2024 Offseason Thread

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Straight out of the Griff. playbook. He told Windy give me 2 weeks.

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I mean, we all know I don't really think much of Griff but in this particular case, Griff is right. He said that people tend to think the offseason ends at the draft but it doesn't. Donovan Mitchell was traded in September to give another example.

Draft-day trades are most common but it's not like things never happen at other times. I hope we don't have to wait until September (even if BI signs an extension, I'd rather him get it over with early) but it's always a possibility.

If they were planning on moving Ingram, it would most likely be best to do so when teams don't perceive them as desperate to do so. All sorts of other opportunities could also open up in the meantime.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

If they were planning on moving Ingram, it would most likely be best to do so when teams don't perceive them as desperate to do so. All sorts of other opportunities could also open up in the meantime.

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From the sounds of it, there feels like there's probably a bit of a stand-off going on between Atlanta and New Orleans.

We want a guard. Personally I prefer Trae, but I wouldn't be shocked if Griff prefers DJM. Either way, we want one of them.

Atlanta wants to move one of them, but it also clearly wants to maximise the return.

Atlanta probably wants to move Trae, since the rumours of him having preferences indicate that he's open to that and frankly, as the much better and more accomplished player, his trade should net a higher return. However, they aren't getting the offers they want.

So they're in the media saying ''actually, Trae's value isn't even that high, we're getting wild offers for Dejounte though, some crazy offers, so you're going to have to match that.''

And it makes sense for Atlanta. Either someone bites and overpays for DJM and they get both a haul and to keep Trae, or someone blinks and decides to pay up for Trae now since they don't want to lose the chance if DJM is so desired because once he's gone, Trae won't be on the market anymore.

My major concern - and again, this isn't new from me, I've been consistent on this - is that Griff is ultimately too wedded to what he has and too risk-averse to make a decision before someone else makes it for us, and we'll end up getting the trade swept away from us (whichever trade that is, DJM or Trae).

Trying to get into Atlanta's head is really weird.

You're essentially at a point where your two stars don't fit together and it's time to either get another superstar to elevate to another level or blow it up and try to find your next franchise player to build around. There aren't really any superstar pieces available so...there's Ingram? Now look guys, I love BI....but I can see he's good #2. I know people will argue with that but we can all agree he isn't All NBA face of the championship franchise caliber. So do the Hawks think they can trade Young or Murray for BI and other Pels players and piece together a competitive team? Or would they prefer to blow it up and trade for young assets and draft picks? If it's the 2nd, we would have to involve Philly somehow.

The problem is....I don't see the Hawks being able to do either. I could see them dealing out Young for BI and let's say Herb Jones (their perspective do it is their fantasy).....would Murray, BI, Herb, and the rest of the Hawks be a playoff team? Sure....are they contenders or on the path to contend in a few seasons? Not a chance. But also, blowing up the team for picks from Philly and NOLA would be awful, too. Philly with BI is absolutely title contenders for the foreseeable future and I think the same thing for Zion with with Trae....those picks are going to be awful with very little chance at rebuilding a franchise. Now the 76ers do have a protected pick swap with the Clips that could turn into a 4th selection....but still......

I think the problem is that Atlanta doesn't have a good path to take so it's going to be hard to please them. Their only option is to hold firm and try to fleece a desperate team. You are in no rush. Might as well go into the season and wait for a GM to start feeling the hot seat and up the ante on trades.

Or do y'all see a better path to success for ATL?

Griffin should be exploring multiple moves here. BI should be the first as his contract situation is the biggest issue. We already know who we want there in that deal. We also need to try and dangle CJ and see if anyone bites. It’s a long shot, but if we can get some useful expiring out of the deal (veteran guards that fit decently with BI and Zion) you can also go that route. For me, you have to at least find a solid starting floor general this offseason. Not doing so would be a massive failure for Griff.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Trying to get into Atlanta's head is really weird.

You're essentially at a point where your two stars don't fit together and it's time to either get another superstar to elevate to another level or blow it up and try to find your next franchise player to build around. There aren't really any superstar pieces available so...there's Ingram? Now look guys, I love BI....but I can see he's good #2. I know people will argue with that but we can all agree he isn't All NBA face of the championship franchise caliber. So do the Hawks think they can trade Young or Murray for BI and other Pels players and piece together a competitive team? Or would they prefer to blow it up and trade for young assets and draft picks? If it's the 2nd, we would have to involve Philly somehow.

The problem is....I don't see the Hawks being able to do either. I could see them dealing out Young for BI and let's say Herb Jones (their perspective do it is their fantasy).....would Murray, BI, Herb, and the rest of the Hawks be a playoff team? Sure....are they contenders or on the path to contend in a few seasons? Not a chance. But also, blowing up the team for picks from Philly and NOLA would be awful, too. Philly with BI is absolutely title contenders for the foreseeable future and I think the same thing for Zion with with Trae....those picks are going to be awful with very little chance at rebuilding a franchise. Now the 76ers do have a protected pick swap with the Clips that could turn into a 4th selection....but still......

