2022 NBA Draft Lottery

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

I should mention that my tidbit on Sochan is from prior to his meeting with the team

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I’m sure they love the good blend of human and dawg in him

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Pretty easy sell when you consider what Trey and Herb are going to be looking at with that second deal.

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Correct. But Trey is a bit of an example of why agents dont want their kids going here as much as other places. Remember how Trey's year started? Team was awful and Temple was playing over him. Trey worked his way out of that, but even later in the year how many times were people on this board screaming he should have played more?

Nothing is given here, and other teams are willing to give them whatever they want. Again, nobody doesnt want to come to the city. Some guys just like the sugar other snakey franchises are selling more

New first round board

1. Sharpe
2. Ivey
3. Daniels
4. Dieng
5. Sochan
6. Branham
7. Agbaji
8. Liddell
9. Eason
10. Jovic

I've been firm with this board for about the past week. There's a part of me that hopes we can get a Rockets pick out of OKC and get Sochan at 12 but I wont complain regardless. I'm talking myself into whoever we draft

1. Sharpe
2. Daniels

3. Sochan
4. Mathurin

5. Dieng

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Originally Posted by neitzelbaby12

I've been firm with this board for about the past week. There's a part of me that hopes we can get a Rockets pick out of OKC and get Sochan at 12 but I wont complain regardless. I'm talking myself into whoever we draft

1. Sharpe
2. Daniels

3. Sochan
4. Mathurin

5. Dieng

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I'll always say give me the guy who has shown it offensively over the guy who has shown it defensively. So many examples of guys who lacked effort defensively in college becoming good defenders in the pros. Way less examples of players who lacked an offensive skillset becoming decent offensively. Herb is an aberration, and its not like he was "good" offensively

My bias leads me to “give me the guy who has shown he can impact the game when he is not scoring/shot isn’t falling”

Dieng can play make for others and guard multiple positions. Same with Sochan and Dyson, who can also kill it on the boards. Davis will defend and can get to the line. It’s why Griffin is really the only guy that would be a disappointment to me. On a night he goes 1-5 from three, how did he help you win?

Updated odds

Daniels 4:1
Mathurin 4:1
Dieng 6:1
Trade Down 10:1
Murray 15:1
Sochan 15:1
Sharpe 20:1

Daniels or Mathurin are there, I think they are the pick. But with recent intel, I now actually think staying at 10 and picking Dieng is more likely than a trade down. Really need someone to grab Sharpe between 4-7

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

He wasnt the only one who cancelled, though? You gonna pass on Mathurin if he is there? I mean, Griffin was the only one who really showed and went through the full workout agreed to. So, then would you take him because of that?

Look, these guys arent cancelling because they dislike New Orleans. They just like the pitch being sold by other places more. Griff dont cater to these kids. Other places tell these guys, "shut it down, fall to us and you will get 35 minutes a game!" --- kid lights up. Griff dont do that. The kids reps asks Griff what he sees as the role for him and Griff will say things like "If he comes in and works hard, he could earn some minutes, but nothing is guaranteed."

Which team you think the handlers will steer the kid toward? But the second the Pels take him, the agent knows the path to their gravy train. They tell the kid to go in there and work his butt off, contribute to winning and that 2nd contract will come. Has NOTHING to do with the city of New Orleans. Read the above and you will understand whats going on with most of these guys and their handlers.

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Thank you for the response. I guess I was unaware a majority of these kids turn down/ not approve full workouts with teams.

I just figured they would want to showcase their abilities.

Not home run swinging on Sharpe will be a big mistake

For his trade value more than anything

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Originally Posted by PleaseWinPels

Thank you for the response. I guess I was unaware a majority of these kids turn down/ not approve full workouts with teams.

I just figured they would want to showcase their abilities.

