Jimmy Smith article on Monty Williams future

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Originally Posted by Noggy

In the playoffs.

Do you think Poppovich would've gotten swept?

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Again, we aren't getting Pop, there aren't 30 Pop's out there, so why compare Monty to him? Carlisle managed a single win against houston, Thibs has a battle on his hands with the Bucks.

All of You go and watch Monty's press conference on pelicans.com (2 parts)

This does not sound like a coach whose job is on line.
Monty is here next season.

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Originally Posted by billfromfinance

Again, we aren't getting Pop, there aren't 30 Pop's out there, so why compare Monty to him? Carlisle managed a single win against houston, Thibs has a battle on his hands with the Bucks.

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Aye, just telling you where the difference is.

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Originally Posted by Noggy

In the playoffs.

Do you think Poppovich would've gotten swept?

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To be fair, the Hornets team Monty took to the playoffs his first year was supposed to have the doors blown off of them by the Lakers. We managed to win two games that series. If not for just an epic meltdown by all parties (not going to put all the blame on Monty), we take at least one against the Warriors. Sometimes, stuff just happens.

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Originally Posted by Noggy

Aye, just telling you where the difference is.

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I think a child could tell us the difference between a top 3 coach ever an an average coach.

If Thibs flames out again and gets fired, do the fans here still want him to coach this team? Don't forget, he also wants FO responsibilities. For as good as Thibs is on Def he's equally bad on offense.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

I think a child could tell us the difference between a top 3 coach ever an an average coach.

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The guy asked what the difference was so I told him, thanks for the smartass comment though.

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Originally Posted by UptownFuz504

If Thibs flames out again and gets fired, do the fans here still want him to coach this team? Don't forget, he also wants FO responsibilities. For as good as Thibs is on Def he's equally bad on offense.

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If a coach like Thibodeau can be as successful record-wise as he is in Chicago and still be wanted out, that tells me there's something wrong there. I for one would not want him over Monty, if for no other reason, I could easily seeing the team quit on him.

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Originally Posted by Noggy

The guy asked what the difference was so I told him, thanks for the smartass comment though.

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No you cherry picked 1 sentence out of a whole paragraph to give an obvious answer.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

No you cherry picked 1 sentence out of a whole paragraph to give an obvious answer.

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Cherry picked the question out, yes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If we went to the NBA finals some of you would still want Monty fired. I think it is just plain hate some of you have for Monty.

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Originally Posted by 4Real

If we went to the NBA finals some of you would still want Monty fired. I think it is just plain hate some of you have for Monty.

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^This.

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Originally Posted by pawel

All of You go and watch Monty's press conference on pelicans.com (2 parts)

This does not sound like a coach whose job is on line.
Monty is here next season.

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Part 1 - http://www.nba.com/pelicans/monty-wi...rt-1-4-28-2015

Part 2 - http://www.nba.com/pelicans/video/te...015mp4-3585311

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Originally Posted by DarkHornet

If a coach like Thibodeau can be as successful record-wise as he is in Chicago and still be wanted out, that tells me there's something wrong there. I for one would not want him over Monty, if for no other reason, I could easily seeing the team quit on him.

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This is like people that try and say stay away from Jim Harbaugh because he got canned.

The Bulls ownership are a bunch of cheap asses on a power trip. The first straw was firing Ron Adams, Thibs top assisstant, as a power play, because of an unsubstantiated criticism outside of work where he may have said something about ownership. Or at least that was the excuse they leaked. Adams is now a top assisstant with the Warriors and Kerr.

The results of Thibs speak for themselves. An eastern conference finals and despite a superstar missing the last three seasons has made the playoffs each year. Always carrying one of the better records in the league and top seeds.

Whoever gets Thibs is going to get the rare chance an organization almost never gets which is to sign a guaranteed top 5 coach with little to no risk who has a history of developing talent and maximizing that talent. A basketball pioneer.

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Originally Posted by 4Real

If we went to the NBA finals some of you would still want Monty fired. I think it is just plain hate some of you have for Monty.

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Um, no. This is a ridiculous assertion. The people that don't support Monty don't think he can even GET us to the Finals. That's sort of the whole point by wanting a change. Come on.

