What Constitutes 'Victory' in a Phoenix Series?

Off topic: Lakers played on Christmas, but Pelicans are playing on Easter Sunday! Screw L.A.!

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Originally Posted by 6warddude

willie learning from this series and applying it to make him a better coach going forward.....he will see everything the suns have to win this series that he would not see in the regular season...

all of the players learning from this series and hope that they can understand and work on what it takes to improve on in order to get to the next level as players and as a team....

i can also say im glad the owner is getting paid for the team being in the playoffs...

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This for me.

I love Willie and what he and Griff are building here but the downside to the fun family environment is knowing when to make cold decisions....like benching a hard working but struggling vet or limiting rotations to 8 or 9 guys. He's going to be a great coach but he isn't that far removed from being a player.....so it's a tough edge to develop.

Winning every game at home and taking the series to game 7. Thats what I want. Simple enough.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I am kind of confused, Lauri for Lonzo was the year before. But to get to your overall point -- could we have afforded them all? Yes. Could have traded Lonzo for Lauri, re-signed Lauri and then did the same trade for CJ this year. But if you have Lauri, do you draft Herb at 35 or do you go for a guard? Would Trey have gotten small ball 4 minutes or be further down the depth chart? Do you ask for Nance in the CJ trade if you already have all those bigs?

I know Lauri had one nice game yesterday, but he wouldnt rank in my top 10 of "could haves" in the Griff era. Fine with saying no to that deal

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What is your top ten could haves?

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Originally Posted by Brian

What is your top ten could haves?

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Well that isn’t gonna happen. So, is anything else a failure to you or is there a lower bar that will constitute victory?

A series win:D. OK, realistically... a couple of wins no matter where. I'm stoked to even have this view considering where we came from at the beginning of the year.

To me victory would mean that all the players would face up to what it takes to be a contender and what the team and they individually need to do to improve. IMHO the team needs three more good players (Zion coming back, this year's lottery pick and a trade for Graham might do it) plus improvement across the board like TM3's handle, Zion's defense, etc. It's tough to be successful but, with luck and an incredible amount of hard work it's finally, now, at least possible.

A 5-6 game series.

If it takes 7 games to beat Phoenix might as well blow it up and rebuild.

No injuries is prime. Two wins is the most I expect.

Best chance is to steal a win today. And get one at home but we may not win a single one. Just compete. Make them hurt and bleed for every moment.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

No injuries is prime. Two wins is the most I expect.

Best chance is to steal a win today. And get one at home but we may not win a single one. Just compete. Make them hurt and bleed for every moment.

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Expect or hope for?

HUGE difference

They haven’t won squat just like us I expect for our leaders to lead cj know what it takes and b.I got that dog in em I want them to win the series

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

They haven’t won squat just like us I expect for our leaders to lead cj know what it takes and b.I got that dog in em I want them to win the series

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I think we all WANT that. But its okay to be realistic and know they want and look for other things that will lead to winning in the future

Hey I just feel like it’s the Pelicans time the saints have had they run of dominance, our coach has championship winning experience nobody on Phoenix has that off the top of my head; our head coach was a big part of what they have over there no knock to Monty because I felt he should’ve stayed our coach and that was the end of the a.d era. We will win some games just my belief and wouldnt be surprised to beat them herb has shown he’s top 15 atleast on defense and not afraid to shoot Brandon cj and Val doesn’t need any explanation; if Jonas plays big we will knock these guys off

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

Hey I just feel like it’s the Pelicans time the saints have had they run of dominance, our coach has championship winning experience nobody on Phoenix has that off the top of my head; our head coach was a big part of what they have over there no knock to Monty because I felt he should’ve stayed our coach and that was the end of the a.d era. We will win some games just my belief and wouldnt be surprised to beat them herb has shown he’s top 15 atleast on defense and not afraid to shoot Brandon cj and Val doesn’t need any explanation; if Jonas plays big we will knock these guys off

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Well, my suggestion would be to find other things that would make you happy in the event none of that happens. Because it wont. Not telling you what to think or do. Just a friendly suggestion to help out.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Well, my suggestion would be to find other things that would make you happy in the event none of that happens. Because it wont. Not telling you what to think or do. Just a friendly suggestion to help out.

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My suggestion would be to pull for the team to win and stop coming up with scenarios where you prefer them to lose

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

My suggestion would be to pull for the team to win and stop coming up with scenarios where you prefer them to lose

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I am rooting for them to win. Rooted for them to win and wanted them to win vs Spurs. Never said anybody should want them to lose in this series.