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Would make sense, right? It’s a whole new era. As I said the other day, teams aren’t picking players any more. Players are picking teams. Even without guarantees, many of these guys are canceling workouts. Pels had a super week planned and when it was all said and done, only Griffin did everything agreed to when it was all set up. And I am not even talking lotto dudes. Other guys projected to go late teens cancelled. This new world is chaos

My hope (in order)

Murray (will he fall that far?)
Mathurin
Daniels

If all 3 are gone:

Dieng
Sochan
Griffin
Davis

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Would make sense, right? It’s a whole new era. As I said the other day, teams aren’t picking players any more. Players are picking teams. Even without guarantees, many of these guys are canceling workouts. Pels had a super week planned and when it was all said and done, only Griffin did everything agreed to when it was all set up. And I am not even talking lotto dudes. Other guys projected to go late teens cancelled. This new world is chaos

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You did say it was gonna be a big week which didn't seem to materialise

This explains it

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Originally Posted by AusPel

You did say it was gonna be a big week which didn't seem to materialise

This explains it

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right, that explains it lol

I'm not sure where this mindset comes from that we can swing for the fences with the pick because we have a more set roster than normal.

There are five guys on this team you can count on for next year. BI, CJ, Trey, JV and Herb. I acknowledge that's likely better than most lottery teams. Obviously getting back a healthy, motivated and re-signed Zion is huge but I maintain my doubts that the first two are going to be constants moving forward.

Jose is a nice backup to have but if you could draft a dynamic point guard to even back up CJ at 8, you would do it in a heartbeat. Shame it doesn't appear to be an option. I think we all agree we'd love to see Temple and Graham elsewhere without giving up meaningful assets. While everyone is pleased that Jaxson has improved, I don't think anyone believes he here's long term (free agent in '24) or that his role would largely be diminished if Zion is healthy and motivated. Kira remains injured and wasn't impressive when he was healthy.

Given that roster, we should draft a guy at 8 that can make a difference with the second unit next year and grow from there.

The mindset comes from the philosophy that you can get X multiple places - X being a guy that you described, a nice player off the bench and go from there. Can get that via trade, via FA, via internal growth (Kira), can get that in the second round even

You can’t get Y (the stud) via any other means and might not have a top 10 pick again for a decade. Yes, the miss rate is higher when you swing for the home run, but that is the philosophy and I tend to agree with it

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Originally Posted by AusPel

You did say it was gonna be a big week which didn't seem to materialise

This explains it

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Maybe I will be able to go into all the details after the draft

I’m taking Sharpe if Daniels isn’t there. I think you take the best upside, period. If they trade down that’s fine if your doing it to move money around and/or get a great veteran. I’m still going to shoot for the stars if I get a later pick. Dieng and Hardy are major upside picks that could flop but if they pan out, OMG. I’m imagining Collins and Hardy in a potential trade down could be really nice especially if we get off of Graham and Temple.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Maybe I will be able to go into all the details after the draft

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Looking forward to just hear about stuff that happens and even who we had tabs on.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

My bias leads me to “give me the guy who has shown he can impact the game when he is not scoring/shot isn’t falling”

Dieng can play make for others and guard multiple positions. Same with Sochan and Dyson, who can also kill it on the boards. Davis will defend and can get to the line. It’s why Griffin is really the only guy that would be a disappointment to me. On a night he goes 1-5 from three, how did he help you win?

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Gary Payton gave the Warriors more consistency when he was healthy and is a significantly better defender than Jordan Poole, but when Jordan Poole was hitting shots he was way more impactful and changed games for the Warriors.

I love multi-positional defenders, but I don't see much opportunity for this player to come in and consistently shine as a playmaker. Maybe year 2, or more likely year 3. But there is a role for a shooter off the bench paired with those point Zion minutes. Even if he's only a bigger version of Devante on defense. A bigger guard that won't be hunted because of his size is a net positive on that end from day 1.

It doesn't have to be in the draft, but the Pelicans have to add more 3pt shooting to this roster ASAP. It's a glaring weakness, that Kira and Zion don't solve at all, whereas they do give you more ability to make plays for others.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Not home run swinging on Sharpe will be a big mistake

For his trade value more than anything

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I agree!! If available, he's as close to a can't miss 8th pick as there is. Either you, keep him and develop him or you use him as chattel to parlay the 8th pick into much more. For me, it's a no brainer.

