Guy You Would Gamble On

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Originally Posted by Tinman

Kelly Olynyk !

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Rockets have his bird rights. It’s the only Rockets talk radio people here in Houston talk about “well, hey, at least we have Kelly Olynyk’s bird rights.” It’s odd, but hey, it’s Houston.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Is Tyler Herro on his way out in with the Heat, because he has been MIA since last season.

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https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/artic...1_127_34677473

Alec Burks would be a decent older guy that can come in and help with our young guards. But the Knicks would likely want to keep him around.

Avery Bradley may fit more of the kick the tires older vet, but he hasn?t been anywhere near his old self. But he could likely help our perimeter defense.

Danny Green could help our 3 point shooting.

I would like to bring in a decent vet guard & power forward for our young guys to learn from. I guess Eric Bledsoe & James Johnson fit that category, but one makes too much money and has to go. And the other wasn?t here all that long and I?m not sure is the guy I want Zion learning from.

I wanted to bring in Al Horford 2 years ago and now that looks like it would of been a bad move especially at the money he got. If. Kevin Love can be had at a really good price he would be ideal for Zion to learn somethings from.

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Originally Posted by Tinman

Kelly Olynyk !

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I have been "Olynyk-ing" since winning the lottery in 2019. Maybe this year?

I think Danny Green would be a good fit, but can't see him dropping down to "fringe playoff team" level. I'd assume there will be contenders interested in him.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/artic...1_127_34677473

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That's what I was thinking.

Even the Nets fans know Kemba Walker is overrated

Ricky Rubio ?
Maybe he will come alive in a new environment. He seems like one of those guys with an attitude that's annoying to play against but quite good to have on your team. One more year on his contract at $17 mil, maybe a Bledsoe swap.

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Originally Posted by KoMikaera

Ricky Rubio ?
Maybe he will come alive in a new environment. He seems like one of those guys with an attitude that's annoying to play against but quite good to have on your team. One more year on his contract at $17 mil, maybe a Bledsoe swap.

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The Suns took a step forward with Rubio last year, only to close the deal with Paul this year. I wouldn't mind a year or two with Rubio at the controls waiting for Kira to make it or break it.

If the Clippers bomb out in the first round does Leonard count?

Haha

I wonder why the Clippers have not played Luke Kennard at all. All season long he was averaged double digit minutes (almost 20 minutes per) and shot 44% from three. If they are disenchanted with him, I'd love to work out a sign and trade for JHart and sit Kennard in the corner to knock down the skinny three. He is a lifetime 40%+ flamethrower, and an 86% free throw shooter.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

You look at some of the surprise teams this year and last and a big reason they overachieved is because they took a gamble on a non sure thing. A guy the league thought was washed or not worth his contract or a guy who underperformed based on draft expectations, etc. CP3 was massively overpaid - that was the narrative in Houston, and since then he has helped 2 franchises vastly outperform expectations. Julius Randle and Derrick Rose are catalysts for the Knicks. Blake gave Brooklyn great minutes. Clarkson was thought of as a chucker and Utah leaned into that and made him a 6th man. Denver gambled on a kid in the draft who was a #1 HS prospect but had potential chronic injury concerns. On and on.

At some point, we will have to gamble on a guy who is undervalued relative to his ceiling, and hope he pays off. Looking at the landscape this offseason, who could be that guy for you? To give an example of how 'Buy Low' I am talking -- mine would be Kevin Love. I think the days of him being a major piece on a contender is over. And that is why I dont think contenders trade for him. His attitude will prevent rebuilding teams from bringing him in. But I truly believe that if he gets re-engaged and put in the right role, he could win 6th Man of the Year and average something absurd like 26/14 per 36. The key would be staying healthy and playing 65+ games a year. But what was the point of getting Aaron Nelson if he cant do what he did for Grant Hill in Phoenix? Love is my guy. Adams and Bledsoe for Love would be fine by me. Adams, Bledsoe, Iwundu, and multiple good 2nds for Love and Nance would be better.

Who would you gamble on?

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I no particular order:

As free agents:

Reggie Jackson
Jeff Teague
Evan Fournier
Reggie Bullock
Otto Porter
Glen Robinson III

Trade:

Delon Wright, Harrison Barnes and filler for Adams, Bledsoe and 2021 2nd round picks 34,38 and 43.

They aren't going to pay Holmes the 20M he wants in FA so Adams fits a need for them and the picks are for taking Bled.

We don't have 38 anymore, Chicago swap with us. We get bloody 40

https://tradenba.com/trades/ncHIRlOHr

Not sure if Minny would do this without a FRP but.... Resign Lonzo, probably let go of Hart or S&T for a decent stretch 4 or 5. Draft whoever then rock out with this team.

