Bring back CP3

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

But all those guys were proven needle movers. Bosh was the worse of the 3 and he would routinely take a decent Raptors team to the playoffs.

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AD is the best 4 in the NBA and Cousins is the best 5 in the NBA. If you don't think those two guys are needle movers... LOL

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

AD is the best 4 in the NBA and Cousins is the best 5 in the NBA. If you don't think those two guys are needle movers... LOL

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What have they moved that's so funny?

What they have done individually may not be great but I do think together they are needle movers. We had a small sample size of what they can do. I think if we resign Jrue we are in conference finals and if we can miraculously get George we could potentially get to the finals. I'm putting fanatics back in fan! (Yes I'm aware it's backwards)

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

What have they moved that's so funny?

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You are implying that one star can carry an entire team in today's NBA, and therefore because the Kings and Pelicans weren't contenders with 1 star and a poorly designed supporting cast, that should reflect badly on AD and Boogie. Your entire premise is flawed beyond hope of repair.

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Originally Posted by tdcreator

What they have done individually may not be great but I do think together they are needle movers. We had a small sample size of what they can do. I think if we resign Jrue we are in conference finals and if we can miraculously get George we could potentially get to the finals. I'm putting fanatics back in fan! (Yes I'm aware it's backwards)

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People are weird in a sense that something either has to be a praise or an insult. If we want to talk about potential that's an entirely different story. However if we are talking about past accomplishments neither Davis nor Cousins can be considered "needle movers" at this point even together. Sure I rather have them then not but if you're Paul and you are willing to leave L.A. for a chance to win a title why would coming back here be on your radar based on actual core success?

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Originally Posted by tdcreator

What they have done individually may not be great but I do think together they are needle movers. We had a small sample size of what they can do. I think if we resign Jrue we are in conference finals and if we can miraculously get George we could potentially get to the finals. I'm putting fanatics back in fan! (Yes I'm aware it's backwards)

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Are you Serious? Jrue makes 0 difference in making this club advance anymore than the 30 wins a year we have shown in 155 games he has played in out of 4 years he has been a Pelican.
Did you not see him this season against the playoff guards in the league? He is a turnover machine and doesnt pocess the skill set to win over anyone off the dribble.
Go watch the March 15 game against the Heat. He was schooled for 33 points in a loss that the fanchise claims that the month of March was the reason Genrty keep his job due to improvement.
I stand firm on we need a Real Legit Point Guard to make a difference. Jrue is not the answer at the 1 or 2. If we want change we need to make changes otherwise we will have the same results with the same players.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

You are implying that one star can carry an entire team in today's NBA, and therefore because the Kings and Pelicans weren't contenders with 1 star and a poorly designed supporting cast, that should reflect badly on AD and Boogie. Your entire premise is flawed beyond hope of repair.

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Oh you mean like James Harden, Russell Westbrook, and Paul George? Look I get situations aren't always fair (especially for Boogie), but at some point it's excuses. Our team has been talented enough to be consistently over the course of Davis' career if Anthony was a true needle mover. He's still 24 years old 3 or 4 years away from his prime like the names I listed. Those are all things to feel very positive about, however lets stop talking like these twonhave walked the walk just yet.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Oh you mean like James Harden, Russell Westbrook, and Paul George? Look I get situations aren't always fair (especially for Boogie), but at some point it's excuses. Our team has been talented enough to be consistently over the course of Davis' career if Anthony was a true needle mover. He's still 24 years old 3 or 4 years away from his prime like the names I listed. Those are all things to feel very positive about, however lets stop talking like these twonhave walked the walk just yet.

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No, what you need to do is stop talking like AD and Cousins aren't two franchise players, best in the NBA at their positions, who get selected to represent USA in the Olympics as the best of the best. You sound like fool talking about they aren't needle movers.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

No, what you need to do is stop talking like AD and Cousins aren't two franchise players, best in the NBA at their positions, who get selected to represent USA in the Olympics as the best of the best. You sound like fool talking about they aren't needle movers.

