February 12th - New Orleans Pelicans @ Dallas Mavericks - 11-13

2 guys are beating us again tonight. Don’t let him beat you, period. If he has 30 assists then so be it but we can’t keep letting Doncic/Lavine beat you.

STOP HELPING OFF THESE GUYS!!! WTF

Only GOOD consistent guys on this team is Adams and Zion for what they do.

Luka with a career high. #PelsLife

Well, at least Zion got more shots than Lonzo tonight. That's an improvement.

Don’t worry everyone. They are still growing. Growing since 2012.

We need to work on double and recover. Don’t let a guy touch the ball and if he does double him till he gets rid of it.

Ok this is now the blueprint to beat us. 2 games in a row of franchise records for 3's in a game, and letting TWO guys blister your ****** all night from 3.

These guys should be doing 2 a days on perimeter defense now every damn day.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Well, at least Zion got more shots than Lonzo tonight. That's an improvement.

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Haha! that's pathethic for a team especially when they know they have a guy shooting over 60% from the field. Either they are stupid or stubborn to not get the ball to him.

Two 30 point players and we lose by 13. SMH

Luka had more points than all of our guards put together.

Adams averaging 4 rebounds over the last four games (no defensive rebounds tonight).

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Originally Posted by ragincaucasian

Ok this is now the blueprint to beat us. 2 games in a row of franchise records for 3's in a game, and letting TWO guys blister your ****** all night from 3.

These guys should be doing 2 a days on perimeter defense now every damn day.

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Exactly. It’s not a coincidence. Coaches are telling players that Pels don’t guard the three. Seems to be a true statement.

I can't believe this dinosaur is our coach man

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

I can't believe this dinosaur is our coach man

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Yeah he hadn’t adapted to the modern game. It may take him a while to be honest. He’s been out of coaching for a bit. He’s clearly not used to all five players shooting on the other team.

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Originally Posted by Fedupfan

Exactly. It’s not a coincidence. Coaches are telling players that Pels don’t guard the three. Seems to be a true statement.

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Stan's philosophy is to let the other team live and die by the 3 while protecting the paint but somehow we cant do either of the two. I wanted Gentry gone too..but Stan is not It.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

He's also probably 6'7" 250, and knows how to use his girth.

But he shouldn't be able to tortoise past 2 defenders. And we seem to hate doubling anyone until it's too late.

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I hate being right about this stuff, but stupid is as stupid does.

They dont try to double or trap him until 4 minutes left in the game. They go over screens instead of under. They dont even switch on him until the 4th.

A lowly fan should not be able to outcoach an NBA head coach.

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Originally Posted by PelicanNation

Stan's philosophy is to let the other team live and die by the 3 while protecting the paint but somehow we cant do either of the two. I wanted Gentry gone too..but Stan is not It.

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Unfortunately we're stuck with him.. I seriously doubt he gets fired after one season.

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Originally Posted by PelicanNation

Stan's philosophy is to let the other team live and die by the 3 while protecting the paint but somehow we cant do either of the two. I wanted Gentry gone too..but Stan is not It.

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Oh yeah. He’s far from it. He can’t relate to the modern game at all.

Dallas' top 2 guys take 51 shots. Pelicans top 2 guys take 38. For some reason Lonzo takes 12 (10 of them 3s) while Zion can't miss.


In other news, the Pistons are about to the Celtics, and the rookie I was VERY high on, Saddiq Bey, turns in the rookie performance of the year.

He has 30 points on 10-12 shooting, and 7-7 behind the 3 pt line.

Woulda been nice to nab Kira then package and move up to 19 to take Bey.

The Clippers beat the Bulls and somehow only allow them to make 12 threes.

Meanwhile Pelicans last 2 teams are 50/92 behind the line. That has to be some kind of NBA record.

Defensively, unless Adams has at least one foot in the paint, he's a detriment. (come to think of it, offensively, too)

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Defensively, unless Adams has at least one foot in the paint, he's a detriment. (come to think of it, offensively, too)

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On paper the trade looked good..but we may have got fleeced .Wish we could get a Myles Turner like center to pair with Zion..protect the paint and stretch the floor..not to many of those floating around though.

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Originally Posted by PelicanNation

On paper the trade looked good..but we may have got fleeced .Wish we could get a Myles Turner like center to pair with Zion..protect the paint and stretch the floor..not to many of those floating around though.

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We could have gotten Aron Baynes on a two year deal for 8MM per year. And, we wouldn't have had to give up anything as he was a free agent.

In reality we should now have Christian Wood, but that ship has sailed, too.

