Pelicans finalizing trade for Asik

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Originally Posted by Ogden Park

LOL, someone is actually using the mid-00's Pistons as an example of why we are doing it WRONG?

Good lord.


I've seen a ton of poor arguments bashing Demps' strategy. Never thought I'd see one that bad. Kudos.

People will really twist ANYTHING to fit their narrative.


So Detroit builds a championship team by signing and trading for young, well paid veterans, and only drafting one by them (at 23rd no less), and that is somehow the opposite of what we are doing? Yeah Demps should really look into that...oh wait.

Lol, maaaan.

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The problem with the Detroit comparison is it's not a good one to this team.

1st as I already mention the CBA is different. Much more difficult to keep a championship core together.

As for the Piston their closing 5(which happen to be there starting 5) was perfectly assembled.

You had the floor general, ball handler and floor spacer in Billups
You had the guy that was a threat to score without the ball in Hamilton
You had the lockdown perimeter defender and floor spacer in Prince
You had an unstoppable post scorer and great post defender in R. Wallace
Lastly you had the ultimate hustle guy, rim protector and anchor to the defense in B. Wallace

So who's the floor general? Holiday, Evans, perhaps Gordon?
Who's the lock down perimeter defender? Holiday? is he going to defend the best wings in the game nope.
Who's the guys making the defense work to cover him without the ball in his hands?
Who's our unstoppable post scorer?

The only thing we have is floor spacing as long as we don't trade Anderson. Rim protection which we have two of after the Asik trade. The defensive anchor again via the Asik trade. The ball handlers we have 3 of them.

Which in lays the problem too many players with overlapping skills. The only overlapping skills a team can get away with is shooting and passing.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I guess it depends on how you define develop. Has Robert, Ajinca, or Babbitt shown that they are anything more than rotational players on a non playoff team? Technically Morrow isn't under contract anymore. Again I'm assuming he means a main contributor on a cheap contract. There will always be a player on cheap contracts on every team.

Also where's the cap space going to come from to offer Asik this extension?

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Uh. From his own cap hold? Or are you assuming he's going to ask to be a max player?

As far as development goes I don't think there's any way around acknowledging Monty is good at player development. Why do you think guys come back here in the summer from other teams? Look at what Lopez and Jack did here, look at how Monty developed Batum. Look at how much Morrow, Ajinca, Smith, Rivers, Withey, and AD have all improved while being here. Look at how our team has taken players that no one else wanted and turned them into solid rotational players in the NBA. I couldn't give a crap about the "main" contributors on cheap contracts argument. We have the best one in the entire league. Saying we don't develop players is a bold faced lie.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

The problem with the Detroit comparison is it's not a good one to this team.

1st as I already mention the CBA is different. Much more difficult to keep a championship core together.

As for the Piston their closing 5(which happen to be there starting 5) was perfectly assembled.

You had the floor general, ball handler and floor spacer in Billups
You had the guy that was a threat to score without the ball in Hamilton
You had the lockdown perimeter defender and floor spacer in Prince
You had an unstoppable post scorer and great post defender in R. Wallace
Lastly you had the ultimate hustle guy, rim protector and anchor to the defense in B. Wallace

So who's the floor general? Holiday, Evans, perhaps Gordon?
Who's the lock down perimeter defender? Holiday? is he going to defend the best wings in the game nope.
Who's the guys making the defense work to cover him without the ball in his hands?
Who's our unstoppable post scorer?

The only thing we have is floor spacing as long as we don't trade Anderson. Rim protection which we have two of after the Asik trade. The defensive anchor again via the Asik trade. The ball handlers we have 3 of them.

Which in lays the problem too many players with overlapping skills. The only overlapping skills a team can get away with is shooting and passing.

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No one said it wasn't hard. No matter what the strategy is, it is hard.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Uh. From his own cap hold? Or are you assuming he's going to ask to be a max player?