PG: Kemba Walker, Kira
SG: Lonzo, NAW, Didi
SF: Ingram, Marshall, Draft pick
PF: Zion, FA player or player from S&T
C: Hayes, Hernangomez, Draft pick or FA

Anyone say Hardaway Jr yet? He’s a free agent I think

That Payne guy from PHX had himself a hell of a night when CP3 went down. He is a FA too this summer. Just putting it out there

There are a lot of FAs this summer. Several guys who might get traded too. I was specifically looking for guys who are at the lowest point (or close) of their league wide value. Guys like Hardaway and Payne might be at their all time high. But we can talk about them too, I suppose

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Originally Posted by As I See It

The Suns took a step forward with Rubio last year, only to close the deal with Paul this year. I wouldn't mind a year or two with Rubio at the controls waiting for Kira to make it or break it.

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Rubio? Ugh. Looking at his numbers he phoned it in worse than Eric Bledsoe.

Frank Nlikina (spelling) is a guy who's been dumpster Ed by the NBA but was touted as a really long, defensive guard. I'd take him cheap and work him into a point-Zion lineup and give Vincent some time to get his shot working better. Just a thought.

reggie jackson and nichnolas batun both shot well this season and are FA. I'd like em

Ben Simmons close to being Lebron James ? “One jump shot away” Stephen A Smith.

Agree? Should we go this route?

I?m guessing that is a no on Ben Simmons

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Originally Posted by BigChris504

Whatever it takes to acquire C.J. McCullum........ WHATEVER IT TAKES!!!!!!!!!!!

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LOL

Let?s get another version of Eric Bledsoe

Pretty safe to say CJ McCollum would be a low buy at this stage, no?

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Pretty safe to say CJ McCollum would be a low buy at this stage, no?

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Buy lower than his all time peak price? Maybe

Buy low? No way. I think it would take matching salary, one of the young prospects and 3 firsts to get him

I think it safe to say that McCollum benefits from playing with one of the top three guards in basketball as his running mate. I'll agree he would make a nice co-pilot guard, but the jury is out for me on whether he can drive the bus alone.

(In general, I don't understand the fascination people have in undersized guards who are a defensive liability and who can be easily posted up).

You need to look up his stats when Lillard was out a year ot two ago. Were Lillard like with even better efficiency

28, 6, and 5 in 33 games without Lillard. Won over .500 too.

I could see a world in which he is better without him because he gets to touch the ball more. There are stretches in games where he wont touch it for 4 or 5 possessions. Which is awful for a volume scorer, trying to get into a groove

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Buy lower than his all time peak price? Maybe

Buy low? No way. I think it would take matching salary, one of the young prospects and 3 firsts to get him

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Hmm. So assuming Portland is willing, would you do it?

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Buy lower than his all time peak price? Maybe

Buy low? No way. I think it would take matching salary, one of the young prospects and 3 firsts to get him

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I'd pass at that price.

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Originally Posted by RUFshreve

I'd pass at that price.

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I actually think McCollum is one of the more over-rated guys in the league, rather than the underrated gambles this thread is supposed to be aimed at. Maybe I just have a weird perspective on CJs value though, maybe he's not as highly rated as I think

Wouldnt you have to know the rating to determine whether you think a guy is overrated or underrated?

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Hmm. So assuming Portland is willing, would you do it?

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I wouldnt. The guy I would personally go all in for has to be at least a B-plus defensively. I already got two guys who i think are horrible on defense. Only way Id want a CJ type is if Ingram went out in that trade or another one

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Wouldnt you have to know the rating to determine whether you think a guy is overrated or underrated?

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Well, since nobody has a complete and comprehensive valuation of every player made up from the collated and compared ratings of every fan, it's possible that I do have a sense of a player's rating but that other people have a different sense due to being exposed to different opinions.

Most people I see talking about CJ rate him very highly and seem to think he's been robbed of multiple allstar appearances and is one of the top 5 SGs in the league or so, but maybe that's not representative of the larger conversation surrounding him and is just an artifact of the sort of people I've seen talking about CJ.

That's what I mean. I think he's overrated, based on what conversations I've seen, but maybe I've just seen weird conversations and other people generally rate him much lower.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Well, since nobody has a complete and comprehensive valuation of every player made up from the collated and compared ratings of every fan, it's possible that I do have a sense of a player's rating but that other people have a different sense due to being exposed to different opinions.

Most people I see talking about CJ rate him very highly and seem to think he's been robbed of multiple allstar appearances and is one of the top 5 SGs in the league or so, but maybe that's not representative of the larger conversation surrounding him and is just an artifact of the sort of people I've seen talking about CJ.

That's what I mean. I think he's overrated, based on what conversations I've seen, but maybe I've just seen weird conversations and other people generally rate him much lower.

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It was a cheeky way of making a point that I dont understand why people use 'underrated' and 'overrated' when, as you admit, we dont have agreed upon ratings. Why not just say what we think of a player without involving this percieived, unprovable thing? Because, in all likelihood, what you have seen is going to be a product of selective reading/hearing at best, and at worst its just a far too small of sample size to project what the collective thinks.

