In Defense of Monty - A Theory

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Originally Posted by ShamelessPel

The key words in your statement are "thinks" and "aren't". That doesn't dispute the fact that it's still excuses for lack of evaluation/direction.

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TBH i don't think there's any argument with you on this particular subject and thats fine. It's your choice. Some people see it a little different. No bigs.

Makes me want to go back to the first month of the season and find my post about how we don't have enough knowledge to make that kind of statement as to whether or not the coach should be fired. There are plenty of things about his rotations I don't like but unfortunately I can't get the information as to why the decisions were made. Certainly it seems like we could have won a few more games if we played Roberts less and Evans more but maybe there were good reasons for it. People act like they're going to storm Benson's tower with pitchforks to make him fire Monty. No matter how much we talk about it, none of us has any effect on his job and I'm glad it's that way.

From where I'm sitting I think that we'd do great in a very fast, uptempo offense with less focus on defense than offense, playing soft on screens but I've never coached on any level.

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Originally Posted by ShamelessPel

The key words in your statement are "thinks" and "aren't". That doesn't dispute the fact that it's still excuses for lack of evaluation/direction.

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That goes to the back to the point MM was making that Monty's defensive system is most difficult to learn, but probably the most effective once it is learned. So if you were coach you'd just scrap that for more short-term success that may not be better in the long term?

And I know you'll counter and say that it's more excuses, but like others have said here repeatedly we have the least experienced roster in the league, not to mention the most injury-depleted. To some degree, those are plausible reasons and lack of success should be expected.

Just hope and know that the brass will take all circumstances into consideration (including available coaching candidates) and make an educated evaluation from there.

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Originally Posted by djpaul89

That goes to the back to the point MM was making that Monty's defensive system is most difficult to learn, but probably the most effective once it is learned. So if you were coach you'd just scrap that for more short-term success that may not be better in the long term?

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Again, I'll ask MM, you, or anyone else that can provide an answer? Why are the people on the court there when there are people on the bench who do it better? At the very least, would anyone care to opinion that Roberts is better than Rivers on the defensive side of the ball?

I love your signature BallSoHard

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Originally Posted by Jabberwalker

I love your signature BallSoHard

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:hihi:

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Originally Posted by ShamelessPel

Again, I'll ask MM, you, or anyone else that can provide an answer? Why are the people on the court there when there are people on the bench who do it better? At the very least, would anyone care to opinion that Roberts is better than Rivers on the defensive side of the ball?

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MM answered that earlier. Some coaches in the league like to have their younger players CLEARLY win position battles over veterans to make them earn their spots and see what kind of drive they have. Not saying I agree with it fully, but it is a coaching philosophy.

Outside of Withey recently, Miller and Rivers have been spotty or inconsistent at best this season.

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Fans are the worst barometers of whether or not a franchise is going in the right direction. No possible way to remove emotion from the equation and opine objectively. Most of it has to do with what MM has stated. "How much longer are we going to wait to Fire Monty?" Forever because no one on this fourm (I'm sure) is in the Pelicans front office, and thus has no say so. Oh and voting with your butts in the seats, of not in the seats is really hurting the franchise not the coaching staff.

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Originally Posted by djpaul89

MM answered that earlier. Some coaches in the league like to have their younger players CLEARLY win position battles over veterans to make them earn their spots and see what kind of drive they have. Not saying I agree with it fully, but it is a coaching philosophy.

Outside of Withey recently, Miller and Rivers have been spotty or inconsistent at best this season.

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The effort from our starters was horrendous last night. I just don't see the rationale of giving them a free pass. There are plenty of coaches who might have cleared the entire bench to send a message that effort like that wouldn't be tolerated.

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Originally Posted by Davisistheman

Fans are the worst barometers of whether or not a franchise is going in the right direction. No possible way to remove emotion from the equation and opine objectively. Most of it has to do with what MM has stated. "How much longer are we going to wait to Fire Monty?" Forever because no one on this fourm (I'm sure) is in the Pelicans front office, and thus has no say so. Oh and voting with your butts in the seats, of not in the seats is really hurting the franchise not the coaching staff.