Monty William's mentorship of AD and his subsequent rise to the top is exactly what I would want from my young coach when we scored anthony davis


now fix the roster

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

This is like people that try and say stay away from Jim Harbaugh because he got canned.

The Bulls ownership are a bunch of cheap asses on a power trip. The first straw was firing Ron Adams, Thibs top assisstant, as a power play, because of an unsubstantiated criticism outside of work where he may have said something about ownership. Or at least that was the excuse they leaked. Adams is now a top assisstant with the Warriors and Kerr.

The results of Thibs speak for themselves. An eastern conference finals and despite a superstar missing the last three seasons has made the playoffs each year. Always carrying one of the better records in the league and top seeds.

Whoever gets Thibs is going to get the rare chance an organization almost never gets which is to sign a guaranteed top 5 coach with little to no risk who has a history of developing talent and maximizing that talent. A basketball pioneer.

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You might be right. I just also know he has the reputation of running players into the ground. If there's truth to that, I'm not sure how our MASH unit roster makes it through a season.

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Originally Posted by DarkHornet

You might be right. I just also know he has the reputation of running players into the ground. If there's truth to that, I'm not sure how our MASH unit roster makes it through a season.

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It seems to be a depends on who you ask type thing about that rumor.

He clearly piles the minutes on his players in games. That is clear. It is a bit overstated and other coaches do it too. Heck we played Davis, a guy that has missed significant time every year in the league, the 5th most MPG in the league.

I have also read Thibs does try and balance this out by skipping practices throughout the year and having less intense practices at times.

I also think a lot of this concern is going to work itself out as the league has pretty much confirmed they are going to stretch the season so that a lot of these ridiculous schedule traps become mostly a thing of the past. Giving players more rest and less back 2 backs and eliminating 3 games in 4 days type stuff.

If Thibs is so great than how many NBA finals has he been at with Chicago? None. He has proven NOTHING so far. End of story. We are better off with Monty.

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Originally Posted by 4Real

If Thibs is so great than how many NBA finals has he been at with Chicago? None. He has proven NOTHING so far. End of story. We are better off with Monty.

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If he doesn't win this year with CLE's bad situation, Thibs will never win. He definitely won't win in the west. The same tunnel vision people have about Monty's weaknesses, they have tunnel vision about Thibs strengths totally ignoring the fact that he flames out in the spotlight.

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Originally Posted by 4Real

If Thibs is so great than how many NBA finals has he been at with Chicago? None. He has proven NOTHING so far. End of story. We are better off with Monty.

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Making or not making the finals doesn't make you a good or bad coach.

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Originally Posted by Jabberwalker

Making or not making the finals doesn't make you a good or bad coach.

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Maybe, maybe not. But let me ask you this - How many times has he taken his team bowling after a tough loss? Can ya answer that?

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Originally Posted by Jabberwalker

Making or not making the finals doesn't make you a good or bad coach.

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Monty has basically taken this team as far as Thibs has CHI save for the one conference finals. Thibs flames out in the 1st or 2nd round consistently. Doesn't make him great in my book. In the East nonetheless

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Originally Posted by UptownFuz504

Monty has basically taken this team as far as Thibs has CHI save for the one conference finals. Thibs flames out in the 1st or 2nd round consistently. Doesn't make him great in my book. In the East nonetheless

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Bingo!

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Maybe, maybe not. But let me ask you this - How many times has he taken his team bowling after a tough loss? Can ya answer that?

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Or how many times he has baked them his famous apple pie after a tough loss?

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Originally Posted by UptownFuz504

Monty has basically taken this team as far as Thibs has CHI save for the one conference finals. Thibs flames out in the 1st or 2nd round consistently. Doesn't make him great in my book. In the East nonetheless

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When Thibs had his superstar, one that isn't as good as Davis mind you, he made it to the eastern conference finals. His first year mind you.

The only credit Monty has is losing in the first round. That's it. That's his legacy. If you want to **** on Thibs and then prop up Monty you might try a different angle then post season record.

