2022-23 Offseason Thread

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Originally Posted by PleaseWinPels

He's 19, 7'1, and shoots 40% from 3.

He might be a buck 70 soaking wet but there's only a few human beings at that height who can shoot like he can. Good use of the 2way. He's got serious potential if he can put on weight.

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Role player at best right?

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

Role player at best right?

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Who knows? He's only 19, far from a finished product.

He needs to put on serious weight however. He makes Chet look muscular. I genuinely don't understand how he's alive at 7'1 175. Dudes a walking skeleton.

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

Role player at best right?

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Probably. Likely somewhere between Austin Daye and Channing Frye, but more relevant because of the modern focus on having as much shooting as possible. But can't hurt to take a flyer and see if he blows up.

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Originally Posted by Nola3

Probably. Likely somewhere between Austin Daye and Channing Frye, but more relevant because of the modern focus on having as much shooting as possible. But can't hurt to take a flyer and see if he blows up.

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Can't hurt is right.
Fun fact about Butler: only 4 freshmen had more than 30 blocks and 30 three-pointers last season.

- Paolo Banchero (No. 1 pick)
- Chet Holmgren (No. 2 pick)
- Jabari Smith (No. 3 pick)
- John Butler (Undrafted)

The potential is real.

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Originally Posted by PleaseWinPels

Can't hurt is right.
Fun fact about Butler: only 4 freshmen had more than 30 blocks and 30 three-pointers last season.

- Paolo Banchero (No. 1 pick)
- Chet Holmgren (No. 2 pick)
- Jabari Smith (No. 3 pick)
- John Butler (Undrafted)

The potential is real.

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Did not know that. I don't see much defensive upside at all in the NBA though, and his lack of lateral quickness and strength doesn't really bode well for being much more than a spot up shooter on the other end. But I was still excited when we grabbed him for summer league because who doesn't want a 7 foot spot up shooter? And I would be thrilled to be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Nola3

Did not know that. I don't see much defensive upside at all in the NBA though, and his lack of lateral quickness and strength doesn't really bode well for being much more than a spot up shooter on the other end. But I was still excited when we grabbed him for summer league because who doesn't want a 7 foot spot up shooter? And I would be thrilled to be wrong.

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IMO his lateral agility is pretty good when combined with his length. He had some really solid moments defensively last year guarding 1-4, (held his own vs Paolo and had a few blocks) especially when you think he's only 19. Strength though? Absolutely too weak to play in the NBA.

I think he's shown flashes of putting the ball on the floor, especially for a 7fter. One dribble pull-up potential looks solid at the least.

Yeah, Butler seems like a classic guy you want to get in your program for a longer look. No guarantee he develops but he’s got some attributes that are hard to find. A season In Birmingham with pro coaching, fitness and nutrition banging with NBA sized dudes and see how he responds. In some ways his defensive potential seems further along. He has good feet for a 7 footer…

Butler got bad advice. Should have stayed in college and worked on his body. He is worth taking a gamble on to see if the staff can help him develop his body. He is at least a couple years away, but exactly what the 2-way is meant to be used for.

Is he good at rebounding?

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Originally Posted by coreylaron

Is he good at rebounding?

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Who Butler? Hell naw. He might be 7'1 but he's 175lbs.

Jose Alvarado weighs more than Butler.

Shoot the 3 and be a weakside shot blocker. That's it. Focusing on those two things and you'll be an NBA player. If Butler focuses on becoming an NBA role player, than I am very excited for him

Its gonna be interesting, because they like Plowden too. So many young dudes they wanna keep in the organization, as they know they are going to have to get cheap with spots 11-15 on the roster moving forward. If any of these guys hit, and you get them for 3-4 years on a min like Jose, it allows them to be aggressive when going out and getting that final piece when they think they are ready.

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Originally Posted by PleaseWinPels

Who Butler? Hell naw. He might be 7'1 but he's 175lbs.

Jose Alvarado weighs more than Butler.

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Yikes

Todays poll

Fast forward to the 2023 NBA draft. Would you trade every tradeable pick the Pels have ( including Lakers and Bucks) to move to to number 2?

— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) October 5, 2022

You can offer the 1st and 2nd picks in this draft twelve first rounders and they wouldn’t trade the picks.

Just gotta hope those guys go out East.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

You can offer the 1st and 2nd picks in this draft twelve first rounders and they wouldn?t trade the picks.

