2024 Offseason Thread

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Trey is a good player but do you guys see him making all-stars? He's two years younger than BI. It's not like he's 21 and has five years to eclipse Brandon's level. Brandon Ingram made an all-star at a younger age than TMIII currently is. BI's floor, is above Trey's ceiling. BI had a bad run for Team USA....Trey ain't sniffing Team USA. A team not wanting to resign an all-star player because a good starting quality player will be up for an extension soon is.....we gotta reign it in some.

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Agree with all this. I love Trey, but he's being overrated.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

There's a lot of hyperbole that gets thrown around and there's a lot of opinions that get said as facts so it's best to take everything with a grain of salt because the Pels have proven time and time again to not leak information and they play close to the vest.

There has never been a time in this franchises history where it was wise to go into the luxury tax. Every time we made any headway with BD, CP3, or AD the superstar would demand a trade before it got to the "push the chips all in" point.

Gayle Benson owns an NFL team. The Lakers are the only NBA team worth more than the Saints. When the team shows that it is time to go into the luxury tax, she's more than capable of doing it.

Zion is 23 years old. Pretty much the whole team other than CJ is 26 or under. That "all in" time hassn't come because it puts an expiration date on the team.

Some other areas we need to temper the hyperbole on:

Trey is a good player but do you guys see him making all-stars? He's two years younger than BI. It's not like he's 21 and has five years to eclipse Brandon's level. Brandon Ingram made an all-star at a younger age than TMIII currently is. BI's floor, is above Trey's ceiling. BI had a bad run for Team USA....Trey ain't sniffing Team USA. A team not wanting to resign an all-star player because a good starting quality player will be up for an extension soon is.....we gotta reign it in some.

The latest from Woj is the Pels want to keep BI and BI wants to stay plus Vegas has the betting lines set for him most likely to be extending with us. The current most likely outcome is that we will extend BI. Now there is a decent chance (however less likely) that negotiations breakdown and we trade him.

Now we probably need to make a trade for a Big because it won't happen in FA. Remember when we all thought the only way we could get Murray was by trading BI? What did we learn from that? Apparently nothing. It is just as likely we land a big by trading players/assets not named BI than by trading BI. The irony is that Trey is probably more tradable than BI and could very well be in packages to get us that Center.

Last hyperbole that continues to need to be tackled: BI and Zion fit very well together and the team was pretty excellent when they were healthy.

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Well I for one don't value Trey over Ingram, nor do I ever think he'll be as good. I think the arguments being made here is that he's a cheaper option, and there isn't a great disparity between the two in terms of talent/production. After Ingram's playoff performance I understand the sentiment.

I defer to the commentary here on the front office because all I've heard about it is that it's cheap and not all that concerned about how well the team does. So if I hear this team will never go over the luxury tax in this forum, I'm inclined to believe it. Basically, the owners won't pay for a championship squad. But if it lucks itself into one, then it will pay to keep it together.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I felt it was best to keep Ingram if possible since players of his caliber don't usually sign with NO in free agency. Finding a way to make it work and develop chemistry with him and Zion seemed best to me.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

There has never been a time in this franchises history where it was wise to go into the luxury tax.

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This is just subjective, honestly. If that's your opinion you're obviously welcome to it, but it is a fact that we are one of the only two NBA franchises to never go into the luxury tax. Whether you want to say that's just because we're a team of particular fiscal wisdom or not is your choice, but it remains a fact nonetheless, and assuming that they would be willing in certain circumstances is exactly that: an assumption.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

When the team shows that it is time to go into the luxury tax, she's more than capable of doing it.

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Capable is not the same as willing. I am capable of eating nothing but bread for the next month but I'm not going to do it.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Trey is a good player but do you guys see him making all-stars? He's two years younger than BI. It's not like he's 21 and has five years to eclipse Brandon's level. Brandon Ingram made an all-star at a younger age than TMIII currently is. BI's floor, is above Trey's ceiling. BI had a bad run for Team USA....Trey ain't sniffing Team USA. A team not wanting to resign an all-star player because a good starting quality player will be up for an extension soon is.....we gotta reign it in some.

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Yes, I think Trey has the potential to make all-star teams. It's true that he's only two years younger than BI but by Trey's age, BI had been in the league for 6 years, not 3; they are not in the same position relative to their age because they started at different spots. Interestingly enough, BI's single all-star appearance came in his 4th season and prior to that he was in LA being actively bad, so maybe we should quell the comparisons a little bit.