The only fan base delusional enough to think Monty Williams has earned the right to be called an equal coaching talent to a guy that literally is considered one of the greatest defensive minds of the modern era, has made the playoffs every year and has the best win percentage of any active coach of more then 300 games except Popovich, would be a select group of special fans around this place.

Literally the only argument I hear from you all is attempts to drag Thibs down(poor attempts at that) nothing even remotely close to hashing out a detailed breakdown that could possibly support your position. It's laughable...but yeah, him and Monty are equals.


This board sometimes, my god.

Get a grip you certain sect of the Pelicans fanabase, you are making a mockery of the rest of us.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

When Thibs had his superstar, one that isn't as good as Davis mind you, he made it to the eastern conference finals. His first year mind you.

The only credit Monty has is losing in the first round. That's it. That's his legacy. If you want to **** on Thibs and then prop up Monty you might try a different angle then post season record.

The only fan base delusional enough to think Monty Williams has earned the right to be called an equal coaching talent to a guy that literally is considered one of the greatest defensive minds of the modern era, has made the playoffs every year and has the best win percentage of any active coach of more then 300 games except Popovich, would be a select group of special fans around this place.

Literally the only argument I hear from you all is attempts to drag Thibs down(poor attempts at that) nothing even remotely close to hashing out a detailed breakdown that could possibly support your position. It's laughable...but yeah, him and Monty are equals.


This board sometimes, my god.

Get a grip you certain sect of the Pelicans fanabase, you are making a mockery of the rest of us.

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As far as I know Rose has played in first round vs Bucks.

The E A S T E R N Conference. Apples and Oranges.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

When Thibs had his superstar, one that isn't as good as Davis mind you, he made it to the eastern conference finals. His first year mind you.

The only credit Monty has is losing in the first round. That's it. That's his legacy. If you want to **** on Thibs and then prop up Monty you might try a different angle then post season record.

The only fan base delusional enough to think Monty Williams has earned the right to be called an equal coaching talent to a guy that literally is considered one of the greatest defensive minds of the modern era, has made the playoffs every year and has the best win percentage of any active coach of more then 300 games except Popovich, would be a select group of special fans around this place.

Literally the only argument I hear from you all is attempts to drag Thibs down(poor attempts at that) nothing even remotely close to hashing out a detailed breakdown that could possibly support your position. It's laughable...but yeah, him and Monty are equals.


This board sometimes, my god.

Get a grip you certain sect of the Pelicans fanabase, you are making a mockery of the rest of us.

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If Monty is such a bad coach how come he was an assistant on team USA? Coach K thinks different then you.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

When Thibs had his superstar, one that isn't as good as Davis mind you, he made it to the eastern conference finals. His first year mind you.

The only credit Monty has is losing in the first round. That's it. That's his legacy. If you want to **** on Thibs and then prop up Monty you might try a different angle then post season record.

The only fan base delusional enough to think Monty Williams has earned the right to be called an equal coaching talent to a guy that literally is considered one of the greatest defensive minds of the modern era, has made the playoffs every year and has the best win percentage of any active coach of more then 300 games except Popovich, would be a select group of special fans around this place.

Literally the only argument I hear from you all is attempts to drag Thibs down(poor attempts at that) nothing even remotely close to hashing out a detailed breakdown that could possibly support your position. It's laughable...but yeah, him and Monty are equals.


This board sometimes, my god.

Get a grip you certain sect of the Pelicans fanabase, you are making a mockery of the rest of us.

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So did Avery John and Byron Scott. Does that make them better coaches than Monty in your world?

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

When Thibs had his superstar, one that isn't as good as Davis mind you, he made it to the eastern conference finals. His first year mind you.

The only credit Monty has is losing in the first round. That's it. That's his legacy. If you want to **** on Thibs and then prop up Monty you might try a different angle then post season record.

The only fan base delusional enough to think Monty Williams has earned the right to be called an equal coaching talent to a guy that literally is considered one of the greatest defensive minds of the modern era, has made the playoffs every year and has the best win percentage of any active coach of more then 300 games except Popovich, would be a select group of special fans around this place.

