Lets Rank Jrue Holiday

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Originally Posted by Silver Nail

I would offer Jrue whatever he can get on the market plus extra year because of having his bird rights. If that is 30m try to do a sign and trade, Regardless, I would take a shot at both Patty Mills and Shawn Livingston in addition to the current look at JJ

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Can't do a S&T w/ 5th year.

Free agent targets aren't the only thing.
I think we sign Jrue to the max and then go after Ricky Rubio as our PG. He could be had after the draft when we can trade our 2018 first.

Having both Holiday and Rubio in the back court would be brutal.

But at least can keep till after we lock up Boggie in '18 and if we want to shop then, that would be doable right?

Patty Mills intrigues me. What kind of contract do you guys see him getting? I imagine it'll be a 3-4 yr contract at about 13-15m annually.

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Originally Posted by PelsFan2313

Patty Mills intrigues me. What kind of contract do you guys see him getting? I imagine it'll be a 3-4 yr contract at about 13-15m annually.

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Pretty sure all we can offer him is the MLE

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

Free agent targets aren't the only thing.
I think we sign Jrue to the max and then go after Ricky Rubio as our PG. He could be had after the draft when we can trade our 2018 first.

Having both Holiday and Rubio in the back court would be brutal.

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I doubt Rubio wants to be a backup

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

Free agent targets aren't the only thing.
I think we sign Jrue to the max and then go after Ricky Rubio as our PG. He could be had after the draft when we can trade our 2018 first.

Having both Holiday and Rubio in the back court would be brutal.

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That is interesting. I've wondered if Holiday would be better suited as combo SG guard alongside another true PG.

I honestly think Rubio can be had in the offseason.
He is owed 14M in 2017/18
If we spend our cap space on Rubio we will have a nice backcourt.

Rubio/Frazier
Holiday/Moore
Hill/Q-Pon
Davis/Diallo
Cousins/Ajinca/Asik

Then use the bird rights to re-sign Casspi and Cunningham as we have their bird rights and can go over the cap to do so.

Rubio/Frazier/2nd rounder
Holiday/Moore
Hill/Casspi/Q-Pon
Davis/Cunningham/Diallo
Cousins/Ajinca/Asik

Then try again in 2017/18 to get rid of both Asik and Ajinca. Stretch Asik if you can't. Dont see it as crucial this year as we aren't a max team this offseason but will certainly the year Cousins in a FA.

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Originally Posted by tyler

I doubt Rubio wants to be a backup

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He wouldn't be.

Rubio PG and Holiday (combo guard)
Them two sharing the ball duties would be a thing of beauty.

Jrue has been the best PG in the NBA over the last month with his stats. But one bad game and now it's back to he's not the guy. LoL

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

Jrue has been the best PG in the NBA over the last month with his stats. But one bad game and now it's back to he's not the guy. LoL

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He not bad. He just isn't a pass first PG that Gentry needs for his system to be successful.
I still want to keep him, but play him off the ball where he excels.

It's simple.
You either get rid of Gentry and hire a coach which compliments the players (AD and DC) or you get players to suit Gentry.

I think it would be wise to hang onto Gentry until both Holiday and Cousins are locked here long term.

Know it's early, but I sorted through the upcoming available free agents for good, realistic fits. Apparently, since we'll be over the cap, we only have the MLE (~8.5mil) and minimum contracts, and then going over the cap to sign our own free agents (Holiday and Casspi.. not sure if Cunningham has bird rights, but probably can let him go anyway).

Full MLE possibilities:

Justin Holiday
T. Snell (R)
C.J. Miles (PO)
S. Muhammad (R)

P. Mills
D. Collison

Min. contract or part of MLE possibilities:

B. Rush
G. Green
R. Foye
A. Brooks
A. Anderson
Calderon
J. Meeks
J. McRae
R. Felton
A. Morrow

Unprobable possibilites due to out of price-range, likelihood to re-sign with their teams, or not a good fit due to lack of shooting or attitude/personal concerns:

KCP (R)
Hardaway Jr. (R)
Iguodala
J. Simmons (R)
J. Ingles (R)
T. Sefolosha
Shaun Livingston
Stuckey (PO)
N. Young (PO)
L. Babbitt
D. Waiters (PO)
P.J. Tucker

Sign two new wing/guard players, then go over the cap to re-sign Holiday and Casspi. And of course, try and trade away or stretch the contracts of Asik and Ajinca, and Hill, Moore and Frazier if possible for upgrades. Possibly sign a minimum contract big man for depth.