The issue is as others have said- we don’t just leave shooters open. We leave them WIDE open. Very frequently. Early in the season when the players bought in, we somehow made it work. Now that the players have pumped the breaks on that side of the ball, it has been horribly exposed.

Teams don’t even need to move the ball against us. They just run pick and roll or drive and kick- wide open shooter every time. The players are either gambling too much or Stan has got it horribly wrong. I think it’s a combination of both. And no, I don’t think Stan should get the same excuse Gentry got for some strange reason (the players are too dumb to run his super complex scheme). BS. There are coaches that come in day one and instill their defensive philosophy. We look a mess like we always have as a franchise. Sort it out.

It's entirely on coaching. No other reason on earth for us to consistently deprioritize the 3. Point blank. There's no way for us to evaluate the variance in "buy in" from one game to the next, and I doubt players players just suddenly decide to stop caring to that extent. Stan needs to cut this gimmick stuff out, not working

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

It's entirely on coaching. No other reason on earth for us to consistently deprioritize the 3. Point blank. There's no way for us to evaluate the variance in "buy in" from one game to the next, and I doubt players players just suddenly decide to stop caring to that extent. Stan needs to cut this gimmick stuff out, not working

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There is absolutely a buy in factor. Players like Bledsoe don?t suddenly become wack defensive players on a whim. Having said that, Stan is certainly not excused and he needs to find a remedy for this comedy of errors we see every night.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

There is absolutely a buy in factor. Players like Bledsoe don?t suddenly become wack defensive players on a whim. Having said that, Stan is certainly not excused and he needs to find a remedy for this comedy of errors we see every night.

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Actually, you're right, and I was thinking that if there was a player the concept of buy in related to, it was Bledsoe. Dude was an all nba defender last year, and seemingly plays with no pride now. Offers very little resistance, on or off ball. I wish we could've moved him yesterday, and I'm honestly regretting the trade more and more (for a variety of reasons)

Not to be too negative, this team can absolutely be better than this. But by and large I do blame Stan, enough is enough.

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

Actually, you're right, and I was thinking that if there was a player the concept of buy in related to, it was Bledsoe. Dude was an all nba defender last year, and seemingly plays with no pride now. Offers very little resistance, on or off ball. I wish we could've moved him yesterday, and I'm honestly regretting the trade more and more (for a variety of reasons)

Not to be too negative, this team can absolutely be better than this. But by and large I do blame Stan, enough is enough.

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I blame Stan too. But Geez Bled is actually upsetting me with some of his shenanigans. For instance, one play Lonzo has the man at the top of the circle and first thing Bled does is step up towards the same man because he?s the closest guy to him. Meanwhile somebody is sitting wide open in the corner and Lonzo LITERALLY had to shove his own teammate to get him into position. The guy seems done mentally. At least he is hitting 3?s

LeBron puppet gm making inept hires and getting carried by world class talent and can't built a roster to save his life and drafted Anthony Bennett. Hire washed up old school coach that drove Detroit into the ground that don't seem to use any game planning analytics or common sense.

#Pelslife #EmotionalAF

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

Stan needs to throw away this gimmick garbage defense, this "protect the paint at all costs thing," it's not working.

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A ********ing men

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Originally Posted by PelicanNation

On paper the trade looked good..but we may have got fleeced .Wish we could get a Myles Turner like center to pair with Zion..protect the paint and stretch the floor..not to many of those floating around though.

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We didn't get fleeced. Adams is really good

But Griffin's unholy obsession with one dimensional centres is going to make me stab my throat with a Wii Numchuck

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Originally Posted by sterlr

BI did it again. Zion had a guy pinned under the basket and just waves the 99.9% guy off.

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Not just anyone, it was Luka which Zion has a serious size advantage over

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Originally Posted by PelicanNation

Stan's philosophy is to let the other team live and die by the 3 while protecting the paint but somehow we cant do either of the two. I wanted Gentry gone too..but Stan is not It.

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It was a good philosophy back in the day when teams didn?t have their PFs and center shooting 40% for 3, that doesn?t work in this nba anymore though.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

We didn't get fleeced. Adams is really good

But Griffin's unholy obsession with one dimensional centres is going to make me stab my throat with a Wii Numchuck

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This, Adam’s is a beast, good rebounder and defender who has a good enough post game, he isn’t the problem. Hell our team is nice, Bledsoe looks good, so does Lonzo and BI and Zion. The team has been playing well. Starting to think the problem is SVG but let’s not forget we also went on a 5 game streak with a very young team. I’m undecided. We’re gonna have growing pains. I hope we spend one more years letting our young guys get much better and real minutes and still landing a top 5 pick and getting an absolute stud like Suggs or Jalen Green. This time would be like the Thunder when they had Durant Westbrook Ibaka and harden in a couple years.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

A ********ing men

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My view on it is quite simple:

It's a good defensive strategy but one that requires you to have a roster capable of doing a few particular things that this roster doesn't have.

