Draft Prospects Discussion

Brandon Ingram, SF, Duke 6-10 196
Jamal Murray, PG, Kentucky 6-5, 207
Ben Simmons, PF, LSU 6-10, 239
Kriss Dunn, PG, Providence 6-4, 220
Buddy Hield, SG, Oklahoma 6-4, 208
Jakob Poeltl, C, Utah 7-0, 248
Dragan Bender, PF, Croatia 7-1, 216
Henry Ellenson, PF, Marquette 6-10, 228
Jaylen Brown, SF, California 6-7, 225
Lulawu, SF, 6-7

If we had 1 or 2 I wouldn't trade but after that if we trade down I'd take any of these at 9 or 10 not in this order and be ok.

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Originally Posted by tdcreator

The way I see it our first pick will start if we pick a SG or SF. I guess because I'd like Lulawu I figured we could go down a few spots and still get him then with the additional pick late grab Bacon. We'd let them battle to see who starts. Watching the tournament I can see a few players falling that we may want at 6. This would all depend on where we pick and who goes before we pick.

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My thinking is, what's better than hoping that one of your 3 draft picks hit? Wanting one of your 4 draft picks to hit. Having more picks assures you that your chances of finding a successful player are greater (duh).

After Simmons and Ingram, the talent is pretty homogenous, meaning that some people can have a guy rated as a lottery pick, but he won't be drafted til middle of the first (see Danny Granger, or soon to be Denzel Valentine). Every lottery player has warts that could push them out of the lottery by the time of the draft. The year we drafted AD and Rivers I remember debating that trading back that Rivers pick would be a smart play as lottery picks don't (percentage wise) don't fair a whole lot better than guys picked later in round one. My sample size was the 10 years prior, and having the 10 spot was no better than having 10<, so we really wouldn't miss out on much.

I think this is a deep draft, and you can get some very solid talent later on. So unless we get that #1 or #2 spot, keep an eye on anyone looking to move up, because if we are looking to find our next superstar, our chances are just as good finding him outside of the lottery picks as they are with one of the lottery picks.

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Originally Posted by durun

If Dell is GM, he will draft center from Utah. The Pels need interior defense and Ryno's replacement. My other guesses are Dunn or Jackson. Dell won't draft a shooting guard.

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Sure we have Asik and Ajinca, but I wouldn't be upset with this at all. Poeltl has shows he can bang, but that he is also athletic enough to keep up with the style we want. He isn't some gazel, or some Deandre Jordan type, but he has a very good all around game. He is also thick enough to absorb contact otherwise meant for AD.

Your chances are not better finding a star outside the lottery. Adding more picks of guys with lesser talent does not give you better chances. Give me the chance at guys who are the better prospects to pan out then hoping a couple of my picks in the late 1st round turn out to be great. Because a few guys outside the lottery each year turn out good does not mean it is the rule. Trading back would be a mistake and I'm pretty confident that no way it happens. Only 3 teams have multiple 1st round picks anyway so the chances are very slim. If having extra picks is so valuable why would they trade them? For a reason because lottery picks are with more.

What are your guys' general thoughts on Bryce Johnson? I'm biased as a UNC fan, but I'm interesting in hearing where you guys think he might go in the draft. The dude has freakish athleticism and can block shots like nobody's business. He's been a double double machine all season long.

I invite you to go back and review the last ten drafts. You will see your likelihood of hitting (in the picks between the lottery and the 2nd) on a long term success are much higher (% wise).Sure you have all stars in the lottery, but just because you aren't a lottery pick doesn't mean your career is damned. Stock up on picks, (if the option is available) and assure yourself of successful player.

Go look at all the drafts and see how much better the lottery picks have been. You are always going to have hits in the draft but the lottery picks have been far better. Just because their have been some success does not mean it is a good idea to trade back and it's not. I think the front office personnel agrees with me as well. How many times do we see trade backs? Yea never that's what i thought and there is a reason for that.

How many times are teams in the lottery considered to be well run teams?

Doesn't matter how well run you think they are. They are in the position of GM for a reason and they don't trade back for a reason. I think they know a little more then we do no matter how badly you think they run teams. This isn't the NFL where trading back can pay off big. Very unlikely trading back in the NBA will pay off and likely give you two guys that can even be good bench players. Your chances are much higher of landing a starter by picking in the lottery. When the rare occasion a trade back happens it's usually for a player thrown in while only moving a few slots. Tell me why no GM ever trades back? I'll wait...

Since 2006, who has traded back (on draft day)? I assume you are asking for teams in the lottery.
2006- Portland, Chicago, Houston, Philly
2007- Boston, Charlotte
2008- Minny, Indiana
2009- Washington, Boston
2010- New Orleans
2011- Bobcats, Kings, Bucks
2012- on draft night none, prior to, three lottery picks changed hands.
2013- New Orleans, Wolves, Mavs
2014- Magic, Chicago
2015- None

So yes, lottery picks don't get traded, except for when they are. I'm not saying we have to do it, but it's not a bad idea for hedging our bets on landing a quality player.

These are not all trade backs. 90% of those are trades and have nothing to do with what you are talking about. I already told you yea players are traded for picks but you don't see people trading out of the lottery for other 1st round picks. Completely different but if that makes you happier to be right with something completely different then what we are talking about go ahead. Don't think the Pels have traded back from the lottery for extra 1st round picks and according to this list we have twice. You are specifically talking about trading back from the lottery to get extra picks. It doesn't happen.

