Rumor: Griff. is still shopping

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Originally Posted by Snarly

The Mavs traded a 2020 2nd for WCS, you’re telling me we couldn’t get in on that?

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Not sure if they Pels would even want him. He did not draw much attention as a FA and the Kings did not try to keep him.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Which is why there was never any chance the Bulls would trade him. He is part of their future.

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Nice pick up for the price, but doesn't fit Pelican Profile (just like he didn't fit Warrior Profile)

Don't forget we still have Didi.

I think we should keep Jah at least for 1 offseason so that while Zion is working on his 3pt shot and conditioning, that he also spends time at the Okafor Academy of Silky Post-Moves

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Originally Posted by akhan786

I think we should keep Jah at least for 1 offseason so that while Zion is working on his 3pt shot and conditioning, that he also spends time at the Okafor Academy of Silky Post-Moves

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Zion is a better post scorer than Okafor is, and has better finishing at the rim.

I mean. Zion will be a better post scorer than Jah but we can't say that he is now. He's played two games. The Spurs did an amazing job shielding him from the basket. Those four 3s were absolutely stellar but they happened because SA had successfully stymied Zion inside. He has a lot to learn. And Jah does have this silky smooth style whereas Zion is more lighting fast with bullish strength. As he gets older, Zion will need to go to the silkiness as his speed diminishes.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

I mean. Zion will be a better post scorer than Jah but we can't say that he is now. He's played two games. The Spurs did an amazing job shielding him from the basket. Those four 3s were absolutely stellar but they happened because SA had successfully stymied Zion inside. He has a lot to learn. And Jah does have this silky smooth style whereas Zion is more lighting fast with bullish strength. As he gets older, Zion will need to go to the silkiness as his speed diminishes.

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I'm not going out of my way to keep Okafor here now as prep for when Zion's speed starts dropping off, 9 or 10 years in the future.

That said, I absolutely can say that Zion is a better post scorer than Jah, for a few reasons. First is college, where Zion showed off consistent post ability at a level equal to Jah's or better in far more minutes than Jah's been playing in the NBA (admittedly against comparatively lesser opposition). Secondly (and more importantly) is that Zion has a skill that's incredibly valuable that Jah doesn't; the ability to turn everything into a layup.

If you get Jah posting someone up 8 feet from the basket, he may be able to hit the spin move into a dunk, but fairly often we see him resorting to floaters and hook shots. Now, he's fairly good at those, but 'good' at hook shots is still relatively bad compared to layups: Zion, by comparison, has an uncanny knack and sense of body control that lets him turn post shots into at-rim attempts rather than farther paint shots.

Maybe I'm getting on the horse a little early with this, and I can understand why you'd want to let the sample size build up a bit more, but I legit think Zion has more ability to translate a post-touch into a successful scoring possession than Okafor does, today.

The sample size is two games. We've already seen in one of those Zion's post game get dismantled. The other one was ok. But we also saw Jah absolutely destroy the Nuggets twice when Zion just did ok against them.

College is irrelevant. So we have a two game sample size that all points to Jah. It's a weird argument because Zion will eventually be one of the best post players of all time but for not this is like saying the best college football team xould beat an NFL team. Zion could learn a lot from Jah. I wouldn't keep Jah here just for that, either. But Jah is still young and has a lot to offer on his own.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

The sample size is two games. We've already seen in one of those Zion's post game get dismantled. The other one was ok. But we also saw Jah absolutely destroy the Nuggets twice when Zion just did ok against them.

College is irrelevant. So we have a two game sample size that all points to Jah. It's a weird argument because Zion will eventually be one of the best post players of all time but for not this is like saying the best college football team xould beat an NFL team. Zion could learn a lot from Jah. I wouldn't keep Jah here just for that, either. But Jah is still young and has a lot to offer on his own.

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This

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

The sample size is two games. We've already seen in one of those Zion's post game get dismantled. The other one was ok. But we also saw Jah absolutely destroy the Nuggets twice when Zion just did ok against them.

