2022 NBA Draft Lottery

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

Is this new news?
I mean the Pelicans are going to have a hard time drafting this guy especially if he doesn’t work out for us, we’d have very little to go on. If his workouts went well with the teams ahead of us than they’ll probably draft him. If they pass on him we might have to take that as a warning sign.

---

Players get drafted all the time when they don't workout with teams. This was discussed pages back

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I would love if Sharpe went before us. Then Murray, Daniels, or Mathurin would fall to us. Possibly even Ivey

---

No way in hell Ivey falls to us. Too many teams trying to trade up to get him

Latest mock draft from @DraftExpress & @espn is interesting for the Pels, suggesting that the 8th pick has created "quite a bit of chatter in NBA circles" for trade purposes & mentions the Suns & Cam Johnson.https://t.co/bNvdLBIpPw

— Mason Ginsberg (@MasonGinsberg) June 21, 2022

Now this is unexpected

I would absolutely lock myself into a core of CJ, BI, Zion, Herb, Trey, Cam

Cam will need a new contract. What are you willing to pay him? Gonna be 26 next year, good shooter, solid defender, pretty average everywhere else. Basically is now what 21 yr old Trey Murphy was at the end of the year. Nothing wrong with having two Trey Murphy's, but I dont know if it makes sense to pay him 16-20 mil over paying say Sochan or Daniels 4-7 mil over the next few years.

I think Cam Johnson is the exact type player you’re looking for to really unlock this team’s full potential. I don’t think I’d be upset at all with 4/80 for Cam. You’d have to get off of DG and Temple, but you can roll out CJ, BI, Herb, Zion, JV with a second unit of Jose, Trey, Cam, Jax, Nance. All while staying out of the luxury tax and still having flexibility with JV and Hayes contracts to tinker if the fit isn’t perfect.

I don’t do it if Cam is looking for a starting role

Cam is 'fine,' but he'll also be more expensive soon and he gets cooked on defense for being slow-footed a lot. I don't get the appeal of trading away cheap young help for that...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

I think Cam Johnson is the exact type player you’re looking for to really unlock this team’s full potential. I don’t think I’d be upset at all with 4/80 for Cam. You’d have to get off of DG and Temple, but you can roll out CJ, BI, Herb, Zion, JV with a second unit of Jose, Trey, Cam, Jax, Nance. All while staying out of the luxury tax and still having flexibility with JV and Hayes contracts to tinker if the fit isn’t perfect.

---

Staying out of the luxury tax this year, sure. But that team would need to give new deals to Zion and Nance next year

CJ, BI, and Zion will be at 100 million by themselves. JV and Nance is another 25-30 mil. You give Cam that contract and just between those 6 guys, you are at 150 million. Luxury tax projects to be aroung 160 for 23/24.

Now, if they are willing to be a tax team, go for it. But if they make a trade like this only to let Nance walk in a year, never use the MLE, etc then you have to consider those things a part of the trade too.

Cam Johnson is a nice player.

I'd rather draft a guy at 8, roll with the guys we got, and re-evaluate what we need before the trade deadline. Our #8 pick will either be too good not to play, or will barely get any minutes. I don't see much depreciation. If we need to move the #8 guy at the deadline to get a piece that fits our core, go do it then.

We've not seen what CJ/BI/Herb/Zion/JV can do. I'd much prefer a wait and see approach to improving the team. And I'll readily admit that I love our squad and don't want any of them moved. But then again, I grew up a Bad Boys Pistons fan and was mad as heck when they traded Adrian Dantley for Mark Aguirre. And then they won back-to-back championships.

People are really quick to forget the role that Cam Johnson just played on a 64 win team

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Upper Decker

Cam Johnson is a nice player.

I'd rather draft a guy at 8, roll with the guys we got, and re-evaluate what we need before the trade deadline. Our #8 pick will either be too good not to play, or will barely get any minutes. I don't see much depreciation. If we need to move the #8 guy at the deadline to get a piece that fits our core, go do it then.

We've not seen what CJ/BI/Herb/Zion/JV can do. I'd much prefer a wait and see approach to improving the team. And I'll readily admit that I love our squad and don't want any of them moved. But then again, I grew up a Bad Boys Pistons fan and was mad as heck when they traded Adrian Dantley for Mark Aguirre. And then they won back-to-back championships.