Just gotta hope those guys go out East.

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Or we can hope the Lakers completely implode and win one of the first 2 spots in the lottery.

Won’t happen, but I understand the allure of hope. Go for it

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Originally Posted by Spec3333

Or we can hope the Lakers completely implode and win one of the first 2 spots in the lottery.

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It’s quite possible. All it takes is an injury to AD or James for significant time missed for them to be in the running for those picks. Even with ok health there’s a decent change they don’t make the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Won’t happen, but I understand the allure of hope. Go for it

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Probably not, but I would be you would have said the same thing last year about getting the 8th (or a chance at something better) in last year's draft from the Lakers.

One serious injury to Lebron or AD and there is a very good chance we end up with a top-5 pick. Maybe even top-2. Think about it. Lebron misses 50 games. You think AD is dragging that roster to the play-in in the West? Same if AD goes down. Lebron is fantastic, but not a miracle-worker.

With the way the lottery odds have been smoothed, we could DEFINITELY end up with a top-2 pick

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Originally Posted by donato

It?s quite possible. All it takes is an injury to AD or James for significant time missed for them to be in the running for those picks. Even with ok health there?s a decent change they don?t make the playoffs.

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That's the thing though. It's hard to imagine a world where the Lakers miss the play-ins without a significant injury to AD or Bron. Heck maybe even both.

I can't see them finishing with a worse record than the Rockets, OKC, Spurs, Jazz, Magic, Pistons, Pacers, or Wizards. All of which will be tanking by mid season and the Lakers have 0 reason to tank since we own their pick.

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Originally Posted by PleaseWinPels

That's the thing though. It's hard to imagine a world where the Lakers miss the play-ins without a significant injury to AD or Bron. Heck maybe even both.

I can't see them finishing with a worse record than the Rockets, OKC, Spurs, Jazz, Magic, Pistons, Pacers, or Wizards. All of which will be tanking by mid season and the Lakers have 0 reason to tank since we own their pick.

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Even making the play-in doesn't eliminate the possibility of their pick conveying to #1 or #2. There's a pretty realistic/identifiable risk of AD and/or Lebron missing significant time given history, age. Nobody is expecting the pick to end up #1 or #2.

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Originally Posted by PleaseWinPels

That's the thing though. It's hard to imagine a world where the Lakers miss the play-ins without a significant injury to AD or Bron. Heck maybe even both.

I can't see them finishing with a worse record than the Rockets, OKC, Spurs, Jazz, Magic, Pistons, Pacers, or Wizards. All of which will be tanking by mid season and the Lakers have 0 reason to tank since we own their pick.

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Sure, there is a chance they play 70+ games each. But their supporting cast sucks monkeyballs. This result wouldn't shock me:

1. GSW
2. Nuggets
3. Phoenix
4. Pelicans
5. Clippers
6. Grizz
7. T-wolves
8. Dallas
9. Blazers
10. Kings
11. Lakers

Also, maybe they catch the #10 seed and lose the play-in game. Lostsa variables. It is all great fun to think about.

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Originally Posted by Spec3333

Or we can hope the Lakers completely implode and win one of the first 2 spots in the lottery.

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Any of the first 5 spots, honestly. Obviously we know Victor and Scoot are 1 and 2, but either of the Thompson twins or Cam Whitmore is extremely tantalising. Hell, even Dariq Whitehead looks to be a top shelf #6 pick. It's a good looking top of the draft.

That tall French thing is pretty good. Durant but even taller?

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

That tall French thing is pretty good. Durant but even taller?

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Ho You Fat?

Da hell did you call me!?

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Da hell did you call me!?

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Victor's teammate, Steeve Ho You Fat

Attachment 6640

https://sports.yahoo.com/the-remarka...003851784.html

Pelicans sign E.J. Liddell to a two-way contracthttps://t.co/Bx3etQd6qI

— New Orleans Pelicans (@PelicansNBA) October 16, 2022

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Pelicans sign E.J. Liddell to a two-way contracthttps://t.co/Bx3etQd6qI

— New Orleans Pelicans (@PelicansNBA) October 16, 2022

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I'm still a little annoyed about his injury and not being on the main roster (neither would play much but I'd rather have him for insurance than Temple or Naji, for example) but I'm glad we're keeping him in store. Hope his recovery is going well. I had him as a first round talent and am still an optimist

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'm still a little annoyed about his injury and not being on the main roster (neither would play much but I'd rather have him for insurance than Temple or Naji, for example) but I'm glad we're keeping him in store. Hope his recovery is going well. I had him as a first round talent and am still an optimist

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Two way contracts don't last the whole year though

This smells like a 2 for 1 trade is coming to open up a spot for him

Doing some more reading, you can only 'spend' 45 days with the team under a 2 way, whatever to spend actually means.

