New Orleans Pelicans MLE Tournament

Just playing around with ideas. Let's say events workout that wind up with Parsons going to the Suns, that would obviate their need for Tucker, correct?

Now...are the events that has Parsons to the Suns conceivable? I'm not familiar with the frustrating miasma that is the NBA cap like talking about.

It seems like the only two likely scenarios is that the Rockets match any offer for Parsons or they trade him in a package. Now, if Suns take on their bad contracts too, then maybe


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In case you haven't checked yet, a couple of match ups are already up - Ariza vs. Okafor and Jordan Hill vs. CJ Miles

Go read and vote:

http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/tag/mle-tournament/

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

We have guys working out here every summer that we dont keep the next year. We are talking up Ajinca, Babbtt, Withey, etc right now and helping them improve their game. If we get a chance to upgrade, they are gone in a blink.

The rumor is that they are going after Deng. If they land Deng, Tucker is gone. If they dont, he probably stays

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Its a rumor now. McNamera just said it.

Darn I was hoping I could see the results of the voting after I voted. Anyway. Voted Ariza (obviously) and Hill.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Darn I was hoping I could see the results of the voting after I voted. Anyway. Voted Ariza (obviously) and Hill.

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In years past we have found that seeing the results have influenced the voting. More downside to showing it than upside we figured.

I will say that one of your guys is leading, the other is trailing.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

In years past we have found that seeing the results have influenced the voting. More downside to showing it than upside we figured.

I will say that one of your guys is leading, the other is trailing.

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If I had to guess I'd say CJ Miles is leading Hill. But that darn Okafor contract has me wondering if people are going the wait for 2015 path. I hope not. I'm taking a Tucker and Ariza to the end!

I sort of feel that Ariza and Tucker got a lot of open looks in there respective offenses and that led to great shooting years for both. I'd like a great 3 and D wing but i'm not sure either player qualifies.

I'd much rather find a good defensive center (but there isn't really on available), and fill the rest of the roster with cheap shooters, even if their defense is lacking like Miles, Morrow, Marvin Williams, Caron Butler, Mike Miller, Alan Anderson, Richard Jefferson and others. I think trotting Ajinca and a not ready Whithey out there hurts us more than Darius Miller (has to get that 3 back) or Morrow playing out of position at the 3.

I'm thinking of voting for Jordan hill just because that dad joke at the end was so terrible

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

If I had to guess I'd say CJ Miles is leading Hill. But that darn Okafor contract has me wondering if people are going the wait for 2015 path. I hope not. I'm taking a Tucker and Ariza to the end!

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If I had to guess, I would say it's the other way....

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Originally Posted by ramsters60

If I had to guess, I would say it's the other way....

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One of you is right!

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

One of you is right!

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we leave no stone unturned in search of the truth!

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

One of you is right!

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I knew it!

Just in case it is Okafor leading Ariza I just want to case for Ariza now and say, "Fly My Pretties! Fly. Fly! FLY!"

Why can I vote for both players at the same time? Shouldn't it be radio buttons instead of check boxes?

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

In case you haven't checked yet, a couple of match ups are already up - Ariza vs. Okafor and Jordan Hill vs. CJ Miles

Go read and vote:

http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/tag/mle-tournament/

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nice refresher, I always underestimated demps though, assumed he'd follow status quo and keep the pick. curious to see what he's going to do this time. I think his big strengths are in getting those role players on the cheap, so looking forward to see what he comes up with

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Originally Posted by Jabberwalker

Why can I vote for both players at the same time? Shouldn't it be radio buttons instead of check boxes?

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Why would you be able to? It's a tournament, so it's one or the other.

Going with ariza and cj miles here

Today is the hardest battle for me to decide on. Blatche vs. Swaggy P. I go back and forth. Who did you vote for and why?

http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/20...medium=twitter

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Today is the hardest battle for me to decide on. Blatche vs. Swaggy P. I go back and forth. Who did you vote for and why?

http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/20...medium=twitter

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How is this even a contest? If you have a C you can get in the MLE range that can give you what you need you take it. Notice how many C's we have on the list vs how many SF? Gotta go Blatche over Swaggy P.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

How is this even a contest? If you have a C you can get in the MLE range that can give you what you need you take it. Notice how many C's we have on the list vs how many SF? Gotta go Blatche over Swaggy P.