Debate the actual persons arguments. Not a strawman you made up. Simple advice.

I never mentioned it making me happy just feel like they overrated like the hawk teams that won 50 plus in the 2010’s, booker nice I like Ingram more Chris nice and I like him more than cj but give me the last series he played in that he didn’t get injured causing his team to Falter lol I’ll wait ; ps I like the conversations with you unlike some ppl I enjoy difference in opinions

This Suns team is not overrated. If anything, it is the opposite. They probably could have won 70. As I showed in another thread, they really only lost two games when they were healthy and really going hard. They are basically the Pels but better.

They live in the mid range like current Pels do but they make a lot more and defend it a lot better. That Hawks team also didnt go to the Finals the year before and gobble up all that experience. Never had the best guy in the series, etc etc

This Suns team is to us what we would be to the current Magic. If we were playing the Magic in a 7 game series today, would you guys be giving them a punchers chance?

Well guess what we don’t have a problem stopping anything inside the 3 pt line so like I said not worried , who is the magic s bi and cj lol cole Anthony lol

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I am rooting for them to win. Rooted for them to win and wanted them to win vs Spurs. Never said anybody should want them to lose in this series.

Debate the actual persons arguments. Not a strawman you made up. Simple advice.

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You put a great deal of effort into trying to convince this board to hope for the Pelicans to lose and not make it to the playoffs. But that didn't work out for you. So here you are, yet again giving "simple advice" to fans to find things about the Pelicans losing to make them happy. Its wack. That loser mentality so deeply ingrained you just can't help yourself.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

You put a great deal of effort into trying to convince this board to hope for the Pelicans to lose and not make it to the playoffs. But that didn't work out for you. So here you are, yet again giving "simple advice" to fans to find things about the Pelicans losing to make them happy. Its wack. That loser mentality so deeply ingrained you just can't help yourself.

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LOL - I said what I will root for and why. I also put all the pros of making the playoffs up in a post. If it brings you joy to keep hurling insults at a man you never met, then do you man. But at least get the facts right when you call someone a loser. Whatever brings you joy, fella

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

LOL - I said what I will root for and why. I also put all the pros of making the playoffs up in a post. If it brings you joy to keep hurling insults at a man you never met, then do you man. But at least get the facts right when you call someone a loser. Whatever brings you joy, fella

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I could be insulting if I wanted to, there was no insult in that post. Its literally what you are doing. Don't act like you didn't try your best to advance an argument for why people should want the Pelicans to not make the playoffs, have a little integrity and stand behind what you did.

My bad - saying a person has a loser mentality....not an insult. Noted.

Again, hope it makes you feel good. Best wishes.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

My bad - saying a person has a loser mentality....not an insult. Noted.

Again, hope it makes you feel good. Best wishes.

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Its not an insult. Its a description of the mentality you are exhibiting. If the Pelicans were to go into this game with the attitude "as long as we only lose by single digits, that's a victory for us!". That would be a loser mentality. And that is your mentality.

You can race Usain Bolt and tell yourself you are going to win or you can go and say "I am going to give it my best and grow from it!"

The second doesnt make you a loser. But again, whatever makes you happy. Do you not see the irony of telling me that I am wrong for advising others on how they should think and now you have the one and only correct way to think? Everyone who doesnt think that way has a loser mentality!

Pot, kettle, bro. How about you just ignore me and go enjoy the game and root for that victory

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

You can race Usain Bolt and tell yourself you are going to win or you can go and say "I am going to give it my best and grow from it!"

The second doesnt make you a loser. But again, whatever makes you happy. Do you not see the irony of telling me that I am wrong for advising others on how they should think and now you have the one and only correct way to think? Everyone who doesnt think that way has a loser mentality!

Pot, kettle, bro. How about you just ignore me and go enjoy the game and root for that victory

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If someone is competing in the Olympics with the mentality that they are going to lose to the competition, that is a loser mentality. I would be shocked if any of the top level competitors had that mentality. Its not a recipe for success. Visualizing winning + doing everything to manifest that vision is what winning competitors do. Visualizing winning is also what a healthy fan base does. Its my opinion that this loser attitude makes the vibe of this board suck. Im tired of coming here and seeing people wanting the team to lose and/or expecting the team to lose. I'm not going to ignore it, and its not my concern if you feel insulted when I call it out.