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Again what needle have they moved? They are both great young players. Franchise player doesn't denote needle mover. Nothing you have said addresses my point.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Again what needle have they moved? They are both great young players. Franchise player doesn't denote needle mover. Nothing you have said addresses my point.

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I addressed your point very clearly. You can't evaluate a single player's value based on the performance of his team when the rest of the team clearly isn't set up well. That is your whole premise, and its ignorant. The idea of players being a "needle mover" (something that excludes AD and Cousins) is just a dumb term that you use but no respectable front office would evaluate a player in this way. Consider your point thoroughly addressed and dismissed.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Again what needle have they moved? They are both great young players. Franchise player doesn't denote needle mover. Nothing you have said addresses my point.

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I clearly understand your point. Fans has to understand players don't care about Potential, they wanna play with talented players who provide results.

The negativity around here has gotten to a ridiculous level, considering our two star big men. People are acting like we're still the same team that had Tyreke as it's second best player. Regardless of qhat we do rhis off-season, we will be a playoff team. If we make the right moves, we could be a top 4 seed in the next year or two. Cheer up, you negative Nancy's. :grphug:

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

I clearly understand your point. Fans has to understand players don't care about Potential, they wanna play with talented players who provide results.

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Cousins and AD aren't players with potential. They are the best front court tandem in the NBA. Yes they can both still improve and likely will, but as of today they are already the best front court in the NBA. So it's not about "potential".

The Kings front office was the biggest joke in the NBA the past few years. The Pelicans were a mess of mismatched parts, disgruntled players, bad contracts, coaching and front office instability. These are the reasons for the teams failure to contend. To ignore all these variables and simply place the blame on AD and Cousins not being "needle movers" is so dumb it hurts to even think it.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Again what needle have they moved? They are both great young players. Franchise player doesn't denote needle mover. Nothing you have said addresses my point.

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What needle did Michael Jordan move prior to 1990? Was in the league 6 years by then. Are you serious?

Pointing out liabilities is not negative sorry.
Making Magic Carpet dreams about a 60 win team in 2 years is not realistic.
This team is players away from getting back to 45 wins. Just signing Jrue changes nothing.
We are all fans so let's be real not believing what Demps says or Gentry says.
A franchise is what it's record says no more no less.

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Originally Posted by Buckwheat

Pointing out liabilities is not negative sorry.
Making Magic Carpet dreams about a 60 win team in 2 years is not realistic.
This team is players away from getting back to 45 wins. Just signing Jrue changes nothing.
We are all fans so let's be real not believing what Demps says or Gentry says.
A franchise is what it's record says no more no less.

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The title of this thread is "bring back CP3". Nowhere in this thread are people saying that signing Jrue is going to change everything. In fact, the whole point of this thread is that we should try to replace Jrue with CP3. If the Pelicans added CP3 to the current roster, New Orleans would be immediately become the best team in the west behind the Warriors.

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Originally Posted by RUFshreve

The negativity around here has gotten to a ridiculous level, considering our two star big men. People are acting like we're still the same team that had Tyreke as it's second best player. Regardless of qhat we do rhis off-season, we will be a playoff team. If we make the right moves, we could be a top 4 seed in the next year or two. Cheer up, you negative Nancy's. :grphug:

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THANK YOU!!!!!!! Exactly what Im saying

A lot of people are going to shut up once the season starts and we are winning.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

I addressed your point very clearly. You can't evaluate a single player's value based on the performance of his team when the rest of the team clearly isn't set up well. That is your whole premise, and its ignorant. The idea of players being a "needle mover" (something that excludes AD and Cousins) is just a dumb term that you use but no respectable front office would evaluate a player in this way. Consider your point thoroughly addressed and dismissed.