The idea that BI's floor is above Trey's ceiling is a ridiculous claim in my opinion. BI's floor is ghastly and we've all seen it. When he plays well, he's good but he's more than capable of having truly terrible stretches and anyone who has watched this team for the last 5 years knows that.

The idea that BI had a bad run on Team USA but ''Trey ain't sniffing Team USA'' is particularly funny given that BI's Team USA appearance took place on the same roster as Austin Reaves, Bobby Portis, and Walker Kessler. Unless you're going to use that as evidence that Trey isn't on the same level as Bobby Portis too, I don't think it makes quite the point you're suggesting it does.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

The latest from Woj is the Pels want to keep BI and BI wants to stay plus Vegas has the betting lines set for him most likely to be extending with us. The current most likely outcome is that we will extend BI. Now there is a decent chance (however less likely) that negotiations breakdown and we trade him.

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That's not ''the latest from Woj'', that's just everyone in the media repeating what David Griffin said at the presser following the draft, and we can't make any assumptions from it. It's entirely possible that Griffin was being honest and their primary goal is to re-sign BI, but if it wasn't his intention to re-sign BI, do you really think he would be open about it? Do you think he would be leaking to the media like, ''hey guys, tell everyone we're ditching BI''? Absolutely not. It would be horrific for his negotiating position. I mean, for God's sake, we've just had a statement from the Clippers come out telling us they've known there's been a gulf with them and PG for months and yet we were getting leaks from Woj and co as recently as 12 hours ago saying they were going to have their FA meetings in the hopes of coming to an agreement.

Public statements of organisational intent do not tell you what they actually want, they just tell you what they want you to believe. Now, is the most likely outcome that we keep BI? Yes, and everyone (even people who really want BI moved like me) has said that consistently: the reality is that it's always more likely that things stay the same than that they change because change requires co-operation from groups with mutually distinct interests. Again, this is not news.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

The irony is that Trey is probably more tradable than BI and could very well be in packages to get us that Center.

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I wonder why that would be. I thought BI's floor was higher than Trey's ceiling. Wild. Why would any team ever trade for Trey, who could never even dream of being comparable to BI on his worst day, when BI is right there? Are they all stupid?

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Last hyperbole that continues to need to be tackled: BI and Zion fit very well together and the team was pretty excellent when they were healthy.

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The team was pretty excellent when Zion was on the court regardless of who else was with him - a top 10 offense when he was on court, a bottom 6 offense when he wasn't. That's not proof that Zion and BI are a good fit, it's just proof that Zion elevates offenses. The two still do not maximise each other's skill-sets, and the clunky fit was visible to anyone who watched the two play together over the last 5 years; it was better earlier in Zion's career, because BI's shot selection was different and we ran a more dynamic offense back then, but the stylistic clashes the two have had have only grown more apparent under the slower and less creative offense of Willie Green.

What could motivate Ingram to change more than the fact that he's getting a justified pay cut, he's on the trading block, and his Instagram is flooded with comments informing him as to how much he sucks. Oh, and I forgot.. there's also the narrative that Bron traded him away from the Lakers for not being good enough. Or that the Lakers preferred Kuzma over him.

I agree with bro; some people act like Trey is some magnificent player, but y’all have rose colored glasses on . I used punctuation for trolling purposes lol.

The floor spacing Trey provides is non existent no one’s worried about the 3s he takes because he shoots them from the logo essentially taking his self out of any plays also up until current times a dumb ahh shot it looks good for highlights bad basketball in real life
His handle is sorry
For 6’10 and as a athletic guy has failed horribly in the rebounding department
His ability to facilitate for others is non existent can swing the ball which should be simple for anyone who’s ever watched basketball let alone played it and his defense is still very spotty if his shooting is off he’s basically rendered useless people love his bubbly personality over bi laid back one but I’m not buying it he’s cool to have but easily replaced in my mind
He can’t compete with Brandon and when you compare him to herb I know y’all love shooting but herb is better In literally every other facet of the game

If you made the right moves, you could still get Kessler and keep Ingram. Ideally it would be a contract that was significantly more team friendly than the max and also have incentives tied to 3 point attempts. It's not fair to do %, just shoot them for Pete's sake! Then make the right move and deal CJ. No defense and for all his offense, he loses other games by going 2-15 or whatever. Personally, I've had enough.

