AD trade scenarios...

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

You described a hypothetical. The problem is, that there is no evidence to support that this actually happens. It's just your hypothetical scenario... and none of the actual numbers support that this actually happens. Did you seriously just go back and scout Rubio tape from 7 years ago?? I doubt it. Lonzo has a better eFG% than Rubio did his first two years. So even though Lonzo is literally a better shooter, you're telling me the defense reacted differently to Rubio based off 1 or 2 more hypothetical drives to the basket than Lonzo??? This is ridiculous. I'd rather you just say you love Spaniards and never got BBB shoes that you ordered. That would be more respectable.

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You don't understand basketball. I'm not wasting any more time on you.

I’d rather persist with Payton than take a chance on Ball tbh (for a lot of reasons). One in particular is that Elfrid has the potential to be a shooter down the line. Ball hasn’t really shown me anything to suggest he will get much better soon if at all. Another is that Payton will certainly command a lot less money and is an almost perfect fit next to Jrue. Ball will bring defense, but his FT percentage is utterly abysmal and will hamper the offense quite a bit. Also, is he worth the baggage? I don’t think so. If we exchange Ball for another pick in a 3 team deal and land Garland, then I can maybe get on board with an LA trade. I don’t fancy trying to build around him.

I don't understand why people care about Elfrid Payton at all right now. We have much MUCH bigger fish to fry first. Payton is like 5th on my list of concerns right now. Right Ahead of what socks I will wear tomorrow and right behind if Randle opts out or not.

Payton moves the needle like 5%. Anyone thinking we live or die by whether we get Payton back or not, just stop. Let's see what we actually get back for AD first. Let's see what free agents are available. Let's see what trade options we have. We'll get to Payton but he is insignificant to our overall goal right now.

I say all that to say, I prefer Payton to Lonzo.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I don't understand why people care about Elfrid Payton at all right now. We have much MUCH bigger fish to fry first. Payton is like 5th on my list of concerns right now. Right Ahead of what socks I will wear tomorrow and right behind if Randle opts out or not.

Payton moves the needle like 5%. Anyone thinking we live or die by whether we get Payton back or not, just stop. Let's see what we actually get back for AD first. Let's see what free agents are available. Let's see what trade options we have. We'll get to Payton but he is insignificant to our overall goal right now.

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I don't think anyone is talking about Payton for Payton's sake. They're discussing whether Lonzo is worth being such a focus when Payton provides 80% of what Lonzo does while being cheaper and easier to attain. It's all in reference to Lonzo, not just discussing Payton because they care so much about Payton.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I don't understand why people care about Elfrid Payton at all right now. We have much MUCH bigger fish to fry first. Payton is like 5th on my list of concerns right now. Right Ahead of what socks I will wear tomorrow and right behind if Randle opts out or not.

Payton moves the needle like 5%. Anyone thinking we live or die by whether we get Payton back or not, just stop. Let's see what we actually get back for AD first. Let's see what free agents are available. Let's see what trade options we have. We'll get to Payton but he is insignificant to our overall goal right now.

I say all that to say, I prefer Payton to Lonzo.

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Payton is a solid PG that will sign for a reasonable contract. So, yes he is worth discussing and re-signing.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

Payton is a solid PG that will sign for a reasonable contract. So, yes he is worth discussing and re-signing.

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Yes he is worth discussing... EVENTUALLY. But anyone caring about what happens to Payton right now needs to get their priorities straight. Whether Payton signs with us or not will not make or break this team. Screwing up the AD trade could.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I don't think anyone is talking about Payton for Payton's sake. They're discussing whether Lonzo is worth being such a focus when Payton provides 80% of what Lonzo does while being cheaper and easier to attain. It's all in reference to Lonzo, not just discussing Payton because they care so much about Payton.

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While I agree in that context Payton has been brought up multiple times with people wanting to sign him. I assume because he's a Nola guy. But really he's not worth even worrying about with the current things we have going on.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Yes he is worth discussing... EVENTUALLY. But anyone caring about what happens to Payton right now needs to get their priorities straight. Whether Payton signs with us or not will not make or break this team. Screwing up the AD trade could.

