Offseason 2015

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Originally Posted by Pantazis76

I would say get rid of tyreke and gain continuity and try to upgrade C and SF.
People underestimate this offseason because we made the playoffs we can do it again..
Next year is gonna be harder, with a healthy OKC and i say our chances of making it next season is quite low unless we have a big offseason

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This team pretty much beat a healthy OKC twice. They can play with the best teams in the league. Don't be so scared of what we already have. It's the mental part that needs upgrades.

I like Ajinca to come back. He made a ton of strides this season and can even get better. Big if, but if he can avoid foul trouble, he's sure-fire starter.

Asik is probably worth around 8 million. I think he'll be back.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

He along with AD carried us into the playoffs and without him no way we make it.

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Yeah, that's not what happened.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

and we wanna get rid of him.

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Credit to him for his toughness, because we can't win with him as a starter

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

I like Ajinca to come back. He made a ton of strides this season and can even get better. Big if, but if he can avoid foul trouble, he's sure-fire starter.

Asik is probably worth around 8 million. I think he'll be back.

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I think Ajinca should come back exactly on the contract he has now. Unfortunately, i'd be willing to bet he gets overpaid.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

This year per 36 Tyreke averaged 18-7-6 while shooting 45% front he field and 31% from 3 while posting a career best defensive rating. He along with AD carried us into the playoffs and without him no way we make it. And the dude is a freaking warrior and battled thru injuries and we wanna get rid of him.

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His total shooting% is only 51% which is not good. His defense did improve, but he's still not an effcient offensive player at this point and for a guy with his kind of usage, his presence can hurt the offense. I think he would be more efficient coming off the bench, but Jrue and Gordon need to stay healthy for that to happen.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

We don't even make the playoffs this year without Tyreke.

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Or Q-Pon, or Cunningham, or Cole, or Asik, or Ajinca.

Getting to the playoffs was a team accomplishment and we couldn't have gotten there without everybody contributing

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

I think Ajinca should come back exactly on the contract he has now. Unfortunately, i'd be willing to bet he gets overpaid.

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His production as a backup was really good. Really efficient. PER of 19.9, WS/48 of 0.159 which is really good. His total win shares was 3.4 which nets about $5.44 million depending on which formula is used. Still think he's better as a backup since he gets into foul trouble at times.

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Originally Posted by Sovereign

Or Q-Pon, or Cunningham, or Cole, or Asik, or Ajinca.

Getting to the playoffs was a team accomplishment and we couldn't have gotten there without everybody contributing

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Exactly. So what's the argument? I think we can upgrade at the backup center. If our starting center is only going to play 25 minutes; i think that is where you upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

We don't even make the playoffs this year without Tyreke. He is the only player it seems that stayed healthy most of this season and even played when not. I am biased for Tyreke because i am University of Memphis alum; but really he was second best player the majority of this year.

His ability to get to the rim is something we severely lacked when we had CP3.

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Debatable whether he was 2nd best. He was the most durable, but Asik and Gordon seemed important too. Gordon was better offensively than Tyreke while Asik brought more defense. I do agree Tyreke's value increased when Jrue go hurt, but long-term this team is better suited if Tyreke is a backup.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

His production as a backup was really good. Really efficient. PER of 19.9, WS/48 of 0.159 which is really good. His total win shares was 3.4 which nets about $5.44 million depending on which formula is used. Still think he's better as a backup since he gets into foul trouble at times.

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That's why he will get paid and leave us. We can't afford him. We can use other pieces on out team to net us a center who can get points.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

Exactly. So what's the argument? I think we can upgrade at the backup center. If our starting center is only going to play 25 minutes; i think that is where you upgrade.

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I wish Asik could be better offensively of efficient compared to guys like D. Jordan and Tyson Chandler, but his hands kill him on that end of the floor.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

Debatable whether he was 2nd best. He was the most durable, but Asik and Gordon seemed important too. Gordon was better offensively than Tyreke while Asik brought more defense. I do agree Tyreke's value increased when Jrue go hurt, but long-term this team is better suited if Tyreke is a backup.

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Well. I'm not going to argue. If you watched every game, instead of looking at numbers.. You might change your tune.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

That's why he will get paid and leave us. We can't afford him. We can use other pieces on out team to net us a center who can get points.

