000

MVP: Tatum
DPOY: Gobert
MIP : Maxey
ROY: Ben Math
6MOTY: Trigga Trey Murphy
COTY: Willie

Nuggets win the chip

MVP: Tatum
DPOY: Giannis
MIP : Trey?
ROY: Jabari Smith
6MOTY: Trey III the third #3
COTY: Malone
Champs: Warriors

Comeback Player of the Year = The Chosen

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Comeback Player of the Year = The Chosen

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kira lewis?

If I see one more person on twitter say we need a backup center with size I’m going to lose my mind. Has to be the worst take about the Pels floating around these days

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

MVP: Tatum (Boston gets #1 seed and the narrative is that Tatum became the leader through the whole coach mess)
DPOY: Ben Simmons (Nets defense aint half bad and Simmons gets the credit, though KD and Kyrie will be half decent)
MIP: Maxey (wont be deserved, but its a narrative award too, and he will clearly be better than Harden this year so they will give it to him)
ROY: Banchero (only see him and Murray as having a real chance to win this)

Bucks over Nuggets in NBA Finals

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May want to rethink that Simmons take

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Originally Posted by ULsaint

May want to rethink that Simmons take

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Simmons is mentally broken

I don't think he even wants to ball anymore

That's fine, most people change a lot of careers

Negotiate a buyout then go live your best life

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Simmons is mentally broken

I don't think he even wants to ball anymore

That's fine, most people change a lot of careers

Negotiate a buyout then go live your best life

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If Ben Simmons plays this season, he will have made $77 million in his NBA career. He has 2 more years on his contract. If he sticks this basketball thing out, he will have pocketed $155 million. If I were him, I'd continue to embarrass myself and then buy a compound in Hawaii and chill.

MVP: Luka
DPOY: Bam
MIP: Bones Hyland (although MIP has basically been a 'runners up' award for other awards recently, with Ja getting it.)
ROY: Keegan Murray