I think the problem is that Atlanta doesn't have a good path to take so it's going to be hard to please them. Their only option is to hold firm and try to fleece a desperate team. You are in no rush. Might as well go into the season and wait for a GM to start feeling the hot seat and up the ante on trades.

Or do y'all see a better path to success for ATL?

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Would you give up Herb to get Trae?

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

Griffin should be exploring multiple moves here. BI should be the first as his contract situation is the biggest issue. We already know who we want there in that deal. We also need to try and dangle CJ and see if anyone bites. It’s a long shot, but if we can get some useful expiring out of the deal (veteran guards that fit decently with BI and Zion) you can also go that route. For me, you have to at least find a solid starting floor general this offseason. Not doing so would be a massive failure for Griff.

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I don’t think at this stage of his career CJ’s deal is moveable. I think he will be here until his contract expires or maybe traded at the deadline to a contender in the 25-26 season.

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Would you give up Herb to get Trae?

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I might, depending on what else is going on in the deal. It would hurt a lot though. I love Herb and I think his contract is fantastic.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

I don’t think at this stage of his career CJ’s deal is moveable. I think he will be here until his contract expires or maybe traded at the deadline to a contender in the 25-26 season.

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I don’t think he’s very moveable either, but Griff shouldn’t just be sitting on a BI trade- to be fair to him he is probably exploring a CJ move. If we can move CJ and get some solid expirings, etc. that would give us more leeway to build a team around Zion (an Ingram move is still a possibility as well). We need a clear direction. Willie can’t coach the team as is.

The general consensus is always to trade whoever it takes to get the All-Star talent and then great role players will come to you on the cheap so my head would force me to trade Herb if that's what it took but my heart would hurt.....also I would try to do whatever I could to keep Trey and Herb because they would both keep the wing strong and could help the D where having Trae, CJ, and a gaping hole at C will be killing it.

Minnesota is trading Wendell Moore Jr. and the No. 37 pick in today's Day 2 of NBA draft to Detroit, sources say.

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) June 27, 2024

People have mentioned Jerami Grant and Brandon Ingram as potential targets for the Philadelphia 76ers, per @ZachLowe_NBA

“People have whispered Brandon Ingram, people have whispered Jerami Grant, neither of those are as exciting to me as Paul George. I don’t know what the hell… pic.twitter.com/MVqzyS7Ixi

— NBACentral (@TheDunkCentral) June 27, 2024

Look, I get why Philly might want BI, but they don't have the assets at all. It would have to be as part of a 3rd team, with that team supplying assets to us and potentially getting draft compensation in return.

What I'm saying is, Atlanta, would you like 5 FRPs for Trae Young?

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

The general consensus is always to trade whoever it takes to get the All-Star talent and then great role players will come to you on the cheap so my head would force me to trade Herb if that's what it took but my heart would hurt.....also I would try to do whatever I could to keep Trey and Herb because they would both keep the wing strong and could help the D where having Trae, CJ, and a gaping hole at C will be killing it.

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If we keep BI (on less than a max contract) then a package of CJ + either Trey or Herb for Trae young makes a ton of sense.

Trae
BI
Trey or Herb
Zion
?

That's nice!

ESPN Sources: The Atlanta Hawks are trading F AJ Griffin to the Houston Rockets for the 44th pick in Thursday’s NBA Draft. Griffin, 20, was a 2022 first-round pick out of Duke. pic.twitter.com/IhjHKnCxCd

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) June 27, 2024

I still believe in AJ, good move for Houston.

Hawks selling off stuff.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

If we keep BI (on less than a max contract) then a package of CJ + either Trey or Herb for Trae young makes a ton of sense.

Trae
BI
Trey or Herb
Zion
?

That's nice!

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They're not going to be interested in CJ, imo. The whole point of trading Trae for them is to reset from the small guard by adding a proven wing alongside their existing guard/big combination. Why would they trade Trae for someone older and a worse fit?

Of course you're right in that such a package would require either Herb or Trey to get it done (I would prefer Herb) but now you're basically selling off two trades worth of assets (young wing and CJ) for one return, and you still have all the fit issues that exist with BI to deal with.

And of course again, that all assumes BI is signing for less than a max contract, which I find highly doubtful. He's just watched OG Anunoby get $45m a year, and there's no way he values himself less than that.

Yeah. That would be amazing for us but there is no incentive there for Atlanta.

That's why I made that long post up above. What WOULD be a great move for Atlanta? What is their agenda?

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Yeah. That would be amazing for us but there is no incentive there for Atlanta.

That's why I made that long post up above. What WOULD be a great move for Atlanta? What is their agenda?

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Honestly, impossible to tell imo. At least with the information we have.

We know they're willing to sell off some assets, because they have/are, but only minor ones thus far.

It's been reported they want to split up DJM and Trae, and it's reasonable so suspect that they want to shed some money because they're an absurdly expensive team which is not even close to contention.

So a trade where they save some money, involving a guard, seems likely. But beyond that, it's hard to say. Would they prefer tons of draft assets and to just hit the re-start button, or do they want to save money while still acquiring talent as more of a refit than a rebuild? No clue.