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We have too much money tied into our guards. Gordon contract is the real albatross which hinders the team from doing major upgrades. Tyreke is slightly overpaid. He's more of 7-8 million guy. Jrue was worth his salary if he could have stayed healthy. He was playing the most efficient ball of his career. We need him more than anyone outside of AD.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

This team pretty much beat a healthy OKC twice. They can play with the best teams in the league. Don't be so scared of what we already have. It's the mental part that needs upgrades.

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versing them, and beating them record wise is two different things.. A thunder with durant can win the championship so you can't say we can compete when we havent proven it yet

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

Well. I'm not going to argue. If you watched every game, instead of looking at numbers.. You might change your tune.

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I did watch every game, but he was hit or miss as well every game. Some games he would have good shooting nights and other games he would struggle. At times, he forces the action too much and impedes ball movement. He improved defensively this season, but offensively he has the ball way too much in his hands especially in key situations. Part of the problem is poor coaching as well as AD not demanding the ball enough as well as Jrue being injured.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

We don't even make the playoffs this year without Tyreke. He is the only player it seems that stayed healthy most of this season and even played when not. I am biased for Tyreke because i am University of Memphis alum; but really he was second best player the majority of this year.

His ability to get to the rim is something we severely lacked when we had CP3.

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I dont want us to get rid of Tyreke unless its for an even better option. Im fine with keeping him.

I just think we are better off having him coming off the bench with guys like Cole and Anderson.
Coles a PG thats used to playing off ball and Anderson can be a great option at the 3 point line when the defense collapses on Tyreke.

Our first unit with Jrue back will benefit more having better ball movement at an uptempo pace,
especially with 3 shooters on the perimeter in Gordon, Jrue and Qpon.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

We have too much money tied into our guards. Gordon contract is the real albatross which hinders the team from doing major upgrades. Tyreke is slightly overpaid. He's more of 7-8 million guy. Jrue was worth his salary if he could have stayed healthy. He was playing the most efficient ball of his career. We need him more than anyone outside of AD.

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Being that Tyreke was one of the only ones to stay healthy, i'd argue that he worth the salary. Anything else is dead money.

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Originally Posted by Pantazis76

versing them, and beating them record wise is two different things.. A thunder with durant can win the championship so you can't say we can compete when we havent proven it yet

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This Thunders team can't win it all even with a healthy Durant.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

Being that Tyreke was one of the only ones to stay healthy, i'd argue that he worth the salary. Anything else is dead money.

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I agree about his durability. Being on the court counts for something.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

I did watch every game, but he was hit or miss as well every game. Some games he would have good shooting nights and other games he would struggle. At times, he forces the action too much and impedes ball movement. He improved defensively this season, but offensively he has the ball way too much in his hands especially in key situations. Part of the problem is poor coaching as well as AD not demanding the ball enough as well as Jrue being injured.

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I agree that he played hero ball way too much. I think his slashing ability is usually only helpful in the middle of the game when the team doesn't have a game plan.

Not sure how to fix that though, because his ability to get to the rim is a huge part of our offense.

Koufos>Asik

I am fine moving forward with the sf combo of QPon and DC. If we can get DC back on a good price, we are fine at the sf spot. Not every team is going to have Lebron, Melo, Durant, or Leonard. For what we need from our 3 spot (good defense, 4th option on offense), those two have been plenty fine. If you want to make an upgrade then go for it, but its going to cost a lot more, and the improvement won't outweigh the price.

If Asik wants more than $9 mil you can trim the fat there. What he will command, and what he deserves are two different things, he can rebound, but he is a liability on the other end of the court. If you can save money by signing a Koufas, do you do it? I think the savings, and the lack of head scratchers on the offensive end would be worth it. What you lose on the boards (you gain in points and fewer to's).

I know we will be better wether we make moves or not, but everyone else will be better as well. The Thunder will be healthy, The Suns will be healthy, the Jazz will be better. Luckly the Spurs and Mavs have to get old, but for all the talk of us certainly making the playoffs next season, its no certainty given that the NBA doesn't operate in a vacuum where we are the only team improving.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

I agree that he played hero ball way too much. I think his slashing ability is usually only helpful in the middle of the game when the team doesn't have a game plan.

Not sure how to fix that though, because his ability to get to the rim is a huge part of our offense.

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The big way for it to improve is somehow get more fouls called and make more FTs. If he can do that, his efficiency will definitely improve.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

This Thunders team can't win it all even with a healthy Durant.

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alright.. but my point is that no matter what we do, we ain't overcoming them for the playoff hunt, gosh

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

The big way for it to improve is somehow get more fouls called and make more FTs. If he can do that, his efficiency will definitely improve.

