Pels Off season thread

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

I agree but the GM has been given the green light by Mrs. Benson to go over the cap if needed. If we go over the cap this year, we can most likely get under it for loading off our multiple picks for a sign and trade with SGA and Lowry next year. We may have to eventually trade Olynyk or Forbes but we still keep most of the core in tact.

I like Hart and will not be mad if we sign him. Just think Marshall can provide what he does unless we strike out at guard depth.

SGA and NAW are cousins. They will want to play together. Only a matter of time. Better us getting SGA with NAW right?


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Going over the cap is not the same thing as going into luxury tax

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Going over the cap is not the same thing as going into luxury tax

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Well the way Griffin has phrased it, it seems luxury tax. Maybe i?m wrong but i don?t see any other tax that would get you over the top. Hard cap wouldn?t make much sense. He would basically have a year of luxury tax to fill his team outside of his core in 2022 of SGA, NAW, Ingram, Zion, and Hayes.

Expensive tryouts but worth it. Doesn?t Golden State operate like that?


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For you Malcom Brogdon Lovers:

https://clutchpoints.com/pacers-rumo...trade-brewing/

Can someone explain to me what would be the point of operating as a cap space team, apart from saving Gayle money?

We've been an over the cap team for as long as I can remember, why wouldn't we be this year?

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Can someone explain to me what would be the point of operating as a cap space team, apart from saving Gayle money?

We've been an over the cap team for as long as I can remember, why wouldn't we be this year?

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I dont think you understand what we are talking about at all when we talk about "operating as..."

But it has nothing to do with finishing over the cap vs under it. Would take a lot of words to explain but to be brief: ome is not being cheap while the other is spending money..it has to do with the mechanics

Easiest way to do a Lonzo for Brogdon sign and trade would be to roll it into the Memphis trade. Take back Warren too so we help them with lux tax

Lonzo out, Brogdon and Warren in. Added to Memphis trade, its legal and allows to be an over the cap team where we still have Harts bird rights and the MLE. Use MLE on Alec Burks and without even considering who we draft we have this squad

Brogdon/Kira
NAW/Burks/Didi
Ingram/Hart/Naji
Zion/Warren
Jonas/Hayes

Am I wrong to think that we won’t be able to roll sign and trade into Memphis deal because of draft picks? Obviously we can’t sign and trade until Lonzo becomes a FA. I realize we will pick for Memphis and vice versa. If there’s no complication with tying a sign and trade with the Memphis deal, that opens up all kinds of possibilities.

It will be really easy to roll anything into the Memphis trade and I would bet Griff made it part of the agreement, just like we agreed to allow Lakers to roll stuff into AD trade as they worked that offseason

Would you guys rather Lowery or Brogdon? Money and age all considered.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I dont think you understand what we are talking about at all when we talk about "operating as..."

But it has nothing to do with finishing over the cap vs under it. Would take a lot of words to explain but to be brief: ome is not being cheap while the other is spending money..it has to do with the mechanics

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The only exception you get as a cap room team is the room exception right?

I like Lowery at pg And brogdan at sg

LOWRY

L-O-W-R-Y

LOWRY

L.....O.......W.........R..........Y


THERE IS NO E in LOWRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by AusPel

The only exception you get as a cap room team is the room exception right?

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Correct. Which is smaller and less years. For so many reasons, the Pelicans should act like an above the cap team this offseason. In order to do that with Lowry, they need Toronto to sign and trade him to us and put him in this Memphis deal. Which means you might have to compensate Toronto slightly, but that is worth it to me if we can stay above the cap

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

Would you guys rather Lowery or Brogdon? Money and age all considered.

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This is tough. I would need to know who else I am getting with that money savings. In my example it was TJ Warren and I'd rather Warren and Brogdon than Lowry. I also dont want Lowry if I have to give up Hart's bird rights.

Again, it all comes down to the mechanics of the moves and other teams willingness to work with us. But assuming all sides are willing to work with us, the Lonzo going to Indy and Brogdon plus Warren or Lamb coming here is my preferred route

The Lowe Post from yesterday leads me to believe there’s a number of teams in the Lonzo race that have not been mentioned or hypothesized about. Some suitors that could be interesting are the Mavs, Denver, Portland, GS, and Memphis, all of which Lonzo could really thrive in an off ball role and not have to carry as much of a ball handling load as he does here.