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As Pelicandae said, I was using Payton as a point of reference. I’m ambivalent about re-signing him as it all depends on what we bring in. As for Ball, he will have to really work on his shot to be worth the contract he will receive. And if he doesn’t learn to shoot, you have to build around him with shooters and sacrifice other roles in the team. It probably won’t be an ideal situation for Zion either.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

You don't understand basketball. I'm not wasting any more time on you.

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I’m a rugby fan.

I never played HS or AAU Ball, haven’t been watching NBA/College/HS for over 30 years, didn’t watch family play for 5 pro teams for a decade. Nope.

I’m just a rugby fan (maybe a Lakers fan too), here all day to antagonize you. That I agree with most of the non-Pelicans analysis of Lonzo Ball and I’m probably on the side of the league wide majority is just a coincidence.

Alvin Gentry is also a rugby fan.

I'm in the camp that we are drafting a PG in 2020 and 2021. So, this whole PG debate seems fruitless. I feel like our starting point guard of the future isn't playing in the NBA at the moment. I rather use Jrue as a stopgap and save long term salary.


So, lol at Payton, Simmons, Rubio, and Ball.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

I'm in the camp that we are drafting a PG in 2020 and 2021. So, this whole PG debate seems fruitless. I feel like our starting point guard of the future isn't playing in the NBA at the moment. I rather use Jrue as a stopgap and save long term salary.


So, lol at Payton, Simmons, Rubio, and Ball.

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This draft is extremely shallow in guards.

There's Morant, who is the best option clearly, but after that I'm not a huge fan of Garland or White, and you have to wait a little while under people like Ponds start cropping up. Next year seems to be a lot heavier on the guards. Obviously we're still a full year out so there's no knowing who will actually have the best year, but the mock drafts for 2020 generally seem to have RJ Hampton, Theo Maledon, Nico Mannion and Scottie Lewis who are all guard prospects within the top 20.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

I'm in the camp that we are drafting a PG in 2020 and 2021. So, this whole PG debate seems fruitless. I feel like our starting point guard of the future isn't playing in the NBA at the moment. I rather use Jrue as a stopgap and save long term salary.


So, lol at Payton, Simmons, Rubio, and Ball.

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PG is the deepest position in the league, and a bunch of highly projected folks are coming into the league next year (and this year).

Part of the issue with Pelicans in the past is that they were always looking for a PG. I’d rather have Ball/DSJ/Dinwiddie and still draft a PG in the next 1-3 years if a good one is available.

Between the 4 teams in the conf finals, there were at least 7 good PGs that needed to play well. The team with only 1 good PG got swept.

Throw a big contract at deangelo russel, trade for Robinson, Knox, the 3 pick and the grizzlies pick.

DLo
Jrue
Barrett
Zion
Robinson

And that Memphis pick will yield a very good player next year

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Throw a big contract at deangelo russel, trade for Robinson, Knox, the 3 pick and the grizzlies pick.

DLo
Jrue
Barrett
Zion
Robinson

And that Memphis pick will yield a very good player next year

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Is there a shooter involved, anywhere?

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

I’m a rugby fan.

I never played HS or AAU Ball, haven’t been watching NBA/College/HS for over 30 years, didn’t watch family play for 5 pro teams for a decade. Nope.

I’m just a rugby fan (maybe a Lakers fan too), here all day to antagonize you. That I agree with most of the non-Pelicans analysis of Lonzo Ball and I’m probably on the side of the league wide majority is just a coincidence.

Alvin Gentry is also a rugby fan.

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Rugby fan myself....i used to play hook in the college days

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

You described a hypothetical. The problem is, that there is no evidence to support that this actually happens. It's just your hypothetical scenario... and none of the actual numbers support that this actually happens. Did you seriously just go back and scout Rubio tape from 7 years ago?? I doubt it. Lonzo has a better eFG% than Rubio did his first two years. So even though Lonzo is literally a better shooter, you're telling me the defense reacted differently to Rubio based off 1 or 2 more hypothetical drives to the basket than Lonzo??? This is ridiculous. I'd rather you just say you love Spaniards and never got BBB shoes that you ordered. That would be more respectable.