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Does OKC have multiple stars, Houston, or Indiana? Yet all three made the playoffs. Why? Because they have guys that at this stage are going to make the playoffs with minimal talent. You haven't discredited my point you are making excuses. We were in the running for a playoff spot after the trade. What happened? We had the two best big men at their respective position. You think we bring in Curry, Harden, Westbrook, George, Butler, Durant, James, Leonard after allstar we miss the playoffs? Look Davis and Cousins could very well kill it next year and we get a home playoffs series or 2. But until they do it in the minds of superstars they'll have obvious doubt. Which is the point I'm making.

If Cousins and Davis are this made pair why aren't the top FA mentioning us as their main destination? Because they don't know that if they come here they'll instantly compete for titles.

It's as simple as "Oh, we didn't win 30 games in row once we got Cousins." So this won't work out, I guess.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

What the Spurs did in 1999 doesn't have a single thing to do with 2017. You are talking about an era when Ginobli, Parker, Duncan were all in their primes. That time is gone now. The Spurs have the greatest NBA coach as well as 1 great player in Kawhi, but I notice that you failed to name another player besides him in your response. That right there says it all.

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It's a ongoing streak of excellence. It's easy to say winning in 1999 doesn't matter. It's harder to say winning every year doesn't matter. Again, it's an ongoing streak. That mean's the Spurs ARE STILL winning, and winning a lot. The Spurs won 61 games LAST year, and made it to the WCF. The year before they finished with 67 wins, and according to FiveThirtyEight, posted the 7th highest ELO rating of all-time: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...cid=538twitter.

This notion that they are no longer good is beyond ridiculous, particularly when comparing them with the Pelicans. Yes, it's harder to qualify why they're STILL good. But that does nothing to change the fact that they still go out, perform, and win a ********ton of games. That fact was true 20 years ago. That fact remains true NOW.

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The Pelicans were without Boogie for most of the year (and without Jrue as well). A Pelicans team that has no Cousins and no CP3 is not the same as the Pelicans team with CP3 and Cousins.

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I mean, yeah. I don't know why you felt the need to make that point, but okay. I'm sure you'll elaborate on that in a response, should you feel the need to make one. If I had to guess, you're saying the Pels with CP3 would be better than a Pels team without CP3, which isn't debatable. The "debatable" aspect is whether the Spurs + CP3 > Pelicans + CP3. Logic dictates that a 60 win team + CP3= a really ********ing good team.

Regardless, none of my posts have disputed that Boogie + AD, and whatever garbage we put around them, can't be a good team in the future. But we can't skip steps. We haven't proven that our talent can translate into wins YET. As Silverfoxx has said, the free agents will come ONCE we win. Until then, we need to tamper our FA expectations, particularly given our lack of cap flexibility.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Cousins and AD aren't players with potential. They are the best front court tandem in the NBA. Yes they can both still improve and likely will, but as of today they are already the best front court in the NBA. So it's not about "potential".

The Kings front office was the biggest joke in the NBA the past few years. The Pelicans were a mess of mismatched parts, disgruntled players, bad contracts, coaching and front office instability. These are the reasons for the teams failure to contend. To ignore all these variables and simply place the blame on AD and Cousins not being "needle movers" is so dumb it hurts to even think it.

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There potential is based on the fact that they are not proven winners yet. It simply works like this: we have a winning season, make the playoffs, win some games, then Free agents will come. You guys are only at our team "on paper" when this tandem hasn't shown enough winning yet. I expect us to do so, so I'm not worried about this year free agency.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Does OKC have multiple stars, Houston, or Indiana? Yet all three made the playoffs. Why? Because they have guys that at this stage are going to make the playoffs with minimal talent. You haven't discredited my point you are making excuses. We were in the running for a playoff spot after the trade. What happened? We had the two best big men at their respective position. You think we bring in Curry, Harden, Westbrook, George, Butler, Durant, James, Leonard after allstar we miss the playoffs? Look Davis and Cousins could very well kill it next year and we get a home playoffs series or 2. But until they do it in the minds of superstars they'll have obvious doubt. Which is the point I'm making.