---

That’s not how it works though. Depreciation is real. You’re not getting Cam Johnson at the deadline for whoever you pick at 8. And Cam comes in having been a 6th man’s for Phoenix. He should know his role on this team (if he doesn’t then I’m out). Zion driving with Cam in one corner and Trey in the other, I honestly don’t know what you do

I’d also be extremely interested in acquiring a Suns future 1st

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

People are really quick to forget the role that Cam Johnson just played on a 64 win team

---

Or...... everyone will acknowledge that he is a solid player but we all know he isnt going to be a top player. You can get 5th, 6th best players in many different ways. Pels got one at pick 35 last year. Got another one by trading down 7 spots in a draft. You dont get many chances to get All Star caliber players. And even if the Pels only have a 10-20% chance of getting that at 8, its a chance.

You have to be the best out of 30. Thats a really, really hard thing to do. You dont get there by hitting singles and doubles. This team would need another home run (or at least a triple) to become a real contender. Some people are risk adverse, and thats fine. Some people go high risk, high reward, and thats fine too.

But people arent saying no to the deal because they "forget" anything

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

That’s not how it works though. Depreciation is real. You’re not getting Cam Johnson at the deadline for whoever you pick at 8. And Cam comes in having been a 6th man’s for Phoenix. He should know his role on this team (if he doesn’t then I’m out). Zion driving with Cam in one corner and Trey in the other, I honestly don’t know what you do

---

Yeah, it kinda is. An asset is an asset. This isn't buying a new Honda Accord. And you're not getting Cam Johnson for the #8 pick before the draft either.

My main point is that Cam Johnson doesn't move the needle for me. We need to see what our core truly needs. What if Herb's 3 point shooting improves? What if the lack of a true point guard ends up being a real issue and we need to target a PG? I would be patient unless we can nab an All Star. Cam Johnson had a fantastic season shooting the 3 (42% on 5.9 attempts!!!), but I'm not sold on whether he can sustain that moving forward.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/p...ig-enough-step

Ok I seem to be in the minority here on Cam and that’s fine. I’m interested to know what type of extension he would have to agree on in order for you to make that deal. In this article, they imply a 4/60. Again, I’d do that happily because I think he further unleashes your superstars. What do you think?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/p...ig-enough-step

Ok I seem to be in the minority here on Cam and that’s fine. I’m interested to know what type of extension he would have to agree on in order for you to make that deal. In this article, they imply a 4/60. Again, I’d do that happily because I think he further unleashes your superstars. What do you think?

---

Nah. We're going to need to pay Herb soon enough. I don't think Johnson's anything special.

We need a facilitator someone who can set the halfcourt offense so we not just taking tough shots all game

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Algiersraised

We need a facilitator someone who can set the halfcourt offense so we not just taking tough shots all game

---

So now we’re going to add another ball dominant player to CJ, BI, and Zion?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/p...ig-enough-step

Ok I seem to be in the minority here on Cam and that’s fine. I’m interested to know what type of extension he would have to agree on in order for you to make that deal. In this article, they imply a 4/60. Again, I’d do that happily because I think he further unleashes your superstars. What do you think?

---

Here's the thing -- if you trade, or are willing to trade, the #8 pick for a guy, the agent now has a ton of leverage. They know you arent going to just let him walk after giving up that asset. Now, if he agrees to 4/60 as a condition of the trade, I would be interested but then as I lay out my minutes and rotation, I see that he either takes some of Murphy's minutes or he doesnt play enough minutes to have made giving up a great asset worth it. Lets play it out:

CJ - 35
BI - 35
Zion - 33
Herb - 33
JV - 29

Thats 165 out of 240 minutes just between the top 5

Now, lets say Nance and Jose win the backup big and backup guard jobs. 17 minutes a piece. That leaves you 41 minutes in the rotation. Even if you dont play anybody else and just go with a 9 man rotation (unlikely, but I am trying to be as generous as possible to the idea of adding Cam).... either you arent playing Trey enough or you arent playing Cam enough, or both.