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Originally Posted by tdcreator

I’m taking Sharpe if Daniels isn’t there. I think you take the best upside, period. If they trade down that’s fine if your doing it to move money around and/or get a great veteran. I’m still going to shoot for the stars if I get a later pick. Dieng and Hardy are major upside picks that could flop but if they pan out, OMG. I’m imagining Collins and Hardy in a potential trade down could be really nice especially if we get off of Graham and Temple.

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Everyone's talking about Sharpe and his upside.

What about Dieng? He's 19, legit 6-10 with a 7+ wingspan, has a natural feel for the game, above average lateral agility makes him a great defender, good playmaker, and has shown flashes of BRILLIANCE vs professionals.

Struggled the first half of the year but shot well over the last 15 games.

Watch his game vs Melbourne.
https://youtu.be/U72-KnLoZm0

Pels don’t think Dieng or Sochan will be there at 12. Crazy games being played right now. I think trade down gets less and less likely by the minute. Can’t wait to see what happens to draft twitter if Pels pass on Sharpe, Griffin, Sochan, etc for Dieng

I think Dieng is higher on their board than Sochan, which would ******** a lot of people off on Pels twitter

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Pels don’t think Dieng or Sochan will be there at 12. Crazy games being played right now. I think trade down gets less and less likely by the minute. Can’t wait to see what happens to draft twitter if Pels pass on Sharpe, Griffin, Sochan, etc for Dieng

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exactly

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

I think Dieng is higher on their board than Sochan, which would ******** a lot of people off on Pels twitter

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I'd laugh. It's more entertaining when the draft throws you curve balls and doesn't match the mock consensus.

As a fan, I feel like this is a complete bonus and I'm appreciating the entertainment value of the lead up, the debates, and hopefully the draft itself on Thursday. This team's floor and ceiling for the next few years is not tied to this pick and that's a great spot to be in.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

I'd laugh. It's more entertaining when the draft throws you curve balls and doesn't match the mock consensus.

As a fan, I feel like this is a complete bonus and I'm appreciating the entertainment value of the lead up, the debates, and hopefully the draft itself on Thursday. This team's floor and ceiling for the next few years is not tied to this pick and that's a great spot to be in.

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Funny enough, traditionally if the Pelicans drafted a guy like Dieng at the 8 spot, they would get absolutely torched by national media and even local media. On the other hand, if the Spurs grabbed Dieng at 9, national media would say it's a classic Spurs pick and what do they know about this guy that we don't. And I feel like those reputations were earned, for the most part.

Now, it feels like the media perceptive of the Pelicans front office has done a 180, and I bet you see general praise for whoever they pick at 8. Amazing what one good season can do for you, but it's nice to have a year where it doesn't feel like our FO is acting with their first priority being to save their own butt with short sighted moves. Griff has definitely earned a little extra leash

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Would make sense, right? It’s a whole new era. As I said the other day, teams aren’t picking players any more. Players are picking teams. Even without guarantees, many of these guys are canceling workouts. Pels had a super week planned and when it was all said and done, only Griffin did everything agreed to when it was all set up. And I am not even talking lotto dudes. Other guys projected to go late teens cancelled. This new world is chaos

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Do you know if Griffin looked good?

I know he didn’t play against the guys they wanted him to play against and when that happens, there is very little to learn. He was brought in more to compete against the guys they really want (who didn’t show or didn’t play) and for medicals

My hope is that as normally happens, a surprise occurs in the top 6-8 picks that was unexpected and pushes someone to us. It is rare for the top 8 to go as mocked. Fingers crossed.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

. But with recent intel, I now actually think staying at 10 and picking Dieng is more likely than a trade down. Really need someone to grab Sharpe between 4-7

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Just a slip, or is something being discussed with Washington about a trade down to 10 (as Shamit suggested)?

Slip.

