Pelicans finalizing trade for Asik

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PrimeTimeWhoDat

I guess some people would be happy with:

C: Robin Lopez
PF: AD
SF: Aminu
SG: Gordon
PG:Vasquez
6th: Ryno

I don't get what makes people upset about making moves to freaking WIN!!! Some of y'all act like this is New York, Chicago, or Los Angeles, and we can have our pick of what free agent we want at the price they are supposedly "worth"?

I never thought I would see the day where this team would be making the moves they have/will make to actually try and WIN the last 3 years! I thought after CP3 this team may become this generation's BAD Clippers!

It started when we hit the lottery and added a potential super star to build around. We stole Ryno from Orlando. We hoped we had one of the top young, upcoming shooting guards in the league in Eric Gordon, but that didn't work out. BUT we didn't let that knock us off our vision to do whatever it takes to put a winning team around our future star, AD. We made a really good trade for a player that has made an all star team in Jrue Holiday for essentially 2 guys that looking at them don't make me all that upset really. We got one of the best young free agents available last summer IMO to come HERE to play in Tyreke Evans. Then it sounds like we will be making a move for a top center in the league, that I would of traded Ryno for last year by the way, for a future 1st rounder that could end up being worse than one of these guys that went tonight in the middle of the 1st round(in what was supposed to be the best draft since 05 this time last year)! I may have left out some moves, but this post is big enough...LMAO

I would much rather this team all day, every day:

C: Asik
F: AD
G: Reke
G: Gordon
G: Jrue
6th: Ryno

---

True.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

My thing is you cant just say - This makes us a sure fire champion. All you can give yourself is a chance. The Pels can do that with this foundation, especially if they replace Gordon with a better fit. All you can do. No way you can create a sure fire lock champion. Just give yourself a shot

---

you can say whatever u want

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pantazis76

I betcha you didnt know that Tiago Splitter has a contract of 9.3million.... Did they just win a championship?

---

This is because Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili all took pay cuts and Leonard is on his rookie deal.

ok so question, demos is talking about finalizing a trade he can't talk about, is it this trade or something else in the works?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HornetGuru

ok so question, demos is talking about finalizing a trade he can't talk about, is it this trade or something else in the works?

---

I'd imagine it is the Asik trade.

Just out of interest though.
If the team can't shed the salary because they don't want to get rid of Anderson or Rivers and planned on trading EG, does the trade just get rejected by the NBA?

Also how long does free agency last?
I read somewhere we will have to wait until July 10 to find out about the Asik trade.

idk the answer to ur question but i have a feeling it's a different trade, one that will net us a SF and clear salary for Asik. If it isn't, it has to come eventually, I'm sure Dell didn't make a trade for Asik and hope he could make room, he had the 2 deals in place all along. Either gerald green, harrison barnes, or draymond green and a future first for ryno, just my opinion though, i could be totally wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

I'd imagine it is the Asik trade.

Just out of interest though.
If the team can't shed the salary because they don't want to get rid of Anderson or Rivers and planned on trading EG, does the trade just get rejected by the NBA?

Also how long does free agency last?
I read somewhere we will have to wait until July 10 to find out about the Asik trade.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HornetGuru

idk the answer to ur question but i have a feeling it's a different trade, one that will net us a SF and clear salary for Asik. If it isn't, it has to come eventually, I'm sure Dell didn't make a trade for Asik and hope he could make room, he had the 2 deals in place all along. Either gerald green, harrison barnes, or draymond green and a future first for ryno, just my opinion though, i could be totally wrong.

---

Ah, someone who also foresees the Eric Gordon/Gerald Green swap. Smart man you are. As a matter of fact, I'd go ahead and send off Ryan Anderson too for some more bench depth. Andray Blatche and Channing Frye are free agents. That gives us a good big rotation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rezburna

Ah, someone who also foresees the Eric Gordon/Gerald Green swap. Smart man you are. As a matter of fact, I'd go ahead and send off Ryan Anderson too for some more bench depth. Andray Blatche and Channing Frye are free agents. That gives us a good big rotation.