Cousins
Davis
Casspi
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Holiday

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

I honestly think Rubio can be had in the offseason.
He is owed 14M in 2017/18
If we spend our cap space on Rubio we will have a nice backcourt.

Rubio/Frazier
Holiday/Moore
Hill/Q-Pon
Davis/Diallo
Cousins/Ajinca/Asik

Then use the bird rights to re-sign Casspi and Cunningham as we have their bird rights and can go over the cap to do so.

Rubio/Frazier/2nd rounder
Holiday/Moore
Hill/Casspi/Q-Pon
Davis/Cunningham/Diallo
Cousins/Ajinca/Asik

Then try again in 2017/18 to get rid of both Asik and Ajinca. Stretch Asik if you can't. Dont see it as crucial this year as we aren't a max team this offseason but will certainly the year Cousins in a FA.

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That sounds like a good plan. Although, what would the trade be to get Rubio from the T'Wolves? We don't have expiring contracts to trade for him. And I think Casspi as the more reliable 3-point shooter should start if the shooting-hindered Rubio would be starting.

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Originally Posted by Rheem654

That sounds like a good plan. Although, what would the trade be to get Rubio from the T'Wolves? We don't have expiring contracts to trade for him. And I think Casspi as the more reliable 3-point shooter should start if the shooting-hindered Rubio would be starting.

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He could of been had for a first rounder this last trade deadline.
I say offer our 2018 pick and we get him in the offseason.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

He could of been had for a first rounder this last trade deadline.
I say offer our 2018 pick and we get him in the offseason.

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Yea but since we'll be at or over the cap, we would have to send out near equal salary in return.

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Originally Posted by jprdbulldog20

Pretty sure all we can offer him is the MLE

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With some easy adjustments we can offer much more than the MLE.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

With some easy adjustments we can offer much more than the MLE.

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Oh yea? I thought even with stretching Asik's contract we would still be over the cap due to Holiday's cap hold.

Buyout Ajinca and Qpon this year and we'll have that 8 million to spend. I don't know how that works against the cap. I'd think Ajinca would take 2 mil and next year I'm sure he'll get a contract about where he's at now but even if he make 3 mil he doesn't lose money. Qpon give him 1.5 and if he plays next year he'd at least get league min so neither would lose much money if any. Frees up 2 roster spots for some young players.

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Originally Posted by Rheem654

Oh yea? I thought even with stretching Asik's contract we would still be over the cap due to Holiday's cap hold.

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Depends on what we do with Ajinca and Omri, and If Cunningham opts out or not. Stretch Asik is part of it too.

Mason has the numbers on it all but I think we could potentially have ~30m cleared if we get everyone off our books who can easily be removed (including Jrue) or something like 13-14m keeping Jrue's cap hold.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

Jrue has been the best PG in the NBA over the last month with his stats. But one bad game and now it's back to he's not the guy. LoL

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Wrong. John Wall.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Depends on what we do with Ajinca and Omri, and If Cunningham opts out or not. Stretch Asik is part of it too.

Mason has the numbers on it all but I think we could potentially have ~30m cleared if we get everyone off our books who can easily be removed (including Jrue) or something like 13-14m keeping Jrue's cap hold.

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Ok yea I'm seeing that article here: http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/20...17-off-season/

Looks like stretching Asik would only save 6.2mil this off-season. Which could get them under the cap, but I think then they would only have a lesser exception to spend since they're under the cap.

And I'm really not seeing a team trading for Ajinca's remaining contract this offseason, unless a 1st rounder is included, which they shouldn't do.

We'll see I guess. Should be interesting, but it's a far off time from now.