Phoenix's Eric Gordon is declining his $3.4 million player option for the 2024-25 season and becomes a free agent, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. Multiple contenders are expected to pursue Gordon, who averaged 11 points on 37.8 percent 3-point shooting last season. pic.twitter.com/fQOp3zknsx

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) June 27, 2024

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Phoenix's Eric Gordon is declining his $3.4 million player option for the 2024-25 season and becomes a free agent, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. Multiple contenders are expected to pursue Gordon, who averaged 11 points on 37.8 percent 3-point shooting last season. pic.twitter.com/fQOp3zknsx

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) June 27, 2024

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Come on back?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

They're not going to be interested in CJ, imo. The whole point of trading Trae for them is to reset from the small guard by adding a proven wing alongside their existing guard/big combination. Why would they trade Trae for someone older and a worse fit?

Of course you're right in that such a package would require either Herb or Trey to get it done (I would prefer Herb) but now you're basically selling off two trades worth of assets (young wing and CJ) for one return, and you still have all the fit issues that exist with BI to deal with.

And of course again, that all assumes BI is signing for less than a max contract, which I find highly doubtful. He's just watched OG Anunoby get $45m a year, and there's no way he values himself less than that.

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I think with an elite creator like Trae on the team the fit equation with BI is entirely different. OG got 42 mil a year which is 10 mil less than BI's supposed mx, plusthe Knick's had already given up assets to acquire OG and couldn't let him walk for free. I still say nobody is paying BI +50 mil a year.

I get that CJ isn't nearly as enticing of an offer... which is why I'd be willing to package other assets to get it done.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

I think with an elite creator like Trae on the team the fit equation with BI is entirely different. OG got 42 mil a year which is 10 mil less than BI's supposed mx, plusthe Knick's had already given up assets to acquire OG and couldn't let him walk for free. I still say nobody is paying BI +50 mil a year.

I get that CJ isn't nearly as enticing of an offer... which is why I'd be willing to package other assets to get it done.

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I'm sceptical. BI says he wants a PG, which may be true to some extent, but he's an utterly anodyne player off-ball (or at least, he has been for the last two years). Very little dynamic about him in that role. It would be a straight talent upgrade, which ultimately is hard to turn down, but I don't think it fixes the fit issues with BI at all really.

And again, while it's true that OG got $10m a year less than BI's max, my whole point was (as I said in the post you're responding to) that I think he sees himself as worth much more than that. If OG justifies $42m a year, to BI that's just proof that he justified $52m a year. Because he's better.

You're right that the Knick's hand was slightly forced, but why should that matter for BI? All he and his agent should care about is the market rate for talented wings and that's set it; OG just spent a year averaging 15/4/2 and got $42m. No universe where BI accepts anything less than $50m when he averages 20/5/5 every year at a minimum, at least that's my expectation.

Denver and star Jamal Murray are working toward a four-year, $209 million maximum contract extension this offseason, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. Nuggets will present the deal to Murray – a 2023 NBA champion and one of the best clutch players – and sides expect agreement. pic.twitter.com/tOZ7UBWuli

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) June 27, 2024

$50m a year for a guy who just shot 47%TS in the playoffs and has never made an all-star team.

The price is being set for these guys.

Note: I am not denigrating Jamal Murray, who has played excellently in past playoff series and is a champion deservedly so; the fact that he's not been an all-star is actually a minor scandal. I'm just saying that this is what agents will be claiming when pushing for higher contracts for their own guys.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'm sceptical. BI says he wants a PG, which may be true to some extent, but he's an utterly anodyne player off-ball (or at least, he has been for the last two years). Very little dynamic about him in that role. It would be a straight talent upgrade, which ultimately is hard to turn down, but I don't think it fixes the fit issues with BI at all really.

And again, while it's true that OG got $10m a year less than BI's max, my whole point was (as I said in the post you're responding to) that I think he sees himself as worth much more than that. If OG justifies $42m a year, to BI that's just proof that he justified $52m a year. Because he's better.

You're right that the Knick's hand was slightly forced, but why should that matter for BI? All he and his agent should care about is the market rate for talented wings and that's set it; OG just spent a year averaging 15/4/2 and got $42m. No universe where BI accepts anything less than $50m when he averages 20/5/5 every year at a minimum, at least that's my expectation.

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BI might see himself as worth +50 mil a year, but I don't think any NBA team sees him that way. He acknolwdges that he had his worst year as a Pelican this year so I think he understands his value isn't what it could have been. And if he really does want to stay in New Orleans then maybe leaving for an extra couple mil a year isn't worth it. But we are all just guessing.

I agree with you he needs to be better off ball. But if we have Trae on the teamI really don't see BI iso ball being a thing anymore. It would take a lot of pressure off him, which I think will help him a lot because he just doesn't seem to have the mentality to be "the guy".

Mogbo to Toronto, Filipowski to Utah. Fairly expected early second round picks.

Tyler Smith to the Bucks. Again, all the expected names who were on the board going right at the start of the 2nd round.