---

i'd rather not swap ryno for bench players though, we need a starting caliber SF

Jrue/Russ
Tyreke/Gordon/Rivers
Green/Miller/Babitt
AD/Smith/Ely
Asik/Withey/Ajinca

we could use some PF depth if we trade Ryno but i'd be 100% fine with that guy being Jason Smith. I think Ryno needs to be dealt for a starting SF though so just for fun i'll pretend we traded Ryno for Gerald Green and a future 1st or draymond green and a 1st.

Regardless I could get down with this team

Also can't we use Ely as a trade piece because he's like a 3 mil expiring?

Also if we keep Ryno, with jrue and tyreke on the perimeter and Asik and AD protecting the rim I think we could certainly get away with Ryno getting major minutes at SF in a good zone scheme, either a 1-3-1 or 3-2. I could see Dell envision having asik, ryno and AD on the floor together a lot. Plus u could possibly hide Ryno's perimeter defense on a player with a limited offensive game, a player like kyle korver or jj reddick who can only shoot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HornetGuru

i'd rather not swap ryno for bench players though, we need a starting caliber SF

Jrue/Russ
Tyreke/Gordon/Rivers
Green/Miller/Babitt
AD/Smith/Ely
Asik/Withey/Ajinca

we could use some PF depth if we trade Ryno but i'd be 100% fine with that guy being Jason Smith. I think Ryno needs to be dealt for a starting SF though so just for fun i'll pretend we traded Ryno for Gerald Green and a future 1st or draymond green and a 1st.

Regardless I could get down with this team

Also can't we use Ely as a trade piece because he's like a 3 mil expiring?

Also if we keep Ryno, with jrue and tyreke on the perimeter and Asik and AD protecting the rim I think we could certainly get away with Ryno getting major minutes at SF in a good zone scheme, either a 1-3-1 or 3-2. I could see Dell envision having asik, ryno and AD on the floor together a lot. Plus u could possibly hide Ryno's perimeter defense on a player with a limited offensive game, a player like kyle korver or jj reddick who can only shoot.

---

Ely is more like 1.3M

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pantazis76

I betcha you didnt know that Tiago Splitter has a contract of 9.3million.... Did they just win a championship?

---

The Spurs are the worst team to bring into this from your side. Their players were practically all developed by them.

Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, Leonard --- every one of them drafted by the San Antonio Spurs. The more think I about what we're doing, the more I hate it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Primetime

The Spurs are the worst team to bring into this from your side. Their players were practically all developed by them.

Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, Leonard --- every one of them drafted by the San Antonio Spurs. The more think I about what we're doing, the more I hate it.

---

Because we are going about it differently than the 1 and only team who over the past decade has won a title following their talent acquisition pattern?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Because we are going about it differently than the 1 and only team who over the past decade has won a title following their talent acquisition pattern?

---

Bar, it won't matter. Oklahoma City has a similar model and when all of their players were poised to make a long term run at a championship, Harden had to be traded because they couldn't afford Russ/KD/Ibaka AND Harden. Cleveland has had THREE #1 picks in 4 years and haven't even made the playoffs. Chicago had Rose/Deng/Noah and haven't made the Finals. Indiana with George & Hibbert the same. Washington seems to be on the cusp of building a solid roster, but do we really consider them a championship team yet? My point is, it is VERY difficult to win in the NBA regardless of the method you take to acquire talent. Lastly, the method the Pelicans are attempting APPEARS to be a directive from the owner, who, you know, signs the checks!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Because we are going about it differently than the 1 and only team who over the past decade has won a title following their talent acquisition pattern?

---

I hate it because it's the easy way out. Winning a championship is really f'n difficult. As you noted yourself, only 1 team in the past decade has won it this way.

I just don't think a small market team can win a championship by trading picks for sought after veteran players. I don't think it's possible. In order to win a championship as a small market, your front office has to hit a home run in the scouting department. And then the coaches need to develop those said 'home runs'. It doesn't necessarily have to be via the draft, the Pistons did it via acquisitions. But you need to find the right guys and develop them.