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My argument would be: Would you prefer Young and Ajinca or Darius Miller and Blatche?

We have two solid center prospects and nobody at the SF position. Is Blatche that much better than Ajinca and Withey over the next 3 years if you continue to develop them? Remember, bigs under Monty tend to take a nice little jump in Year 2 of the system. Ajinca never had a training camp and Withey just started putting it together in the final month.

We don't have any guys with reasonable upside at the 3.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

My argument would be: Would you prefer Young and Ajinca or Darius Miller and Blatche?

We have two solid center prospects and nobody at the SF position. Is Blatche that much better than Ajinca and Withey over the next 3 years if you continue to develop them? Remember, bigs under Monty tend to take a nice little jump in Year 2 of the system. Ajinca never had a training camp and Withey just started putting it together in the final month.

We don't have any guys with reasonable upside at the 3.

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I'd rather Blatche and trade into the draft or play Reke there. Or even bring Aminu back.

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I think I just died. Bring Aminu back?? Outside of re-signing Stiemsma, there is nothing that scares me more this offseason than bringing back Aminu. I would prefer Miller or even Southerland. Heck, I would take a chance on Brandon Rush for the min. before Aminu

Aminu coming back?

My heart just skipped a beat. And not in the "I'm in love" way.

In the "I'm going to blow up the planet" way.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I think I just died. Bring Aminu back?? Outside of re-signing Stiemsma, there is nothing that scares me more this offseason than bringing back Aminu. I would prefer Miller or even Southerland. Heck, I would take a chance on Brandon Rush for the min. before Aminu

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Maybe. I'm just saying that you fill the C need as best as possible. We can get a SF elsewhere. Maybe a trade for Webster or Budinger. How many shots at a C to fill our need do we have? Much fewer.

I would go the other way. Use the MLE for a wing and then use the cap space next year once we dump Gordon for a C.

Only way I want to add a center is if he is a definite huge upgrade over what we got.

Also, when thinking about Gordon deals, a high priced center seems the most likely route: Chandler, McGee, Hibbert, Sanders, B. Lopez.

If I got 18 to spend, figuring Gordon will be gone one way or the other, I would rather budget 5-6 for the SF and 12-13 for the C.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I would go the other way. Use the MLE for a wing and then use the cap space next year once we dump Gordon for a C.

Only way I want to add a center is if he is a definite huge upgrade over what we got.

Also, when thinking about Gordon deals, a high priced center seems the most likely route: Chandler, McGee, Hibbert, Sanders, B. Lopez.

If I got 18 to spend, figuring Gordon will be gone one way or the other, I would rather budget 5-6 for the SF and 12-13 for the C.

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I guess it all depends on if you see AD as our C. I do so I'd rather not spend the money on one that will just command minutes from AD and Ryno.

I see AD as the C, been begging for it for two yrs but if Monty doesn't, nothing I can do about it but hope that if he is gonna play a C next to him; it is a very good center


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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I see AD as the C, been begging for it for two yrs but if Monty doesn't, nothing I can do about it but hope that if he is gonna play a C next to him; it is a very good center


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I'd rather Dell force his hand by bringing in a really good SF and having the best frontcourt players be AD and Ryno.

Heck, honestly I think Monty understands. Before Ryno's injury AD was playing 55% of his minutes at C. I don't think it's too far fetched that injuries force Monty's hand. Especially when you figure we lost 2 of our 3 players that could play PF. He used Withey as a PF late in the season for goodness sake.

Besides I've heard you comment multiple times on the podcast that the arguments we were making at the end of the season was about guys that Monty most likely wouldn't have been playing if we weren't so injured. I'm not set just yet on chalking up the AD/Ryno combo as never going to happen under Monty.

Had to go Blatche over Young. This is a completely biased and unfair assessment on my part, but I just can't see Young making the necessary sacrifices to come here and help us turn our team around. In LA, even though the team was crappy, he was still in LA and enjoying the bright lights of one of the world's most glamorous cities. There's something about him that tells me that put a pep in his step. You can say the same about Blatche and Brooklyn except Brook Lopez's return means less of a role. I think both players have reputation for being immature, but I think Swaggy needs the spotlight. New Orleans + AD+ Jrue +Tyreke = not enough attention let alone shots for Swaggy P. Annnnd if AD is ultimately a C. 3 year deal for a guy like Blatche is the perfect bridge to that scenario.