Yes, I'm really stuck on Kessler. He brings elite rim protection which I don't even know what that looks like from our team. Watching the Pels the last couple of years try to do anything on offense against him was depressing.

His iq for the game being the oldest good player on the team
wanting to be considered a winner could be driving factors
and him being surrounded with players and coaching that makes his job easier
Lastly just being disappointed with the way everything went this year could be motivational factors

The narrative that Brandon and Zion don’t work together is blown out of proportion by people who want you to pick a side
Some I feel are mad because he don’t want to talk to them but Trey loves talking to them if you catch my drift

Brown and Tatum
Giannis and lillard
Kyrie and Luka
George and kawhi
And plenty other tandems do not play together ( running plays that involve both in the same action )
You will be hard pressed to find me any where that’s the case outside of Murray jokic embiid maxey and fox and sabonis and honestly often times those guys are doing their own things as well

PG got paid... now maybe the dominoes will begin to fall.

So I’m guessing Ingram to the Sixers is out now.

Windhorst

Lakers and Mavs going after Klay Thompson

Maxey agrees to extension . 204 million to remain with Sixers

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...xtension-76ers

Now that the George stuff is taken care of, the league can start unlocking

— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) July 1, 2024

Yeah how does that feel

The Thunder have swapped out Josh Giddey while adding Alex Caruso and Isaiah Hartenstein.

OKC still hasn’t relinquished any of their war chest of future draft capital along the way.

A true Finals contender with the ammo to still make an all-in move later on. pic.twitter.com/i4SPDQeulm

— Evan Sidery (@esidery) July 1, 2024

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Yeah how does that feel

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This is what competency looks like. OKC has a good model for sustained success.

Call me elitist but I still don't get why ownerships want former basketball players that couldn't pass a calculus class running their teams for millions of dollars. Talent evaluation is subjective at best and an overrated aspect of being a good GM. Logic and reasoning are more important skills.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

PG got paid... now maybe the dominoes will begin to fall.

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Hopefully so. Most of the dominoes are off the board already.

We still have no C. The only true big on the roster right now is Missi. Hartenstein is off the board. Drummond is off the board. JV is off the board. Jalen Smith is off the board. Obi Toppin, Kevin Love, Mason Plumlee, Alex Len, and Richaun Holmes are all off the board.

The options in terms of FAs now are extraordinarily thin and we have to get a C from somewhere, at least one.

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Evan Sidery @esidery
The Spurs and Warriors are among the teams showing interest in trading for Lauri Markkanen, per @WindhorstESPN

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Spurs wanna win now. Lauri and Wemby at the 4 and 5 would be stupid.

Free agent C Drew Eubanks has agreed on a two-year, $10 million deal to join the Utah Jazz, sources tell ESPN. Eubanks spent the past season with the Phoenix Suns and stays in the West on the Jazz’s frontline. pic.twitter.com/5ejnjRNp7h

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) July 1, 2024

And there goes another C.

Though I would say maybe this is an indication that the Jazz legitimately are ready to move someone at that position, because right now they have Eubanks, Kessler, Colins, Hendricks, and I guess technically Lauri (more of a giant wing in playstyle, but still, 7 footer) all rostered.

Kessler might be on the outs in Utah. Although he wouldn't be an offensive fit at all he'd provide much needed rim protection. Then again if that's all he's gonna offer we might as well start Missi. Go and get Zeller off the scrap heap to back up Missi. unless we trade for a center with some offense I don't see why we should double down on defensive bigs.

We still don't have a replacement for Larry Nance either (small ball 5).

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

Then again if that's all he's gonna offer we might as well start Missi.

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I feel like that's a pretty enormous leap.

''If all this guy is going to offer is some of the league's best rim protection, we might as well start the raw prospect who has no idea what he's doing 60% of the time''.

Goga still available, I think. Pels should have him in mind.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Goga still available, I think. Pels should have him in mind.

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What would Goga bring to this team. Is he better than Cody Zeller?

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

What would Goga bring to this team. Is he better than Cody Zeller?

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93rd percentile D-EPM last year

22%DREB, 13.5%OREB

7%BLK

Shot over 70% at the rim each year in his career but one (when he was 21, and he shot 69.7% that year).

