Patric Young

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

MUST, MUST, MUST read on Russ Smith here

http://www.courier-journal.com/story...ican/12363801/

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Read it, can't wait to see him play.

MÜLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER!

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

But Ben Wallace and he are nothing alike!

Ben Wallace gobbled up rebounds amazingly well and Patric Young is not that good at it.

Obviously, the Pels don't know what they're talking about...

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yea i agree, they may just mean Both are undrafted, undersized non offensive 5's. young may be a better on ball defender and more versatile, but wallace was one of the greatest at blocking and rebound ever, so i don't agree with the comparison. for example in college, wallace averaged 10 rpg, young averaged 6

Lance Thomas++

I like the idea of a guy who makes his teammates better by practice.
Not the game.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

That's what we'll use the MLE and BAE on as long as we still have them after the Asik deal.

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Which, as a sidenote, is my main problem with the Asik deal but we'll come back to that after people start complaining about how we are forced to play inferior players big minutes while we have tens of millions resting on the bench.

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Originally Posted by Jabberwalker

Which, as a sidenote, is my main problem with the Asik deal but we'll come back to that after people start complaining about how we are forced to play inferior players big minutes while we have tens of millions resting on the bench.

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If your assumption is correct, I think a lot of people will actually agree with you. But the problem has always been that you are assuming that hasn't happened yet.

If the roster has to be purged just to absorb him, then there will be some legit criticism. But we aren't there yet. This conversation should be had in a week from today, but you were determined to have it a week ago.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

If your assumption is correct, I think a lot of people will actually agree with you. But the problem has always been that you are assuming that hasn't happened yet.

If the roster has to be purged just to absorb him, then there will be some legit criticism. But we aren't there yet. This conversation should be had in a week from today, but you were determined to have it a week ago.

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But like trading this years pick, it should have been judged not off of who they picked but rather the value beforehand. If there was already a deal in place then I would have no criticism. Right now we're in a jam until Dell gets us out of it. That's a risky situation. At this point it looks like we're just as likely to be starting bargain bin players on the wings as it is that we start any decent player. I know Dell can pluck minimum players but is that really the move we'd hope for? A brain Roberts level player on the wings while we rest guys?
Sorry, not trying to thread-jack. I do really like Patric Young. I am excited to see him play and see his effect on our squad.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

If your assumption is correct, I think a lot of people will actually agree with you. But the problem has always been that you are assuming that hasn't happened yet.

If the roster has to be purged just to absorb him, then there will be some legit criticism. But we aren't there yet. This conversation should be had in a week from today, but you were determined to have it a week ago.

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It's the same reason I found the whole "we gave away a first for a 1 year rental" so annoying because we have no idea how it will pay out. Dell could make it a mission to extend Asik right from the start. He could use Birds rights and give him a great deal.

Lowry was just signed as a UFA to the team he was currently on. Its like people want to look at the trade in the absolute worst light possible and then complain about it based on the absolute worst thing happening. "We lost a lottery pick, Asik will command a max and we won't pay him. 1 yr rental. Dell making moves for his job and sold our future for a first round exit this year."

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Originally Posted by Jabberwalker

But like trading this years pick, it should have been judged not off of who they picked but rather the value beforehand. If there was already a deal in place then I would have no criticism. Right now we're in a jam until Dell gets us out of it. That's a risky situation. At this point it looks like we're just as likely to be starting bargain bin players on the wings as it is that we start any decent player. I know Dell can pluck minimum players but is that really the move we'd hope for? A brain Roberts level player on the wings while we rest guys?
Sorry, not trying to thread-jack. I do really like Patric Young. I am excited to see him play and see his effect on our squad.

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Again, you are assuming. Luke Babbitt not at practice today tells me just the opposite. Tells me that there is something already in place.

I don't know why it is so hard to wait to evaluate. We will have literally nothing to talk about from late July to early October. Plenty of time to discuss when we see the end product, not our assumptions of what the end product will be.

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Originally Posted by Jabberwalker

But like trading this years pick, it should have been judged not off of who they picked but rather the value beforehand. If there was already a deal in place then I would have no criticism. Right now we're in a jam until Dell gets us out of it. That's a risky situation. At this point it looks like we're just as likely to be starting bargain bin players on the wings as it is that we start any decent player. I know Dell can pluck minimum players but is that really the move we'd hope for? A brain Roberts level player on the wings while we rest guys?
Sorry, not trying to thread-jack. I do really like Patric Young. I am excited to see him play and see his effect on our squad.

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Looks you jus hijacked the thread. SMH

http://www.nola.com/pelicans/index.s..._bring_si.html

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"They see me as a little Ben Wallace," Young said referring to the former Detroit Pistons NBA Defensive MVP and perennial rebounding champ. "And I'm happy with that, playing that role. It's a good feeling, feeling as though I'm wanted."