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Originally Posted by DefensiveMind

Had to go Blatche over Young. This is a completely biased and unfair assessment on my part, but I just can't see Young making the necessary sacrifices to come here and help us turn our team around. In LA, even though the team was crappy, he was still in LA and enjoying the bright lights of one of the world's most glamorous cities. There's something about him that tells me that put a pep in his step. You can say the same about Blatche and Brooklyn except Brook Lopez's return means less of a role. I think both players have reputation for being immature, but I think Swaggy needs the spotlight. New Orleans + AD+ Jrue +Tyreke = not enough attention let alone shots for Swaggy P. Annnnd if AD is ultimately a C. 3 year deal for a guy like Blatche is the perfect bridge to that scenario.

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Yeah I agree with this. I begged that we got Nick Young as our 2 when we still had Paul and West. I thought he would be the perfect compliment to Paul. Now I just don't think we have a big enough roll for Swaggy P

My choices would be:

Bracket 1: Williams
Bracket 2: Blatche
Bracket 3: Sefolosha
Bracket 4: Hamilton

Small forward is the bigger need, we have serviceable centers plus ad and ryno will be the closers. We have nothing at small forward unless u plan on starting gordon and putting tyreke at the 3. Id like to only do a 1 year contract then get a huge free agent small forward next year before davis gets his big deal. It just sounds like the best thing to do.

Id try to get a decent small forward on a 1 year deal.

Ajinca and whithey are not serviceable. Jason smith is, he's too shot happy for me though.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

Ajinca and whithey are not serviceable. Jason smith is, he's too shot happy for me though.

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What specifically makes Ajinca and Withey not serviceable?

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

Ajinca and whithey are not serviceable. Jason smith is, he's too shot happy for me though.

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Withey is serviceable and will be a better defender than Smith and more efficient offensively in time.

Can somebody try to sell me on Jordan Hamilton because I am having a tough time.

One caveat - You can not use, "He is only 23." as part of your argument. I dont mind saying guys might improve if there is evidence that he has been improving. For instance, Austin improved across the board, so I can project more improvement. But if a guy has been in the league 3 yrs and not improved, you cant use the future imaginary improvement as part of your argument IMO. So, with that in mind, can anybody sell me on Hamilton, because I cant see it.

[MichaelMcNamara;1218838]Can somebody try to sell me on Jordan Hamilton because I am having a tough time.

One caveat - You can not use, "He is only 23." as part of your argument. I dont mind saying guys might improve if there is evidence that he has been improving. For instance, Austin improved across the board, so I can project more improvement. But if a guy has been in the league 3 yrs and not improved, you cant use the future imaginary improvement as part of your argument IMO. So, with that in mind, can anybody sell me on Hamilton, because I cant see it.[/QUOTE]

I like that he is a good three point shooter, good rebounder and good enough defender.

OnlY reason I like him over tucker is his age and he is more versatile offensively.

If by more versatile, you mean he tries more things and fails at them more often, then yes. He shot 39% this year. Thirty-nine percent! Under 48% in the restricted area, which is terrible. Rebounding is above avg, I will give you that, but that is all I can get excited about. Everything else is below avg to terrible.

And what does the age matter if he has shown no signs of improvement? Being young and bad is no better than being old and bad.

People see an age of a guy and think he's going to improve. When looking at a FA, i like to think; if he doesn't grow at all from now on, would I still want this guy on my team?

I'd say he's an ok rebounder, below average at best.
A Liability at the line.
But luckily couldn't get to the line if he had a pen to draw it.
A below average to average defender.
Has a pretty high usage rate for a guy who should be blending into the background.


He's a pretty ok 3 point shooter.

I'd say i don't want that on our team. I think everyone was so sick of Aminu not hitting a 3 they'd take a rotten apple out of the bargain bin if that apple could hit a 3.

Exactly my theory. Aminu is so bad that people are happy with anything. Marvin Williams is this way too.

Can't be how we measure how good the player is IMO


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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Can somebody try to sell me on Jordan Hamilton because I am having a tough time.

One caveat - You can not use, "He is only 23." as part of your argument. I dont mind saying guys might improve if there is evidence that he has been improving. For instance, Austin improved across the board, so I can project more improvement. But if a guy has been in the league 3 yrs and not improved, you cant use the future imaginary improvement as part of your argument IMO. So, with that in mind, can anybody sell me on Hamilton, because I cant see it.