If Cousins and Davis are this made pair why aren't the top FA mentioning us as their main destination? Because they don't know that if they come here they'll instantly compete for titles.

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Superstars respect other superstars. NBA players definitely recognize AD and Cousins as both elite level dream team caliber players. The Kings and Pelicans did not have success for a variety of reasons as already described. It was not because of AD or Cousins.

Indiana plays in the west and they still barely made it above .500. Are you kidding me? Houston doesn't have multiple elite players, but what they do have is a coherently designed supporting cast around Harden with a plan that makes sense. Adding CP3 would disrupt their plan because Harden and Paul are both the primary ball handlers. The Pelicans are a team with the best front court in the NBA and a wide open spot for a PG like Paul.

If CP3 aligned with Boogie and AD, the Pelicans are instantly competing for titles. The Pelicans had no time to prepare a vision with Boogie and AD after the all star break. Its ridiculous to act like that small sample size of games is an accurate reflection of what to expect for next year. Even you know this because you are leaving yourself wiggle room so that when AD and Cousins take over the league you won't sound completely foolish.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Does OKC have multiple stars, Houston, or Indiana? Yet all three made the playoffs. Why? Because they have guys that at this stage are going to make the playoffs with minimal talent. You haven't discredited my point you are making excuses. We were in the running for a playoff spot after the trade. What happened? We had the two best big men at their respective position. You think we bring in Curry, Harden, Westbrook, George, Butler, Durant, James, Leonard after allstar we miss the playoffs? Look Davis and Cousins could very well kill it next year and we get a home playoffs series or 2. But until they do it in the minds of superstars they'll have obvious doubt. Which is the point I'm making.

If Cousins and Davis are this made pair why aren't the top FA mentioning us as their main destination? Because they don't know that if they come here they'll instantly compete for titles.

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All those teams made the playoffs because they had established 6th, 7th, and 8th men on their teams. Not only that, but they had been there since training camp. After the Cousins trade, Dell had to go deep mining for diamonds and luckily they found Crawford. Even one of the guys meant to be here after that trade got hurt. In case you forgot, Etwaun Moore had to be inserted into the starting lineup after the trade. The team was gutted including that injury to Casspi.

So yes, all of those players could have come here after the break and this team would have still missed the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

It's as simple as "Oh, we didn't win 30 games in row once we got Cousins." So this won't work out, I guess.

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Who's saying it won't work?

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Superstars respect other superstars. NBA players definitely recognize AD and Cousins as both elite level dream team caliber players. The Kings and Pelicans did not have success for a variety of reasons as already described. It was not because of AD or Cousins.

Indiana plays in the west and they still barely made it above .500. Are you kidding me? Houston doesn't have multiple elite players, but what they do have is a coherently designed supporting cast around Harden with a plan that makes sense. Adding CP3 would disrupt their plan because Harden and Paul are both the primary ball handlers. The Pelicans are a team with the best front court in the NBA and a wide open spot for a PG like Paul.

If CP3 aligned with Boogie and AD, the Pelicans are instantly competing for titles. The Pelicans had no time to prepare a vision with Boogie and AD after the all star break. Its ridiculous to act like that small sample size of games is an accurate reflection of what to expect for next year. Even you know this because you are leaving yourself wiggle room so that when AD and Cousins take over the league you won't sound completely foolish.

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Ok we'll see who we sign this year.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Ok we'll see who we sign this year.

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If the Pelicans are unable to attract quality FA, it won't be because of AD or Cousins. Those 2 players are the only reasons anybody would want to come here. And you are implying people won't want to come here because of those 2 guys, its just crazy.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Who's saying it won't work?