The more I think about it, the more angry I get with SVG last year and his insistence on playing Bledsoe large minutes over NAW. If we knew what we had in NAW and it was good, Lonzo would make more sense here. If your ball handling hierarchy is Zion, BI, NAW, Lonzo, then I think Zo is a really nice fit on this team. It is just hard to go into next season with the expectation of winning relying so much on NAW to carry that load.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

This is tough. I would need to know who else I am getting with that money savings. In my example it was TJ Warren and I'd rather Warren and Brogdon than Lowry. I also dont want Lowry if I have to give up Hart's bird rights.

Again, it all comes down to the mechanics of the moves and other teams willingness to work with us. But assuming all sides are willing to work with us, the Lonzo going to Indy and Brogdon plus Warren or Lamb coming here is my preferred route

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I think Lamb would be more likely. I’d imagine Indy would not want to sell so low on Warren who is one year removed from a pretty incredible season scoring. That is unless of course the Warren foot injury is more serious than I envision.

I would be almost as excited for a healthy Warren on this team as I would be for Brogdon. An elite corner 3 point shooter who is devastating attacking close outs and a quick decision maker on the catch. Perfect fit in between Zion and BI

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Correct. Which is smaller and less years. For so many reasons, the Pelicans should act like an above the cap team this offseason. In order to do that with Lowry, they need Toronto to sign and trade him to us and put him in this Memphis deal. Which means you might have to compensate Toronto slightly, but that is worth it to me if we can stay above the cap

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So clearing all that salary wasn't so we could operate as a cap space team, it's to be able to use as much salary as possible without going into tax

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Originally Posted by AusPel

So clearing all that salary wasn't so we could operate as a cap space team, it's to be able to use as much salary as possible without going into tax

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We didnt clear cap space. You will see how it plays out. The Memphis trade will get bigger. We wont have "cap space" this summer, I am betting

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

I think Lamb would be more likely. I’d imagine Indy would not want to sell so low on Warren who is one year removed from a pretty incredible season scoring. That is unless of course the Warren foot injury is more serious than I envision.

I would be almost as excited for a healthy Warren on this team as I would be for Brogdon. An elite corner 3 point shooter who is devastating attacking close outs and a quick decision maker on the catch. Perfect fit in between Zion and BI

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Has nothing to do with Warren. They are wanting to get as far away from the tax as possible so they can re-sign McDermott. Dumping Warren helps them do that. So basically, they are trading Brogdon and Warren for Lonzo and McDermott here

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

LOWRY

L-O-W-R-Y

LOWRY

L.....O.......W.........R..........Y


THERE IS NO E in LOWRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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He's one of the few Lowerys that spell it Lowry.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

This is tough. I would need to know who else I am getting with that money savings. In my example it was TJ Warren and I'd rather Warren and Brogdon than Lowry. I also dont want Lowry if I have to give up Hart's bird rights.

Again, it all comes down to the mechanics of the moves and other teams willingness to work with us. But assuming all sides are willing to work with us, the Lonzo going to Indy and Brogdon plus Warren or Lamb coming here is my preferred route

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Fair point. I wonder if Lonzo would be willing to do a sign/trade to Indy. I guess it doesn't matter if they're willing to give him the money that he wants.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

He's one of the few Lowerys that spell it Lowry.

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And I get that but the guy has been around forever. You have all seen his name dozens of times by now -- like JJ Redick. We gotta spell these name right!!! Lol

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Has nothing to do with Warren. They are wanting to get as far away from the tax as possible so they can re-sign McDermott. Dumping Warren helps them do that. So basically, they are trading Brogdon and Warren for Lonzo and McDermott here

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Right but there's other directions they could go. I'd guess they would rather Warren over Lamb and the Holidays. They're also trying to move Turner.

I just don't want to be disappointed when I see the Woj report and it says Brogdon and Lamb instead of Brogdon and Warren lol. I still like the idea of Brogdon and Lamb alot

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

Would you guys rather Lowery or Brogdon? Money and age all considered.

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Brogdon, but not by much.

Lowry 2021 season wasn't that great. His defense has fallen off big time and we don't have the support to hide him. He was washed on defense and couldn't keep anyone in front of him. He missed a lot of time. I honestly don't trust a 35 year old to be healthy or that effective outside of his scoring,passing,and him drawing charge fouls. Lowry works on a 1 year deal. Anything else more than that is a bad contract. When Griffin preached about sustainability... Lowry is a terrible FA acquisition with that philosophy.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Brogdon, but not by much.

Lowry 2021 season wasn't that great. His defense has fallen off big time and we don't have the support to hide him. He was washed on defense and couldn't keep anyone in front of him. He missed a lot of time. I honestly don't trust a 35 year old to be healthy or that effective outside of his scoring,passing,and him drawing charge fouls. Lowry works on a 1 year deal. Anything else more than that is a bad contract. When Griffin preached about sustainability... Lowry is a terrible FA acquisition with that philosophy.