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Are you so sure? I mean, Hornetguru is a bit fishy to me..

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Originally Posted by ShamelessPel

The effort from our starters was horrendous last night. I just don't see the rationale of giving them a free pass. There are plenty of coaches who might have cleared the entire bench to send a message that effort like that wouldn't be tolerated.

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Steamer was gone after the 7:43 mark or so (I was watching very closely :hihi:) in the 3rd and was never heard from again. He did not play a lot of minutes and I want to say it was a similar case for Aminu.

To be fair, I don't think many coaches make changes to their 2nd half starting lineups regardless of performance.

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I personally dislike a lot of Monty's decisions- his rotations and his belief that a guy with two fouls should sit out for eternity, but I don't have access to his motivations or long term plan, so it is hard for me to say it is stupid. I would need more access to his long term philosophy, which he wont share.

Jen Hale reported Monday during the Memphis game that Monty will not campaign to get Davis in the All-Star Game. Davis finished 7th in voting. How nice of Monty to defend his best player.

Way to defend Rivers too, Is Monty smiling & clapping?

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Originally Posted by PowerPel

Jen Hale reported Monday during the Memphis game that Monty will not campaign to get Davis in the All-Star Game. Davis finished 7th in voting. How nice of Monty to defend his best player.

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What exactly would Monty do? Please let me know.

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Originally Posted by Inner_GI

What exactly would Monty do? Please let me know.

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Do what other coaches do. Ask the All-Star coach of the West to pick his player up on the open spots.

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Originally Posted by PowerPel

Do what other coaches do. Ask the All-Star coach of the West to pick his player up on the open spots.

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Do you have proof of other coaches doing this?

You think Pop is going to campaign for Duncan? Monty believes this is a TEAM game. Individual accolades likely mean nothing to Monty - and that is one of his philosophies I actually agree with.

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Originally Posted by Inner_GI

Do you have proof of other coaches doing this?

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Why would Jen Hale bring it up during a broadcast?

Per Jen Hale on the broadcast 1-20-13 vs Memphis at 40 sec mark in the 1st,

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

You think Pop is going to campaign for Duncan? Monty believes this is a TEAM game. Individual accolades likely mean nothing to Monty - and that is one of his philosophies I actually agree with.

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The same Pop that says he quits when Duncan quits?

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Originally Posted by PowerPel

Why would Jen Hale bring it up during a broadcast?

Per Jen Hale on the broadcast 1-20-13 vs Memphis at 40 sec mark in the 1st,

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This proves what exactly?

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Originally Posted by Inner_GI

What exactly would Monty do? Please let me know.

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Originally Posted by Inner_GI

Do you have proof of other coaches doing this?

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Originally Posted by Inner_GI

This proves what exactly?

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This forum has turned into a court room.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I love this whole '4 years' argument.

Year 1 his team overperformed. Years 2 and 3, we all knew the goal wasn't wins. Yet, now everyone now uses this against him. Where was this during years 2 and 3? A year ago, I was one of the first people to question him and I got attacked more for that than anything else, ever.

Now, people use that against him to justify their anger for THIS season. Too funny.

Again, I am not a fan of Monty, never have been. But I am grounded enough to know that I dont have enough evidence to make a strong case either way. I know such a small part of the large equation, so I won't be shouting one way or another.

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So how many years do we give him before we should at least expect to see improvement or something different? Regardless of how many excuses we can think of, it all boils down to results. With him, it seems like deja vu ever game, every season.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

This forum has turned into a court room.

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Exactly, what happened to discussion?

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I personally dislike a lot of Monty's decisions- his rotations and his belief that a guy with two fouls should sit out for eternity, but I don't have access to his motivations or long term plan, so it is hard for me to say it is stupid. I would need more access to his long term philosophy, which he wont share.

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Explain to me how you make your decisions when you vote? You probably always have an opinion but then the politician should know much more than you about politics right? So how do you make your decision? I do it based on the past actions of the politicians and results of the actions and then i listen to their new ideas and i try to see if they make sense to me and if i agree with these ideas.