Besides one being a Canadian and the other from Florida, what is the difference between Grayson Allen and Murray. They are the same size, both are sharp shooters, one can be had later in the draft while one is a lottery pick. I don't watch much of either, but so far in the tourney it is hard to tell who the lottery pick is, and who isn't.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

These are not all trade backs. 90% of those are trades and have nothing to do with what you are talking about. I already told you yea players are traded for picks but you don't see people trading out of the lottery for other 1st round picks. Completely different but if that makes you happier to be right with something completely different then what we are talking about go ahead. Don't think the Pels have traded back from the lottery for extra 1st round picks and according to this list we have twice. You are specifically talking about trading back from the lottery to get extra picks. It doesn't happen.

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2010 we traded Mo Pete and Cole for Brackins and QPon.
2013 you are right, we traded our first for Jrue (not a pick), but both the Wolves and Mavs traded lottery picks for multiple first rounders. Also in that draft the Nuggets traded Rudy Gobert for a bag of chips.

Man Providence had no players outside of Dunn and there SF

So like I said more then 90% of those trades you mentioned were not a lottery team trading back for more picks. It rarely ever happens and there is a good reason for that.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

So like I said more then 90% of those trades you mentioned were not a lottery team trading back for more picks. It rarely ever happens and there is a good reason for that.

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I'm highly dubious of your math skills. First you tell me we signed a guy who averaged a triple double, when his stats were 10/9/9 (or whatever they are), and now you are saying 90% of the trades I listed aren't falling within your set of parameters, when I just showed you that 2/3 (or 2/19 for the sake of argument) were exactly within the parameters (10.5%, meaning 89% at most could be wrong). I'm not sure if it's the financial analyst in me, or just the 8th grade math I had to go to summer school for, but homeboy, you need math.

Go through those 19 trades (I spotted you 3) and tell me how many fall outside the parameters.

We don't need to fight over it, it's just something I'm hoping for. GMs make weird decisions and teams like Denver and Boston can't use all their picks or they have to cut quite a few of their players. If I'm Toronto (need a PF) and I want Ellerson, I think I try to trade up to guarantee I get him. Who knows what Denver needs or wants to do.

Watching UNC and Providence and I like Dunn. I just wish he wasn't coming off a few injuries. He reminds me a little of Jrue.

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Originally Posted by tdcreator

We don't need to fight over it, it's just something I'm hoping for. GMs make weird decisions and teams like Denver and Boston can't use all their picks or they have to cut quite a few of their players. If I'm Toronto (need a PF) and I want Ellerson, I think I try to trade up to guarantee I get him. Who knows what Denver needs or wants to do.

Watching UNC and Providence and I like Dunn. I just wish he wasn't coming off a few injuries. He reminds me a little of Jrue.

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Him coming off of injuries should remind you a lot of Jrue.:D

Dunn is ridiculously talented. I'd take him 3 at the moment. Although I know admittedly little about Bender. I doubt he drops past 5 in the draft unless his shoulder doesn't check out (it should). He forced some bad passes tonight, but his teammates weren't exactly getting open. His shot improved over the season and his form looks good.

A Dunn Jrue backcourt would do wonders for our defense and I wouldn't mind them sharing point-guard duties.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Him coming off of injuries should remind you a lot of Jrue.:D

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Touchet. Lol

You go through the 19 trades. You have to go back 10+ years to find maybe a handful of trades that fit under what you were talking about in the 1st place. You listed a bunch of trades that have nothing to do with what we were talking about. We were talking about moving a lottery pick to acquire more picks in that draft. Not move a lottery pick for a player on a team or anything else. You will try to use anything and twist it to fit your arguement which has been called out a few times here. Just like saying he didn't average a triple double when it's 16/9/9. Cool of it makes you feel better once again to be right by .4 go ahead and make that arguement. I think it was pretty clear how I was stating the guy which I said multiple times had a "near" triple double average. You try to be witty and twist things but it just comes off as poor arguments being the board goofball.

I was called out by people to lazy to do their own research. I even spotted you the facts. These trades indeed take place. If you want to prove that I am wrong YOU do the research. Why you got to be all obtuse?

10/10/10 is a triple double, 2/4/3 isn't, and neither is 16/9.4/9.4. To say it is would cheapen what Oscar Robertson did.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

It was called out by people to lazy to do their own research. I even spotted you the facts. These trades indeed take place. If you want to prove that I am wrong YOU do the research. Why you got to be all obtuse?

10/10/10 is a triple double, 2/4/3 isn't, and neither is 16/9.4/9.4. To say it is would cheapen what Oscar Robertson did.

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How many of the 19 trades you posted were mid lottery picks being traded for later picks? Because that's the only ones that have any relevancy here.


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Lol like I said go read where I said near triple double everytime except one post. That one post is enough for you to try and jump in to be right lol. No you listed a bunch of teams that made trades no teams that traded back from the lottery for extra picks which was what the discussion was about. So keep twisting things to fit your arguement as long as it makes you feel better I'm fine.

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Originally Posted by pmarpelicansfan

How many of the 19 trades you posted were mid lottery picks being traded for later picks? Because that's the only ones that have any relevancy here.


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Just about everyone was later picks moved or picks traded for players. Lottery picks are so rarely traded back for extra picks and with those teams listed less then a handful of them did just that.