What we are doing is taking the easy way out. What our front office is saying is that draft picks are risky and your chance of finding a player isn't very good. And they're right. But the chances of a small market team winning a championship isn't very good either --- and it's directly tied to the fact that hitting on a lottery pick isn't good at all. But if it's a championship a small market wants, it needs to do it the hard way -- by recognizing talent and developing it. It's what separates championship front offices from the others.

The Pistons and Spurs are the last 2 smaller market champions. What do they have in common? They never chased the sought after guys. In fact, the Pistons traded away the sought after player (Jerry Stackhouse) and turned it into Rip Hamilton. They trusted in their front offices and drafted & developed over-looked players (Tayshuan & Ben Wallace). We have one over-looked player on this roster in Ryan Anderson and he's getting throw into deals.

I'll end this post with this: it's really hard to win a championship. You have to have a championship front office. And that means discovering players and drafting wisely. Every small market champion has done so. We won't be any different.

A lot of the guys on that Piston team were traded for and/or signed in FA. Their best player wasn't even drafted by them.

The spurs have done it their way and produced well. Go look at their draft picks tho. Most of the time they miss. They keep the players because of sustained success and stability and that's the reason they are good. They keep players around. Feel free to post their draft picks for last 6-8 years. Mostly misses with a couple of very good hits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I posted a few weeks ago how the Spurs have drafted since adding the last member of their Big 3 (Parker). All but 2 of those drafts netted them a solid bench guy, and when you have a big 3 like they have that is all you really need.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...SAS/draft.html

If any other team had taken those guys maybe they don't develop right. Maybe their talents are miscast. There are a million and one things that could have taken those guys out of the NBA before their time...or maybe not. Had the rest of the NBA known about these players like the Spurs did these guys would have all gone higher and the Spurs never would have been able to land them where they did. This is a testament not just to Pops (who we all recognize as one of the GOAT's), but their GM (R. C. Buford) is a GOAT as well. He is hitting more often than he should (where he is drafting). Some of his signings and trades are things of beauty as he is ahead of the curve on players declines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._C._Buford

We can try as hard as we want to be the Spurs (and we should), but we haven't shown we can replicate what they are doing.

In fact, I just checked. Only Prince was drafted by them.

Chauncey joined them in his sixth year.
Rip in his third.
Sheed in his ninth.
Wallace in his fourth.

e: I re-read your post and misunderstood you. You never said they were drafted, but were 'acquisitions'. Still, how is that different than us trading like they did? Or were there trades somehow better? If so, how?

And even Buford can goof big time. Every move relating to Richard Jefferson was just awful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kibner

In fact, I just checked. Only Prince was drafted by them.

Chauncey joined them in his sixth year.- Was considered a bust up until the season prior. He wasn't the Chauncey we all know until he got to the Pistons.
Rip in his third.- Nothing special until he got to the Pistons.
Sheed in his ninth- A cancer and a troublemaker.
Wallace in his fourth- A throw away player in the Grant Hill trade

---

Proof that one can be a wanderer, but (as has happened so many times in sports), when you get the right collection of guys together, and they play for each other, they can do anything they damn well want.

I love moves that Dell does. Everyone predicts mid level or vet min contacts and then he pulls off the spectacular. not sure what he's going to do next bit I reckon he'll make something happen to get rid of Gordon

There's really only been 3 times in the last 25 years where players have moved basically via free agency and the results were the league looking at a sustaining title core over night. 1st was O'Neal to the Lakers, then not again till Garnett and Allen to the Celtics and lastly James and Bosh to the Heat. Winning titles are hard and that goes double for non glamour teams.

I think the new owner friendly CBA is going to make it just that much harder for non glamour teams to compete for titles let alone win them. The original 3 with the Spurs all took less than market value to keep their title hopes going a few more years. The Heat will have to follow suit if they want to keep their championship window open. Which gives superstars another huge advantage. LeBron and Wade(to a lesser extent Bosh) can afford to leave money on the table because they make so much more through other avenues. Those other ventures are increased by the market size they play in thus creating greater benefits to larger markets.