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And who doesn’t love Spaniard?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Is there a shooter involved, anywhere?

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I see more space In Harry Potter's broom closet.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

I see more space In Harry Potter's broom closet.

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That's why I think any NYC trade NEEDS Trier in it. Low volume, but 39.4% three point shooter in his rookie year. That's important. It's also why I think if we're heading into FA trying to pick players up, they should be guys who can shoot: Bogdanovic, Brogdon, etc.

I might check this out to try and increase my understanding of basketball...

�� NEW ORLEANS ��

FREE Camp ��
Free Pizza ��
Free T-shirts ��
Just Enjoy it ��#EnesKanterFoundation ��

�� https://t.co/uHXUIt3o9B pic.twitter.com/CU1gss4m4l

— Enes Kanter (@Enes_Kanter) June 7, 2019

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I don't understand why people care about Elfrid Payton at all right now. We have much MUCH bigger fish to fry first. Payton is like 5th on my list of concerns right now. Right Ahead of what socks I will wear tomorrow and right behind if Randle opts out or not.

Payton moves the needle like 5%. Anyone thinking we live or die by whether we get Payton back or not, just stop. Let's see what we actually get back for AD first. Let's see what free agents are available. Let's see what trade options we have. We'll get to Payton but he is insignificant to our overall goal right now.

I say all that to say, I prefer Payton to Lonzo.

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*smashes glass bottle on the ground

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I don't think anyone is talking about Payton for Payton's sake. They're discussing whether Lonzo is worth being such a focus when Payton provides 80% of what Lonzo does while being cheaper and easier to attain. It's all in reference to Lonzo, not just discussing Payton because they care so much about Payton.

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*smashes second glass bottle on the ground


Payton should be signing #1 (if we can't get Kemba).

The idea that Davis will simply walk to the Lakers in a year should be a bluff every team should call.

For the Lakers to have cap again next year, they once again need to sign a bunch of one year deals. Can they afford to punt on another season with LeBron? Will AD want to go?

— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) June 7, 2019

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Is there a shooter involved, anywhere?

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No pure shooters but it isn’t trash shooters either, DLo shot 37% from 3 this year and is a career 36%, jrue is also a career 36% 3 point shooter and I believe Barrett’s 3 will develop. Is it sharp shooters? No, but jrue and DLo can certainly shoot good enough from 3 to keeps teams honest and space for Zion

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

That's why I think any NYC trade NEEDS Trier in it. Low volume, but 39.4% three point shooter in his rookie year. That's important. It's also why I think if we're heading into FA trying to pick players up, they should be guys who can shoot: Bogdanovic, Brogdon, etc.

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Don’t want bogdonavic because I don’t want anyone older than 29, rather young guys with potential to grow with Zion, I don’t really Caden if we suck next year, we could develop some good players and get another good pick and then really build, I love Brogdon tho

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Don’t want bogdonavic because I don’t want anyone older than 29, rather young guys with potential to grow with Zion, I don’t really Caden if we suck next year, we could develop some good players and get another good pick and then really build, I love Brogdon tho

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Bogdanovic is way older than we would want long term, but just signing him for a year or two to provide spacing while we set up the longer term pieces wouldn't be a terribl e idea, I think. Think about how Philly gave Reddick that absurd contract despite his age jsut so that Simmons and Embiid could have the space.

NBA source (who I trust a lot) told me tonight he thinks Boston is landing spot for Anthony Davis.

Says Tatum is player NOLA covets most.

Tatum, Smart (who @PelicansNBA also really like), filler (Williams, Ojeyele or Yabusele) & at least pick #14 this year.

I. Love. It! pic.twitter.com/7Rd1taJYJJ

— Fletcher Mackel (@FletcherWDSU) June 7, 2019

Trust Fletch however much you want. I'd recommend a grain of salt, but still.

I don't have much trust on Fletch. But the Celtics are still a team I like very much. Jayson Tatum is still the best asset to acquire in any deal aside from Ja Morant, which I see lower odds than we had when we got Zion to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

NBA source (who I trust a lot) told me tonight he thinks Boston is landing spot for Anthony Davis.