But 10 is the lowest the Pels feel they can go and get those guys. Sochan would go 9 and a team that has promised Dieng could easily move up to 10. Pels really dont want to move down to 12. Feel pretty sure both will be gone

Dyson Daniels shot 25 percent for 3 point? oof. man, that is tough.

When I watched film (briefly and ignorantly), I thought Griffin was slow and Davis/Mathurin played too small.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Dyson Daniels shot 25 percent for 3 point? oof. man, that is tough.

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Looking at stats from a 14 game sample size is one way to go about it. Not the right way, but its a way

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Looking at stats from a 14 game sample size is one way to go about it. Not the right way, but its a way

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Break down his 3 point shooting the right way then. I would love for someone to make me feel better about it, and Im actually not being a sarcastic a-hole when I say that, even though you are.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Break down his 3 point shooting the right way then. I would love for someone to make me feel better about it, and Im actually not being a sarcastic a-hole when I say that, even though you are.

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I just associate oof with sarcasm. Apparently his shooting has looked pretty good in his workouts, and he has good form, albeit a little slow. Ignite was a total mess from a spacing perspective and no one was creating open looks for Daniels. Compare that to a guy like Sochan who shot 30%, but was pretty much only shooting if it was a wide open look off the catch.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Updated odds

Daniels 4:1
Mathurin 4:1
Dieng 6:1
Trade Down 10:1
Murray 15:1
Sochan 15:1
Sharpe 20:1

Daniels or Mathurin are there, I think they are the pick. But with recent intel, I now actually think staying at 10 and picking Dieng is more likely than a trade down. Really need someone to grab Sharpe between 4-7

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Jesus christ, if this FO chooses Dieng over Sharpe, I will never be able to follow the draft again. That would be a monumental disappointment. That's why I'm just hoping Daniels or Mathurin fall, so we're not in that situation.

What if Dieng turns out better and/or Sharpe busts? Would you find your way back? Or would you stay away on principle? Lol

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

I just associate oof with sarcasm. Apparently his shooting has looked pretty good in his workouts, and he has good form, albeit a little slow. Ignite was a total mess from a spacing perspective and no one was creating open looks for Daniels. Compare that to a guy like Sochan who shot 30%, but was pretty much only shooting if it was a wide open look off the catch.

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There is nothing sarcastic about that oof, its a genuine representation of the pain of watching the Pelicans brick 3 pointers and rank bottom 5 in the NBA for 3pt%, during an era where three point shooting has become an integral part of the game. Perimeter shooting is an area we desperately need to improve. The idea of drafting a guard who is below average in three point shooting makes me say oof in a completely earnest way. But I am open to believing Daniels is a much better 3 point shooter than that 25 percent indicates, i mean he cant be much worse.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

What if Dieng turns out better and/or Sharpe busts? Would you find your way back? Or would you stay away on principle? Lol

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Do you buy the Sharpe comparisons to Ant Edwards? If there is even a decent chance that he could turn out to be like that, I would hope we would take a chance on him (if the top 7 are gone).

I don’t see ANT from a quick twitch physical profile. His ceiling to me was always more young Ray Allen. Remember ceiling, not likely to reach.

Lately, I am thinking more Lavine. Explosive vertical athlete who can score on all 3 levels. Not really a playmaker, and the difference between 1 time All Star and 8x All Star would be if he gives effort on D

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I don’t see ANT from a quick twitch physical profile. His ceiling to me was always more young Ray Allen. Remember ceiling, not likely to reach.

Lately, I am thinking more Lavine. Explosive vertical athlete who can score on all 3 levels. Not really a playmaker, and the difference between 1 time All Star and 8x All Star would be if he gives effort on D

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That’s how I see him, like a Levine/JR Smith

Sharpe is no where near Anthony Edward's or Ray Allen. If he was even close to that type of prospect he would go top 3. I don't understand why everyone is pumping him up. I seriously doubt he is even picked in the top 5. The team that drafts him is simply taking a gamble that he somehow becomes a superstar. I saw where Shamit had him at 10 today which is about where he should go (between 10 or 12).