Literally the only argument I hear from you all is attempts to drag Thibs down(poor attempts at that) nothing even remotely close to hashing out a detailed breakdown that could possibly support your position. It's laughable...but yeah, him and Monty are equals.


This board sometimes, my god.

Get a grip you certain sect of the Pelicans fanabase, you are making a mockery of the rest of us.

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I never stated that they were equals but you're placing Thibs in the upper echelon when he has won nothing. Same as Monty last I checked. In the Eastern conference none the less. All you provide is that his team has been hurt. What makes you think that Thibs will all of a sudden get a team to the promised land in the West when he couldn't/can't do it in the East? If the race ended at game 82, this argument is moot but until your guy takes his uber talented teams out of the 2nd round, you can save the higher than thou dribble for when Thibs wins something. Until then, I'm good on him

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Originally Posted by UptownFuz504

I never stated that they were equals but you're placing Thibs in the upper echelon when he has won nothing. Same as Monty last I checked. In the Eastern conference none the less. All you provide is that his team has been hurt. What makes you think that Thibs will all of a sudden get a team to the promised land in the West when he couldn't/can't do it in the East? If the race ended at game 82, this argument is moot but until your guy takes his uber talented teams out of the 2nd round, you can save the higher than thou dribble for when Thibs wins something. Until then, I'm good on him

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You are the one that tried to place Thibs and Monty on near equal footing. The onus is on you to make that case, not me to push back against your unqualified assertions. Your argument has basically amounted to assert an unqualified opinion, attempt to put anyone disagreeing with your unqualified assertion on the defense by attacking the perceived holes in their explanation while giving none of their own.

By pretty much every important metric Thibs has been a more successful coach then Monty and experts agree with that. The consensus is set and you are the one arguing against it. The onus is on you to make your case. So far your only attempt has been to knock Thibs w/l record in the playoffs but if we are applying that same logic to Monty, you end up defeating your own argument because Monty has an abysmal playoff record as of now.

He's been more successful in every metric sans the most important one. Championships. He's had better teams and the easier division and still hasn't gotten it done. I was not equating the two coaches because that would be crazy but to say that Thibs can take this team to the promised land just isn't founded by anything. That's just an assertion by the anti-Monty/pro-Thibs group. It is universally accepted that the East is much easier to navigate than the West. It is also fact that Thibs has not been able to get his teams over the hump. So again I ask, at the end of the day, why does he deserve all of the accolades that people are heaping on him?

Thibs
First year 2010-2011 Derrick Rose MVP - Eastern Conference Finals - L to Heat
Second Year 2011-2012 Derrick Rose tears ACL in first round, first game against the Sixers - L
Third Year 2012-2013 dragged that team to the second round with again no Derrick Rose - L to Heat
Fourth Year 2013-2014 starting five Hinrich - (pre-2015) Butler - Dunleavy - Boozer - Noah - L first round
This year 2014-2015 Back to having a decent team with Rose back, this years Butler, and Gasol and are leading the Bucks 3-2 and will probably close out that series and eventually lose to LeBron and the Cavs.

See anything? Yea the East is weak, but they have lost to the Heat 2 of his 4 post seasons and have had his superstar PG for 1 postseason run. As much as most of you give Monty a pass on his record due to injuries, imagine if AD went down at any point. How awful would we be? Yea Rose isnt AD, but he is the focal point of that offense. Without him the engine does not run, and it shows.

He probably wont make it to the finals this year, because again he has to play against the best player of this decade's team, again. (Even though I think they have the best shot at beating the Cavs in the East)

There is more to it than "He sucks because he hasnt made it to a finals...... won a championship....etc" Hes only had his star player for 1 postseason, and now hopefully 2.

AND he has won something, as the coach that was the sole reason for the Celtics defense in their championship run.

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Originally Posted by UptownFuz504

He's been more successful in every metric sans the most important one. Championships. He's had better teams and the easier division and still hasn't gotten it done. I was not equating the two coaches because that would be crazy but to say that Thibs can take this team to the promised land just isn't founded by anything. That's just an assertion by the anti-Monty/pro-Thibs group. It is universally accepted that the East is much easier to navigate than the West. It is also fact that Thibs has not been able to get his teams over the hump. So again I ask, at the end of the day, why does he deserve all of the accolades that people are heaping on him?