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I'm very worried about Brogdon's health. More so than I am with Lowry. There was a number of reports when Brogdon came out of college that his body had about a 6 or 7 year NBA lifespan. That's why he fell to the 2nd round even though he was an extremely productive college player.

Lowry was held of a number of games last season to support the tank, but prior to last year Lowry had played more games than Brogdon in each of the prior 3 seasons.

The key for me, though, is what else can you get outside of Brogdon. That's where I would probably swing to the Brogdon side.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Brogdon, but not by much.

Lowry 2021 season wasn't that great. His defense has fallen off big time and we don't have the support to hide him. He was washed on defense and couldn't keep anyone in front of him. He missed a lot of time. I honestly don't trust a 35 year old to be healthy or that effective outside of his scoring,passing,and him drawing charge fouls. Lowry works on a 1 year deal. Anything else more than that is a bad contract. When Griffin preached about sustainability... Lowry is a terrible FA acquisition with that philosophy.

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To me Lowry feels like a good stopgap, but we could do better if we are in a hurry to compete. Agree that we shouldn’t look for him longterm and I think we should look for a deal that gives us flexibility if things go awry. 1 year preferable

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

I just don't want to be disappointed when I see the Woj report and it says Brogdon and Lamb instead of Brogdon and Warren lol. I still like the idea of Brogdon and Lamb alot

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I think you are thinking of Bubble Warren, not the TJ Warren he has been his whole career. Heck, injury considered, I could see Justin Holiday being more valuable than Warren next year. In fact, give me Holiday and Lamb over Warren because now I got 17 mil in expirings instead of 12 to use for a trade in Feb

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I think you are thinking of Bubble Warren, not the TJ Warren he has been his whole career. Heck, injury considered, I could see Justin Holiday being more valuable than Warren next year. In fact, give me Holiday and Lamb over Warren because now I got 17 mil in expirings instead of 12 to use for a trade in Feb

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Warren averaged 20 ppg on 54-40-82 shooting throughout the 2019-2020 season. Are we sure that bubble Warren wasn't just TJ Warren on a larger stage? Phoenix was the worst team in basketball while he was there. When he went to an actual system in Indy, he performed at an extremely high level.

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

Am I wrong to think that we won?t be able to roll sign and trade into Memphis deal because of draft picks? Obviously we can?t sign and trade until Lonzo becomes a FA. I realize we will pick for Memphis and vice versa. If there?s no complication with tying a sign and trade with the Memphis deal, that opens up all kinds of possibilities.

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The Memphis trade will not be finalized until Aug 6 (new league year), so technically, Lonzo will be a FA then. The draft picks are between Memphis and New Orleans and that part has already been agreed upon.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Warren averaged 20 ppg on 54-40-82 shooting throughout the 2019-2020 season. Are we sure that bubble Warren wasn't just TJ Warren on a larger stage? Phoenix was the worst team in basketball while he was there. When he went to an actual system in Indy, he performed at an extremely high level.

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Maybe he is. He also had a major injury and is extremely disgruntled. Remember, there are very few teams that can just take him off their hands without giving salary back - which is their goal. So, long story short, I think we can have him if we want in the deal. Maybe you gotta give up the 2022 Cleveland pick to get him over Holiday or Lamb, but point remains.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

The Memphis trade will not be finalized until Aug 6 (new league year), so technically, Lonzo will be a FA then. The draft picks are between Memphis and New Orleans and that part has already been agreed upon.

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And it might not be until after that, honestly. Remember how the Pels-Lakers trade dragged on a few extra days because of complexities? Long story short, this is an easy thing to work in. Nothing complex at all. Fairly regular

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Brogdon, but not by much.

Lowry 2021 season wasn't that great. His defense has fallen off big time and we don't have the support to hide him. He was washed on defense and couldn't keep anyone in front of him. He missed a lot of time. I honestly don't trust a 35 year old to be healthy or that effective outside of his scoring,passing,and him drawing charge fouls. Lowry works on a 1 year deal. Anything else more than that is a bad contract. When Griffin preached about sustainability... Lowry is a terrible FA acquisition with that philosophy.

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I feel the same... signing a 35 year old to a 30+ mil multi-year contract is a mistake. (If reports are correct) Griff is signing Lowry to bring leadership. I don't know what the price tag is for leadership, but I doubt Lowry would have the same impact as CP on the floor.