It worked in Milwaukee because they had a lot of tall, lengthy guys with good footspeed and pretty good court recognition. The guys who didn't have that were playing easier roles, such as Lopez basically sitting in the paint, and at least he still had the length and the height. Giannis, who is huge and very mobile, was allowed to play freely in a lot of ways, while the elite 6'7 defender in Middleton usually took on other elite wings.

When you have those pieces, protecting the paint at all costs is the smartest thing you can do: it's just analytically sound.

We don't have those pieces. Our Giannis is Zion; he's not 6'11 and he's only played 48 games - the defensive recognition is just not there yet. Our Middleton is Ingram who is just not the same calibre of defender, whatever else you think of him. Our Lopez is Adams but there's been a mistake: on the Bucks, Lopez being the guy stuck in the middle made sense because he had the lowest footspeed and the least defensive feel, so he paired his height with the easiest job; on the Pelicans, Adams is probably our most defensively aware guy most of the team but he's playing this limited role.

For us, it's just not working; we don't have the roster for it. Change it up a bit.

Gotta admit, this is the first loss in a little while where I've felt kind of exasperated after it. No real excuse for it, hard to justify, just a bad game. Like, yes, Porzingis was hot and shot far better from 3 than he has done all year, and so did Luka. But we were failing to cover Dorian Finney Smith? C'mon now.

That's the first time this season we've given up more than 140 points, and we did it to the team 17th in ORtg. Just not acceptable.

On the plus side, I guess, you can say that Zion shot 8/11 from the line again, so his FT% improvements continue (he's at 79.5% for the month of Feb so far) and shooting 14/15 gives him yet another game scoring at least 25pts on better than 85% from the field; the highest number of such games for a player of his age of all time, I believe.

He also is the youngest player in NBA history to have a 30pt game while shooting 90% or better from the floor.

His 8th 30pt game tonight also ties him with Blake Griffin and Lebron James for the most 30pt games within their first 48 for all active players.

He was also the first Pelicans player ever to start a game 10/10 from the floor.

Going 14/14 from the paint, Zion made the most makes without a miss in the paint of any player since Hakeem went 15/15 in 1998.

The Pelicans as a team have given up 48 made threes in their last two games: the most of any two-game span in NBA history. BAD.

Zion has been amazing offensively and has been passing well lately...my question is, what has happened with his rebounding numbers?

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Originally Posted by PaKwAn

Zion has been amazing offensively and has been passing well lately...my question is, what has happened with his rebounding numbers?

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He's being used mroe like a wing and less like a big. His stats reflect that.

He's played 24 games this season so far. In the first 12, he was being used a lot more like a ''big'' in a sense, where the vast majority of his offense came off ball and he was crashing the offensive glass a lot. The result is that his box score averages were 23.4/8.0/1.8 on 59.1% from the floor and 63.9% from the line.

In the 12 games since, we've started tilting him more heavily towards a ball handler role, and the result has been an increase in his overall efficiency and an improvement in overall team-offense, at the cost of some of that rebounding. In the last 12 games, hes' averaged 25.2/5.7/4.1 on 63.8% from the floor and 75.2% from the line.

It's just a stylistic thing. The interesting thing to note is where that rebounding has gone from: it's mostly the offensive glass. He's lost about 2.5 rebounds a game since his playstyle changed, and whilst about 1 of those has been defensive, the biggest loss has been offense: he's lost about 1.4 offensive boards a game despite (obviously) getting fewer of them a game in the first place. That tells you quite a lot about the locations he's in on offense; since he's driving and kicking a lot and he attracts defenders so far out, it's fairly common for the ball to leave his hands to a shooter/cutter/big when he's still near the FT line and for him to be reasonable far away from the basket when the rebound happens as a result. Previously, when he was mostly a play finisher, he was always right at the rim (usually for his own misses) and went straight up to get it.

I'm not that worried about it, honestly. I'll take the doubling of his playmaking, an improved team offense, and the defensive improvements he's made over a handful of rebounds here and there.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

My view on it is quite simple:

It's a good defensive strategy but one that requires you to have a roster capable of doing a few particular things that this roster doesn't have.

