Gordon is NOT to blame for Jrue's stuggles

I don't like that comparison at all. It's arguable that Jimmy Graham is the best in his respected league at his position, at worst #2. Can the same be said of Ryno? And this is coming from an Anderson fan, I know how good he is.

I understand the point of how 1 player's absence can effect a defense but in a sport where you get 82 games to show how good you are, shouldn't the coach be held accountable for making adjustments?

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Originally Posted by durun

MM it is what you don't report that questions your credibility. You never mentioned that Evans scoring efficiency is 33% while playing with Holiday.
Evans scoring efficiency is slightly higher with Gordon. Yes, Evans improves with Gordon. But what it actually shows is that the total best scoring efficiency combination is EG and JH. Holiday/Gordon combo is best according to scoring efficiency combo.

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So, I should write every stat ever?

Again, the argument was between people who were looking at Jrue's effectiveness with Gordon vs. without. I posted the findings on that one issue. If you would like me to answer another topic, go ahead and ask and I will try to address that. The piece was titled "Jrue can not play with Gordon." Not Gordon is bad and Reke is good, for clarification.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

3-9 w/o Ryno.

12-10 with him (and several of those games were w/o AD and Tyreke)

Somebody saying Ryno is a "role player" and comparing them to Mike Miller is one of the most insane things I have read in a long time.

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Ryno is a role player. I understand the love Ryno gets but lets be real, in the big scheme of things, he's not as good as a lot of Pelicans Report posters make him out to be. The same points that Ryno gets, Gordon or Jrue could get that nightly as well if that was the game plan. I get it, Ryno spaces the floor but spare me that Ryno isn't a role player spiel. He's a role player that Monty is trying to build his offense around and to me that's an epic failure. The record is what the record is but the Pels aren't marginally better/worse with/without Ryno. Monty has a bunch of young guns in the stable and instead of turning them loose, he's playing an offensive style that causes them not to play to their strengths. Monty wants to run these anemic half court sets. The style of play that the Pels play is perfect for Ryno's skill set but not as perfect for the other guys.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

I don't like that comparison at all. It's arguable that Jimmy Graham is the best in his respected league at his position, at worst #2. Can the same be said of Ryno? And this is coming from an Anderson fan, I know how good he is.

I understand the point of how 1 player's absence can effect a defense but in a sport where you get 82 games to show how good you are, shouldn't the coach be held accountable for making adjustments?

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So, what would you do with this roster? Because I do coach for a living, and I honestly would run in my office and hide if you told me that this were the cards I was dealt.

Maybe there is an answer, but I can't figure it out. At least, I could not figure out an offense that will be as good as this defense is bad.

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Originally Posted by UptownFuz504

Ryno is a role player. I understand the love Ryno gets but lets be real, in the big scheme of things, he's not as good as a lot of Pelicans Report posters make him out to be. The same points that Ryno gets, Gordon or Jrue could get that nightly as well if that was the game plan. I get it, Ryno spaces the floor but spare me that Ryno isn't a role player spiel. He's a role player that Monty is trying to build his offense around and to me that's an epic failure. The record is what the record is but the Pels aren't marginally better/worse with/without Ryno. Monty has a bunch of young guns in the stable and instead of turning them loose, he's playing an offensive style that causes them not to play to their strengths. Monty wants to run these anemic half court sets. The style of play that the Pels play is perfect for Ryno's skill set but not as perfect for the other guys.

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So, he is trying to build his offense around a guy he brings off the bench?

Ok.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

So, he is trying to build his offense around a guy he brings off the bench?

Ok.

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Maybe that was the wrong choice of words but his personnel doesn't match what he wants to do offensively. Ryno is the one person IMO that fits the system. You said that you'd hide in your office if this was your team. I say, with this team as constituted, D'Antoni's offensive style would be the way to go. Mix in a defensive scheme that works for the personnel and you'd at least be competitive.

thing the past few games has made it very clear spacing is the issue. has nothing to do with gordon

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Originally Posted by AD23nEG10

thing the past few games has made it very clear spacing is the issue. has nothing to do with gordon

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I agree with this. There needs to be more movement with the offense. Good things happen when they move the ball.

No ONE person is the problem. The argument from me, always was that this team would be better with the Core Four and 15 million dollars of role players than it would be with those 4 and Gordon. If people have arguments against THAT (not an exaggeration of my argument) then I would love to see some evidence and have some great debate.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

So, what would you do with this roster? Because I do coach for a living, and I honestly would run in my office and hide if you told me that this were the cards I was dealt.

Maybe there is an answer, but I can't figure it out. At least, I could not figure out an offense that will be as good as this defense is bad.

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Anthony Davis, Jrue Holiday, Tyreke Evans, Eric Gordon those are your current active players and you run and hide? :idoh:

The talent on this team was assembled in a way that if 1 person goes down it shouldn't be the hole in the ship. Obviously offensively Morrow needs to play more as the highest 3pt% shooter on the team. But defensively we did not get worse. I'm not a coach so I can't tell you what needs to be done I am just an observer, but it's starting to get notice from outside the organization (see wizards writer) that maybe this is a coaching issue. I can't understand people that say (not you) Demps needs to go or this is his fault, he has provided Monty Williams with the recipe - talented players. It's Monty's job to cook.