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Originally Posted by PelicanProf

Sharpe is no where near Anthony Edward's or Ray Allen. If he was even close to that type of prospect he would go top 3. I don't understand why everyone is pumping him up. I seriously doubt he is even picked in the top 5. The team that drafts him is simply taking a gamble that he somehow becomes a superstar. I saw where Shamit had him at 10 today which is about where he should go (between 10 or 12).

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You understand the term ceiling right? Nobody should say any of these prospects ARE anything

If we KNEW what they would be, Giannis wouldnt go 15. Jokic wouldnt go 41.etc

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Originally Posted by PelicanProf

Sharpe is no where near Anthony Edward's or Ray Allen. If he was even close to that type of prospect he would go top 3. I don't understand why everyone is pumping him up. I seriously doubt he is even picked in the top 5. The team that drafts him is simply taking a gamble that he somehow becomes a superstar. I saw where Shamit had him at 10 today which is about where he should go (between 10 or 12).

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I don’t know Shamit but I’d be willing to bet he has Sharpe 10 based on a lack of info, not based on potential. If Shamit had the information on Sharpe that NBA teams are privy to, he would likely either have him in his top 5 or entirely out of his top 10. Having him 10th is just a way of hedging bets

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

You understand the term ?ceiling? right? Nobody should say any of these prospects ARE anything

If we KNEW what they would be, Giannis wouldn?t go 15. Jokic wouldn?t go 41.etc

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I think it’s comical that people don’t understand this when talking comparisons lol

Chris Haynes on Shaedon Sharpe:

“He worked out for the Trailblazers (and the Pacers) and I believe he was supposed to work out for the Pelicans, but that workout was cancelled. There’s people that believe he might have gotten a promise.”

Via Posted Up with Chris Haynes pic.twitter.com/3Atmjybc5V

— Alex Golden (@AlexGoldenNBA) June 21, 2022

Don’t shoot the messenger

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

I just associate oof with sarcasm. Apparently his shooting has looked pretty good in his workouts, and he has good form, albeit a little slow. Ignite was a total mess from a spacing perspective and no one was creating open looks for Daniels. Compare that to a guy like Sochan who shot 30%, but was pretty much only shooting if it was a wide open look off the catch.

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I can tell you either haven?t watched many of their games or maybe just different games than I watched. Sochan is a much more willing shooter than Daniels from the games I watched. And not just wide open threes. Daniels seems to be a more reluctant three point shooter even when his opponents back off him and dare him to shoot. A lot of that is probably because Daniels seems to think of himself as a pass first point guard, and partly because he probably recognizes his weaknesses. Also most of Daniels attempts that I saw were the catch and shoot variety, I didn?t see him coming off screens and launching into shots.

I?ve also seen games where both seemed to be feeling it, so there?s potential for both with their shots. The one thing I like about Sochan?s shot over Daniel?s is that Sochan has a quicker release. Daniel?s shot just seems slow to me even in an empty gym.

Edit: eh, you’re right Dyson did shoot more per game, 3.6 Vs 2.7. Not sure how meaningful that is though considering Dyson’s playing point while Sochan is basically a power forward for Baylor

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Chris Haynes on Shaedon Sharpe:

“He worked out for the Trailblazers (and the Pacers) and I believe he was supposed to work out for the Pelicans, but that workout was cancelled. There’s people that believe he might have gotten a promise.”

Via Posted Up with Chris Haynes pic.twitter.com/3Atmjybc5V

— Alex Golden (@AlexGoldenNBA) June 21, 2022

Don’t shoot the messenger

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Is this new news?
I mean the Pelicans are going to have a hard time drafting this guy especially if he doesn’t work out for us, we’d have very little to go on. If his workouts went well with the teams ahead of us than they’ll probably draft him. If they pass on him we might have to take that as a warning sign.

I would love if Sharpe went before us. Then Murray, Daniels, or Mathurin would fall to us. Possibly even Ivey