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I think people are just taking your realistic views towards the franchise as negativity. Just because we have two superstars does not mean that anything is guaranteed or that our franchise is any different as a whole in regards to disfunction. Even though i see the current team (including Jrue) as a playoff team, i dont think we have a "playoff culture" so to speak in the locker room. There hasnt been a defined leader on this team since CP left and i dont see Davis becoming that guy this year

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

If the Pelicans are unable to attract quality FA, it won't be because of AD or Cousins. Those 2 players are the only reasons anybody would want to come here. And you are implying people won't want to come here because of those 2 guys, its just crazy.

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I dont think anyone on this board would imply that Cousins or AD would be reasons for top level free agents not to come here. I think its more along the lines of the fact that our team isnt known as a winning franchise. Also could be because you have a player like Jrue who would potentially sign else where due to his issues with ownership, per Mac

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Originally Posted by bojangles837

I think people are just taking your realistic views towards the franchise as negativity. Just because we have two superstars does not mean that anything is guaranteed or that our franchise is any different as a whole in regards to disfunction. Even though i see the current team (including Jrue) as a playoff team, i dont think we have a "playoff culture" so to speak in the locker room. There hasnt been a defined leader on this team since CP left and i dont see Davis becoming that guy this year

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Cut it out with the logic.

Being realistic is bad. If you're not overly optimistic, you're doing it wrong!

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

If the Pelicans are unable to attract quality FA, it won't be because of AD or Cousins. Those 2 players are the only reasons anybody would want to come here. And you are implying people won't want to come here because of those 2 guys, its just crazy.

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It's NOT "players" won't come here because of AD and Boogie's presence.

It's "players" won't come here DESPITE AD and Boogie's presence, until they both prove they can win games together.

For the 2342o-0o420th time, that's not a statement against their potential. It's an assessment of who they have been as players separately and together, however brief.

(And before you attack the use of the word, "players," I'm only using the same jargon as the OP).

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Originally Posted by PelsFan2313

It's NOT "players" won't come here because of AD and Boogie's presence.

It's "players" won't come here DESPITE AD and Boogie's presence, until they both prove they can win games together.

For the 2342o-0o420th time, that's not a statement against their potential. It's an assessment of who they have been as players separately and together, however brief.

(And before you attack the use of the word, "players," I'm only using the same jargon as the OP).

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Thats a bingo!

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Originally Posted by PelsFan2313

It's NOT "players" won't come here because of AD and Boogie's presence.

It's "players" won't come here DESPITE AD and Boogie's presence, until they both prove they can win games together.

For the 2342o-0o420th time, that's not a statement against their potential. It's an assessment of who they have been as players separately and together, however brief.

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for the millionth time, you cannot make an assessment of an individual player based on how many wins his team has. Winning teams are successful because of contributions from players other than the best player on the team. Its the supporting cast and coaching that makes the team successful, not just the performance of the 1 guy who is the best player on the team. AD and Cousins were the best players on their respective teams. But the win totals of those teams CANNOT be used to say that AD and Cousins aren't "needle movers". This where you keep stubbornly making the same mistake.

Players don't need to see anything more from AD or Boogie. At all. Those two have proven themselves on the court and everyone knows they are elite (except for you, who inexplicably claims they aren't needle movers). What free agents need to see from the Pelicans is a stronger supporting cast, a logical plan for the team, and better coaching. It has absolutely zero to do with AD and Cousins not being "needle movers".

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

for the millionth time, you cannot make an assessment of an individual player based on how many wins his team has. Winning teams are successful because of contributions from players other than the best player on the team. Its the supporting cast and coaching that makes the team successful, not just the performance of the 1 guy who is the best player on the team. AD and Cousins were the best players on their respective teams. But the win totals of those teams CANNOT be used to say that AD and Cousins aren't "needle movers". This where you keep stubbornly making the same mistake.

Players don't need to see anything more from AD or Boogie. At all. Those two have proven themselves on the court and everyone knows they are elite (except for you, who inexplicably claims they aren't needle movers). What free agents need to see from the Pelicans is a stronger supporting cast, a logical plan for the team, and better coaching. It has absolutely zero to do with AD and Cousins not being "needle movers".