I guess that does mean one can stay on a 2 way the whole year

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Two way contracts don't last the whole year though

This smells like a 2 for 1 trade is coming to open up a spot for him

Doing some more reading, you can only 'spend' 45 days with the team under a 2 way, whatever to spend actually means.

I guess that does mean one can stay on a 2 way the whole year

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Yeah, to my knowledge a 2 way does last the whole year, it just limits the time you can spend 'with' the team. So you can only, for example, play so many games with the team if they want you to actually play, and only be at so many practices.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Yeah, to my knowledge a 2 way does last the whole year, it just limits the time you can spend 'with' the team. So you can only, for example, play so many games with the team if they want you to actually play, and only be at so many practices.

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I thought there was a deadline to signing a player to a 2-way (maybe mid-Jan), and teams could waive a player and sign another one before then. Those rules may have changed. Maybe MM can clarify.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Two way contracts don't last the whole year though

This smells like a 2 for 1 trade is coming to open up a spot for him

Doing some more reading, you can only 'spend' 45 days with the team under a 2 way, whatever to spend actually means.

I guess that does mean one can stay on a 2 way the whole year

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With EJ, it has always been the same. The plan is to give him a deal similar to what they did for Jose - whenever a roster spot opens up, whether that be an uneven trade or just waiving someone in March, and then using part of the MLE to sign EJ. There is not some big thing going on right now that this is foreshadowing. Same as it was months ago

E.J. Liddell's Two-Way contract with the New Orleans Pelicans is for two years, a league source tells @spotrac.

— Keith Smith (@KeithSmithNBA) October 17, 2022

Something to be said for the culture that Griff has built and the trust that he’s generated with both players and agents around the league

The Portland Trail Blazers plan to sign former Florida State product John Butler on a two-way NBA contract, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. The 7-foot-1 big man spent summer league and preseason with the Pelicans and now lands a roster spot.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

The Portland Trail Blazers plan to sign former Florida State product John Butler on a two-way NBA contract, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. The 7-foot-1 big man spent summer league and preseason with the Pelicans and now lands a roster spot.

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Griff got a little too cute with that one and hoped nobody else would like Butler, but in the end he lost him and effectively chose Seabaron over him. Could very easily see Butler do nothing this year and Pels land him next year. But they really liked him and are a little bummed they lost him today

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Griff got a little too cute with that one and hoped nobody else would like Butler, but in the end he lost him and effectively chose Seabaron over him. Could very easily see Butler do nothing this year and Pels land him next year. But they really liked him and are a little bummed they lost him today

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They ********ed around and found out. Can't believe we decided to keep Seabron over him.

Seabron is a terrible fit and has no future on this team.

I get the logic. Best case scenario Butler is what, 2 or 3 years away from being a regular season rotation player. Maybe 4-5 from a playoff player, if he ever gets there (unlikely)

Meanwhile, the Pels already are loaded with young players and have a bunch more coming down the pipeline. Might get another top 10 pick this year and that guy wouldnt even be able to crack the rotation, let alone John Butler

Meanwhile, there is a world in which Seabron might provide a boost in Feb/March/April a la Jose last year. Not a high chance, but a chance. No chance Butler was contributing anything for years

Team feels good they will be able to make a 2 for 1, possibly even a 3 for 1 trade in season. Hayes and Temple the most likely to go, with Devonte coming in 3rd. They want to land a more impactful guy on an expiring, without giving up a 1st, and thats where its hard with Devonte. But they dont think it would take much to return him to a net neutral

But assuming they can't and its Temple, Hayes, and a 2nd, you are looking at guys in the 9-11 mil range because they want to stay out of the tax, and also use part of the MLE to sign EJ.