We had this discussion just last week, right now who can you really blame 30 games in with the injuries we have? Time time time we need time. Right now nothing can or should be done, but a good coach should be able to prove something by the end of the season. If not I think it's time we make a coaching change and a few roster changes - not as much turnover as last off-season.

The numbers show Gordon and Holiday as a combo would score more than Holiday and Evans. Though JH scores more with TE the TEAM would be less efficient. So does MM want the Pels to be less scoring efficient or does he want stats for Holiday

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Originally Posted by durun

The numbers show Gordon and Holiday as a combo would score more than Holiday and Evans. Though JH scores more with TE the TEAM would be less efficient. So does MM want the Pels to be less scoring efficient or does he want stats for Holiday

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As I pointed out in that piece, which I am not sure you read, the Pelicans as a whole are better with Gordon off than on. Again, another fact. I have no agenda. Just report the facts. Do you have any to educate us with? I love debate. Lay them on us!

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Anthony Davis, Jrue Holiday, Tyreke Evans, Eric Gordon those are your current active players and you run and hide? :idoh:

The talent on this team was assembled in a way that if 1 person goes down it shouldn't be the hole in the ship. Obviously offensively Morrow needs to play more as the highest 3pt% shooter on the team. But defensively we did not get worse. I'm not a coach so I can't tell you what needs to be done I am just an observer, but it's starting to get notice from outside the organization (see wizards writer) that maybe this is a coaching issue. I can't understand people that say (not you) Demps needs to go or this is his fault, he has provided Monty Williams with the recipe - talented players. It's Monty's job to cook.

We had this discussion just last week, right now who can you really blame 30 games in with the injuries we have? Time time time we need time. Right now nothing can or should be done, but a good coach should be able to prove something by the end of the season. If not I think it's time we make a coaching change and a few roster changes - not as much turnover as last off-season.

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If I am playing against other NBA teams, with the best players in the world, that is not close to enough to win half of my games. I have nobody who can truly space the floor, nobody who can do something as basic as drive the ball to the basket and actually slam it down. Unles I play those 4 all 48 minutes of the game, I am going to have black holes next to whichever good player is on the court, and I have no shot at having a top 15 defense.

If I were building a football team and had Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, AJ Green, and Josh Gordon, I would technically have a very talented football team, but that team would not win with bad parts around it. Overlapping pieces, no presence in the middle, and nobody who has really ever won anything on this level.

Every team has "black holes" on them not every single player on every single roster is supposed to be flawless. We are just going to have to say that we disagree and we will revisit this in the summer.

Also your football analogies are aren't close at all to representing what you are trying to say. If this team had CP3, Holiday, Gordon and Wade you would be spot on, but the 4 players I mentioned are actually very different. The only 2 that are remotely close is Gordon and Evans, but even then offensively they go about their play differently.

So, for a player not to be a black hole, he has to be "flawless"

So hard to debate intelligently on here with fallacies being thrown around left and right. Debate your opponents actual words, not an exaggeration of them.

Stiemsma and Ajinca are black holes on offense. A team does not even have to defend them. A guy like Thabo Sefolosha or Corey Brewer have plenty of flaws in their game, but they at least have to be accounted for.

Teams simply pack the paint now, almost always have two guys they dont even bother to defend, and love it when Jason Smith takes his mid-range shot. I could come up with a system that would make this team average on offense, maybe. But that won't be enough to counteract how bad the D will be.

I thought the defensive rotations were starting to look better but they were again horrible last night...we need to make an improvement on that end to have any chance to win "some" games

So, then say I exaggerated the fact that they are black holes and show why. THAT is legit debate. But changing your opponents argument is not. I think that is pretty simple, no?

Debate your opponents actual words, not an exaggeration of them >>>>> Calling someone a black hole is definitely an exaggeration. And then you quickly jump to well Stiemsma and Ajinca are black holes on offense. But before it was "I am going to have black holes next to whichever good player is on the court". Obviously those guys struggle offensively but have shown some sign of hopes on the other side of the ball and in other areas: for example I was very worried about Ajinca's rebounding when we signed him.

You are right about one thing though, it is very hard to have an intelligent debate on here; especially when people think they are not wrong, about anything, ever.


Also, I didn't say that you made it seem like every other bench player had to be flawless, but it did seem like every other bench player besides us is solid and doesn't have inefficiencies that can't be exploited. So we have the worst bench, I'm asking? I meant to edit this post not delete btw sorry.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

So, then say I exaggerated the fact that they are black holes and show why. THAT is legit debate. But changing your opponents argument is not. I think that is pretty simple, no?

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You showed nothing as to why......

That's how you debate! Much better. You are right, I did not show why. Just made a statement without proof.

I will come back when I have some


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That BBS article had a ghost writer given your comments
For example the blog concluded that a certain combo was fantastic and Holiday was being handcuffed by playing with EG. In the comments someone noted that he could not find one stat that proved EG made any player or the TEAM better. Maybe I should cancel my GEICO policy because 35 is not better or bigger than 33 according to your analysis.

I agree no stats are flawless but conclusions should be forthright.

Enough and I have expressed my last comments about your stats.