You wouldnt give up the 8th pick for a 20 mpg player, so lets say you give him 28 off the bench. Now, you got 13 for Trey? And again, Kira isnt getting any run, or Jaxson, or Graham to try to boost any of their values/give them reps.

IMO, you cant recover the value from this trade, and if you do on the Cam end, you lose it in other places and that has to be a part of the opportunity cost

I like Cam the player. However, the contract would be the big issue. Zion's extension is going to lock us into a lot of committed contracts for a few players. We have to be smart about the non-starters. If we can get a similar player or at least close, on a rookie contract, that would be much more palatable.

I think you’re on the high end of minutes for all of those guys outside of a healthy Zion though. Regular season, I’d have:
CJ- 33
BI- 33
Zion- 31
Herb- 31
JV- 27

Outside of Herb, I think that’s around where those guys were following the CJ acquisition. That’s an addition 10 minutes for Cam and Trey

And don’t get me wrong, if Daniels or Benny are there I’m taking them. I don’t see the star potential, though, with Sochan or Dieng so that’s where I’d move for Cam. But I’d want him locked into a reasonable extension and I would need him to know his role. Obviously a ton of contingencies, but it’s the 8th pick so I need to be sure I’m getting that value

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pelafanatic

I think you’re on the high end of minutes for all of those guys outside of a healthy Zion though. Regular season, I’d have:
CJ- 33
BI- 33
Zion- 31
Herb- 31
JV- 27

Outside of Herb, I think that’s around where those guys were following the CJ acquisition. That’s an addition 10 minutes for Cam and Trey

---

I disagree, I actually thought I was low, but fine, now you are at 51 minutes. Hayes, Kira, and Graham getting DNP's. 9 man rotation, which we know isnt happening.

We would all probably agree on the level of player Cam is. You seem to think others dont like him as much of a player as you do, I think that is incorrect. What I think you arent calculating properly is the entirity of the opportunity cost. Its not just the 8th pick, which is substantial in itself.

I think Cam Johnson and Dort are around the same level and will get paid about the same money on their next deal and I wouldnt do 8 for 12 and Dort, so I just personally wouldnt even consider 8 for Cam

He already have Cam Johnson, but his name is Trey

The ONLY problem with acquiring Cam Johnson is his pending contract. It wouldn't be a problem if we didn't/don't have so many other guys coming up for new deals, but Cam is perfect for what we need. A wing that can both defend and shoot at a high level, and can also play some small ball 4. The spacing that Cam and Trey could provide for Zion and JV would be crazy, but I don't know how we pull this off financially.

As much as I'd love to get Cam here I don't see it happening... hoping for Murry or Mathurin at 8.

Yea I was not speaking to you directly. I think he’s an elite shooter that gives you some things defensively and has a budding off the dribble game that may or may not ever come to fruition. If he’s over 20 mil a year, I’m out. But I’d absolutely be willing to pay 15 per year for the shooting alone. I’d need to get off of Graham in the deal or a septa rate deal as well

I wouldn't trade the pick for Cam... i would do it for Bridges though, the thing is his new contract kicks in next season at 20mil

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PaKwAn

I wouldn't trade the pick for Cam... i would do it for Bridges though, the thing is his new contract kicks in next season at 20mil

---

I mean, no kidding. Would you trade it for Booker? Lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Algiersraised

We need a facilitator someone who can set the halfcourt offense so we not just taking tough shots all game

---

Shots fired at CJ.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I mean, no kidding. Would you trade it for Booker? Lol

---

No, i hate his face...lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HornetGuru

He already have Cam Johnson, but his name is Trey

---

I agree with this. But then then again you can't have too many shooters.

I think the contract, not the minutes, is the issue with Cam. Guys get hurt and miss games. Especially this bunch. The minutes will work themselves out. I'd rather add a young player on a rookie contract than a dude about to get PAID.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PaKwAn

No, i hate his face...lol

---

And that "Be Legendary" stuff is corny. What does that even mean? Just play good basketball, dummy.