Well, hope that crusade goes well for you. I am sure you will make a real difference. Quite an important cause to advocate for!

Usain is a champ Phoenix isn’t , wouldn’t be the first upset and would not be hard to understand look at our coach he played in the NBA and has coached on several championship teams Brandon Ingram is more experienced with every year McCollum can drop 30 and hit the clutch shot , I’m sure Utah jazz don’t wanna play us in sure the mavs don’t wanna play us I’m sure Phoenix not worried about us but that maybe the kind of flaw we need them to have and we would give Denver problems too look at the second half of the season we are just about as talented as all the other teams add Zion eventually and it’s not a question

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Well, hope that crusade goes well for you. I am sure you will make a real difference. Quite an important cause to advocate for!

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I mean its not nearly as important as your cause of getting everybody on board with losing, but hey its something

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

Usain is a champ Phoenix isn’t , wouldn’t be the first upset and would not be hard to understand look at our coach he played in the NBA and has coached on several championship teams Brandon Ingram is more experienced with every year McCollum can drop 30 and hit the clutch shot , I’m sure Utah jazz don’t wanna play us in sure the mavs don’t wanna play us I’m sure Phoenix not worried about us but that maybe the kind of flaw we need them to have and we would give Denver problems too look at the second half of the season we are just about as talented as all the other teams add Zion eventually and it’s not a question

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We dont like when others disrespect our team. Say that they dont watch our games, dont know us, etc. Yet, we can say Phoenix isnt that good despite knowing that you didnt really watch them much. C'mon, give the same to other teams as you want others to give your team. One day, the Pels will be juggernauts and massive favorites against some team that lucked their way in, and you wont be saying "Yeah, they might be able to beat us. I can see it. We really arent THAT good"

But I wont get sucked into this any more. You guys believe what you want. Get happiness where you can. Just dont turn on this team when they get smacked because you thought they were better than they are. Thats all I ask.

Being favorites Don’t get you nothing ask mike Tyson I didn’t disrespect anybody on they’re team I said we can beat them which they shouldn’t be ashamed of that we literally have one of they’re best coaches now which gives us an inside track on them but hey let’s discuss this stuff after 3 games cause even if we win tonight it won’t convince you we have a legitimate chance

I will always be open to new information. I wont deny truth if it comes along and flies in the face of my past hypothesis. Some people call that "flip flopping" while I think being open to change ones opinion is true strength and intelligence.

That said, it will be a smack down. 4 games, 5 at most. Average margin of defeat between 8-14. And when that most likely outcome happens, I hope people realize this is the beginning of the movie training montage, not the end

We shall see

Trust me, I would rather be on your side of the argument. There is no downside. Pels somehow win and you can come out and say how brilliant you were, how nobody believed, etc etc. They lose, and they are supposed to lose. You werent wrong, you were just trying to be positive but of course they were gonna lose.

My side has zero upside. Pels win, I look like a fool. Pels lose and I cant possibly come and say, "See, I was right" without getting flamed and everyone saying "well, no duh!"

Your position is win-win. Mine is lose-lose. The easiest path to being liked and cheered is switching to the other side

lol you might be getting me mixed with the other guy it was never a me vs you thing I’m of the opinion we can take them you believe otherwise and we shall see as time pass it’s that simple if you right cool if your wrong still cool I’m not going to brag if I’m right I’ll say I believed we could for stated reasons and in to the next

No injuries is all I care for deep down.
I've been a NOLA fan too long.
Everything else is gravy.

Nobody is going to turn against the Pelicans if they lose this series. That's ridiculous. We weren't even expected to make the playoffs and are now facing the number one seed. Everyone understands that we are facing long odds. But the beauty of being a fan of a team, isn't about only being on board when your team is a massive favorite.

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

lol you might be getting me mixed with the other guy it was never a me vs you thing I’m of the opinion we can take them you believe otherwise and we shall see as time pass it’s that simple if you right cool if your wrong still cool I’m not going to brag if I’m right I’ll say I believed we could for stated reasons and in to the next

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I didnt mean you as in YOU. I am saying people on your side. Its all upside.

Well...I'd say tonight was a HUGE victory, literally and figuratively.

Even when Booker was on fire, we were answering every time and even countered with a run of our own. BI has the killer instinct. CJ and Val played much better. Nance has been great. Our rookies are stepping up and playing well against elite competition.