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Easy. He has good size for a SF, has shown himself to be an above average rebounder, a solid 3pt shooter (36% on just over 3 a game), and he will come relatively cheap. Worst case he is a good backup and we need 2 SFs anyway.

I think there's also plenty of upside that has nothing to do with age and more to do with minutes. This is his first year averaging over 10 minutes a game and he showed his rebounding, 3pt shooting, and defense wasn't a fluke. He's also been stuck behind some really good SFs in Gally, then Chandler, then Parsons.

I think you put him in a system where he's not asked to create and instead can spot up from 3pt and he will just fine, not to mention his above average rebounding which will really help us. He seems very much like the 3 and D that most people, including you and I, have cried for in a SF. The real question is other than 2pt FG% what else is there not to like about him?

PJ Tucker shot a blistering 1.7% better from 2pt range. The difference seems to be Hamilton realizes where he's best because he took 53% of his shots from 3pt, while Tucker took 69% of his shots from 2pt. Put it to you like this, Hamilton played 40% of the minutes Tucker did this year, and still took more 3pt attempts than him. Heck this was the first time I actually compared Hamilton to Tucker and I like Hamilton even better than before after doing the comparison.

So, put him in a system where he can just sit behind the 3 point line and let others create for him. Like Houston? Where he shot 39% and had the worst PER of his career. Where he couldnt sniff a minute in the playoffs and got jumped in the rotation by Troy Daniels. And the argument for more minutes might hold water if he didnt get worse the more minutes he got.

Now, if he comes for the min or near min, sure I can be okay with him as the backup. But is he that much better than Miller, who will come for the min and has 2 years in the system under his belt?

And yes, Tucker took more 2's, but what you left out is this also resulted in a FT rate that is twice as high. It is okay to take more 2's if it gets you to the line.

Man, it gets worse.

The offense in Both Denver and Houston was far worse with Hamilton on. Check out these numbers:

Denver (Hamilton off): 106.8 Hamilton on: 101.5 Difference: -5.3
Houston (Hamilton off): 111.6 Hamilton On: 104.2 Difference: -7.4

In his last two months in Houston: Offensive rating was 94 Defensive Rating was 109

I try to be open minded, but I cant do it with this guy. Others can hope to sign him and if he ends up here, I will root for him. But I want nothing to do with Hamilton.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

So, put him in a system where he can just sit behind the 3 point line and let others create for him. Like Houston? Where he shot 39% and had the worst PER of his career. Where he couldnt sniff a minute in the playoffs and got jumped in the rotation by Troy Daniels. And the argument for more minutes might hold water if he didnt get worse the more minutes he got.

Now, if he comes for the min or near min, sure I can be okay with him as the backup. But is he that much better than Miller, who will come for the min and has 2 years in the system under his belt?

And yes, Tucker took more 2's, but what you left out is this also resulted in a FT rate that is twice as high. It is okay to take more 2's if it gets you to the line.

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Why do you keep trying to go back to overall FG and turn a blind eye to the fact that he took over 53% of his attempts from 3pt, so of course his overall FG% is lower. Like I pointed out, compare him to PJ Tucker. He only shot 1.7% worse than Tucker from 2pt and only 2.9% worse from 3pt with a much higher attempt rate. The 39% is a nice shock stat to try and make him look bad but when you dig deeper it makes perfect sense why it's lower. I also find it hilarious that you are trying to point to his PER and yet you moan over PJ Tucker. PJ Tucker posted his highest PER this year, and yet it was only .6 higher than Hamilton's. Want to count FT rate? Ok. Look at their TS%. Hamilton is 3.3% less than Tucker. Want to weight 3pt attempts more than 2pt attempts? Ok. Hamilton's eFG was .7% from Tucker's. Let's look at TRB%. Just over 1% difference. Assist %, .2% difference. Stl%, .1% different. Blk%, .9% in Hamilton's favor. Tov%, 1.7% difference in Hamilton's favor. I just don't see this huge difference between the two that you are trying to say exists.

I don't understand what Daniels has to do with anything. Daniels played for over 80% of his minutes at SG. He got minutes in the playoffs because Beverley had the flu. Daniels didn't put Hamilton on the bench. Parsons did. Where he averaged 42 minutes a game this playoff.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Man, it gets worse.