I’m not even a we need more shooting guy because I think the numbers are skewed from pre-CJ and no Trey, but it’s not every day that a 43% shooter on high volume who’s pretty decent defensively comes available. Again, if he agrees to 4/60 or something like that prior to the trade, it’s a no brainer for me

Cam Johnson? I mean, I?d take him with zero hesitation?if the salary cap wasn?t a thing. As of now, if we?re adding a young veteran who needs a contract of significance, I want someone bigger or with more smaller player skills.

Quote:

---

Teams selecting behind the New Orleans Pelicans have painted them as a trade-down candidate, particularly with OKC at No. 12, if New Orleans officials' prioritized targets are not still on the board at No. 8. Rivals believe Dyson Daniels and Bennedict Mathurin are the Pelicans' top choices in that slot.

---

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...yn?share=other

Fischer confirming what MM has been telling us. We're gonna get Mathurin or Daniels and if they're both gone, who knows

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Upper Decker

And that "Be Legendary" stuff is corny. What does that even mean? Just play good basketball, dummy.

---

The joke flew right over your head dummy

Suns' employee to Givony / Fischer: "Man, we'd really like to get a top pick, maybe from New Orleans since Willie likes Cam. Yea, start floating that out there, and I'll keep being a quotable NBA front office source for you."

Yea really doesn't make sense as a stand-alone trade. But, this could be the initial smoke that builds and morphs into a much more complex trade involving a 3rd team, future draft-picks, trade-downs. Or just a total smokescreen wish... Let's hope that's the case...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PaKwAn

The joke flew right over your head dummy

---

I have my moments for sure. Please enlighten me.

So, everyone says no and one guy says yes. Lets try to flip it -- What would it take for you to say yes? I will go first:

First of all, Dyson, the three bigs, Murray, and Ivey would have to be off the board. Then,

Charlotte gets 8 and Hayes

Suns get Temple, 15, and 53 (to sell to help pay Ayton), Celtics 2024 2nd via Hornets

Pelicans get Cam Johnson, 13, 41

Hornets can double down on bigs or they can make Hayes their big and take Sharpe to pair with LaMelo. Suns use 15 to get a cost controlled guy as they pay Ayton. Pels grab Mark Williams or Branham at 13, use 41 and 45 to move up to top of 2nd round. Say you get Braun. You basically replaced Temple, Hayes, and Snell from last years roster with Cam Johnson, Mark Williams, and Braun. I wouldnt hate that.

But I'd still rather the Pels just have the guts to take Sharpe. However, I would prefer the above to taking Dieng at 8.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by neitzelbaby12

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...yn?share=other

Fischer confirming what MM has been telling us. We're gonna get Mathurin or Daniels and if they're both gone, who knows

---

Couldnt be. I am full of hot air. All fake. LOLOLOLOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rheem654

Suns' employee to Givony / Fischer: "Man, we'd really like to get a top pick, maybe from New Orleans since Willie likes Cam. Yea, start floating that out there, and I'll keep being a quotable NBA front office source for you."

Yea really doesn't make sense as a stand-alone trade. But, this could be the initial smoke that builds and morphs into a much more complex trade involving a 3rd team, future draft-picks, trade-downs. Or just a total smokescreen wish... Let's hope that's the case...

---

The Bleacher update that I got said that Phoenix would want to trade Cam for the #8 so that they can create cap space for Ayton. So yeah... in a vacuum the trade looks terrible for Phoenix but apparently they can't pay Cam (upcoming) and Ayton. Would probably need a 3rd team as you mentioned tho.

Quote:

---

The Phoenix Suns are reportedly looking at ways to keep Deandre Ayton despite an unceremonious ending to the season.

Per ESPN's Jonathan Givony, the Suns are among the teams interested in acquiring the No. 8 pick from the New Orleans Pelicans in the 2022 NBA draft and could include "a player like Cameron Johnson in order to free up salary-cap flexibility" to re-sign Ayton.

The Suns currently have $129.2 million in payroll commitments to nine players next season. Team governor Robert Sarver has indicated a willingness to go into the luxury tax if they are in a position to "compete at the highest level" for a championship.

---

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...yton-cap-space

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Upper Decker

I have my moments for sure. Please enlighten me.

---

Oh wait, your hilarious joke that you don't like his face? That was quite the zinger. I was just saying I think the "Be Legendary" phrase is corny and meaningless.