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That's hard to do when you are bigger than most of the people you are up against. One of the reason's many people thought he could play the three. I was one of them. I thought he would get to the line at a good clip.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

I am fine moving forward with the sf combo of QPon and DC. If we can get DC back on a good price, we are fine at the sf spot. Not every team is going to have Lebron, Melo, Durant, or Leonard. For what we need from our 3 spot (good defense, 4th option on offense), those two have been plenty fine. If you want to make an upgrade then go for it, but its going to cost a lot more, and the improvement won't outweigh the price.

If Asik wants more than $9 mil you can trim the fat there. What he will command, and what he deserves are two different things, he can rebound, but he is a liability on the other end of the court. If you can save money by signing a Koufas, do you do it? I think the savings, and the lack of head scratchers on the offensive end would be worth it. What you lose on the boards (you gain in points and fewer to's).

I know we will be better wether we make moves or not, but everyone else will be better as well. The Thunder will be healthy, The Suns will be healthy, the Jazz will be better. Luckly the Spurs and Mavs have to get old, but for all the talk of us certainly making the playoffs next season, its no certainty given that the NBA doesn't operate in a vacuum where we are the only team improving.

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If you can get Koufos cheaper its a no brainer. He can catch, finish better than Asik, is much more mobile, younger, and a good rim protector.

I'd be willing to give Koufos 5-6 million.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

I agree that he played hero ball way too much. I think his slashing ability is usually only helpful in the middle of the game when the team doesn't have a game plan.

Not sure how to fix that though, because his ability to get to the rim is a huge part of our offense.

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You put him in a position that minimizes the exposure of his flaws and gives him more opportunities to utilize his strengths. He is vulnerable running the offense with his poor decision making and hero ball tendencies. Off the bench with Cole and Ryno allows him to play within his skills.

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Originally Posted by SilkySlim

no, hes a starting pg or sg

no matter how many times u repeat otherwise

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On a bad team sure, on a championship team, no.


Maybe you missed the epic collapse where the 0-356 Warriors in games where they enter the 4th down 20 got their first win in that situation? But Evans botched almost every single possession he was the ball handler from 6 minutes on down in the fourth. Maybe if it was an outlier issue you could chalk it up to the moment but it is something that has happened all season.

Evans is not a starting PG. As an off guard starter he has no value as a defender, can't jump shoot and is only above average as a cutter.

Right now his ceiling is a 6th man on a championship team.

I appreciate all he did this year to keep the ship afloat but Evans has literally reached Jimmer status around here with some people.

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Originally Posted by Pantazis76

alright.. but my point is that no matter what we do, we ain't overcoming them for the playoff hunt, gosh

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I don't know. I think we can win 50-55 games when healthy, maybe more. Who knows.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

On a bad team sure, on a championship team, no.


Maybe you missed the epic collapse where the 0-356 Warriors in games where they enter the 4th down 20 got their first win in that situation? But Evans botched almost every single possession he was the ball handler from 6 minutes on down in the fourth. Maybe if it was an outlier issue you could chalk it up to the moment but it is something that has happened all season.

Evans is not a starting PG. As an off guard starter he has no value as a defender, can't jump shoot and is only above average as a cutter.

Right now his ceiling is a 6th man on a championship team.

I appreciate all he did this year to keep the ship afloat but Evans has literally reached Jimmer status around here with some people.

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That's cool. Who do you think takes his place though?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ke2HNXlsIWA

Watch the video i just posted and then tell me how we move forward.

Evans and Ryno both have some Jimmer status about them.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

That's cool. Who do you think takes his place though?

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IMO?

Jrue. Like was the original plan before he went down and we asked Evans to move to the bench. Jrue, Gordon, Qpon or FA SF, Davis, Asik or whoever we sign.

Bench: Cole, Evans, Cuningham or FA SF, Ryno, Ajinca or FA Center.

Evans can't guard 1's in this league, struggles against 2's and can't guard 3's. Jrue is the better facilitator and more versatile offensively and has the potential to be the best defensive point guard in the league next to CP3.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

That's cool. Who do you think takes his place though?

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what do you mean takes his place?
What place does he even have who knows..
His not our starting PG is he? or SG or SF? His a bench guy and theres many guys out there that can take a bench role..