As far as development goes I don't think there's any way around acknowledging Monty is good at player development. Why do you think guys come back here in the summer from other teams? Look at what Lopez and Jack did here, look at how Monty developed Batum. Look at how much Morrow, Ajinca, Smith, Rivers, Withey, and AD have all improved while being here. Look at how our team has taken players that no one else wanted and turned them into solid rotational players in the NBA. I couldn't give a crap about the "main" contributors on cheap contracts argument. We have the best one in the entire league. Saying we don't develop players is a bold faced lie.

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A max player no but we do know bigs have a tendency to get overpaid. He'll make 15 million this year. I don't see how he'll sign for under an 8 figure deal next year. My guess would be in the 11-14M's per range.

As for player development it's certainly Monty's biggest strength IMO. However I'm not sure if that's his argument(and he should feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), but I think he's saying how is this helping us. Meaning where are the bargains on this roster. Outside of Anderson and he's still making a decent salary.

So even if Davis is the "best" main contributor on a cheap deal that clearly isn't enough and it won't be the case in another couple of years.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

A max player no but we do know bigs have a tendency to get overpaid. He'll make 15 million this year. I don't see how he'll sign for under an 8 figure deal next year. My guess would be in the 11-14M's per range.

As for player development it's certainly Monty's biggest strength IMO. However I'm not sure if that's his argument(and he should feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), but I think he's saying how is this helping us. Meaning where are the bargains on this roster. Outside of Anderson and he's still making a decent salary.

So even if Davis is the "best" main contributor on a cheap deal that clearly isn't enough and it won't be the case in another couple of years.

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In your opinion. I disagree with almost all of that.

I don't think Holiday or Evans are bargain contracts until proven otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

No one said it wasn't hard. No matter what the strategy is, it is hard.

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Agree and I always try to take a moment to recognize the fact that it's not easy to have success. What is easy is for me to sit in front of my laptop and form opinions when my job isn't on the line.

However this is why I always point to drafting talent because it allows for much more flexibility. And as I continue to point out this flexibility has become extensively more important under the current CBA and I don't see the league changing(unless it gets even more restrictive under a new CBA).

I think the old way of just taking best player available (whether FA or draft) is also going to have to give way to fit, cost efficiency, talent evaluation, and a little bit of luck. I think this is the future of championship basketball especially for city that are in what most would consider less desirable markets.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

In your opinion. I disagree with almost all of that.

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Yes this is my opinion I think we can all take for granted when someone has given their own opinion. What we don't know is what don't you agree with and why.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Agree and I always try to take a moment to recognize the fact that it's not easy to have success. What is easy is for me to sit in front of my laptop and form opinions when my job isn't on the line.

However this is why I always point to drafting talent because it allows for much more flexibility. And as I continue to point out this flexibility has become extensively more important under the current CBA and I don't see the league changing(unless it gets even more restrictive under a new CBA).

I think the old way of just taking best player available (whether FA or draft) is also going to have to give way to fit, cost efficiency, talent evaluation, and a little bit of luck. I think this is the future of championship basketball especially for city that are in what most would consider less desirable markets.

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I guess we will have to wait and see. I love the Spurs, but we've seen so many different ways of going about it, it's hard to say which is the "best" for any franchise. Who's to say Dell isn't completely ahead of the curve and in 5 years every team won't be going for the "young vet" model. We simply don't know.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Yes this is my opinion I think we can all take for granted when someone has given their own opinion. What we don't know is what don't you agree with and why.

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A fundamental difference in how I see nearly everything you commented on. It's useless to bicker back and forth about something like that, hence why I don't care to go into extensive details which you will just ignore because of how you fundamentally see things.

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Originally Posted by Ogden Park

LOL, someone is actually using the mid-00's Pistons as an example of why we are doing it WRONG?

Good lord.


I've seen a ton of poor arguments bashing Demps' strategy. Never thought I'd see one that bad. Kudos.