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Again, you are assuming. Luke Babbitt not at practice today tells me just the opposite. Tells me that there is something already in place.

I don't know why it is so hard to wait to evaluate. We will have literally nothing to talk about from late July to early October. Plenty of time to discuss when we see the end product, not our assumptions of what the end product will be.

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If we can't judge this move until we see what else Dell does then we can't judge the Holiday trade until we see Saric and Noel in the NBA. A move should be judged based off of what it was at the time. If there was an immediate move already in place I'd agree with you, but this far into free agency it looks like we're hoping things work out.

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Originally Posted by Jabberwalker

If we can't judge this move until we see what else Dell does then we can't judge the Holiday trade until we see Saric and Noel in the NBA. A move should be judged based off of what it was at the time. If there was an immediate move already in place I'd agree with you, but this far into free agency it looks like we're hoping things work out.

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Because you always know what Dell is doing before it happens, right?

I just don't get why we can't wait a week. I am not saying years. Just see what the totality of this thing looks like in its final form. I don't get why that is so hard. Is the world ending in 3 days or something?

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Originally Posted by WhoDatPelican

http://www.nola.com/pelicans/index.s..._bring_si.html

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This article is amazing. Especially the part about having to keep The Saints coaches away from Patric because of his size and strength.

It's true. Dude looks like he could be a linebacker and just LIGHT people up.

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Originally Posted by Jabberwalker

If we can't judge this move until we see what else Dell does then we can't judge the Holiday trade until we see Saric and Noel in the NBA. A move should be judged based off of what it was at the time. If there was an immediate move already in place I'd agree with you, but this far into free agency it looks like we're hoping things work out.

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If we have to judge the trade by what it was when it happened then the trade was Asik for a protected 1st.

You can't add in the lose of MLE, Bi-Annual, or anything else as a reason for hating the trade because those have nothing to do with the trade. The MLE and BIAnnual are completely separate events that can be kept or lost depending on what other trades that Dell make. It could be just as easily said that Dell gave away the MLE and BA to keep Ryno.

Another one: http://www.nba.com/pelicans/news/pel...presence-paint

After watching that video i like this dude even more. SUMMER LEAGUE!! :D

It's great and annoying at the same time. Cuz now I have expectations for these totally meaningless games. I mean, keeping score is only really a formality. But I expect us to be a great defensive team that'll score a lot in transition.

Even though I know defense takes time.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

It's great and annoying at the same time. Cuz now I have expectations for these totally meaningless games. I mean, keeping score is only really a formality. But I expect us to be a great defensive team that'll score a lot in transition.

Even though I know defense takes time.

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Im going to watch the SL games with the goal of seeing Young lay some monster screens.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Im going to watch the SL games with the goal of seeing Young lay some monster screens.

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I haven't seen him play before. Seems like he should be a beast on screens.

When i heard "like a lil Ben Wallace" i was like...

http://i.imgur.com/4i8NS.gif

The pickups of Russ Smith and Pat Young, along with the trading of first round picks, prove that Dell Demps will choose the known over the unknown 100% of the time. And how can you blame him when every year guys like Mason Plumlee and Tim Hardaway Jr. have much more success in the NBA than guys like Lucas Nogueira and Dennis Schroeder.

Dennis Schroeder.

Oh yeah. What ever happened to him? He did anything in the league at all yet?

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Dennis Schroeder.

Oh yeah. What ever happened to him? He did anything in the league at all yet?

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No one knows what happens in Atlanta.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

The pickups of Russ Smith and Pat Young, along with the trading of first round picks, prove that Dell Demps will choose the known over the unknown 100% of the time. And how can you blame him when every year guys like Mason Plumlee and Tim Hardaway Jr. have much more success in the NBA than guys like Lucas Nogueira and Dennis Schroeder.

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Outside of the top 5 or 8, the draft is more miss than hit.

An article about draft pick percentages: http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/20...hornets-picks/

It has numbers!

Can we allow him to earn his adoration for once guys :hihi: ; I'm really want him to be a big deal too but the same things were happening last year w Whithey who was barely serviceable.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

Can we allow him to earn his adoration for once guys :hihi: ; I'm really want him to be a big deal too but the same things were happening last year w Whithey who was barely serviceable.

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but... but.... SUMMER LEAGUE!!!!! :hihi:

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Originally Posted by WhoDatPelican

but... but.... SUMMER LEAGUE!!!!! :hihi:

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The funny thing is I don't even think we've played one of those yet! It's anticipation of summer league LOL.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

Can we allow him to earn his adoration for once guys :hihi: ; I'm really want him to be a big deal too but the same things were happening last year w Whithey who was barely serviceable.