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Originally Posted by tdcreator

Buyout Ajinca and Qpon this year and we'll have that 8 million to spend. I don't know how that works against the cap. I'd think Ajinca would take 2 mil and next year I'm sure he'll get a contract about where he's at now but even if he make 3 mil he doesn't lose money. Qpon give him 1.5 and if he plays next year he'd at least get league min so neither would lose much money if any. Frees up 2 roster spots for some young players.

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Yea, when you buyout players, their full contracts still stay on the cap.

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Originally Posted by Rheem654

Ok yea I'm seeing that article here: http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/20...17-off-season/

Looks like stretching Asik would only save 6.2mil this off-season. Which could get them under the cap, but I think then they would only have a lesser exception to spend since they're under the cap.

And I'm really not seeing a team trading for Ajinca's remaining contract this offseason, unless a 1st rounder is included, which they shouldn't do.

We'll see I guess. Should be interesting, but it's a far off time from now.

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Ajinca could be moved possibly straight up this summer or worst case with a 2nd attached. No way would it cost a 1st.

Then you have Cunningham who is likely to opt out, and it starts depending on which cap holds you want to keep. If Jrue agrees to resign then we have future picks to start using to clear contracts and bring back maybe a bigger player this summer too.

It's definitely going to be interesting.

If the Rubio trade were possible, that would be pretty exciting.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

Jrue has been the best PG in the NBA over the last month with his stats. But one bad game and now it's back to he's not the guy. LoL

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It's not that he's not a good PG. He's just not a max player in my eyes. I know the Pelicans consider him one of the big 3 and will most likely offer him the max or close to but I still disagree with it

I would not mind having Jrue play SG if we could find another PG. Having 2 capable distributors to get the ball to AD and Cousins would be great. Could also stagger playing them together while playing combos with a guard and big at most times. I really wish we could get Bledsoe who IMO would be perfect next to Jrue. Our defense would be incredible. Would give up 2 future 1st to snag him. I still believe we will have our shot at Westbrook and a very good one at that. I think we have to resign Jrue unless another star agrees this off season. If anything move him as an asset later.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

I would not mind having Jrue play SG if we could find another PG. Having 2 capable distributors to get the ball to AD and Cousins would be great. Could also stagger playing them together while playing combos with a guard and big at most times. I really wish we could get Bledsoe who IMO would be perfect next to Jrue. Our defense would be incredible. Would give up 2 future 1st to snag him. I still believe we will have our shot at Westbrook and a very good one at that. I think we have to resign Jrue unless another star agrees this off season. If anything move him as an asset later.

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That's the best part about Jrue is his versatility. So find the best players you can

Resigning Jrue Holiday has to be our highest priority this offseason. We pretty much have to sign him IMO, unless someone else becomes available. Unfortunately we don't have anything to make a move for someone decent. Point guard will be extremely important for this squad led by Boogie & AD. I think we can be a contender with Jrue being our 3rd best player. I'd love to have Ricky Rubio or some other guard to start with Jrue, but don't see how to make that happen. I like Moore, but would rather see him coming off the bench. We are pretty much stuck with Solomon Hill as our small forward. I wish we could of gotten someone a tad better, but hopefully he will get better with more playing time.

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Originally Posted by DaPelFromHell

Resigning Jrue Holiday has to be our highest priority this offseason. We pretty much have to sign him IMO, unless someone else becomes available. Unfortunately we don't have anything to make a move for someone decent. Point guard will be extremely important for this squad led by Boogie & AD. I think we can be a contender with Jrue being our 3rd best player. I'd love to have Ricky Rubio or some other guard to start with Jrue, but don't see how to make that happen. I like Moore, but would rather see him coming off the bench. We are pretty much stuck with Solomon Hill as our small forward. I wish we could of gotten someone a tad better, but hopefully he will get better with more playing time.

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Well said!

Wouldn't mind, sign and trade Jrue this summer before draft or draft day, for a starting 2/3 player plus a 2017 1st round pick and pick Best perimiter player available, then sign Shaun Livingston to be our starter, with more of a shooter/playmaker PG off the bench. If Jrue does not shine and we don't make playoffs, I'd be very weary of giving Jrue anything close to a max deal. I feel most PG'S worth a damn could thrive with AD and Boogie and complementary shooters, slashes. I've always felt more pieces and especially off the bench, is better than 3 max contracts, especially when Jrue is NOT a max player.