People will really twist ANYTHING to fit their narrative.


So Detroit builds a championship team by signing and trading for young, well paid veterans, and only drafting one by them (at 23rd no less), and that is somehow the opposite of what we are doing? Yeah Demps should really look into that...oh wait.

Lol, maaaan.

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Billups -- signed after having one season while bouncing around the league with the celtics, raptors, nuggets, magic, and timberwolves. He was by all accounts considered a huge risk and a potential draft bust with only one good season. I can kinda see this one as a Tyreke signing if you want to stretch your imagination.

Hamilton -- traded for using their all-star, Jerry Stackhouse.

Tayshaun -- drafted

Rasheed Wallace -- valid, they traded for a veteran who was getting paid like it.

Ben Wallace -- traded for, in a sign-and-trade when Grant Hill was a FA.

The point is simply this -- you have to get guys who outplay their contracts. The Pistons found Tayshaun, Rip, and Ben Wallace using their own highly valued assets. Billups was a huge risk that turned out well. We need to find our guys who fill those roles. Because filling those roles with high-priced vets has never worked for a small market.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I guess we will have to wait and see. I love the Spurs, but we've seen so many different ways of going about it, it's hard to say which is the "best" for any franchise. Who's to say Dell isn't completely ahead of the curve and in 5 years every team won't be going for the "young vet" model. We simply don't know.

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Which is cool and again I fully understand it's my opinion.

I just don't see how we keep a fringe playoff team together with 6 guys making the salary we are handing out. It just seem so obviously unsustainable I'm surprise my points are so heavy scrutinized.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

We haven't developed players? So getting Roberts, Ajinca, and Babbitt from Europe and showing they are all NBA talent was nothing? We haven't seen AD, Rivers, Withey, or Morrow improve? Morrow wasn't on a cheap contract? That's why he opted out amirite? Ryno isn't on a great contract, one where he is underpaid for his performance? Why would we even have to wait until next summer to offer Asik a contract?

You're entire, extremely negative post is built around nothing but false placed opinions and illogical assumptions.

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On what championship team would those guys ever see a single minute and play any type of important role? I'm talking about developing a Chandler Parsons, or a Klay Thompson. If Ajinca, Babbitt, Withey, Rivers or Roberts ever see any minutes in an NBA Finals, call me. While other teams are busy developing core pieces of their team, that's who we're developing? Does that not bother you?


I hate the fact that I'm having to argue against my own team, but some realism is needed here. We're not a championship team. We haven't even been in a playoff race.

I can see what this front office is doing -- it's leveraging the fact that Anthony Davis is on it's rookie contract. The logic is that since he's already a top 10 player and the biggest difference in his on-court value to contract value is now, then do everything you can do to win it all now. The problem with this is that it will cripple our ability to surround him with players in the coming years and there's absolutely no proof that we're any type of contenders.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

A fundamental difference in how I see nearly everything you commented on. It's useless to bicker back and forth about something like that, hence why I don't care to go into extensive details which you will just ignore because of how you fundamentally see things.

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Again which is cool.

However I do take one exception to the comment about me ignoring your details. I haven't ignored anyone every bit of information I get here gets processed. Just because I don't agree doesn't mean it gets ignored. Saying that I conveniently ignore all opposing opinions is disrespectful to all the intelligent people who have helped me become a smarter fan of the sport and this team since I've been on PR.com.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Which is cool and again I fully understand it's my opinion.

I just don't see how we keep a fringe playoff team together with 6 guys making the salary we are handing out. It just seem so obviously unsustainable I'm surprise my points are so heavy scrutinized.

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If I had to guess it has to do with your estimate that we are a fringe playoff team. We have no idea what this team is like healthy. Also, many of us have AD becoming an MVP candidate. When that happens, we are a deep run playoff team. I don't see how a top 3-5 player plus our surrounding cast don't make a run.