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You're just rambling now and throwing in some stupid straw men too boot. The argument isn't Thibs guarantees a championship but that Thibs is a superior coach. To which every credible expert agrees. To which anyone with half a brain would conclude.

If championships are your metric, the root of which are results orientated argument. Monty fails. Again. So try moving the goalpost somewhere else to make this ridiculous case you are making. Trying to poke holes in Thibs(poor attempts I might add) doesnt mean that makes Monty better or closer in talent.

If the only way we are going to analyze Thibs is by poking holes in him and not giving any context to those criticisms then you have to be even handed and hold Monty to that same evaluation process. To which you once again will hurt your own argument because if Thibs doesnt get the luxury of context then that leaves Monty as a sub .450 coach that hasn't made it past the first round despite having two squads with high level talent.

We can play this stupid game all day or you can start actually making a good point or better yet, concede how ridiculous you are making yourself look trying to equivocate Monty and Thibs as being similar coaching talent so far in their careers.

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Originally Posted by UptownFuz504

I never stated that they were equals but you're placing Thibs in the upper echelon when he has won nothing. Same as Monty last I checked. In the Eastern conference none the less. All you provide is that his team has been hurt. What makes you think that Thibs will all of a sudden get a team to the promised land in the West when he couldn't/can't do it in the East? If the race ended at game 82, this argument is moot but until your guy takes his uber talented teams out of the 2nd round, you can save the higher than thou dribble for when Thibs wins something. Until then, I'm good on him

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Thibodeau has his flaws - overexerting his players being chief among them - but he's more accomplished than Williams. Thibs "flaming out in r1 or r2" is still far better than "flaming out in r1 a couple times and in the lottery all other times." It's no comparison.

Remember when Popovich was flaming out for a few years? I wonder what he forgot to do as a coach for a couple years and then remembered years later.

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Originally Posted by Jabberwalker

Remember when Popovich was flaming out for a few years? I wonder what he forgot to do as a coach for a couple years and then remembered years later.

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No, not really. He hasn't gone below 50 wins his entire career. Never missed the playoffs. There was the transition from the Spurs being built as Duncan's team to Parkers. Is that what you are talking about?

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

No, not really. He hasn't gone below 50 wins his entire career. Never missed the playoffs. There was the transition from the Spurs being built as Duncan's team to Parkers. Is that what you are talking about?

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If the bulls "flaming out" before reaching the finals is because of the coach, then look at all the coaches who "flame out".
Pop lost in the first round twice and the second round once between 09 and 11 with a similar core that won before and after. Similar players, same coach. So if making it to the finals is on the coach, then the all-time great "flamed out" three years in a row.

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Originally Posted by Jabberwalker

If the bulls "flaming out" before reaching the finals is because of the coach, then look at all the coaches who "flame out".
Pop lost in the first round twice and the second round once between 09 and 11 with a similar core that won before and after. Similar players, same coach. So if making it to the finals is on the coach, then the all-time great "flamed out" three years in a row.

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Now I'm following you. haha. Gotcha

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Originally Posted by Jabberwalker

If the bulls "flaming out" before reaching the finals is because of the coach, then look at all the coaches who "flame out".
Pop lost in the first round twice and the second round once between 09 and 11 with a similar core that won before and after. Similar players, same coach. So if making it to the finals is on the coach, then the all-time great "flamed out" three years in a row.

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If the Spurs flame out to the Clippers bench(Rivers)again we should leave Monty and his rotations alone.

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Originally Posted by UptownFuz504

Monty has basically taken this team as far as Thibs has CHI save for the one conference finals. Thibs flames out in the 1st or 2nd round consistently. Doesn't make him great in my book. In the East nonetheless

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Well that one conference finals would be farther than this franchise has ever been, so thats a hell of a thing to be dismissive of.

To Quote DarkHornet

"2012–13: 27-55 (AD's first season)
2013–14: 34-48 (+7)
2014–15: 45-37 (+11)

People talk like this team is moving backwards. It is not. Even with the injuries. "