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I'll trade you. If people stop being negative about the Asik trade, I'll stop being positive about Young.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I'll trade you. If people stop being negative about the Asik trade, I'll stop being positive about Young.

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I don't mind being positive tbh I just think the hype machine is taking over now. That being said, I love the Asik trade!

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Dennis Schroeder.

Oh yeah. What ever happened to him? He did anything in the league at all yet?

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He is the third point guard on his team, behind Shelvin Mack.
Yes it would be awesome to get Patric Young.
It's odd no one picked him.
Could be a first rounder in the last years draft.

I still think comparing Young to Wallace is absolutely absurd. Prime Ben Wallace was an automatic top 5 rebounder and DPOY candidate. I understand the comparison from a physical standpoint and kind of from a skill set standpoint, but juxtaposing those two, just placing them in the same light, is an insult to Ben Wallace imo.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

I don't mind being positive tbh I just think the hype machine is taking over now. That being said, I love the Asik trade!

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I see a lot of people pulling hard for the guy but I don't see a ton of people trying to say he is even a lock for our final team.

He seems cool and down to earth. Works hard and is different from any other big currently on our roster. I know I'm hoping he makes the team. But I don't see people saying he is going to be an all-star.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I see a lot of people pulling hard for the guy but I don't see a ton of people trying to say he is even a lock for our final team.

He seems cool and down to earth. Works hard and is different from any other big currently on our roster. I know I'm hoping he makes the team. But I don't see people saying he is going to be an all-star.

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This is just where it starts man.. Trust, I'm rooting for him too

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Originally Posted by PelsFan2313

I still think comparing Young to Wallace is absolutely absurd. Prime Ben Wallace was an automatic top 5 rebounder and DPOY candidate. I understand the comparison from a physical standpoint and kind of from a skill set standpoint, but juxtaposing those two, just placing them in the same light, is an insult to Ben Wallace imo.

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It was in the article. It was a comment made BY the coaching staff. About who they want him to try and be. I see nothing wrong with people telling him to model his game after Wallace.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

It was in the article. It was a comment made BY the coaching staff. About who they want him to try and be. I see nothing wrong with people telling him to model his game after Wallace.

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Nah I wasn't referring to anything said in the article. I've seen that comparison directly made by many Pels fans since the moment we've drafted him both here and through other media outlets. That's who and what I was addressing. Sorry if that was unclear. I just think people need to keep in mind the standard that is being set when you talk about a Ben Wallace. I say shoot for the stars. But don't be surprised when you discover how far they are.

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Originally Posted by PelsFan2313

Nah I wasn't referring to anything said in the article. I've seen that comparison directly made by many Pels fans since the moment we've drafted him both here and through other media outlets. That's who and what I was addressing. Sorry if that was unclear. I just think people need to keep in mind the standard that is being set when you talk about a Ben Wallace. I say shoot for the stars. But don't be surprised when you discover how far they are.

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I knew what you meant my point was there are media outlets AND coaches on the very team using that comparison. It's not as if people here are pulling it out of thin air. It's obviously a valid comparison in some regards if it's what our Coaching staff uses.

I don't think anyone has said he WILL be Wallace.

I just don't like how if you say that he is nothing like Wallace that you are implying he won't be good. I mean, AD is nothing like Kareem, but that doesn't mean I don't think he can be an all-time great. It is just a bad comparison.

Wallace was known for his rebounding and shot blocking and Young's biggest weakness is probably his defensive rebounding.

Can he bring the same kind of intangibles? Sure. But production wise, he is just a different player. I mean, Young actually has a solid jumper. He won't ever shoot 30% from the line.

Just totally different strengths and totally different weaknesses.

I think it's smart play for the coaching staff to build up his confidence so high. If he shows he can play with the type of energy and effort that Wallace brought night in and night in throughout his career, then he'll be the perfect 4th or 5th big for this team. The type of guy who can come in and punish other teams when they start fouling Davis hard. If not, oh well we have nearly nothing invested in him.

The Patric Young / Ben Wallace comparison is one of the worst comparisons I have ever heard.

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Originally Posted by Big-EZ

The Patric Young / Ben Wallace comparison is one of the worst comparisons I have ever heard.

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But they are both undersized and strong.

Even though 6'10" pushing 250lbs isn't exactly undersized...

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Even though 6'10" pushing 250lbs isn't exactly undersized...

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His issue is his standing reach - similar to the average small forward. As a big, you play defense with your hands up, not with your head. To me, that makes his very undersized for his position. And it makes it very unlikely that he will be a good shot blocker and defensive rebounder.

Offensive rebounding is more quickness and effort. I think he will do that just fine.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I just don't like how if you say that he is nothing like Wallace that you are implying he won't be good. I mean, AD is nothing like Kareem, but that doesn't mean I don't think he can be an all-time great. It is just a bad comparison.