I think Lowry is washed but maybe he has some left in the tank.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

To me Lowry feels like a good stopgap, but we could do better if we are in a hurry to compete. Agree that we shouldn’t look for him longterm and I think we should look for a deal that gives us flexibility if things go awry. 1 year preferable

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He is (a stopgap). Word is they love his leadership, and they would bring in Lowry for a couple/few years while Kyra develops. I still don't think he's worth more than a 1-yr deal... I'd do THAT. But 3 years at 30 mil/per ain't cool.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

I feel the same... signing a 35 year old to a 30+ mil multi-year contract is a mistake. (If reports are correct) Griff is signing Lowry to bring leadership. I don't know what the price tag is for leadership, but I doubt Lowry would have the same impact as CP on the floor.

I think Lowry is washed but maybe he has some left in the tank.

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I think it's weird to declare Lowry washed when he averaged 17/5/7 on 60%TS and, in a season where Toronto didn't play a *single* home game, still posted an EPM that would have been 3rd on the Pels last year.

It was a pretty terrible year for Toronto circumstantially, and yeah Lowry had some injuries, so it was a slight down year but it's not like he was actually bad. He was still very good! Better than any guard on our team last year, by a wide margin.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

He is (a stopgap). Word is they love his leadership, and they would bring in Lowry for a couple/few years while Kyra develops. I still don't think he's worth more than a 1-yr deal... I'd do THAT. But 3 years at 30 mil/per ain't cool.

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A sign and trade has to be for minimum 3 years, so don't hold your breath on a 1 yr deal (setting aside the fact that other teams would offer more so why would he accept just 1 yr).

Hoop Central
@TheHoopCentral

Report: Lakers, Mavs, and Pelicans are showing interest in Landry Shamet, via
@IanBegley

A younger reddick

Griff is like oh-fer-5 on “bringing in leadership” via high-priced vets, so I’m pretty well done with that concept. Build that culture from within like Memphis.

I love Lowry and Brogdon but on balance I’d prefer Brogdon especially if we can get Warren attached. We’d have to break the bank to lure Lowry here and as a small guard in his mid-30s his drop off could be sudden.

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Originally Posted by Speakthetruth

Hoop Central
@TheHoopCentral

Report: Lakers, Mavs, and Pelicans are showing interest in Landry Shamet, via
@IanBegley

A younger reddick

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He can defend.

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Originally Posted by Speakthetruth

Hoop Central
@TheHoopCentral

Report: Lakers, Mavs, and Pelicans are showing interest in Landry Shamet, via
@IanBegley

A younger reddick

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Is he available for trade?

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

He can defend.

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Ehhh, mixed thoughts on that. He can defend more than Redick at this point in his career, sure, but in the absolute sense he's not a very good defender the majority of the time.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Ehhh, mixed thoughts on that. He can defend more than Redick at this point in his career, sure, but in the absolute sense he's not a very good defender the majority of the time.

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That's what I meant.

Shamet is a woeful defender

What is even happening

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Shamet is a woeful defender

What is even happening

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I think he was like, the 430th best defender in the NBA according to D-EPM last year. Which is, yes, better than Redick - but not by much! And is still bad!

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Shamet is a woeful defender

What is even happening

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David Whiffin making moves...

I have no idea why Droopy was making a correlation between Shamet and good D

Shamet is nothing but a streaky shooter. Basically a vet min guy

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Originally Posted by Taker597

David Whiffin making moves...

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He hasn’t even made the bad move yet. Let the ink dry at least.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

He hasn’t even made the bad move yet. Let the ink dry at least.

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We're all on edge knowing it's likely coming...

With the draft tomorrow I feel like something is going to get confirmed in the next 36 hours or so.

If we move the pick, then it's preferable you get that organised ready to announce either before the draft, or during it, so that the team you're trading it to gets to make the selection. Picks always become less valuable once you've made them because now the recipient team has no control over it.

On the other hand, if we don't move the pick and we acquire a rookie it will be interesting to see who we take. Does someone slide down to us (Springer? Garuba? Kispert?), or do we end up taking (what I believe to be the incorrect) route of drafting someone like Duarte on the assumption that they will contribute sooner?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

With the draft tomorrow I feel like something is going to get confirmed in the next 36 hours or so.

If we move the pick, then it's preferable you get that organised ready to announce either before the draft, or during it, so that the team you're trading it to gets to make the selection. Picks always become less valuable once you've made them because now the recipient team has no control over it.

On the other hand, if we don't move the pick and we acquire a rookie it will be interesting to see who we take. Does someone slide down to us (Springer? Garuba? Kispert?), or do we end up taking (what I believe to be the incorrect) route of drafting someone like Duarte on the assumption that they will contribute sooner?

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Could also have an agreement in place contingent on a specific player being available at our pick (more likely in a trade down scenario).