Depending on the severity of the Booker injury, expectations for this series may need to be readjusted.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I will always be open to new information. I wont deny truth if it comes along and flies in the face of my past hypothesis.

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go on...

It's only 2 games in and i call it a victory already! We can get greedy though and get some more!

At this point, with Booker out, put Zion back out there and go win this series!

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

At this point, with Booker out, put Zion back out there and go win this series!

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You honestly think if the team thought he could play they wouldn't have done this already, or are you just being sarcastic?

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

You honestly think if the team thought he could play they wouldn't have done this already, or are you just being sarcastic?

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He can play. They just dont think the risk is worth the reward. With Booker possibly out and the Jazz/Mavs winner being mid at best, I say the reward could be the WCF.

The dude aint injured. There is nothing wrong with him. Its just a risk/reward thing, which made sense when it didnt look like they'd make the playoffs. And then it was clear they would make it but probably get smoked. But now you have home court and the opponents top scorer is hurt. There is a massive reward out there.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

He can play. They just dont think the risk is worth the reward. With Booker possibly out and the Jazz/Mavs winner being mid at best, I say the reward could be the WCF.

The dude aint injured. There is nothing wrong with him. Its just a risk/reward thing, which made sense when it didnt look like they'd make the playoffs. And then it was clear they would make it but probably get smoked. But now you have home court and the opponents top scorer is hurt. There is a massive reward out there.

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Yeah I'm not one of those who is going to call him fat, but from the snippets I have seen he doesn't look like he is in shape. I'd love him to play 4-5 minute bursts against their bench though.
If there is no injury, then they are being too cautious and if they do plan on paying him this off season, better to see how he goes with some games.

He has been working out with specialists solely focused on rehabbing him for nearly half a year now.

Do we think him not playing and then going away during the offseason is going to result in him being in better shape when camp starts. This dude will always look out of shape and playing basketball will get him back into shape. How it works with Luka, Jokic, and others.

Again, I understood the risk reward thing when it looked like playoffs was a pipe dream or making a dent in said playoffs was a pipe dream. But right now, this is a WCF team if you add Zion off the bench. And then you get to that point and who knows. Maybe you get Memphis and Curry goes down. You just cant pass up chances like this because you are scared, IMO. Especially if the player is dying to play. You dont force the player, but this kid is begging to play.

Anyway, they wont because they are cowards. But its the wrong call IMO

A win would have been a huge benefit before Booker got hurt and I didn't think we could steal one if they were at full health, but we were going punch for punch with them in the first half when Devin was lit. I don't think we can win this series but the playoff experience alone and having this team gain confidence in themselves and in this staff is immeasurably beneficial.

So focus on doing everything the right way as we have and then maybe you luck into a series you might somehow have a chance to steal. Hope Booker is okay.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

He has been working out with specialists solely focused on rehabbing him for nearly half a year now.

Do we think him not playing and then going away during the offseason is going to result in him being in better shape when camp starts. This dude will always look out of shape and playing basketball will get him back into shape. How it works with Luka, Jokic, and others.

Again, I understood the risk reward thing when it looked like playoffs was a pipe dream or making a dent in said playoffs was a pipe dream. But right now, this is a WCF team if you add Zion off the bench. And then you get to that point and who knows. Maybe you get Memphis and Curry goes down. You just cant pass up chances like this because you are scared, IMO. Especially if the player is dying to play. You dont force the player, but this kid is begging to play.

Anyway, they wont because they are cowards. But its the wrong call IMO

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Or Booker isn't that injured and will only miss game 3.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

He has been working out with specialists solely focused on rehabbing him for nearly half a year now.

Do we think him not playing and then going away during the offseason is going to result in him being in better shape when camp starts. This dude will always look out of shape and playing basketball will get him back into shape. How it works with Luka, Jokic, and others.

Again, I understood the risk reward thing when it looked like playoffs was a pipe dream or making a dent in said playoffs was a pipe dream. But right now, this is a WCF team if you add Zion off the bench. And then you get to that point and who knows. Maybe you get Memphis and Curry goes down. You just cant pass up chances like this because you are scared, IMO. Especially if the player is dying to play. You dont force the player, but this kid is begging to play.

Anyway, they wont because they are cowards. But its the wrong call IMO

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Hoping this is a reverse jinx

The Sporting News: Chris Paul has now lost 14 consecutive playoff games officiated by Scott Foster �� – via Twitter

LOL