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I can't make this any more clear. I am beyond belief that I haven't driven this point home yet. I HAVE NOT made ANY assessment of what our team can be. All I have said is there is no definitive proof that we are are going to be good because AD and Boogie haven't done anything to this point to prove differently, separately or together.

It's so ironic that you keep saying that stars are the byproduct of their supporting cast and coaching, yet you keep assuming that we're going to be good WITHOUT even knowing who the supporting cast is going to be. So take your own advice and stop making assumptions of excellence when there is NOTHING to back up that projection. It's nothing but conjecture until AD and Boogie step on the floor with their soon-to-be-determined supporting case and WIN.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

for the millionth time, you cannot make an assessment of an individual player based on how many wins his team has. Winning teams are successful because of contributions from players other than the best player on the team. Its the supporting cast and coaching that makes the team successful, not just the performance of the 1 guy who is the best player on the team. AD and Cousins were the best players on their respective teams. But the win totals of those teams CANNOT be used to say that AD and Cousins aren't "needle movers". This where you keep stubbornly making the same mistake.

Players don't need to see anything more from AD or Boogie. At all. Those two have proven themselves on the court and everyone knows they are elite (except for you, who inexplicably claims they aren't needle movers). What free agents need to see from the Pelicans is a stronger supporting cast, a logical plan for the team, and better coaching. It has absolutely zero to do with AD and Cousins not being "needle movers".

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A needle mover is someone whos going to lead there team to more wins and into the playoffs. ie. lebron making the finals with a team full of absolute scrubs. So yeah, you probably shouldn't base normal players success on wins but you definitely can make that assessment if someone who is suppose to be a "needle mover"

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Originally Posted by PelsFan2313

I can't make this any more clear. I am beyond belief that I haven't driven this point home yet. I HAVE NOT made ANY assessment of what our team can be. All I have said is there is no definitive proof that we are are going to be good because AD and Boogie haven't done anything to this point to prove differently, separately or together.

It's so ironic that you keep saying that stars are the byproduct of their supporting cast and coaching, yet you keep assuming that we're going to be good WITHOUT even knowing who the supporting cast is going to be. So take your own advice and stop making assumptions of excellence when there is NOTHING to back up that projection. It's nothing but conjecture until AD and Boogie step on the floor with their soon-to-be-determined supporting case and WIN.

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I'm not making assumptions about anything. I'm going by what Boogie and AD have shown in the NBA, which is that they are elite. These guys are perennial all stars and recognized by their peers as being the best. Their performance as individuals has proven this beyond doubt. You are the one saying that AD and Cousins aren't needle movers.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

I'm not making assumptions about anything. I'm going by what Boogie and AD have shown in the NBA, which is that they are elite. These guys are perennial all stars and recognized by their peers as being the best. Their performance as individuals has proven this beyond doubt. You are the one saying that AD and Cousins aren't needle movers.

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To quote Da Throne.. What have they done?

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Again what needle have they moved? They are both great young players. Franchise player doesn't denote needle mover. Nothing you have said addresses my point.

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What needle did Bosh and Wade move before teaming up with Lebron in Miami? Yet, you said they were all needle movers before getting together.

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Originally Posted by bojangles837

A needle mover is someone whos going to lead there team to more wins and into the playoffs. ie. lebron making the finals with a team full of absolute scrubs. So yeah, you probably shouldn't base normal players success on wins but you definitely can make that assessment if someone who is suppose to be a "needle mover"

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Lebron James is possibly the best basketball player to ever live and even he couldn't do it by himself, which is why he left Cleveland in the first place. What was your point again?

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Originally Posted by bojangles837

To quote Da Throne.. What have they done?

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Played better than everyone else in the NBA at their respective positions. I thought that was really obvious.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

What needle did Bosh and Wade move before teaming up with Lebron in Miami? Yet, you said they were all needle movers before getting together.