Attachment 6634

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

But I'd still rather the Pels just have the guts to take Sharpe. However, I would prefer the above to taking Dieng at 8.

---

You always talk about character, basketball IQ, drive as the X factor. Doesn't Sharpe scream red flags in all of those areas? Dude comes across dumb as ******** and seems to have moron handlers too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ULsaint

You always talk about character, basketball IQ, drive as the X factor. Doesn't Sharpe scream red flags in all of those areas? Dude comes across dumb as ******** and seems to have moron handlers too.

---

Have discussed this for weeks. He is doing nothing different than any other prospect is doing, you guys are just hearing about it more. He actually has competed in more multi prospect workouts and visited more places than a lot of guys that you all think have great character. He just didnt agree to work out for your favorite team and therefore there are red flags. Worked out more places than Ivey or Murray. Competed in more workouts than Mathurin.

He didnt play last year, so he sticks out in a weird way. People have almost no tape or intel on him so they nitpick even more out of fear, dissect every quote while not even watching any post workout interviews of other guys. How many Mathurin post workout interviews you all watch? None? Exactly.

Kid is an other wordly talent, and I wont pretend to know the other stuff. Good or bad, I wont pretend. Others are fine pretending they know, I will say I dont and leave that up to the execs who have the resources to meet with him and do background checks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Have discussed this for weeks. He is doing nothing different than any other prospect is doing, you guys are just hearing about it more. He actually has competed in more multi prospect workouts and visited more places than a lot of guys that you all think have great character. He just didnt agree to work out for your favorite team and therefore there are red flags. Worked out more places than Ivey or Murray. Competed in more workouts than Mathurin.

He didnt play last year, so he sticks out in a weird way. People have almost no tape or intel on him so they nitpick even more out of fear, dissect every quote while not even watching any post workout interviews of other guys. How many Mathurin post workout interviews you all watch? None? Exactly.

Kid is an other wordly talent, and I wont pretend to know the other stuff. Good or bad, I wont pretend. Others are fine pretending they know, I will say I dont and leave that up to the execs who have the resources to meet with him and do background checks

---

So I'm wondering... is Griff's ONLY problem with the kid is he doesn't think Sharpe is an ultra-competitor? Has to be more than that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

So, everyone says no and one guy says yes. Lets try to flip it -- What would it take for you to say yes? I will go first:

First of all, Dyson, the three bigs, Murray, and Ivey would have to be off the board. Then,

Charlotte gets 8 and Hayes

Suns get Temple, 15, and 53 (to sell to help pay Ayton), Celtics 2024 2nd via Hornets

Pelicans get Cam Johnson, 13, 41

Hornets can double down on bigs or they can make Hayes their big and take Sharpe to pair with LaMelo. Suns use 15 to get a cost controlled guy as they pay Ayton. Pels grab Mark Williams or Branham at 13, use 41 and 45 to move up to top of 2nd round. Say you get Braun. You basically replaced Temple, Hayes, and Snell from last years roster with Cam Johnson, Mark Williams, and Braun. I wouldnt hate that.

But I'd still rather the Pels just have the guts to take Sharpe. However, I would prefer the above to taking Dieng at 8.

---

In this hypo, I'd probably prefer to kick the can a year. So I'd move off the 13 in order to get an additional pick in next years draft

Pels are exploring all their options in case their top 7 are all gone. But I wish that they would just have the guts to take Sharpe. Even if you don’t plan on keeping him, his trade value in a year or two if you have him show flashes is miles beyond what Cam Johnson on a new contract would be or even what future picks from OKC war chest would be. It would be so easy to get teams to think this could be their franchise wing. Think about it this way — if he had played even 15 games in the G league and showed amazing production and flashes last year, where would he be drafted? I would argue it might be as high as 2 but no lower than 4 or 5.

But because he didn’t play, he now could be had at 8. Jump on that value, even if it’s only to buy low and sell high down the line. Again, 10 or 11 of these lotto picks won’t be on the team that drafts them 5 years from now. It’s doesn’t have to be a pick for the next decade. It’s a stock market. Buy low, sell high

I still do not think Sharpe will be there at 8, so this is all likely a waste of time