But again, that is a fundamental difference I was talking about.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Again which is cool.

However I do take one exception to the comment about me ignoring your details. I haven't ignored anyone every bit of information I get here gets processed. Just because I don't agree doesn't mean it gets ignored. Saying that I conveniently ignore all opposing opinions is disrespectful to all the intelligent people who have helped me become a smarter fan of the sport and this team since I've been on PR.com.

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Ignored in the sense that it won't change your opinion. Which means I see it as a waste of time at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Primetime

On what championship team would those guys ever see a single minute and play any type of important role? I'm talking about developing a Chandler Parsons, or a Klay Thompson. If Ajinca, Babbitt, Withey, Rivers or Roberts ever see any minutes in an NBA Finals, call me. While other teams are busy developing core pieces of their team, that's who we're developing? Does that not bother you?


I hate the fact that I'm having to argue against my own team, but some realism is needed here. We're not a championship team. We haven't even been in a playoff race.

I can see what this front office is doing -- it's leveraging the fact that Anthony Davis is on it's rookie contract. The logic is that since he's already a top 10 player and the biggest difference in his on-court value to contract value is now, then do everything you can do to win it all now. The problem with this is that it will cripple our ability to surround him with players in the coming years and there's absolutely no proof that we're any type of contenders.

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First, where did I say this was a championship team? At best I've said we don't know what this team is and it's only if AD makes a jump that we can make a deep playoff run. We are leveraging the future on AD because if AD doesn't develop, we are hopeless anyway. You take your shot with a guy like AD and hope for the best.

You are claiming we aren't developing a core. We have Ryno, Jrue, Reke, and now Asik we will be developing. My point is, given Monty's track record of developing players it's horribly close minded to assume none of our better pieces will develop under him when we've been able to turn nobody's into deserving NBA role players.

No. The logic isn't to leverage AD to "win-now". It's to surround him with the best players possible and then get him playoff experience with a good core. It's also not crippling anything, As player's contracts come to an end you have the ability to move them as expirings for better fitting pieces or resign them if they are already great fits. You see what we are doing as trying to win now. I see it as trying to handle AD as best as possible.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

If I had to guess it has to do with your estimate that we are a fringe playoff team. We have no idea what this team is like healthy. Also, many of us have AD becoming an MVP candidate. When that happens, we are a deep run playoff team. I don't see how a top 3-5 player plus our surrounding cast don't make a run.

But again, that is a fundamental difference I was talking about.

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I think we have some idea what teams are on paper. Sure occasionally PHX surprises you, or ATL overachieves but given the landscape of the WC and our team I don't think saying we are a fringe playoff team isn't far off the consensus and certainly not an insult.

As far as Davis goes I would hope people would be realistic. Even if you thought at some point in his career he'll be the best player would not expect him to be a MVP candidate in the next year or two. And even if he does next year still doesn't mean we are making a deep run. The West is far to deep to make any kind of prediction like that. The Clippers have two MVP candidate worthy players and barely made it out of the 1st round this playoffs and got knock out the 2nd round.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Ignored in the sense that it won't change your opinion. Which means I see it as a waste of time at the moment.

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So you don't mean ignore at all? Considering ignoring and disagreeing are two completely independent concepts. It's ok to say you used the wrong term. I do it all the time.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

So you don't mean ignore at all? Considering ignoring and disagreeing are two completely independent concepts. It's ok to say you used the wrong term. I do it all the time.

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I used the term I meant.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I used the term I meant.

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Or hold on to your mistake not changing in the face of overwhelming evidence. Either way.:hihi:

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Or hold on to your mistake not changing in the face of overwhelming evidence. Either way.:hihi:

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That must be it!

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

That must be it!

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It's funny because it one of those things I'm accused of all the time.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

It's funny because it one of those things I'm accused of all the time.

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That must be because it's true. Obviously.

Attachment 5603

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

That must be because it's true. Obviously.

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