It worked in Milwaukee because they had a lot of tall, lengthy guys with good footspeed and pretty good court recognition. The guys who didn't have that were playing easier roles, such as Lopez basically sitting in the paint, and at least he still had the length and the height. Giannis, who is huge and very mobile, was allowed to play freely in a lot of ways, while the elite 6'7 defender in Middleton usually took on other elite wings.

When you have those pieces, protecting the paint at all costs is the smartest thing you can do: it's just analytically sound.

We don't have those pieces. Our Giannis is Zion; he's not 6'11 and he's only played 48 games - the defensive recognition is just not there yet. Our Middleton is Ingram who is just not the same calibre of defender, whatever else you think of him. Our Lopez is Adams but there's been a mistake: on the Bucks, Lopez being the guy stuck in the middle made sense because he had the lowest footspeed and the least defensive feel, so he paired his height with the easiest job; on the Pelicans, Adams is probably our most defensively aware guy most of the team but he's playing this limited role.

For us, it's just not working; we don't have the roster for it. Change it up a bit.

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The good thing is that Adams's contract is the perfect filler money wise the next two years

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Gotta admit, this is the first loss in a little while where I've felt kind of exasperated after it. No real excuse for it, hard to justify, just a bad game. Like, yes, Porzingis was hot and shot far better from 3 than he has done all year, and so did Luka. But we were failing to cover Dorian Finney Smith? C'mon now.

That's the first time this season we've given up more than 140 points, and we did it to the team 17th in ORtg. Just not acceptable.

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Whenever we let anyone get hot from three in the first quarter of the opposing team, it just spills out to the whole team

Just play a box and 1

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Originally Posted by PaKwAn

Zion has been amazing offensively and has been passing well lately...my question is, what has happened with his rebounding numbers?

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I love the Zion nitpicking, as if it's the major flaw of the team

Every team just becomes the best shooting team in the league from deep. Remarkable. But whatever. I had Fogo de Ch?o last night so I was beyond good.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Every team just becomes the best shooting team in the league from deep. Remarkable. But whatever. I had Fogo de Ch?o last night so I was beyond good.

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I reckon it's something to do with the psychology of seeing your shot drop early. It's intangible but it's ********ing real

I would tell the team to swarm heavily in the 1st. "Getting your eye in" is a real phenomena

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Originally Posted by AusPel

I reckon it's something to do with the psychology of seeing your shot drop early. It's intangible but it's ********ing real

I would tell the team to swarm heavily in the 1st. "Getting your eye in" is a real phenomena

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100% right. It’s not a coincidence. The Pels leave guys open long enough to start games for them to gain confidence and a rhythm. Anyone who plays basketball knows that once you stop feeling the defense, it becomes just a gym session. That’s what happened with the Bulls and Mavs. They were at a shoot around. Pels waited way too long to play tight defense.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

He's being used mroe like a wing and less like a big. His stats reflect that.

He's played 24 games this season so far. In the first 12, he was being used a lot more like a ''big'' in a sense, where the vast majority of his offense came off ball and he was crashing the offensive glass a lot. The result is that his box score averages were 23.4/8.0/1.8 on 59.1% from the floor and 63.9% from the line.

In the 12 games since, we've started tilting him more heavily towards a ball handler role, and the result has been an increase in his overall efficiency and an improvement in overall team-offense, at the cost of some of that rebounding. In the last 12 games, hes' averaged 25.2/5.7/4.1 on 63.8% from the floor and 75.2% from the line.

It's just a stylistic thing. The interesting thing to note is where that rebounding has gone from: it's mostly the offensive glass. He's lost about 2.5 rebounds a game since his playstyle changed, and whilst about 1 of those has been defensive, the biggest loss has been offense: he's lost about 1.4 offensive boards a game despite (obviously) getting fewer of them a game in the first place. That tells you quite a lot about the locations he's in on offense; since he's driving and kicking a lot and he attracts defenders so far out, it's fairly common for the ball to leave his hands to a shooter/cutter/big when he's still near the FT line and for him to be reasonable far away from the basket when the rebound happens as a result. Previously, when he was mostly a play finisher, he was always right at the rim (usually for his own misses) and went straight up to get it.

I'm not that worried about it, honestly. I'll take the doubling of his playmaking, an improved team offense, and the defensive improvements he's made over a handful of rebounds here and there.

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I prefer this wing style zion anyway since it unleashes a lot of what zion can do with the ball and gives defenses a lot more of problems to deal with... love the passing from him as well since it gives defense caution in doubling or crowding on him.. he was never a great rebounder but even if used more as a wing now i would still like to see that effort to grab some boards since that could unlock another threat in him where he can grab a rebound and go coast to coast.

