Who at #14?

If the Pels give up assets to move up to select Lively, Griff needs to be launched directly into the sun.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

If the Pels give up assets to move up to select Lively, Griff needs to be launched directly into the sun.

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I second that. Im not sure he's any better than James Nnaji, who could be attained via trading back

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

I second that. Im not sure he's any better than James Nnaji, who could be attained via trading back

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He's probably going to be a very fine rim protector but he has shown basically no other skills - there's nothing he does (right now) that you can't just get on the FA market every year for the minimum. I agree with you, if all you want is a rim runner/protector, trade back, grab another asset, and pick up Nnaji, or get one in FA.

I have something against drafting one dimension guys and then just hoping they gain another skill at some point in their lives. It's the same reason I'm anti-Hawkins on this team. Yes, I think he'll be a good NBA shooter but he does nothing else.

Right now, ESPN's latest mock (as of 6 hours ago) has Cason Wallace to the Hawks at #15, Brandin Podziemski to the Warriors at #19, Leonard Miller to the Hornets at #27, dariq Whitehead to the Clippers at #30, and Brice Sensabaugh to the Pistons at #31.

I would rather take any of them than Lively at #14.

I won't be as angry as some if they take Lively at 14. I will be if they give up any assets to get him.

I'll be happier if he's picked by someone else.

Twitter = steroid infused Tiger Droppings. And that includes some of the local "media."

Question for dae or anyone who scout the college players.......who in this draft could be a good backup PF thats ready to play now?.....

i know we have the kid from ohio st but who in this draft could be a good player to draft as a backup PF...

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Originally Posted by 6warddude

Question for dae or anyone who scout the college players.......who in this draft could be a good backup PF thats ready to play now?.....

i know we have the kid from ohio st but who in this draft could be a good player to draft as a backup PF...

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The weakness of this draft is really in the bigs, so it depends. If you want a traditional PF, there aren't many options - if you're into a more modern switchy Nance Jr type, there are a few.

Jarace is the obvious go-to. He's absolutely excellent, but he's probably going top 10 so we won't get him.

Taylor Hendricks is more of a blocks-and-threes forward than an old school, but he's also excellent - also probably going top 10.

Leonard Miller is fun, he's not really a shooter as of yet (mechanics are all kinds of inconsistent) but he's got some craft, some reasonable passing, and he's a legitimately very good rebounder with some defensive versatility.

Trayce Jackson-davis is predicted by most to go a little lower, potentially even second round, but he's very much like Nance Jr. He's already 23 so he's a little old for a rookie but he's that kind of guy who will be pretty good straight away, I think, a good secondary rim protector who can venture out of the paint a little and a great passer out of the short roll.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

The weakness of this draft is really in the bigs, so it depends. If you want a traditional PF, there aren't many options - if you're into a more modern switchy Nance Jr type, there are a few.

Jarace is the obvious go-to. He's absolutely excellent, but he's probably going top 10 so we won't get him.

Taylor Hendricks is more of a blocks-and-threes forward than an old school, but he's also excellent - also probably going top 10.

Leonard Miller is fun, he's not really a shooter as of yet (mechanics are all kinds of inconsistent) but he's got some craft, some reasonable passing, and he's a legitimately very good rebounder with some defensive versatility.

Trayce Jackson-davis is predicted by most to go a little lower, potentially even second round, but he's very much like Nance Jr. He's already 23 so he's a little old for a rookie but he's that kind of guy who will be pretty good straight away, I think, a good secondary rim protector who can venture out of the paint a little and a great passer out of the short roll.

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thanks.....the one thing thats been driving me is that we didnt have anyone behind zion to step in when he was injured......ill take a solid backup PF over anyone to add with the team we have now....

What about EJ? Can he play some 4?

The wise thing to do is to play it back......

# 1 missed 53 games (some by choice)
BI Missed 37 games
Jose' missed 21 games
DD missed 23 games (not all due to injury)
LNJ missed 17 games
EJ Missed 82 games

For Consideration: 2020 #1 pick, Kira Lewis was coming back from Knee surgery and missed 57 games.

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But, instead of talking about the reasons to be optimistic about this team and a potential lottery selection (Cason Wallace, please), we are forced into dealing with the immaturity of a guy who continues to hold this franchise hostage and commenting on his off-the-court sexual practices.