So, guys like Terrance Ross, Alec Burks, Poeltl. Nobody that I would say is a sure fire playoff rotation guy, unless one or two from current rotation get hurt. But maybe a guy to give you something specific in a specific playoff matchup. Like a Josh Richardson can give you an extra body to throw at Luka

The one kinda wild one they have thrown around internally is Jonathan Issac, if the cost gets low enough. Like, if you could get him for Hayes, Graham, Temple and a protected 1st, do you take the swing? Or is he kind of redundant with Hayes and Trey defensively, and worse than them offensively? His contract is actually very easy to get out of as soon as next year. But if he hits, he is locked in for a few more years at a cheap cost. Again, if the cost gets cheap enough, it is worth discussing as kind of a swiss army knife off the bench that continues to make you an even longer, more versitile team

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

The one kinda wild one they have thrown around internally is Jonathan Issac, if the cost gets low enough. Like, if you could get him for Hayes, Graham, Temple and a protected 1st, do you take the swing? Or is he kind of redundant with Hayes and Trey defensively, and worse than them offensively? His contract is actually very easy to get out of as soon as next year. But if he hits, he is locked in for a few more years at a cheap cost. Again, if the cost gets cheap enough, it is worth discussing as kind of a swiss army knife off the bench that continues to make you an even longer, more versitile team

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Would be difficult for me to imagine a guy whose presence on the team would tank my enthusiasm more.

I liked him so much better before I heard him speak. But whatever. As long as he's a basketball player first and commits to that wholesale, I'm good.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Would be difficult for me to imagine a guy whose presence on the team would tank my enthusiasm more.

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Word, this is where we have to factor in basketball players being people and not 2k characters. Isaac in the locker room will cause some disturbance. How much? Not sure but I don't believe it's worth it.

Is he a bad teammate? I mean I'm sure he proselytizes lot but I would put the number of agnostics or atheists on most NBA teams as quite low. Wouldn't go out drinking or partying either. But I wouldn't either if I were an NBA player.

Seabron was infinitely more impressive than Butler all preseason

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Team feels good they will be able to make a 2 for 1, possibly even a 3 for 1 trade in season. Hayes and Temple the most likely to go, with Devonte coming in 3rd. They want to land a more impactful guy on an expiring, without giving up a 1st, and thats where its hard with Devonte. But they dont think it would take much to return him to a net neutral

But assuming they can't and its Temple, Hayes, and a 2nd, you are looking at guys in the 9-11 mil range because they want to stay out of the tax, and also use part of the MLE to sign EJ.

So, guys like Terrance Ross, Alec Burks, Poeltl. Nobody that I would say is a sure fire playoff rotation guy, unless one or two from current rotation get hurt. But maybe a guy to give you something specific in a specific playoff matchup. Like a Josh Richardson can give you an extra body to throw at Luka

The one kinda wild one they have thrown around internally is Jonathan Issac, if the cost gets low enough. Like, if you could get him for Hayes, Graham, Temple and a protected 1st, do you take the swing? Or is he kind of redundant with Hayes and Trey defensively, and worse than them offensively? His contract is actually very easy to get out of as soon as next year. But if he hits, he is locked in for a few more years at a cheap cost. Again, if the cost gets cheap enough, it is worth discussing as kind of a swiss army knife off the bench that continues to make you an even longer, more versitile team

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If Isaac has the highest home run potential, I’d go for it. Treat it similar to how I would the first 10 in the draft. Difference would be I’m taking the current roster into consideration, and more length and defense raises our ceiling.

Obviously the thing with Isaac is whether he has matured off the floor. I do think we have the type of locker room at this point to take him in, similar to Golden State and Wiggins. If he has matured, then he's your finishing 5 of the future imo. If you can get him for DG, Jax, GT, and a protected first, then you do it with the quickness.

We'd have to stomach the nonsense from a few years ago, but this is a guy who was Robert Williams before Robert Williams, and he shot 34% from 3, and he could guard on the perimeter. The guy was averaging 3.9 stocks per game before the injury, but of course he has not played basketball in basically three years.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Seabron was infinitely more impressive than Butler all preseason

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Do not see any future for Seabron. His whole game is speed and much of it is out of control. Players like him are a dime a dozen.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Do not see any future for Seabron. His whole game is speed and much of it is out of control. Players like him are a dime a dozen.

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Players with his speed and ability to get to the basket are definitely not a dime a dozen

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Players with his speed and ability to get to the basket are definitely not a dime a dozen

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Ones who cannot shoot a lick are. He does not have much of a game and will find out he cannot regularly get to the basket in the NBA like he did against the competition in college.