Top 10 in Off-ball playmaking talent by BBall Index's rating, 2nd in passing lane defense, 7th in deflections per 75.

Per 36 numbers of 12pts/11rbds/3asts/3blks last year. Good screener, great hands.

He's not some world-beater or anything but there aren't really many options left, and he's a good defensive centre with decent passing and finishing on the roll. Rebounds well on both ends, protects the rim.

So OKC, the number 1 freaking seed this year added Caruso and Hartenstein. Awesome.

Meanwhile, we still don't have even a starting center :help:

Free agent guard Delon Wright has agreed on a one-year, $3.3 million deal with the Milwaukee Bucks, sources tell ESPN. pic.twitter.com/vw2HsAb6NT

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) July 1, 2024

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

These reports of the Pels POSSIBLY wanting Wendell Carter made me go down a mini-rabbit hole to see what Carter's game is about. I didn't watch many Bulls games when he was in the Chi, and same for Orlando... I know who he is but my only recollection of WCJ is how he looked when he played against the Pels.

I know highlight videos are just those... the HIGHLIGHTS, but I watch how Carter moves and the decisions he makes in the offensive sets that he's in. WCJ is a decent screener and I like Orlando's sets he's put in positions to screen and roll/pop. He often finds soft spots in the defense because Orlando does a ton of screen roll/pop, and he's always ready to shoot when he gets a look as he's not shy about letting that 3 fly. He's also a solid lob threat and a good finisher.

From these HIGHLIGHTS he seems to be a solid offensive player, and these are only highlights from January of this season.



These defensive highlights are impressive, and again I know these are HIGHLIGHTS, and don't really show his shortcomings on the defensive end, but I'm looking at him get switched into iso situations on the perimeter, and he seems to be able to hold his own out there. he doesn't look like a fish out of water when he's outside guarding a smaller ballhandler. He's at least TRYING to block shots, which I like as well.



Just thought I'd share. I know I could have looked at his stats to get an idea, but I prefer to watch him play and see how he moves out there and the decisions that he makes on and off the ball. Looks like he's often-injured though, so if the Pels decide to make a move for him (and other pieces from Orlando) that's something I hope we put into consideration.

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I don't think Carter is a fit. He is not a rim protector or even a very good rebounder. He also missed a ton of games every year.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

I don't think Carter is a fit. He is not a rim protector or even a very good rebounder. He also missed a ton of games every year.

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The point about missing games is fair, but he's absolutely a solid rebounder. Has posted a DREB% of at least 22.7% every year since 2019-20; for reference, that would have been the clear second best rebounding on the Pelicans this year, after JV (who is one of the best defensive rebounders in the entire NBA, so that's no surprise).

In fact, in past seasons WCJ has even posted DREB% as high as 29%, which is actually in JV territory.

Even his OREB% isn't that far off - about 11% for JV this year, about 9.5% for WCJ. The counting stats don't show it quite so much because he just hasn't played the minutes (averaged 25mpg last year) but the rebounding is absolutely there.

Concern about rim protection is fair but then, JV never really offered that either, and WCJ offers a shooting threat that we could benefit from quite a lot.

Boston Celtics guard Derrick White has agreed on a four-year, $125.9 million contract extension, sources tell ESPN. The deal includes a player option. Huge offseason priority for the champs. pic.twitter.com/eAMo9yf7oe

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) July 1, 2024

BREAKING: The Boston Celtics majority ownership group — led by Wyc Grousbeck — is planning to make the franchise available for sale, sources tell ESPN. The investment group purchased the team in 2002. Massive development for one of sports’ most valuable properties. pic.twitter.com/ICixdcJtLF

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) July 1, 2024

Lebron should buy the Celtics without even retiring.

BREAKING: Free agent Klay Thompson plans to join the Dallas Mavericks on a three-year, $50M deal with a player option, sources tell ESPN. Thompson ends his historic Warriors run as part of a multi-team sign-and-trade that’ll also send Josh Green to Charlotte. pic.twitter.com/4GJ5hR3H5o

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) July 1, 2024

Free agent F Nic Batum has agreed on a two-year, $9.6 million deal to join the Los Angeles Clippers, sources tell ESPN. pic.twitter.com/UPSxcBt4eX

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) July 1, 2024

Free agent De'Anthony Melton plans to sign a one-year, $12.8 million deal with the Golden State Warriors, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. pic.twitter.com/LfBenYVJ7T

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) July 1, 2024

The Warriors are attempting to trade for Lauri Markkanen, per @wojespn.