Pels Life to the nth degree!!!

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

What about EJ? Can he play some 4?

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I actually had him as a first rounder in his draft, I was very pleased when we picked him up - if he's anything like his pre-injury self, yes, I think he solves a lot of our issues in terms of backup forward. He's a great rebounder, can shoot, excellent passer, smart and mature player.

Who knows, obviously, now - it was a serious injury. But if he's even 85% of himself he should be a cool contributor at the 4 and even potentially small-ball 5. He's not PJ Tucker but there's kind of a little of the PJ Tucker aura about him sometimes.

Is there a player @14 or anywhere close o 14 that would come in and really contribute this season? Or is it better to trade that pick plus whatever for a vet that would help this yr? We have a pretty young team is it wise to draft a rookie that would probably take 2 yrs to really make a difference

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Originally Posted by djrnno

Is there a player @14 or anywhere close o 14 that would come in and really contribute this season? Or is it better to trade that pick plus whatever for a vet that would help this yr? We have a pretty young team is it wise to draft a rookie that would probably take 2 yrs to really make a difference

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I think it depends what you mean by 'contribute', I guess. If you mean, is there someone who will come in and be a top 5 player on the team instantly, the answer is probably no at #14. But then, any vet you get for trading #14 probably won't meet that standard either.

If you're just asking if there's anyone who could come in and be functional in some ways, with some rough edges that need polishing, the answer is yes.

For example, some mocks have Cason Wallace still available at #14 - he's someone that both I and As I See It have been fans of for a while now. He's excellent and while he's going to take a while to be a primary initiator at the NBA (which is his ultimate ceiling, as a PG) I'm fairly confident that he's going to be a very capable defender at the guard positions immediately while making sensible passes and still being an okay catch and shoot guy.

Brandin Podziemski is another example - he's probably going to struggle defensively as a rookie, and he's going to have to adjust a little bit to the differences between NBA and college rebounding (he was a very good rebounding guard in college but in the NBA it's a little different) but he's going to be a solid shooter and passer immediately, imo.

Even someone like Lively, who I don't like at #14 at all, is probably going to be a reasonable enough drop defender even early in his career - good enough that he could replace Jax on that end without much issue, even if he hasn't got the offensive upside Jax initially had.

There are definitely options.

Of course if we were top 7-ish, Wemby, Amen, Ausar, and Jarace are all guys who I think are immediate impact players day 1.

So let's say the starters are CJ, BI, Herb, Zion, and JV. The first off the bench are Jose, Trey, Dyson, and Nance (not in that order). That's already nine....all that to say, barring injuries, I just don't see anyone cracking decent minutes. The only spot that might get play is Center and this isn't the best spot for those guys. If we're not making a major move, I'm all for us trading back and gaining ammunition for later or getting a high risk/high reward player that can chill in Alabama a season or two.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

So let's say the starters are CJ, BI, Herb, Zion, and JV. The first off the bench are Jose, Trey, Dyson, and Nance (not in that order). That's already nine....all that to say, barring injuries, I just don't see anyone cracking decent minutes. The only spot that might get play is Center and this isn't the best spot for those guys. If we're not making a major move, I'm all for us trading back and gaining ammunition for later or getting a high risk/high reward player that can chill in Alabama a season or two.

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I feel like a lot will depend on any moves that happen. Even assuming that both BI and Zion stay, I don't think it would be a huge shocker if JV, Naji, etc, left - and of course, we're not likely to resign Jax. So maybe they really want to replace Jax with someone and that's why they're rumoured to be into Lively. I would very much dislike that, but it's always possible.

Or maybe there's some package deal in the pipeline where a fan favourite who isn't necessarily a roster mainstay goes somewhere; such as Jose. I like Jose a lot, but if the right deal exists it's hard to frame him as untouchable, and then they might be interested in a backup guard which would make something like the Podziemski pick more likely - or someone I dislike like Hawkins :hihi:

Lots of possibilities still in the air. There are dominoes that could make almost anything happen should they fall.

Dae, who would you say is the guy who has top 5 or top 10 talent but is just too raw and will need development time so they might fall to us at 14?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I like Jose a lot, but if the right deal exists it's hard to frame him as untouchable, and then they might be interested in a backup guard which would make something like the Podziemski pick more likely - or someone I dislike like Hawkins :hihi:

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Now it's a given, Jordan Hawkins will shine in the NBA.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Now it's a given, Jordan Hawkins will shine in the NBA.