Says Tatum is player NOLA covets most.

Tatum, Smart (who @PelicansNBA also really like), filler (Williams, Ojeyele or Yabusele) & at least pick #14 this year.

I. Love. It! pic.twitter.com/7Rd1taJYJJ

— Fletcher Mackel (@FletcherWDSU) June 7, 2019

Trust Fletch however much you want. I'd recommend a grain of salt, but still.

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I love Tatum, swap smart for brown and include the Memphis 1st and sign me up

Tatum really would be the perfect piece, he’s a guy that can give you 18-7-3 whole shooting over 40% from 3, 48% from the field and 85% from the stripe AND great defense while only being 21?? Irving greatly hurt his progress, Tatum will be a 22-8-4 guy while shooting extremely high percentages, spacing the floor, and playing good D. Really couldn’t ask for a better piece to go along with Zion.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

NBA source (who I trust a lot) told me tonight he thinks Boston is landing spot for Anthony Davis.

Says Tatum is player NOLA covets most.

Tatum, Smart (who @PelicansNBA also really like), filler (Williams, Ojeyele or Yabusele) & at least pick #14 this year.

I. Love. It! pic.twitter.com/7Rd1taJYJJ

— Fletcher Mackel (@FletcherWDSU) June 7, 2019

Trust Fletch however much you want. I'd recommend a grain of salt, but still.

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That trade is weak if at least the Memphis 2020 pick is not included in addition to what is already mentioned.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I love Tatum, swap smart for brown and include the Memphis 1st and sign me up

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This, although the backcourt defense would be insane with Jrue and Smart.

I agree with that much. He says ''at least pick #14''. Well, to me, that better turn into ''picks #14, #20, and the Memphis 2021''.

I like a Smart/Jrue backcourt. Tatum is great. Williams would be someone I’d like as filler. Could grab a good player at 14. I’d want the Memphis pick too, but I don’t have to have it. I never thought Ainge would offer, but if he has, it’s the best package Pels could get.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

I like a Smart/Jrue backcourt. Tatum is great. Williams would be someone I’d like as filler. Could grab a good player at 14. I’d want the Memphis pick too, but I don’t have to have it. I never thought Ainge would offer, but if he has, it’s the best package Pels could get.

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I still don’t think he offers this deal. It’s Fletcher Mackel we are talking about.

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Originally Posted by P_B_&_G

This, although the backcourt defense would be insane with Jrue and Smart.

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Smart is a good defender but don’t be fooled Brown is an outstanding defender himself

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I agree with that much. He says ''at least pick #14''. Well, to me, that better turn into ''picks #14, #20, and the Memphis 2021''.

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I would say yes to Tatum, brown or smart, pick 14, Memphis pick next year, would push for pick 20 this year but would still say yes if they said no, but they aren’t gonna say no because you’re not gonna risk not getting AD over pick 20

If I were a betting man, I wouldn't bet on Boston and Tatum. But if it happened it would be the happiest wrong guess I've ever had. And five years from now, we really could be looking back realizing the Memphis 1st was the greatest asset being dangled in front of us. Depending on FA, that team could absolutely bomb.

And it would be a speculative guess.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I agree with that much. He says ''at least pick #14''. Well, to me, that better turn into ''picks #14, #20, and the Memphis 2021''.

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You prefer brown or smart? Brown for me, better shooter

You get #14, you either get Bol Bol or Chuma Okeke. Bol Bol is the bigger risk, but a guy of his size who can shoot with a legit stroke would be extremely lethal. Okeke is much safer option, is also a very capable shooter (39% in both years in college) and has a great defensive upside.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

You prefer brown or smart? Brown for me, better shooter

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I do prefer Brown, but I like Smart a lot. Obviously in a perfect world you get both, but that's not happening.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

You get #14, you either get Bol Bol or Chuma Okeke. Bol Bol is the bigger risk, but a guy of his size who can shoot with a legit stroke would be extremely lethal. Okeke is much safer option, is also a very capable shooter (39% in both years in college) and has a great defensive upside.