Golden State is pivoting from Paul George to pushing their all-in chips in for Markkanen.

The Jazz are holding an extremely high price for Markkanen. pic.twitter.com/iwEbBT82HD

— Evan Sidery (@esidery) July 1, 2024

LeBron James is now expected to sign a max contract after the Lakers missed out on Klay Thompson, per @wojespn.

LeBron was ready to take a $20 million pay cut for Thompson. pic.twitter.com/E4jGFJkt94

— Evan Sidery (@esidery) July 1, 2024

Tons of good PR for Lebron on a pay-cut he didn't even end up taking. Masterful media work.

Pels fans, I’ve seen all your messages and they mean more to me than you know! I poured a lot of myself into the community and you guys were always so kind and supportive! New Orleans will always be a place I remember with fondness! Thank you all, for so much ❤️

— Larry Nance (@Larrydn22) July 1, 2024

All the teams on the west getting better offensively and we gonna trade one of our best offensive players for a center to play 20 minutes a game lol

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

All the teams on the west getting better offensively and we gonna trade one of our best offensive players for a center to play 20 minutes a game lol

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All these teams in the West getting better offensively and you want to go into the season with zero rim protection and zero rebounding.

Who’s attacking the paint when Everyone wants to be a 3pt shooter lol plus with herb and Murray on the perimeter if Zion and Brandon play like they did defensively last year it shouldn’t be much penetration with the length on the floor

Jarret Allen will not be our savior nor any of the other guys who’ve been mentioned how many teams have he really had that much of an impact on

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

Who’s attacking the paint when Everyone wants to be a 3pt shooter lol plus with herb and Murray on the perimeter if Zion and Brandon play like they did defensively last year it shouldn’t be much penetration with the length on the floor

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We got knocked out of the playoffs this year by a team led by SGA, one of the league leaders in drives per game, and we had one of the league's best offenses when Zion was on the court attacking the paint.

If there is any team that has no excuse for ignoring the danger of attacking the paint, it's this one.

Sga get his points regardless of who in the paint and we played them pretty good defensively we lost because our inability to get offense going we didn’t score 100 points in none of the games a rebounding center doesn’t change that much maybe a little but no much

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

Sga get his points regardless of who in the paint and we played them pretty good defensively we lost because our inability to get offense going we didn’t score 100 points in none of the games a rebounding center doesn’t change that much maybe a little but no much

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So we've gone from ''Who's attacking the paint?'' to ''yeah well, those guys who attack the paint get theirs regardless'' in the span of like 3 posts. Nice.

The Minnesota Timberwolves and Sacramento Kings are showing interest in Lauri Markkanen, per @JakeLFischer

“In addition to Golden State, Sacramento and San Antonio have been the two other teams characterized by league figures with knowledge of the situation as strong possible… pic.twitter.com/L9jK1V8ak4

— NBACentral (@TheDunkCentral) July 1, 2024

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

The Minnesota Timberwolves and Sacramento Kings are showing interest in Lauri Markkanen, per @JakeLFischer

“In addition to Golden State, Sacramento and San Antonio have been the two other teams characterized by league figures with knowledge of the situation as strong possible… pic.twitter.com/L9jK1V8ak4

— NBACentral (@TheDunkCentral) July 1, 2024

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I too would want Lauri over BI all day. To think we could have had him for Lonzo Ball…

Buddy is still a FA by the way. Wonder where he's going to end up.

Boston Celtics All-NBA star Jayson Tatum is finalizing a five-year, $314 million super maximum contract extension through the 2029-30 season, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. This is now the largest deal in NBA history. pic.twitter.com/FCAZLTmkhi

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) July 1, 2024

5 year.

$314m.

That is, average per year, just under $63m.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Pels fans, I’ve seen all your messages and they mean more to me than you know! I poured a lot of myself into the community and you guys were always so kind and supportive! New Orleans will always be a place I remember with fondness! Thank you all, for so much ❤️

— Larry Nance (@Larrydn22) July 1, 2024

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Larry thanked Pels fans before AD did.

Is that Not a fact

If Minnesota wants Lauri then KAT or Rudy is gone.