Also, George Hill is another option and wouldn't get max money.

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Originally Posted by irvchilichill1

Wouldn't mind, sign and trade Jrue this summer before draft or draft day, for a starting 2/3 player plus a 2017 1st round pick and pick Best perimiter player available, then sign Shaun Livingston to be our starter, with more of a shooter/playmaker PG off the bench. If Jrue does not shine and we don't make playoffs, I'd be very weary of giving Jrue anything close to a max deal. I feel most PG'S worth a damn could thrive with AD and Boogie and complementary shooters, slashes. I've always felt more pieces and especially off the bench, is better than 3 max contracts, especially when Jrue is NOT a max player.

Also, George Hill is another option and wouldn't get max money.

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Any suggestions of which teams would do such a sign and trade for a starting 2/3 player and draft pick? Also, George Hill will probably get close to the max, probably in the same range as Holiday, and he seems like a top priority for the Jazz to re-sign him.

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Originally Posted by irvchilichill1

Wouldn't mind, sign and trade Jrue this summer before draft or draft day, for a starting 2/3 player plus a 2017 1st round pick and pick Best perimiter player available, then sign Shaun Livingston to be our starter, with more of a shooter/playmaker PG off the bench. If Jrue does not shine and we don't make playoffs, I'd be very weary of giving Jrue anything close to a max deal. I feel most PG'S worth a damn could thrive with AD and Boogie and complementary shooters, slashes. I've always felt more pieces and especially off the bench, is better than 3 max contracts, especially when Jrue is NOT a max player.

Also, George Hill is another option and wouldn't get max money.

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Slight problem of draft being before FA. Might also wanna check the last time S&T returned a starter AND a first-rounder.

Edit: As for George Hill problem is Pels will have to clear room under the cap (well, Asik can be stretched, so maybe not that big of a problem), but then Pelicans lose full MLE to sign another guy to a contract of up to $8.4m and 4 years, while only getting $4.5m and 2 years. Plus Utah has similar problem being even more locked into Hiil due to lack of cap space, than Pels are with Jrue, so they will have to be willing to up his salary to retain him.

Jrue has always been overrated around here and still is overrated around here.

He's not even a top 15 PG. His vision is atrocious. His play making ability also atrocious. No real feel for the game or running a team.

Here's a question for CBA guys. If we can offer a fifth year, does it have to be at the max? What I mean is if another team offers the max for 4 years, can we offer slightly less than a max deal plus a fifth year? Essentially we would offer more overall with the fifth year included but not a full max while still out bidding anyone else?

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Originally Posted by SilkySlim

Jrue has always been overrated around here and still is overrated around here.

He's not even a top 15 PG. His vision is atrocious. His play making ability also atrocious. No real feel for the game or running a team.

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Nevermind the other end of the floor and the fact he is top 5 defensively as a PG.

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Originally Posted by P_B_&_G

Nevermind the other end of the floor and the fact he is top 5 defensively as a PG.

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Lol no he's not.

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Originally Posted by SilkySlim

Lol no he's not.

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Okay, name the best defensive PGs ahead of Jrue.

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Originally Posted by P_B_&_G

Here's a question for CBA guys. If we can offer a fifth year, does it have to be at the max? What I mean is if another team offers the max for 4 years, can we offer slightly less than a max deal plus a fifth year? Essentially we would offer more overall with the fifth year included but not a full max while still out bidding anyone else?

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No, it doesn't, and for a guy with Jrue's injury history, more money even if over more years should have value.

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Originally Posted by Gilles

No, it doesn't, and for a guy with Jrue's injury history, more money even if over more years should have value.

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This is my thinking. Anyone care to throw out what a deal like this would look like?

What's the max another team can offer?

He's top 5 defensively. We clearly have to pay him. But he's not elite offensively at all and he's inconsistent on both ends.

The best thing that could happen for this team is to luck up in the lottery and use the pick on Fultz or Ball, resign Jrue, and eventually move him off the ball. Or trade him.