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Hey, he's still relatively young, it's always possible he learns to do something other than shoot. He's a great shooter, it's just literally everything else he's missing at the moment.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Dae, who would you say is the guy who has top 5 or top 10 talent but is just too raw and will need development time so they might fall to us at 14?

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I think the popular answer right now is Bilal Coulibaly, but frankly I don't buy it too much from him right now. Lots of people are hot on him right now though, for precisely that reason: he's raw in a lot of ways but he has cool flashes and he has the build for it and everything.

For me, I could easily see Jarace Walker falling in the same way that Brandon Clarke did a few years ago: he's kind of a tweener forward who isn't really an established shooter, lacks some of the size you might want, but is just really good at playing basketball and is so versatile defensively despite the height disadvantages. I think he has spot-up shooter potential also, that's not a complete non-factor. Excellent screener, fantastically mobile, moves well laterally, awesome rebounder who really commands the paint despite the size issues, vertical enough to overcome some of that height problem and he really seals guys off well. Pretty solid ballhandler, especially for the position, passes well off the short roll, has some good finesse finishes like floaters. I have him #5 on my board and I do get the feeling he's going to slide a bit. Probably not to 14, but it wouldn't shock me if it happened.

Pre-season, I also had dariq Whitehead as one of those top top talents, and purely based on court, I still do. Flamethrower shooting prospect, excellent frame for it, great ballhandler, fantastic sense of balance, very nice footwork. Problem with him is that he's now broken his foot on two separate occasions I think, and most mocks have sliding as far as the 30s as a result - if the medicals are truly that bad, I would avoid him, but obviously I have no knowledge of those medicals; maybe it's just bad luck? That's something only people with actual medical training who can look at him can tell. He's also one of the youngest guys in the class.

Edit: Leonard Miller is also like, the ultimate ''if he shoots' guy in this class. Tall, fun defensive player, surprisingly good handle, decent enough passer, weirdly athletic, quite mobile, but right now his shooting is a shambles. If he can translate it to the NBA and actually work out how to shoot, he'll be fun.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Hey, he's still relatively young, it's always possible he learns to do something other than shoot. He's a great shooter, it's just literally everything else he's missing at the moment.

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And he's younger than BI when he got here, huh?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Edit: Leonard Miller is also like, the ultimate ''if he shoots' guy in this class. Tall, fun defensive player, surprisingly good handle, decent enough passer, weirdly athletic, quite mobile, but right now his shooting is a shambles. If he can translate it to the NBA and actually work out how to shoot, he'll be fun.

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Sounds like you are describing DD.

I hate to over-simplify ********, but it seems like every time we lose a game it's because we get beat at the 3 pt line.... badly. There's a lot more to basketball than 3 pointers, but I don't care; I want a damn sniper. I don't want anyone who has to learn to shoot this time around. I just want a shooter... thats it

grady dick
keyonte george (despite his college%, he can shoot)
jordan hawkins (I like him the least)
jett howard
brandon podzienski
dariq whitehead
krid murray (33% isnt good, but he took 7 a game

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

I hate to over-simplify ********, but it seems like every time we lose a game it's because we get beat at the 3 pt line.... badly. There's a lot more to basketball than 3 pointers, but I don't care; I want a damn sniper. I don't want anyone who has to learn to shoot this time around. I just want a shooter... thats it

grady dick
keyonte george (despite his college%, he can shoot)
jordan hawkins (I like him the least)
jett howard
brandon podzienski
dariq whitehead
krid murray (33% isnt good, but he took 7 a game

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Brice Sensabaugh was, in my opinion, the second best shooter in the draft this year - he's another example of how the medicals come out though, cause he did have a knee injury.

He's probably one of the best scorers all-round this year, assuming health.

6'6. 40.5% from 3 on 11.1 3s per 100. High level pullup game, from 3 and the midrange - shot over 40% on NBA range 3PAs.