I rest my case . The defense can start calling their witnesses.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

Yes... give him 1 more year with a (relatively) healthy team.

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DAMN, seriously? I think Pelican fans may be the most patient in the NBA, omG.

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Originally Posted by PolishFan

Explain to me how you make your decisions when you vote? You probably always have an opinion but then the politician should know much more than you about politics right? So how do you make your decision? I do it based on the past actions of the politicians and results of the actions and then i listen to their new ideas and i try to see if they make sense to me and if i agree with these ideas.

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Boom goes the dynamite!

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

And what's wrong with having an opinion that says, "I don't know"

I mean, really, fans are privy to like 10-15 percent of all the data that should be used to make the decision. Don't see practices, don't see the game plan, don't see the amount of time and effort Monty puts in (or doesn't), don't know the long term plan of the organization, don't know the alternative options and what those guys want to do with the team or how much salary they demand, and don't know the exact goals trying to be accomplished, etc., etc.

We pressure people to make up their minds one way or the other, but honestly, we are looking at a giant room through the peephole. How are we supposed to form an entire opinion based on how little we see?

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Is this serious? We see the RESULTS, what happens behind the scenes is irrelevant.

Monty does not deserve another year. Injuries are part of all professional sports it does not give you a get out of jail free card. MAYBE if Monty had proven anything than so be IT, but he currently has ZERO accomplishments as a head coaching. We have gotten worse three years in a row. INJURIES ARE ONLY A PART OF OUR PROBLEM. ----POOR COACHING IS THE REAL ISSUE

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Originally Posted by Davisistheman

To a lesser extent the y-factor is Rita LeBlanc. She is being groomed to eventually take over as head of the Saints, I would assume the Pelicans are part of that. Just how much input she is having still remains a question. In short I can see Loomis advising Mr Benson that a change is needed.

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Loomis and Dennis Lauscha would be the decision makers. Lauscha will take over as executive for Benson and will answer to the family trust when Benson is gone. Rita was being groomed to take over for Benson, but that did not work out. She is no longer a major factor in the operation of the Saints or Pelicans. My understanding is that her sense of entitlement pissed everyone off.

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Originally Posted by Bongzilla

Is this serious? We see the RESULTS, what happens behind the scenes is irrelevant.

Monty does not deserve another year. Injuries are part of all professional sports it does not give you a get out of jail free card. MAYBE if Monty had proven anything than so be it, but he currently has ZERO accomplishments as a head coach. We have gotten worse three years in a row. INJURIES ARE ONLY PART OF OUR PROBLEM. -----POOR COACHING IS THE REAL ISSUE
I am truly shocked to see how many won't to give Monty another year.

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Edit.

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Originally Posted by Bongzilla

Is this serious? We see the RESULTS, what happens behind the scenes is irrelevant.
Monty does not deserve another year. Injuries are part of all professional sports it does not give you a get out of jail free card. MAYBE if Monty had proven anything than so be IT, but he currently has ZERO accomplishments as a head coaching. We have gotten worse three years in a row. INJURIES ARE ONLY A PART OF OUR PROBLEM. ----POOR COACHING IS THE REAL ISSUE

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So if Lebron D Wade and Bosh are injured for the playoffs, the result of the heat no winning the championship would be a failure, right? I realize it's extreme, but the other factiors are not irrelvant, which is what i'm trying to say :hihi:

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

This forum has turned into a court room.

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I just don't get how one reporter(who doesn't even spedn all her time covering the NBA) saying something about the coach not selling AD to the All-Star game makes it common place in the entire NBA.

Honestly, if AD doesn't get in, it's not because Monty held him out. That's crazy talk .

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Originally Posted by PolishFan

Explain to me how you make your decisions when you vote? You probably always have an opinion but then the politician should know much more than you about politics right? So how do you make your decision? I do it based on the past actions of the politicians and results of the actions and then i listen to their new ideas and i try to see if they make sense to me and if i agree with these ideas.