The offense in Both Denver and Houston was far worse with Hamilton on. Check out these numbers:

Denver (Hamilton off): 106.8 Hamilton on: 101.5 Difference: -5.3
Houston (Hamilton off): 111.6 Hamilton On: 104.2 Difference: -7.4

In his last two months in Houston: Offensive rating was 94 Defensive Rating was 109

I try to be open minded, but I cant do it with this guy. Others can hope to sign him and if he ends up here, I will root for him. But I want nothing to do with Hamilton.

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How do the 2 compare at eFG%?

J ham and Tucker that is.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

How do the 2 compare at eFG%?

J ham and Tucker that is.

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Let me Google that for you. Last season totals:
Jordan Hamilton: .484 eFG
PJ Tucker: .491 eFG

But I prefer TS% because free throws are valuable besides representing better how many pps you get with them.

Hamilton: .507
Tucker: .540

I don't always take stock in "player x couldn't get minutes" because sometimes there are players like Lin who's talents were hidden until they got a chance but it also doesn't NOT mean something as well. I can't say I have seen a lot of Hamilton and the defensive numbers aren't great. Couple that with the fact that most of the threes he does shoot are from above the break where we don't need help and I'm less inclined to have faith that he is the answer but who knows?

I hope we can pry Martel Webster, Corey Brewer (although I'm not in love with the player option in his contract), or Quincy Pondexter (as a backup, most likely).

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Originally Posted by Jabberwalker

Let me Google that for you. Last season totals:
Jordan Hamilton: .484 eFG
PJ Tucker: .491 eFG

But I prefer TS% because free throws are valuable besides representing better how many pps you get with them.

Hamilton: .507
Tucker: .540

I don't always take stock in "player x couldn't get minutes" because sometimes there are players like Lin who's talents were hidden until they got a chance but it also doesn't NOT mean something as well. I can't say I have seen a lot of Hamilton and the defensive numbers aren't great. Couple that with the fact that most of the threes he does shoot are from above the break where we don't need help and I'm less inclined to have faith that he is the answer but who knows?

I hope we can pry Martel Webster, Corey Brewer (although I'm not in love with the player option in his contract), or Quincy Pondexter (as a backup, most likely).

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Depending how our offseason plays out I can see multiple scenarios where Id rather do a S&T for Webster than only bring in Hamilton. Most of my liking him has to do with how cheap he can come, which is great for a backup. I guess I'm in the camp of wanting to bring in 2 SFs this offseason because I don't think Aminu has shown enough for his price and I don't think Miller has shown enough in any way to still be in the NBA. I think it was a big mistake to not sign one of the many mid level SFs last offseason just to try and lie to Gordon about what Reke was coming to do.

So it looks like we agree - Hamilton could be a nice backup if he comes super cheap, but if he is starting for us next year, we are in serious trouble.

I would be ore than fine with Webster and Hamilton. I would be less than thrilled if Hamilton was getting significant minutes though.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Why do you keep trying to go back to overall FG and turn a blind eye to the fact that he took over 53% of his attempts from 3pt, so of course his overall FG% is lower. Like I pointed out, compare him to PJ Tucker. He only shot 1.7% worse than Tucker from 2pt and only 2.9% worse from 3pt with a much higher attempt rate. The 39% is a nice shock stat to try and make him look bad but when you dig deeper it makes perfect sense why it's lower. I also find it hilarious that you are trying to point to his PER and yet you moan over PJ Tucker. PJ Tucker posted his highest PER this year, and yet it was only .6 higher than Hamilton's. Want to count FT rate? Ok. Look at their TS%. Hamilton is 3.3% less than Tucker. Want to weight 3pt attempts more than 2pt attempts? Ok. Hamilton's eFG was .7% from Tucker's. Let's look at TRB%. Just over 1% difference. Assist %, .2% difference. Stl%, .1% different. Blk%, .9% in Hamilton's favor. Tov%, 1.7% difference in Hamilton's favor. I just don't see this huge difference between the two that you are trying to say exists.

I don't understand what Daniels has to do with anything. Daniels played for over 80% of his minutes at SG. He got minutes in the playoffs because Beverley had the flu. Daniels didn't put Hamilton on the bench. Parsons did. Where he averaged 42 minutes a game this playoff.

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Not a big stat guy, but this is about as good of an stat argument as you can make. MM does seem to be off base attacking Hamilton in favor of Tucker. Just off of advance stats, which is just a portion of what a player really does IMO.