Sensabaugh, Whitehead, Podziemski, are probably the 3 that will be on the board at #14 who I would take, assuming nobody falls. If he falls, I'd add Cason.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I think the popular answer right now is Bilal Coulibaly, but frankly I don't buy it too much from him right now. Lots of people are hot on him right now though, for precisely that reason: he's raw in a lot of ways but he has cool flashes and he has the build for it and everything.

For me, I could easily see Jarace Walker falling in the same way that Brandon Clarke did a few years ago: he's kind of a tweener forward who isn't really an established shooter, lacks some of the size you might want, but is just really good at playing basketball and is so versatile defensively despite the height disadvantages. I think he has spot-up shooter potential also, that's not a complete non-factor. Excellent screener, fantastically mobile, moves well laterally, awesome rebounder who really commands the paint despite the size issues, vertical enough to overcome some of that height problem and he really seals guys off well. Pretty solid ballhandler, especially for the position, passes well off the short roll, has some good finesse finishes like floaters. I have him #5 on my board and I do get the feeling he's going to slide a bit. Probably not to 14, but it wouldn't shock me if it happened.

Pre-season, I also had dariq Whitehead as one of those top top talents, and purely based on court, I still do. Flamethrower shooting prospect, excellent frame for it, great ballhandler, fantastic sense of balance, very nice footwork. Problem with him is that he's now broken his foot on two separate occasions I think, and most mocks have sliding as far as the 30s as a result - if the medicals are truly that bad, I would avoid him, but obviously I have no knowledge of those medicals; maybe it's just bad luck? That's something only people with actual medical training who can look at him can tell. He's also one of the youngest guys in the class.

Edit: Leonard Miller is also like, the ultimate ''if he shoots' guy in this class. Tall, fun defensive player, surprisingly good handle, decent enough passer, weirdly athletic, quite mobile, but right now his shooting is a shambles. If he can translate it to the NBA and actually work out how to shoot, he'll be fun.

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Solid.

This post will make draft night more fun for me. Hoping some people fall to us.

ya know i had cast off sensabough cause i simply stereotyped him to have a hard time getting open, getting his shot off and being a defensive liability due
his lack of height, athleticism, wingspan ect and to a large measure I am right. he will struggle in the pros.

... but after finally watching his tape i must say the dude is a damn savy scorer and will stay that way. look at desmond Bane and his tyranasauras rex like arms. he made it lol

dont want him at 14 though

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

ya know i had cast off sensabough cause i simply stereotyped him to have a hard time getting open, getting his shot off and being a defensive liability due
his lack of height, athleticism, wingspan ect and to a large measure I am right. he will struggle in the pros.

... but after finally watching his tape i must say the dude is a damn savy scorer and will stay that way. look at desmond Bane and his tyranasauras rex like arms. he made it lol

dont want him at 14 though

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He's not a good defender, that's absolutely true. Probably the best pure scorer in the top of the draft though, which I think is pretty impressive and if all you want is someone who can score the damn ball and shoot from everywhere, he is your man.

Gonna have a drug test kit at his door Friday morning. https://t.co/ZOrka4d0GK

— Chris Conner (@Impatientbull) June 21, 2023

“From what I’m hearing… Scoot would like to be in New Orleans”

- @ChrisBHaynes

(Via @RipCityRadio620 ) pic.twitter.com/8LfDqldlS4

— NBACentral (@TheNBACentral) June 21, 2023

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

?From what I?m hearing? Scoot would like to be in New Orleans?

- @ChrisBHaynes

(Via @RipCityRadio620 ) pic.twitter.com/8LfDqldlS4

? NBACentral (@TheNBACentral) June 21, 2023

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That's right. Lower Portland's leverage muahahaha.

I'll give Portland a ridiculous amount of picks obviously including 14, Dyson, Hernangomez, whatever. Just don't touch BI, Z, and Trey.

Let's go deeper. Charlotte exercises its positional leverage to force its way into a deal and still get their guy. They draft Scoot. Portland takes Miller. But then the following unfolds as New Orleans goes on the clock at 14...

We have a trade! New Orleans has made a trade with the Charlotte Hornets and the Portland Trailblazers:

-New Orleans trades Zion Williamson to the Portland Trailblazers and the 14th overall pick to the Charlotte Hornets;
-Portland trades Anfernee Simons and the draft rights to Brandon Miller to the Charlotte Hornets and the 23rd overall pick to the New Orleans Pelicans;
-Charlotte trades Gordon Hayward, the draft rights to Scoot Henderson and the 34th overall pick to the New Orleans Pelicans and the 39th overall pick to the Portland Trailblazers.