College is irrelevant. So we have a two game sample size that all points to Jah. It's a weird argument because Zion will eventually be one of the best post players of all time but for not this is like saying the best college football team xould beat an NFL team. Zion could learn a lot from Jah. I wouldn't keep Jah here just for that, either. But Jah is still young and has a lot to offer on his own.

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Part of a post game is the ability to pass out from the post. In the Spurs game, Zion got doubled from the first touch and consistently made good reads and passes out to shooters and cutters; Jah isn't capable of that. While it's true that Zion only registered 3 assists in that game, he also registered 6 potential assists; that is, passes made directly to a shooter who just missed the shot. The fact that Zion had 9 shot-creating passes in barely 18 minutes, largely out of double teams in the post, is actually another example of why his post game is better than Jah's.

That said, do you legitimately think Jahlil Okafor has a long-term future on this team? Cause I don't.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Part of a post game is the ability to pass out from the post. In the Spurs game, Zion got doubled from the first touch and consistently made good reads and passes out to shooters and cutters; Jah isn't capable of that. While it's true that Zion only registered 3 assists in that game, he also registered 6 potential assists; that is, passes made directly to a shooter who just missed the shot. The fact that Zion had 9 shot-creating passes in barely 18 minutes, largely out of double teams in the post, is actually another example of why his post game is better than Jah's.

That said, do you legitimately think Jahlil Okafor has a long-term future on this team? Cause I don't.

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I do, as a end of bench big for spot mins. Especially if we could make the Love trade discussed in another thread.

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Originally Posted by Silver Nail

I do, as a end of bench big for spot mins. Especially if we could make the Love trade discussed in another thread.

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See, I feel like making the Love trade would only cement Okafor's uselessness further. Okafor cannot play any position other than the 5, and with Love, Hayes, and Zion all taking minutes at that position, it's hard to see him ever getting a look in. Unless you're assuming something like a Love at the 4, Okafor at the 5 lineup, which is a recipe for defensive disaster.

imo okafor future is depending on if gentry is our coach next season.....if we get a coach who dont do the small ball thing and like post scores then okafor has a chance at a good price...

im just waiting to see if we make a trade and see what kind of player we bring in and total of years because that will give me some type of answer to if we are keeping gentry next year.......i mean we cant make a trade and bring in players that dont fit gentry game....that would be like giving gentry monty players when we first signed gentry as coach approach all over again....

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

See, I feel like making the Love trade would only cement Okafor's uselessness further. Okafor cannot play any position other than the 5, and with Love, Hayes, and Zion all taking minutes at that position, it's hard to see him ever getting a look in. Unless you're assuming something like a Love at the 4, Okafor at the 5 lineup, which is a recipe for defensive disaster.

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Agree defense would be weak but Love and Zion at 5 would be scoring machine. Same as Zion and Jax. We need two bigs on at all times. Have all the shooting necessary, need the boards. Oak would probable get less mins. then Melli, but he still has some value.

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Originally Posted by Silver Nail

Agree defense would be weak but Love and Zion at 5 would be scoring machine. Same as Zion and Jax. We need two bigs on at all times. Have all the shooting necessary, need the boards. Oak would probable get less mins. then Melli, but he still has some value.

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I agree that Love + Zion would be fantastic offensively, and I also think Love + Jax would be workable for the same reason, and given my love of the big/big PnR, Zion+Jax has a lot of potential too. I just don't really see how Okafor gets on the court with any of that.

How do we characterize JAX' Post Game? Offensive Game?

Moreover, how do we characterize JAX' overall game?

Is he really a 20 minute a night player like some claim (especially if the Pels are still fighting for the playoffs)?

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Originally Posted by As I See It

How do we characterize JAX' Post Game? Offensive Game?

Moreover, how do we characterize JAX' overall game?

Is he really a 20 minute a night player like some claim (especially if the Pels are still fighting for the playoffs)?