In the future there's likely to be a lot more flux in teams. I think the greatest chance non glamour teams will have is drafting as early and as often as possible in a small period of time maybe 3 -5years. Getting these guys signed early avoiding RFA and than letting those players gel using the additional cap space to fill in when the team is a few pieces away. Going out and paying for a team full of young vets IMO is unsustainable. Because by the time a team gels enough to beat a team like the Heat guys will leave for the one big pay day left while they are in their primes. The only two ways I think the young vet model can work under this new CBA is if as a team we have just enough success that guys chose to stick around with a very minimal pay increase (if they get a pay increase at all). Or we are insanely successful and we win it all are in the WCF the next 2 out of 3 years. The last one seems almost impossible when I survey this team versus what's in the West right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kibner

In fact, I just checked. Only Prince was drafted by them.

Chauncey joined them in his sixth year.
Rip in his third.
Sheed in his ninth.
Wallace in his fourth.

e: I re-read your post and misunderstood you. You never said they were drafted, but were 'acquisitions'. Still, how is that different than us trading like they did? Or were there trades somehow better? If so, how?

---

Because they got their guys on the cheap. I don't care if the Pelicans do this via FA, but you can't grab guys with double digit million dollar contracts and expect to win a championship in a small market. This team has shown a complete inability to develop players. We currently have not a single guy on this roster who is on a cheap contract outside of AD, and who has shown the potential to be a huge contributor for us going forward. Think about that --- not a single guy. We were in a rebuild just one year ago.

And moreover -- because we won't want to look like idiots, we'll be forced to match any offer for Omer Asik next summer. So pretty much a very similar situation as Gordon a couple years ago where no matter what, we have to match. Not matching next summer means you're the GM who traded away a 1st round draft pick for nothing. I sincerely hope Asik has already agreed to an extension and that's what the hold up is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Primetime

Because they got their guys on the cheap. I don't care if the Pelicans do this via FA, but you can't grab guys with double digit million dollar contracts and expect to win a championship in a small market. This team has shown a complete inability to develop players. We currently have not a single guy on this roster who is on a cheap contract outside of AD, and who has shown the potential to be a huge contributor for us going forward. Think about that --- not a single guy. We were in a rebuild just one year ago.

And moreover -- because we won't want to look like idiots, we'll be forced to match any offer for Omer Asik next summer. So pretty much a very similar situation as Gordon a couple years ago where no matter what, we have to match. Not matching next summer means you're the GM who traded away a 1st round draft pick for nothing. I sincerely hope Asik has already agreed to an extension and that's what the hold up is.

---

We haven't developed players? So getting Roberts, Ajinca, and Babbitt from Europe and showing they are all NBA talent was nothing? We haven't seen AD, Rivers, Withey, or Morrow improve? Morrow wasn't on a cheap contract? That's why he opted out amirite? Ryno isn't on a great contract, one where he is underpaid for his performance? Why would we even have to wait until next summer to offer Asik a contract?

You're entire, extremely negative post is built around nothing but false placed opinions and illogical assumptions.

LOL, someone is actually using the mid-00's Pistons as an example of why we are doing it WRONG?

Good lord.


I've seen a ton of poor arguments bashing Demps' strategy. Never thought I'd see one that bad. Kudos.

People will really twist ANYTHING to fit their narrative.


So Detroit builds a championship team by signing and trading for young, well paid veterans, and only drafting one by them (at 23rd no less), and that is somehow the opposite of what we are doing? Yeah Demps should really look into that...oh wait.

Lol, maaaan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mythrol

We haven't developed players? So getting Roberts, Ajinca, and Babbitt from Europe and showing they are all NBA talent was nothing? We haven't seen AD, Rivers, Withey, or Morrow improve? Morrow wasn't on a cheap contract? That's why he opted out amirite? Ryno isn't on a great contract, one where he is underpaid for his performance? Why would we even have to wait until next summer to offer Asik a contract?

You're entire, extremely negative post is built around nothing but false placed opinions and illogical assumptions.

---

I guess it depends on how you define develop. Has Robert, Ajinca, or Babbitt shown that they are anything more than rotational players on a non playoff team? Technically Morrow isn't under contract anymore. Again I'm assuming he means a main contributor on a cheap contract. There will always be a player on cheap contracts on every team.

Also where's the cap space going to come from to offer Asik this extension?