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Right and if the president of Costa Rica can't make bring the country into a profit during a 3 year drought with its main staple being argirculture, he doesn't dererve your vote. It is an interesting thought though and a debatable point.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

So if Lebron D Wade and Bosh are injured for the playoffs, the result of the heat no winning the championship would be a failure, right? I realize it's extreme, but the other factiors are not irrelvant, which is what i'm trying to say :hihi:

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He also said "if Monty had proven anything than so be it". The Heat have already established a winning ways before this hypothetical injured playoffs. So it's not the same thing at all. Heck Spolstra even had a winning record BEFORE the Heat got James and Bosh.

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Originally Posted by Inner_GI

I just don't get how one reporter(who doesn't even spedn all her time covering the NBA) saying something about the coach not selling AD to the All-Star game makes it common place in the entire NBA.

Honestly, if AD doesn't get in, it's not because Monty held him out. That's crazy talk .

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I don't think anyone is saying this to be true, I think some of us are wondering why wouldn't he try to help him out? Not that it would make or break his ASG appearance.

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Originally Posted by PolishFan

Explain to me how you make your decisions when you vote? You probably always have an opinion but then the politician should know much more than you about politics right? So how do you make your decision? I do it based on the past actions of the politicians and results of the actions and then i listen to their new ideas and i try to see if they make sense to me and if i agree with these ideas.

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Thats the thing - I DONT know the actions AND results from Monty. I know the results only. I dont know how much he is telling them to push the pace or how he is teaching them to hedge, etc. I only know the results and that isnt enough info for me to call for a mans job

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

BUT THE HEDGING. Seriously though I believe the same thing. Now to me it's apparent Monty isn't going to be an All-world type of coach in New Orleans. And I even believe a change in scenery may be best if we can find someone that we think can be better AND grow with the team (means i don't think George Karl is a good candidate); but the crucifying of Monty by people who know little to nothing about the x's and o's of basketball kills me. And just to make it clear i'm not singling you out shamelesspel because in the grand scheme of thing i know very very little compared to a guy like Monty or any other guy who's ascended into the ranks of NBA coaching, assistant or otherwise.

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That sig tho!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

He also said "if Monty had proven anything than so be it". The Heat have already established a winning ways before this hypothetical injured playoffs. So it's not the same thing at all. Heck Spolstra even had a winning record BEFORE the Heat got James and Bosh.



I don't think anyone is saying this to be true, I think some of us are wondering why wouldn't he try to help him out? Not that it would make or break his ASG appearance.

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Because Monty believes that no one player's accomplisments is bigger than team accomplishments. It's something I can admire, and something AD usually talks about as well.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

He also said "if Monty had proven anything than so be it". The Heat have already established a winning ways before this hypothetical injured playoffs. So it's not the same thing at all. Heck Spolstra even had a winning record BEFORE the Heat got James and Bosh.



I don't think anyone is saying this to be true, I think some of us are wondering why wouldn't he try to help him out? Not that it would make or break his ASG appearance.

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The inital point was what happens behind the scenes is irrelvant. Maybe i cherry picked a bit but the premise is the same. What does what you did in the past have to do with that part of the statement?

Do you think we've gotten worse 3 years in a row? Like if you put this team versus last years teams completely healthy in a 7 game series you think this year's loses?

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Originally Posted by Euphonetiks

Loomis and Dennis Lauscha would be the decision makers. Lauscha will take over as executive for Benson and will answer to the family trust when Benson is gone. Rita was being groomed to take over for Benson, but that did not work out. She is no longer a major factor in the operation of the Saints or Pelicans. My understanding is that her sense of entitlement pissed everyone off.

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Yes, I read a lot of the chatter on Rita months ago, but not being able to verify (Obviously), I just took it with a grain of salt. If true, it may be a blessing, I have no way of knowing for sure, but in my limited experience with that end of it, there was something I never liked or trusted about the Saints being run by her.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

The inital point was what happens behind the scenes is irrelvant. Maybe i cherry picked a bit but the premise is the same. What does what you did in the past have to do with that part of the statement?

Do you think we've gotten worse 3 years in a row? Like if you put this team versus last years teams completely healthy in a 7 game series you think this year's loses?