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He's literally been playing about 20mpg so far this season, as the Pels have been fighting for a playoff spot, and has been one of the better players on the roster. Right now he's a garbage man/lob-catcher/roll man on offense and a rim protector on D. You expect that to remain next year but to possibly expand as he spends the summer putting on some weight/muscle and working on his game.

Jax does not really have a developed post-game as of today.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

He's literally been playing about 20mpg so far this season, as the Pels have been fighting for a playoff spot, and has been one of the better players on the roster. Right now he's a garbage man/lob-catcher/roll man on offense and a rim protector on D. You expect that to remain next year but to possibly expand as he spends the summer putting on some weight/muscle and working on his game.

Jax does not really have a developed post-game as of today.

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So really, he is a 'Flash or Crash' player, even by your standards. Thanks!!!

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Originally Posted by As I See It

So really, he is a 'Flash or Crash' player, even by your standards. Thanks!!!

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:rolleyes:

Apparently ''roll-man and rim protector'' means ''flash or crash'' now. Glad to hear it from someone who truly understands the fluidity of meaning and how words can sometimes mean something completely other than what they usually do.

Your words...…

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Jax does not really have a developed post-game as of today.

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….not mine (BTW: I agree with you)

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Your words...…



….not mine (BTW: I agree with you)

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Not having a developed post game does not make you flash and crash. Not really sure why you're having so much trouble with this.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Not having a developed post game does not make you flash and crash. Not really sure why you're having so much trouble with this.

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It's not flash and crash; it's "Flash or Crash" (there's no middle ground). He'll either awe you with his athleticism, or confound you with his ineptitude. In other words, he lacks the consistency required, right now, to be a counted on.

You know, Jax may turn out to be a better 4 or 3 . Time will tell

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Originally Posted by Silver Nail

You know, Jax may turn out to be a better 4 or 3 . Time will tell

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I'm not a betting man, but I am absolutely confident that Jaxson Hayes, 6'11.5'' shot blocker, will not end up being a small forward.

The more JAX plays (right now) the better the chances of the Pelicans losing. Most of the 13 game losing streak 'featured' the 'JAX-in-the-Box". The team righted itself when a real center (Favors) was re-inserted into the line up. Before he came back, I said that JAX' minutes would be reduced when Zion returned. It's only a two game sample, but it seems that his minutes are trending in that direction.

I would love to be Hayes' agent; his upside is incredible. But, right now, he's a confused mess.

with the trade deadline closing in, I have seen this name pop up from a couple different sources, and the thought really interests me.... dealing with the Kings once again and this time for Nemanja Bjelica...possibly available for picks and maybe the inclusion of Darius Miller in some way... a sturdy looking 6'10" with a very reliable outside shot and the ability to pass the ball too.... 31 years old, but definitely worth a gander if we are serious about this year....

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Originally Posted by ramsters60

with the trade deadline closing in, I have seen this name pop up from a couple different sources, and the thought really interests me.... dealing with the Kings once again and this time for Nemanja Bjelica...possibly available for picks and maybe the inclusion of Darius Miller in some way... a sturdy looking 6'10" with a very reliable outside shot and the ability to pass the ball too.... 31 years old, but definitely worth a gander if we are serious about this year....

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Not interested, tbh. Like you said, would cost picks, and he's 31. I'm not thinking about this year at all, not in any serious way. I'm not giving up any future assets in the hope to win this year.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Not interested, tbh. Like you said, would cost picks, and he's 31. I'm not thinking about this year at all, not in any serious way. I'm not giving up any future assets in the hope to win this year.

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you might well be right, because you usually are, but I can still see this team making some kind of move for a veteran big... I guess time will tell...

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Not interested, tbh. Like you said, would cost picks, and he's 31. I'm not thinking about this year at all, not in any serious way. I'm not giving up any future assets in the hope to win this year.