So...

Charlotte gets Brandon Miller, Anfernee Simons, Nasir Little and the 14th overall pick;
Portland gets Zion Williamson and Charlotte's 39th overall pick;
New Orleans gets Scoot Henderson, Portland's 23rd overall pick and Charlotte's 34th overall pick.

If you're trading Zion for multiple rookies and firsts, you better be moving Ingram too because that right there is a rebuild.

I also feel like the only team who would be happy with that would be Charlotte :hihi:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

If you're trading Zion for multiple rookies and firsts, you better be moving Ingram too because that right there is a rebuild.

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Why do you say that it is a rebuild if trading Zion? It is not like Zion has contributed in many games of importance over the last 4 seasons. The Pels have achieved whatever they did without him, especially in the 2021-22 season.

So the Pels will simply be adding to what they already have, by trading Zion, and giving the rest of the team the tools they need for success. BI is still only 25yo too, so he's on the same timeline as Scoot.

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Originally Posted by LAL1947

Why do you say that it is a rebuild if trading Zion? It is not like Zion has contributed in many games of importance over the last 4 seasons. The Pels have achieved whatever they did without him, especially in the 2021-22 season.

So the Pels will simply be adding to what they already have, by trading Zion, and giving the rest of the team the tools they need for success. BI is still only 25yo too, so he's on the same timeline as Scoot.

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Because in the 4 years he's been here, the best we've finished is 9th.

So it's clear that, right now, without him, this team sucks. If he's not coming back at all, you have a 9th seed team about to become capped out with huge extensions due to BI, Trey, and Herb. Multiple years of JV and CJ still on the books. Very few remaining assets to supplement team growth.

''The Pels have achieved whatever they did without him''. 2 playoff wins in 4 years. I'm not very interested in hitting the luxury tax over that. Why pay through the nose to keep a losing team together?

If you're moving the only top-10 calibre player on the roster (which you just don't win chips without), you're either resetting or becoming a very expensive mediocrity.

Player A (without player B) in their best 15 game stretch--
29 pts, 8 rebs, 5 assists, 1.1 stls, 0.8 blks
64/38/72 shooting splits
9-6 record and 1-5 on the road

Player B (without player A) in their best 15 game stretch last year--
28 pts, 7 rebs, 8 assists, 0.7 stls, 0.5 blks
51/43/88 shooting splits
9-6 record and 5-4 on the road

One of these put up even better stats in a 6 game playoff stint against a #1 seed. The other has yet to play a playoff game.

Both players are often injured, but one is less injured than the other.

So it looks like if the team has to depend on either player alone, this team is no better than a "9th seed" no?

That team in which Zion didn't contribute too much missed his game and the offense suffered. There were other injuries that impacted the season as well. But the earlier proposed trade for draft picks didn't seem like enough value. I am going to say the Pelicans stay at 14 having seen all the hype for a move before.
And I am not a troll. Had a liver transplant last July and have stayed off the board.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

If you're trading Zion for multiple rookies and firsts, you better be moving Ingram too because that right there is a rebuild.

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I might not say rebuild but I would not see it as a move forward. The team might need veteran help with rookie help. I think they need something. Not sure if that something is another shooter, a different center, or something I am not thinking about at the moment. They do need good health for most of the season. Injuries will happen.

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Originally Posted by Lee2000

That team in which Zion didn't contribute too much missed his game and the offense suffered. There were other injuries that impacted the season as well. But the earlier proposed trade for draft picks didn't seem like enough value. I am going to say the Pelicans stay at 14 having seen all the hype for a move before.
And I am not a troll. Had a liver transplant last July and have stayed off the board.

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Hope your recovery has gone well, wishing you the best

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

“From what I’m hearing… Scoot would like to be in New Orleans”

- @ChrisBHaynes

(Via @RipCityRadio620 ) pic.twitter.com/8LfDqldlS4

— NBACentral (@TheNBACentral) June 21, 2023

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Chris Haynes is super close to Dame...should we be reading into that?

Thank you. I am extremely grateful and living in the day.



Pelicanidae

Hope your recovery has gone well, wishing you the best