The more I think about it the more I tend to side with NO Bronco. Hindsight being 20/20 (or 50/50 depending on who you ask in Carolina), given the option between RoLo and GV (totaling $12mil) or Evans ($11mil + whoever fills the center spot), I think I bypass on Evans and go with the 2 for 1.

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Originally Posted by Pantazis76

what do you mean takes his place?
What place does he even have who knows..
His not our starting PG is he? or SG or SF? His a bench guy and theres many guys out there that can take a bench role..

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His place as the slasher that can get to the rim.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

IMO?

Jrue. Like was the original plan before he went down and we asked Evans to move to the bench. Jrue, Gordon, Qpon or FA SF, Davis, Asik or whoever we sign.

Bench: Cole, Evans, Cuningham or FA SF, Ryno, Ajinca or FA Center.

Evans can't guard 1's in this league, struggles against 2's and can't guard 3's. Jrue is the better facilitator and more versatile offensively and has the potential to be the best defensive point guard in the league next to CP3.

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Easy to say the injured guy is better.

Tyreke Evans will never be an effective weapon consistently throughout the playoffs. He is a 1 trick pony on offense and the good teams in the playoffs take away your strengths. His game will look good in the reg season but will not translate to playoff success. He is a liability when shooting the ball outside 5 feet. You can't play him at the 2. Hes a B- to C+ player in the NBA imo. He doesn't fit well with this team. He lacks bbiq big time. He doesn't push it up the floor, killing the pace of our offense. I really hope we trade him. We need a starting qulaity sf as well. Sorry but Qpon is not that even if he did play really good for us at times. He's a perfect 2nd unit sf for some scoring off the bench. Asik I'm torn on. Love that he is a banger down low, can rebound with the best of them but God dam he's anemic on the offensive side of the court. If we can keep him for the right price then I feel we should. No more than 8-10m per year tho. I honestly feel 10 is too much. If he walks we gave up ANOTHER 1st rd pick and got absolutely nothing in return. I'm hoping we see wholesale changes starting with Dell, down onto Monty. It'll be a fun offseason for sure.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

The more I think about it the more I tend to side with NO Bronco. Hindsight being 20/20 (or 50/50 depending on who you ask in Carolina), given the option between RoLo and GV (totaling $12mil) or Evans ($11mil + whoever fills the center spot), I think I bypass on Evans and go with the 2 for 1.

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Honestly don't even think it's a close one either. Give me Rolo, and Gv all day. Gv bbiq x1k more than Reke. Plus we still have a 1st rd pick in that scenario as well.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

Watch the video i just posted and then tell me how we move forward.

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Really?? A highlight video? I can find u 100 Reke DOH!!! Moments too and make a video of them.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

Easy to say the injured guy is better.

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Cmon man please tell me you aren't saying Reke is better than Holiday?? Please tell me it ain't so. Good lord

So are you taking GV/RoLo/and a first round pick (for $13-14mil) or Reke/Asik/Withey for ($19mil).

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

So are you taking GV/RoLo/and a first round pick (for $13-14mil) or Reke/Asik/Withey for ($19mil).

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Lol exactly. I think that's laughable actually. With this roster we are currently staring at. It's a no brainier.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

Easy to say the injured guy is better.

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Jrue is a more versatile offensive player, a vastly superior defensive player and a much better facilitator. If you want to go with the guy that is worse in all those things as a our starting PG, you need to actually make the case as to why. If you want him at the 2, you need to explain why he is a better option then Gordon who is superior player off the ball and better defensively.

Knowing what I know now about Jrue's injury, and how he played through it (and played well), I am excited as to what he and AD can do together moving forward. If somebody were to take Reke as the pg (moving forward) over Jrue, I would ask that they check themselves in to a mental hospital.

Jrue has to be healthy and starting for this team to move forward. He's too important on this squad. Evans is better suited as a backup.

Evans is better suited on another team if we are being honest. If Jrue is your starter, Cole is your backup. Evans in the 2nd unit without the ball no es bueno as he needs the ball in his hands to create. Save the headache, keep Jrue and Cole (which moving forward will be one scary combo), move Reke for assets towards the future.

And if people don't think we can move Reke, Ryno, Gordon, and get something in return just look at this list. With Demps we can move bad assets for better assets, and good assets for better ones.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

I'd be willing to give Koufos 5-6 million.

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And his agent wouldn't be willing to take that. He will get something closer to Asik than most think.

5-6 million is nothing in the new cap era. People need to readjust what prices mean moving forward.