People saying Jrue Holiday is a max guy are making me dislike Jrue Holiday. It's not his fault he can't playmake as a point guard, or is it? He's god awful creator. Awful. He's like the 29th worst starting PG in the league when it comes to creating for his teammates.

Not to pile into a thread as an outsider, but is his decisionmaking always like this? Because, um...you're not going to win many running around like a chicken with your head cut off. Even fewer when you're virtually the only guard on the roster who was in the NBA last month.

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Originally Posted by SilkySlim

Jrue has always been overrated around here and still is overrated around here.

He's not even a top 15 PG. His vision is atrocious. His play making ability also atrocious. No real feel for the game or running a team.

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This.

If Frazier is playing now like he was last season, would anyone want him as Jrue's replacement? I still think everyone is overreacting about Jrue's recent play, but I was very intrigued by Frazier last year. I think he's better with an increased workload.

so you people called me a troll and a fool for stating that Dell was just trying to save his job when he paid way too much for Mr. Attitude! We're 0-2 and the team looks much worse. Guess what no playoffs and no more employment for Dell and Alvin. Total mess right now. Oh and besides wasting ALL of our first round picks other than AD Dell also left Seth Curry leave just when the kid was starting to show some promise. Is Seth great NO, is he his brother NO BUT what he is is at least as good as our guards. Boy could we have used Buddy or Evans the last 2 games.

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Originally Posted by specialman

so you people called me a troll and a fool for stating that Dell was just trying to save his job when he paid way too much for Mr. Attitude! We're 0-2 and the team looks much worse. Guess what no playoffs and no more employment for Dell and Alvin. Total mess right now. Oh and besides wasting ALL of our first round picks other than AD Dell also left Seth Curry leave just when the kid was starting to show some promise. Is Seth great NO, is he his brother NO BUT what he is is at least as good as our guards. Boy could we have used Buddy or Evans the last 2 games.

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Yes, Dell is a putz. Yes, Alvin can't coach. But there's no way you can deny that Dell didn't fleece Sacramento hard. Dell deserves to kick his road apples, but he also deserves mad credit for pulling off that trade. That will be his claim to fame.

We have no choice, but to re-sign Jrue for the max.

This is just such a hard decision. If I was GM I wouldn't be sure what to do. Jrue is such a nice guy and has all the tools to be a great PG and like many here are saying it might be very difficult to find a better one. However sometimes it looks like he has no vision and doesn't know what to do with the ball. I would be happy with him if he got 20mil per year but 30 seems like a huge risk but Dell will probably have no choice

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Originally Posted by PolishFan

This is just such a hard decision. If I was GM I wouldn't be sure what to do. Jrue is such a nice guy and has all the tools to be a great PG and like many here are saying it might be very difficult to find a better one. However sometimes it looks like he has no vision and doesn't know what to do with the ball. I would be happy with him if he got 20mil per year but 30 seems like a huge risk but Dell will probably have no choice

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I agree. I can't remember which one, but there was a podcast recently where they were discussing whether $20m a year for Jrue would be too much. I think the national media will roast Dell if Jrue gets a max, but I agree he may have to. I just hope there actually is a real robust market that forces us to that max number, and it's not an offer Dell feels compelled to make on the 1st day of free agency. At least if we know there is a market that forces that number, we can assume Jrue will have value at that number if for some reason we're looking to trade him to go in a different direction.

This is probably the most difficult decision Dell will have to make in his Pelicans tenure.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

He's top 5 defensively. We clearly have to pay him. But he's not elite offensively at all and he's inconsistent on both ends.

The best thing that could happen for this team is to luck up in the lottery and use the pick on Fultz or Ball, resign Jrue, and eventually move him off the ball. Or trade him.

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Westbrook, Wall, Payton, Bradley, Beverly and Rubio.
Stats don't measure point guards. A point should be able to run the offensive system and make his teammates better.
Holiday can't operate Gentry's point guard friendly system. Look at the difference between EG in Houston and here. It's the same system. Holiday isn't a good decision maker to be the primary go through guy.
Dell is boxed and will sign Holiday to a near max contract.