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Would take him in a heartbeat. He is a perfect fit. A true stretch 4 who can play some D. He would be a Mirotic-type pickup. His contract next season is very nice as well (about $7 million). I would not give up any 1sts, but a 2nd or 2 with Miller or something like Jackson and Miller would not be out of the question. Kings have a ton of 2nd rounders though, so they may not be overly interested in 2nd rounders.

We better not move Favors. I want to resign Favors and keep Lonzo and BI long term. I think we need better off the ball defenders. Our defense is pretty weak.


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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Would take him in a heartbeat. He is a perfect fit. A true stretch 4 who can play some D. He would be a Mirotic-type pickup. His contract next season is very nice as well (about $7 million). I would not give up any 1sts, but a 2nd or 2 with Miller or something like Jackson and Miller would not be out of the question. Kings have a ton of 2nd rounders though, so they may not be overly interested in 2nd rounders.

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He's not really a great defender, is the issue. He's pretty serviceable in a limited role but he has huge issues in space, and his team D is kinda meh. Definitely not bad, I'm not saying that, but not the kind of guy who I think of as worth a FRP, and that's what I think it would cost to get him.

Like you said, if it's 2nds, then I'm more interested, but I'm working with the assumption that they want a first, which I think is semi-plausible.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

He's not really a great defender, is the issue. He's pretty serviceable in a limited role but he has huge issues in space, and his team D is kinda meh. Definitely not bad, I'm not saying that, but not the kind of guy who I think of as worth a FRP, and that's what I think it would cost to get him.

Like you said, if it's 2nds, then I'm more interested, but I'm working with the assumption that they want a first, which I think is semi-plausible.

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Yeah, I wouldn't give up a 1st. However, his defense is decent enough to keep him on the court some without being a liability (as some stretch 4s are).

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Originally Posted by ramsters60

with the trade deadline closing in, I have seen this name pop up from a couple different sources, and the thought really interests me.... dealing with the Kings once again and this time for Nemanja Bjelica...possibly available for picks and maybe the inclusion of Darius Miller in some way... a sturdy looking 6'10" with a very reliable outside shot and the ability to pass the ball too.... 31 years old, but definitely worth a gander if we are serious about this year....

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You pretty much have the same player in Nico who is playing very well lately.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Not interested, tbh. Like you said, would cost picks, and he's 31. I'm not thinking about this year at all, not in any serious way. I'm not giving up any future assets in the hope to win this year.

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I say we fly to Spain & have 2 Nico's. Let us also not forget that Didi will be in the rotatation next year!

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Originally Posted by Wecandothis

You pretty much have the same player in Nico who is playing very well lately.

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Yeah.

A month or ago I would have felt differently but he has been playing better now that he is stuck having to role play as EuroFavors.

For Gawd's sake, just play Melli. It's obvious that he has a nose for the ball, spreads the court, is a positive influence when he's played, and KNOWS THE GAME.

I do think we could use a little at the F/C spot. Especially someone other than Favors who isn't a rookie and at least is sorta reliable defensively.

We've got Miller's contract, but I don't see the guy out there who is in that salary range that a team would be willing to let go for 2nds. Baynes would be perfect if PHX weren't still competitive, Crowder is from another rival... Maybe being the dumping ground for Olynyk or Meyers Leonard if the Heat make a big move?

Henson probably sucks too much... Am I missing anybody?

Frankly I wouldn't touch the current rotation guys (Moore included), or the rooks unless the trade was too good to pass up.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

I do think we could use a little at the F/C spot. Especially someone other than Favors who isn't a rookie and at least is sorta reliable defensively.

We've got Miller's contract, but I don't see the guy out there who is in that salary range that a team would be willing to let go for 2nds. Baynes would be perfect if PHX weren't still competitive, Crowder is from another rival... Maybe being the dumping ground for Olynyk or Meyers Leonard if the Heat make a big move?

Henson probably sucks too much... Am I missing anybody?