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Wade was a finals MVP before lebron went to Miami

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Lebron James is possibly the best basketball player to ever live and even he couldn't do it by himself, which is why he left Cleveland in the first place. What was your point again?

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The point is still the fact that Davis and cousins aren't needle movers yet

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

I'm not making assumptions about anything. I'm going by what Boogie and AD have shown in the NBA, which is that they are elite. These guys are perennial all stars and recognized by their peers as being the best. Their performance as individuals has proven this beyond doubt. You are the one saying that AD and Cousins aren't needle movers.

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A- I didn't say AD and Cousins weren't "needle movers," DaThrone did. Don't put words in my mouth.
B- They have shown they are elite when it comes to putting up individual numbers. They have not shown that they are elite when it comes to winning basketball games.

So yes, you are making presumptions. Individual excellence does not necessarily translate to team excellence, particularly when the rest of the supporting cast is poor. And again you can't have it both ways. Either the supporting cast matters, so we can't assume we'll win next year (without knowing what the supporting case will be) OR the supporting cast doesn't matter, which means AD and Cousins aren't the "needle movers," you claim them to be.

Also, on another point, the LeBron and MJ "couldn't do it by themselves" is a silly argument because you're still talking about varying levels of success. MJ took the early Bulls teams deep into the postseason. LeBron took a hot pile of garbage to the Finals in 2007. Meanwhile, Cousins hasn't even sniffed the playoffs, and AD hasn't won a single playoff game.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Lebron James is possibly the best basketball player to ever live and even he couldn't do it by himself, which is why he left Cleveland in the first place. What was your point again?

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You lost me at LeBron being possibly being the best ever.

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Originally Posted by bojangles837

Wade was a finals MVP before lebron went to Miami

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You are correct, I forgot they beat Dallas. I stand corrected. I recalled him not being able to get out of the 1st round before Lebron came.

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Originally Posted by PelsFan2313

A- I didn't say AD and Cousins weren't playmakers, DaThrone did. Don't put words in my mouth.
B- They have shown they are elite when it comes to putting up individual numbers. They have not shown that they are elite when it comes to winning basketball games.

So yes, you are making presumptions. Individual excellence does not necessarily translate to team excellence, particularly when the rest of the supporting cast is poor. And again you can't have it both ways. Either the supporting cast matters, so we can't we'll next year (without knowing what the supporting case will be) OR the supporting cast doesn't matter, which means AD and Cousins aren't the"needle movers," you claim them to be.

Also, on another point, the LeBron and MJ "couldn't do it by themselves" is a silly argument because you're still talking about varying levels of success. MJ still took the early Bulls teams deep into the postseason. Meanwhile, Cousins hasn't even sniffed the playoffs, and AD hasn't won a single playoff game.

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Lol you don't want him to put words in your mouth then proceed to do the same to me. I never said they weren't playmakers.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Lol you don't want him to put words in your mouth then proceed to do the same to me. I never said they weren't playmakers.

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I meant "needle movers," I mistyped.

Overall, I'm with you though, not against you. You're just making a different argument to make the same point, which is AD and Boogie haven't done anything to prove they can lead a successful team.

But just to address your "needle mover point," I think their ability to "move the needle" is limited by the fact that they aren't perimeter players. Today's NBA is a perimeter-driven league, and our backcourt as it stands is Crawford, Moore, Cook, and Jackson. Ouch.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

What needle did Bosh and Wade move before teaming up with Lebron in Miami? Yet, you said they were all needle movers before getting together.

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What? Wade was Finals MVP and Bosh was in the playoffs every year.

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Originally Posted by PelsFan2313

I meant "needle movers," I mistyped.

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Ok cool it happens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

What? Wade was Finals MVP and Bosh was in the playoffs every year.

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See above. And Bosh only made the playoffs twice with Toronto if I recall (and did not get out of the 1st round).