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I honestly like Sekou at 14 if he makes it there

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I honestly like Sekou at 14 if he makes it there

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Sekou, imo of course, is going top 10. And I don't think he's a clear favourite over Okeke, even at 14.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

I still don’t think he offers this deal. It’s Fletcher Mackel we are talking about.

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Right. And what Fletcher said is that a source “thinks” the Pels like Tatum a lot and therefor the deal will be with Boston. I’m leaning towards a source absolutely told fletcher this, but folks are overlooking the part that this is just what some dude thinks, not even what a source has heard or been told. This is a 2nd hand gut feeling.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Right. And what Fletcher said is that a source “thinks” the Pels like Tatum a lot and therefor the deal will be with Boston. I’m leaning towards a source absolutely told fletcher this, but folks are overlooking the part that this is just what some dude thinks, not even what a source has heard or been told. This is a 2nd hand gut feeling.

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The way it is worded makes it sound like his "source" thinks he will end up in Boston because Tatum is the player NOLA covets most. Not that he thinks Tatum is the player NOLA covets most. I do not put a whole lot of trust in Fletcher and his sources, but we will see. We will probably hear 5-6 different teams in the next two weeks.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

*smashes glass bottle on the ground



*smashes second glass bottle on the ground


Payton should be signing #1 (if we can't get Kemba).

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Lol. I knew someone on this forum had made comments about wanting to resign Payton and they'd fight over it. I just couldn't remember who.

Now excuse me while I go remove the glass shards from me.

I really hope it is the Celtics. And I personally want Tatum, Smart, Brown, picks this year and the coveted Memphis pick.

In any case, I do not want him to be traded to the Lakers. If he lands there, let him choose to walk next summer. Our interest should be what is best for the Pelicans organization. Let Davis and Rich Paul figure it out when he is no longer our issue to deal with.

Source: #Knicks confident they're getting free agency meeting with Kawhi Leonard at the least https://t.co/Vtv2RYfEDl via @nypostsports

— Marc Berman (@NYPost_Berman) June 6, 2019

And New York might not care too much if Kyrie goes to Brooklyn...

Edit: you think if NYC legit think they have a chance at Kawhi, Raptors get worried and offer us Siakam and Anunoby for AD, in a bid to keep Kawhi? They've taken flight risks before (Kawhi).

I think we will have a really badass team soon. I really think Zion is being underestimated. I have so much confidence in him. He’s incredible and he’s going to figure it out and put it together. Such a high character kid. We might have a legend on our team and not realize it.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

I think we will have a really badass team soon. I really think Zion is being underestimated. I have so much confidence in him. He’s incredible and he’s going to figure it out and put it together. Such a high character kid. We might have a legend on our team and not realize it.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I realise it.

I have put out my prediction for his upside at Charles Barkley on offense and Draymond Green on defense, both at the same time. I've seen him described as (in terms of athleticism) the perfect halfway point between Shaq and prime D Rose, and that's totally true (although his biomechanics are a lot better than Rose's).

I don't think I'm the only one either: I'm pretty sure many people on this board totally agree that Zion could be a legit all time great.

I wonder if Ainge would send signals that Celtics are still at the negotiating table as a solid for his old buddy Griff. Even if Ainge doesn’t want to trade off pieces for an AD rental, beyond just doing Griff a favor, doesn’t it behoove the Celtics to force either of the other teams in their division (Knicks/Nets) to give up more assets in an AD trade? And certainly given Lakers/Celtics rivalry, I could see Ainge publicly indicating Celtics are still interested just to drive the price up.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

I wonder if Ainge would send signals that Celtics are still at the negotiating table as a solid for his old buddy Griff. Even if Ainge doesn’t want to trade off pieces for an AD rental, beyond just doing Griff a favor, doesn’t it behoove the Celtics to force either of the other teams in their division (Knicks/Nets) to give up more assets in an AD trade? And certainly given Lakers/Celtics rivalry, I could see Ainge publicly indicating Celtics are still interested just to drive the price up.

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Definitely a possibility.