Frankly I wouldn't touch the current rotation guys (Moore included), or the rooks unless the trade was too good to pass up.

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What about one of the Morris brothers?


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New Inside Pass from NBA Insider @ShamsCharania:

Despite a year of speculation that a trade request could develop, Jrue Holiday makes clear he’s happy and committed in New Orleans; Eastern Conference squad among teams pursuing Clint Capela and more.https://t.co/QHieh7CJ0q

— The Athletic NBA (@TheAthleticNBA) January 31, 2020

I don't think we are going to do anything...at this point too much team chemistry has been built and it shows. They enjoy playing with one another. This time last year, I was ready to end my relationship with this franchise. Now? Oh my has that worm turned.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

What about one of the Morris brothers?


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Markief is do not touch.

Marcus is still a little crazy and so is the Knicks asking price for him. He's their best player. He can also be a bit of a chucker at times, but I can't lie he'd be a great addition to our core 6 players. If we could get him for Moore, Miller and 2nds in a 3 way deal I'd probably do it. But I doubt we could.

I think a three team deal with Atlanta and Sacramento could be beneficial for all involved.

I would propose:

Atlanta: Favors, our 2020 2nd and Washington's 2020 2nd
Kings: Brooklyns lotto protected 1st (via ATL), Moore, Frank, Miller, Cleveland's top ten protected 1st.
Pelicans: Bogdanovic, Dedmon

Atlanta gets a hometown starting caliber center that they know can make an impact on a young team. The can resign for a reasonable price this summer. All they have to do is exchange a mid/late first for two decent seconds. They have been shopping for defensive anchors who can't shoot. Favors will be less expensive than Drummond, Adams, or Capela and can hit a mid-range jumper.

Kings make the deal because they get a cheap young shooter/prospect (Frank), a first this year and two valuable seconds (Cavs 2nds 21/22), Miller/Moore (relatively cheap shooters/vets) that can be expirings or resigned/kept. They trade away a wing who they won't pay this summer and a big who is making $13 mil and not playing because they have too many young bigs.

The Pelicans get a starting caliber shooting card who can flat out shoot the ball, operate in PNR, has a ton of experience NBA/Euro, and can replace Jrue on a much cheaper contract. Dedmon offers slightly worse defense than Fav but much better fit offensively. He hit 38% of his threes last year with Atlanta and is going to be less expensive than Favors. He is only under contract through next year with a team option for 21 so he can be used as an expiring next year or or the year after depending on how we feel about the development of Zion, Hayes, and any other bigs we may acquire via draft or trade.

I really value Bogdanovic's game next to Zo/BI/Zion. Jrue has been great, but is an inconsistent scorer/shooter, always has been. He's expensive now and will be even more expensive if through some miracle he opted out and resigned with us in 2021. I would take less than fair trade value to move him to a contender in the east (heat,nets,raptors,Boston) and if he doesn't remain there long term or win a championship, I would induct him into Pelicans HOF.

Your core would be:
Zo/Ingram/Zion. (Hayes/Bogdanovic can fit into this category or the next)
Players with potential to be core pieces or trade bait to add to core:
Hart, NAW, 2020 1st Rd pick
Vets: JJ, Dedmon,Melli,MLE free agent
This is a very solid team in addition to whatever we get in a Jrue trade, our stash of Lakers picks and owning all of our future picks.

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Originally Posted by UNPELIEVABLE

I think a three team deal with Atlanta and Sacramento could be beneficial for all involved.

I would propose:

Atlanta: Favors, our 2020 2nd and Washington's 2020 2nd
Kings: Brooklyns lotto protected 1st (via ATL), Moore, Frank, Miller, Cleveland's top ten protected 1st.
Pelicans: Bogdanovic, Dedmon

Atlanta gets a hometown starting caliber center that they know can make an impact on a young team. The can resign for a reasonable price this summer. All they have to do is exchange a mid/late first for two decent seconds. They have been shopping for defensive anchors who can't shoot. Favors will be less expensive than Drummond, Adams, or Capela and can hit a mid-range jumper.