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Zilla said that Monty shouldn't get a get out of jail free card just because of our injures this season, but followed it up with MAYBE if he had proven anything in the past he would get a pass.

So I was just saying that I don't think your analogy to the Heat injury situation was fair because the Heat's coach has proven he could coach a winning team even before they had 3 stars.

To answer your final question I really don't know. We obviously have more talent on the team this year but defensively we regressed from last year, even when we were healthy.

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Originally Posted by Inner_GI

Because Monty believes that no one player's accomplisments is bigger than team accomplishments. It's something I can admire, and something AD usually talks about as well.

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How is going to an all star game bigger than the team's accomplishments? The NBA gets around 4 off days, it's not like him being there is going to affect the Pelicans in any way. The team this year is a huge disappointment, why wouldn't a coach want to do everything they could to get their star player some recognition he deserves (not to mention the experience of being around the best in the league). It's the fact that he wouldn't even try to help is the issue.

If Monty isn't going to have his player's back why would they have his? No one knows ADs feelings but what if this really meant a lot to him? It's a shame his coach wouldn't do anything.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Zilla said that Monty shouldn't get a get out of jail free card just because of our injures this season, but followed it up with MAYBE if he had proven anything in the past he would get a pass.

So I was just saying that I don't think your analogy to the Heat injury situation was fair because the Heat's coach has proven he could coach a winning team even before they had 3 stars.

To answer your final question I really don't know. We obviously have more talent on the team this year but defensively we regressed from last year, even when we were healthy.

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When he had paul monty had a 46-36 year. The two after that, well, one we know how horrifying the team was, last year it was better but not that much, this year injuries. Spoelstra with wade proved only he could win (43-39, 47-35) and get out straight in the first round every year. Considering then how much riley had a hand in that (because i don't really believe spoelstra worked on his own and during the first times i honestly thought he was more of a proxy to riley, but i could be wrong), i'd say it doesn't prove much. Put spoelstra here the past two seasons and i think it changes more or less nothing.

I think some ppl on here defend Monty to argue for the sake of arguing lol.

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Originally Posted by Kurgan

When he had paul monty had a 46-36 year. The two after that, well, one we know how horrifying the team was, last year it was better but not that much, this year injuries. Spoelstra with wade proved only he could win (43-39, 47-35) and get out straight in the first round every year. Considering then how much riley had a hand in that (because i don't really believe spoelstra worked on his own and during the first times i honestly thought he was more of a proxy to riley, but i could be wrong), i'd say it doesn't prove much. Put spoelstra here the past two seasons and i think it changes more or less nothing.

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Byron Scott went 56-26 with those guys. Just saying

Edit: I know rosters weren't exactly the same but I'd argue Monty had the better roster to work.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

I think some ppl on here defend Monty to argue for the sake arguing lol.

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I'm not arguing FOR Monty. I've said time and time again, if there's a better option go out there and get him. But don't blindly fire to fire.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

I'm not arguing FOR Monty. I've said time and time again, if there's a better option go out there and get him. But don't blindly fire to fire.

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I wasn't referring to u lol. I don't think firing Monty right now is the way to go anyways. I'd def like a fresh start next year tho.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

Byron Scott went 56-26 with those guys. Just saying

Edit: I know rosters weren't exactly the same but I'd argue Monty had the better roster to work.

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and he had the worst record during our CP3 playoff run here.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

How is going to an all star game bigger than the team's accomplishments? The NBA gets around 4 off days, it's not like him being there is going to affect the Pelicans in any way. The team this year is a huge disappointment, why wouldn't a coach want to do everything they could to get their star player some recognition he deserves (not to mention the experience of being around the best in the league). It's the fact that he wouldn't even try to help is the issue.

If Monty isn't going to have his player's back why would they have his? No one knows ADs feelings but what if this really meant a lot to him? It's a shame his coach wouldn't do anything.

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I just don't think a Coach is going to sway the tide, and it's pathetic to go begging to be in the ASG or to have one of your players be in the ASG. I think he gets pick anyway because it's in New Orleans.

you guys need to make it official..
http://www.pelicansreport.com/showth...-Thread/page32