Wallace was known for his rebounding and shot blocking and Young's biggest weakness is probably his defensive rebounding.

Can he bring the same kind of intangibles? Sure. But production wise, he is just a different player. I mean, Young actually has a solid jumper. He won't ever shoot 30% from the line.

Just totally different strengths and totally different weaknesses.

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That's not the discussion though.

People are criticizing the use of Ben Wallace when even the coaching staff has used that exact comparison. That's what is being discussed. I haven't seen anyone implying he was going to be bad but I've also not seen anyone say he would produce like Wallace either. It's just a comparison of who he should strive to be. That "type" of player.

Personally I don't care to compare him to anyone because players are all so different. But I don't think other people should come in all holier-than-thou and act like people are wrong for saying the comparison when the media and coaches are the ones perpetuating it. Obviously they feel there's merit to it.

Type of player (energy, effort, defense) and Type of production (numbers, efficiency, etc.) are two different things and I think that is where the disconnect is.

If you are talking about type of player, then yes, Young can be like that. But if you are projecting his max production, he is NOTHING like Wallace.

Its just an issue of two groups of people talking about two different things who think they are talking about the same thing. The cause of 90% of disagreements.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

His issue is his standing reach - similar to the average small forward. As a big, you play defense with your hands up, not with your head. To me, that makes his very undersized for his position. And it makes it very unlikely that he will be a good shot blocker and defensive rebounder.

Offensive rebounding is more quickness and effort. I think he will do that just fine.

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Fair enough. But you also play defense with your feet and lower body. Get too handsy and it's a foul. He's got great strength so it'll be hard for people to get position on him. And his weak side defense shouldn't suffer much at all, provided he has good timing. But luckily, few teams will bring a true post threat off the bench for him to have to contend with.

Yeah, I don't worry about his overall defense. Like I said, just his defensive rebounding and his ability to block shots. Those were Wallace's two strengths. But there have been tons of good defenders who didn't block shots. Not a necessity

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Type of player (energy, effort, defense) and Type of production (numbers, efficiency, etc.) are two different things and I think that is where the disconnect is.

If you are talking about type of player, then yes, Young can be like that. But if you are projecting his max production, he is NOTHING like Wallace.

Its just an issue of two groups of people talking about two different things who think they are talking about the same thing. The cause of 90% of disagreements.

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Thank you for clarifying that point of disconnect. That's what I was trying to communicate. I understand the type of player comparison but the max production aspect is something that needs to be dismissed. Ben Wallace was an all-time great rebounder and defensive anchor in his prime.

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I understand the comparison from a physical standpoint and kind of from a skill set standpoint, but juxtaposing those two, just placing them in the same light, is an insult to Ben Wallace imo.

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I watched a lot of video recently on this guy. Wow. I really believe he will be a great backup center. He has unbelievable lateral quickness which will help him defend the pick n roll. He can maneuver himself in the paint causing other centers to have a terrible time getting in position. He draws fouls in the paint. He sets a hard pick which would look great for tyreke and Anderson on the floor.

He will do certain things very well and I think the Ben Wallace comparison is actually fine. BUT rebounding and shot blocking aren't his strengths. However, he's built like Wallace and he's tough. Put him on court with Davis and a high rebounding group and he may really do something great.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

I watched a lot of video recently on this guy. Wow. I really believe he will be a great backup center. He has unbelievable lateral quickness which will help him defend the pick n roll. He can maneuver himself in the paint causing other centers to have a terrible time getting in position. He draws fouls in the paint. He sets a hard pick which would look great for tyreke and Anderson on the floor.

He will do certain things very well and I think the Ben Wallace comparison is actually fine. BUT rebounding and shot blocking aren't his strengths. However, he's built like Wallace and he's tough. Put him on court with Davis and a high rebounding group and he may really do something great.


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I know I should probably quit complaining about the Ben Wallace comparisons while I can, but statements like these make it hard to do that. That's like saying Player X is like Kobe except he isn't an above average scorer and lacks the competitive edge Kobe possessed...but other than that the Kobe comparison is totally fine. I mean rebounding and blocking...that's what Ben Wallace did better than just about every big in the mid 2000s. If those aren't Young's strengths, a Ben Wallace comparison from the context of his skillset, in addition to his potential max production (discussed in the posts above), is simply invalid. I'll give you build, but honestly anything else other than perhaps "intangibles" (like toughness and hustle) which as the word suggests is difficult to even define, let alone quantify, the comparisons to Big Ben should stop. My last post on this topic, I promise.

Russ Smith reminds me of Steve Nash, except he isn't a good shooter and doesn't have good court vision.