Kings make the deal because they get a cheap young shooter/prospect (Frank), a first this year and two valuable seconds (Cavs 2nds 21/22), Miller/Moore (relatively cheap shooters/vets) that can be expirings or resigned/kept. They trade away a wing who they won't pay this summer and a big who is making $13 mil and not playing because they have too many young bigs.

The Pelicans get a starting caliber shooting card who can flat out shoot the ball, operate in PNR, has a ton of experience NBA/Euro, and can replace Jrue on a much cheaper contract. Dedmon offers slightly worse defense than Fav but much better fit offensively. He hit 38% of his threes last year with Atlanta and is going to be less expensive than Favors. He is only under contract through next year with a team option for 21 so he can be used as an expiring next year or or the year after depending on how we feel about the development of Zion, Hayes, and any other bigs we may acquire via draft or trade.

I really value Bogdanovic's game next to Zo/BI/Zion. Jrue has been great, but is an inconsistent scorer/shooter, always has been. He's expensive now and will be even more expensive if through some miracle he opted out and resigned with us in 2021. I would take less than fair trade value to move him to a contender in the east (heat,nets,raptors,Boston) and if he doesn't remain there long term or win a championship, I would induct him into Pelicans HOF.

Your core would be:
Zo/Ingram/Zion. (Hayes/Bogdanovic can fit into this category or the next)
Players with potential to be core pieces or trade bait to add to core:
Hart, NAW, 2020 1st Rd pick
Vets: JJ, Dedmon,Melli,MLE free agent
This is a very solid team in addition to whatever we get in a Jrue trade, our stash of Lakers picks and owning all of our future picks.

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The Pels would have to be committed to paying Bogdanovich a big contract for this deal to make sense. Not sure that makes a lot of sense.

I think we are shopping these players and everyone else will stay:

Moore, Frank Jackson, Okafor, Melli, and Darius Miller. These players would be great for add ons in 3-team deals for us to collect picks and expiring salary.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

I think we are shopping these players and everyone else will stay:

Moore, Frank Jackson, Okafor, Melli, and Darius Miller. These players would be great for add ons in 3-team deals for us to collect picks and expiring salary.

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I'm not sure we are shopping anyone other than maybe Miller's contract. However, of that group I really don't think we would be shopping Melli so soon after convincing him to come overseas.

From Windhorst-

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Rather than selling, the Pelicans may actually be interested in acquiring another veteran player at the deadline, according to Windhorst, who said on The Lowe Post that New Orleans believes its early-season struggles could be attributed in part to how young the team’s roster was.

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Knicks - Miller, Jackson, 2nd
Pels - Elfrid Payton

His high assist low turnover style of play while pushing pace would be a plus off the bench & would allow Jrue more time playing the 2/3.

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Originally Posted by MG3n2K9

Knicks - Miller, Jackson, 2nd
Pels - Elfrid Payton

His high assist low turnover style of play while pushing pace would be a plus off the bench & would allow Jrue more time playing the 2/3.

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Yesterday, I wrote:

"I wished we still had Elfrid Payton.

In fact. I would trade Holiday right now to the Knicks for Elfrid and their 2020 # 1 yesterday if I could."

That #1 would likely be a top five pick. It's sad we didn't offer Elfrid this past off season, he would have been a great bench jockey.

I'd like to see us add Davis Bertans and lock him up for several years. He'd be a great fit, but would cost us quite a few assets

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Yesterday, I wrote:

"I wished we still had Elfrid Payton.

In fact. I would trade Holiday right now to the Knicks for Elfrid and their 2020 # 1 yesterday if I could."

That #1 would likely be a top five pick. It's sad we didn't offer Elfrid this past off season, he would have been a great bench jockey.

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You're more than likely getting two bench players in this trade considering how poor this years draft is. Unless you get the #1 pick, this isn't even close to enough value for Jrue.