This idea of vague others dominates how most talk about sports, from 'overrated and underrated' to the phrases 'Nobody talks about' or 'Everyone thinks/says' etc. It is the definition of creating a strawman to then make a point off this fake thing. I just dont get why its done and its become a massive part of NBA fan vocabulary the last 5 years. You heard 'overrated and underrated' in the 90s and 2000s but this use of strawmen in nearly every argument is a relatively new thing and I dont get why it seems so necessary. Just say, "I dont think CJ is a massive difference maker, and I definitely dont think he is worth that price. I would rather use the assets elsewhere"

To those that want to get rid of Ingram. How about this trade as a start?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y5g3f5qm

Or Paul George?

https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/...orge/96524396/

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Originally Posted by DaPelFromHell

Alec Burks would be a decent older guy that can come in and help with our young guards. But the Knicks would likely want to keep him around.

Avery Bradley may fit more of the kick the tires older vet, but he hasn?t been anywhere near his old self. But he could likely help our perimeter defense.

Danny Green could help our 3 point shooting.

I would like to bring in a decent vet guard & power forward for our young guys to learn from. I guess Eric Bledsoe & James Johnson fit that category, but one makes too much money and has to go. And the other wasn?t here all that long and I?m not sure is the guy I want Zion learning from.

I wanted to bring in Al Horford 2 years ago and now that looks like it would of been a bad move especially at the money he got. If. Kevin Love can be had at a really good price he would be ideal for Zion to learn somethings from.

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Alec Burks would be a fantastic fit IMO, won?t break the bank, plays SG and SF, shot 42% from 3 this year on 5 attempts again and is a decent defender. If he strictly player SG he would be even better defensively because of his size. I think he would fit in great

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

28, 6, and 5 in 33 games without Lillard. Won over .500 too.

I could see a world in which he is better without him because he gets to touch the ball more. There are stretches in games where he wont touch it for 4 or 5 possessions. Which is awful for a volume scorer, trying to get into a groove

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Agreed, McCollum has a James harden type game and since he’s playing next to a better guard than himself in lillard it kind of drops his game. If McCollum went somewhere where he was the lead guard he’d put up numbers as good as any other guard in the league offensively IMO

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

To those that want to get rid of Ingram. How about this trade as a start?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y5g3f5qm

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As much as I like Simmons, he’s like Zion in which he needs to be surrounded by shooters, so his lack of shooting wouldn’t be a good fit here

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Agreed, McCollum has a James harden type game and since he’s playing next to a better guard than himself in lillard it kind of drops his game. If McCollum went somewhere where he was the lead guard he’d put up numbers as good as any other guard in the league offensively IMO

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Disagree honestly, I think his off-ball game is just on a level below all of those elite offensive guards like Curry and Beal, and he's nothing like the playmaker most of those guys are either. Lillard isn't even a top shelf playmaker but he makes McCollum look like a black hole in comparison.

So, I know you guys are all grain of salt, whatever but I have it on good authority the two top targets (that Griff feels are possible) this offseason are Beal and Sabonis. We have been down the Beal road before, so I will open it up for Sabonis. What is the MOST you would give up for him? Not the trade you would offer or want to make but the one that would hurt but you would still pull the trigger over not doing it? And from there, how would you complete the offseason (lets assume Indy does not want Adams back in the trade as part of this exercise)

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Disagree honestly, I think his off-ball game is just on a level below all of those elite offensive guards like Curry and Beal, and he's nothing like the playmaker most of those guys are either. Lillard isn't even a top shelf playmaker but he makes McCollum look like a black hole in comparison.

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Agree on this but I also never called him a playmaker but the dude can get buckets with the best of them IMO

If you love Eric Bledsoe “s defense you will love CJ’s defense

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

LOL

Let?s get another version of Eric Bledsoe

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I don't even know where to start with this one. 😂 Man if we replaced Eric Bledsoe with C.J. McCollum this season we watching the Pels on TNT at this moment bro, and I'll say that with conviction!!! Like come on dude, you can't compare every player that goes through slumps to Bled.

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Originally Posted by BigChris504

I don't even know where to start with this one. �� Man if we replaced Eric Bledsoe with C.J. McCollum this season we watching the Pels on TNT at this moment bro, and I'll say that with conviction!!! Like come on dude, you can't compare every player that goes through slumps to Bled.

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Okay

Solomon Hill

Terry Stotts and CJ McCollum in China next year pic.twitter.com/1PpvdaSvhZ

— NBA Memes (@NBAMemes) June 4, 2021

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Agree on this but I also never called him a playmaker but the dude can get buckets with the best of them IMO

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Sure but assists are part of the offensive numbers he would supposedly put up, no?

The main reason you can’t compare Bledsoe to McCollum is Bledsoe is supposed to be an elite defender.