Just ran the numbers

So far this season Zion is averaging 36 points per 100 on 65.1%TS.

The list of players to ever do that for a full season is as follows:

- Stephen Curry (2015-16, 2017-18, this year)
- Adrian Dantley (1983-84)
- Amare Stoudemire (2007-8)
- Kevin Durant (2016-17)

That's your list.

If you drop the numbers a bit, and look at the people who have done 35 points per 100 on 63%TS, you get:

- Kevin Durant 5 more times
- Giannis in his first MVP season
- Curry once more
- Lebron 3 times
- Dantley twice more
- Barkley twice

This is elite scoring company, my friends.

Before anyone asks where notorious scorers like Jordan or Kobe or Shaq are on this list, the answer is simple: efficiency. MJ's career high TS% was 61.4%, in '88-'89, so he doesn't qualify. Kobe never had a season above 58%TS, and while Shaq did hit over 60% TS four times in his career, two of those years came when he was in Boston and in Phoenix, so the volume was way down; the other years were his second season in Orlando, where he scored 37.1 points per 100 but only just scraped over 60%TS at 60.5%, and his 2002-3 season in LA which was the same deal. 37.7points per 100 on 60.2%TS.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Just ran the numbers

So far this season Zion is averaging 36 points per 100 on 65.1%TS.

The list of players to ever do that for a full season is as follows:

- Stephen Curry (2015-16, 2017-18, this year)
- Adrian Dantley (1983-84)
- Amare Stoudemire (2007-8)
- Kevin Durant (2016-17)

That's your list.

If you drop the numbers a bit, and look at the people who have done 35 points per 100 on 63%TS, you get:

- Kevin Durant 5 more times
- Giannis in his first MVP season
- Curry once more
- Lebron 3 times
- Dantley twice more
- Barkley twice

This is elite scoring company, my friends.

Before anyone asks where notorious scorers like Jordan or Kobe or Shaq are on this list, the answer is simple: efficiency. MJ's career high TS% was 61.4%, in '88-'89, so he doesn't qualify. Kobe never had a season above 58%TS, and while Shaq did hit over 60% TS four times in his career, two of those years came when he was in Boston and in Phoenix, so the volume was way down; the other years were his second season in Orlando, where he scored 37.1 points per 100 but only just scraped over 60%TS at 60.5%, and his 2002-3 season in LA which was the same deal. 37.7points per 100 on 60.2%TS.

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Zion is all time. That's great.

About the rest of the team

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

This, Adam’s is a beast, good rebounder and defender who has a good enough post game, he isn’t the problem. Hell our team is nice, Bledsoe looks good, so does Lonzo and BI and Zion. The team has been playing well. Starting to think the problem is SVG but let’s not forget we also went on a 5 game streak with a very young team. I’m undecided. We’re gonna have growing pains. I hope we spend one more years letting our young guys get much better and real minutes and still landing a top 5 pick and getting an absolute stud like Suggs or Jalen Green. This time would be like the Thunder when they had Durant Westbrook Ibaka and harden in a couple years.

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Agreed. I'm annoyed about the worst defense of all time, but also happy we get closer to a top 5 pick

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Zion is all time. That's great.

About the rest of the team

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I've made my thoughts very clear about the rest of the team.

Lonzo should be traded, Bledsoe should be traded, Redick should be traded. Kira should get more run, and so should NAW. Hart shouldn't be on the block but he's not untouchable if a good offer comes in. Melli should go if anyone wants him at all, but that's unlikely.

Not really sure what you expect me to do, unless you just want me to complain some more about how Ingram struggles getting over screens and Bledsoe seems to have quit on defense altogether at times.

Edit: I also think it's kind of weird how flippant we are about Zion's greatness. The media still pulls up him for highlights every now and again, and obviously they're quick to use a name to get some clicks but there's no talk about Zion being legitimately great. Which he is. He gets none of the same hype that someone like Luka got despite being already tiers higher as a scorer, and it can't be because Zion's defense has been shaky so far because so was Luka's the first two years.

Then on this board, what other fanbase has a historically great player like Zion and responds like ''yeah he's all time, cool, who cares; what about Josh Hart?''

It's weird.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Not really sure what you expect me to do, unless you just want me to complain some more about how Ingram struggles getting over screens and Bledsoe seems to have quit on defense altogether at times.

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....or that Zion is a train wreck defensively; so bad, in fact, that he has to be subbed out situationally at the end of close games. No?