Pelicans picking for need?

So how would the draft board look like ?

1. Burke
2.Porter
3.Gobert
4.Oladipo

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Originally Posted by Mido-Peja

Here is a question for you guys. We all almost agree that our biggest needs re PG and SF. Given that we have two major ways to fill those needs, either via our lottery pick or using our cap space. I'm leaving out any trade possibilities because they are not guaranteed. So, the Q is:

Which of the following options would you prefer:
1- (Drafting Burke and signing a SF such as AK47 (if opted out) or Corey Brewer)
2- (Drafting a SF "Porter or Bazz" and signing a PG "Jennings")

Personally, my ideal situation would be to sign Jennings and draft Porter. But in all likelihood, he would be gone when we draft. I would still pick Bazz and sign Jennings.

Jennings /GV (assuming not traded)/Roberts
EG / Rivers/ serviceable sg
Aminu/Bazz / Miller
AD / Ryno/ serviceable pf
Lopez/ Smith/ another big body

Your opinions?

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The draft will dictate who we will go after in free agency. Let's say Porter is gone and we take Buke, we'd obviously try to find a SF in free agency or vice-versa. It's really hard to predict what we're going to do until the draft happens. Then, we'd know what direction to go. Hard to plan for free agency before the draft especially when the draft plays such a big role on what happens in free agency.

I know a lot of people are on Burke's train but we already have a PG with higher upside on our team. Everyone is acting like PG has to be an immediate fix. Why? We aren't going anywhere next year for sure and most likely for two years. Why wouldn't we take a player with higher upside than Burke? People trying to "fix" PG are falling into the trap of going after need while everyone says BPA.

Do I think Burke is a better point than Rivers now? Yes. In two years? I dunno about that. I simply see Burke with a higher floor. I'd rather draft quite a few guys ahead of Burke.

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Originally Posted by Blackout

So how would the draft board look like ?

1. Burke
2.Porter
3.Gobert
4.Oladipo

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1. Porter
2. McLemore
3. Oladipo
4. Noel
5. Burke

porter
burke
mclemore
oladipo
noel

My picks are:

Burke
McCollum
Len
Zeller
Dieng

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Originally Posted by durun

My picks are:

Burke
McCollum
Len
Zeller
Dieng

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drinking this early is bad for you.

Zeller was doubled a lot at IU which created spacing for Oladipo. Zeller is really underrated and I am not surprised at his agility and speed displayed at the combine. Zeller has a very good midrange game. Like AD, his negative is strength and that is why he may be more suitable to play as a power forward.

I am a bigger fan of Burke and McCollum and if the Pels move back in the late teens then Dieng of Louisville. Dieng would be a great fit for the Pelicans.

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Originally Posted by durun

Zeller was doubled a lot at IU which created spacing for Oladipo. Zeller is really underrated and I am not surprised at his agility and speed displayed at the combine. Zeller has a very good midrange game. Like AD, his negative is strength and that is why he may be more suitable to play as a power forward.

I am a bigger fan of Burke and McCollum and if the Pels move back in the late teens then Dieng of Louisville. Dieng would be a great fit for the Pelicans.

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I agree, zeller's best fit is at PF, he could have a similar impact as lamarcus alridge.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I know a lot of people are on Burke's train but we already have a PG with higher upside on our team. Everyone is acting like PG has to be an immediate fix. Why? We aren't going anywhere next year for sure and most likely for two years. Why wouldn't we take a player with higher upside than Burke? People trying to "fix" PG are falling into the trap of going after need while everyone says BPA.

Do I think Burke is a better point than Rivers now? Yes. In two years? I dunno about that. I simply see Burke with a higher floor. I'd rather draft quite a few guys ahead of Burke.

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The right PG can jump start a rebuild unlike any other position. The reason for that is the right PG makes everybody jobs easier. I don't see Rivers ceiling being more than a 6th man of the year. Trey is the most complete PG out of college that I've seen since Chris Paul. If that's a low ceiling than I'd gladly like for this team to be midgets. He does things already that even some of the most seasoned PG's don't do. The way he paces and controls the game on offense is again CP3 like. He more than athletic enough when you add his tangible skills with his intangible skills I think the kid is a star maybe even superstar. Just my opinion of course.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

The right PG can jump start a rebuild unlike any other position. The reason for that is the right PG makes everybody jobs easier. I don't see Rivers ceiling being more than a 6th man of the year. Trey is the most complete PG out of college that I've seen since Chris Paul. If that's a low ceiling than I'd gladly like for this team to be midgets. He does things already that even some of the most seasoned PG's don't do. The way he paces and controls the game on offense is again CP3 like. He more than athletic enough when you add his tangible skills with his intangible skills I think the kid is a star maybe even superstar. Just my opinion of course.

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agreed, a PG can improve ur team quicker than any position because he can make everyone better. Also I was thinking if u have burke at the 1 and gordon at the 2 and they both get 33 minutes a game, that leaves 30 minutes between backup PG and backup SG avilable, is it possible for rivers to get all of those minutes or no because the time frame? They could take either the PG or SG out early to get rivers in the rotation quicker so it is possible I think. Think they will do the same with ad, lopez and ryno

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I agree, zeller's best fit is at PF, he could have a similar impact as lamarcus alridge.

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I like that comparison to LA. I like Zeller as a prospect as well. Much better than Oladipo IMO.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

I like that comparison to LA. I like Zeller as a prospect as well. Much better than Oladipo IMO.

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ya they are both big, can shoot, have a post game, better suited for the 4.

I like it, still think we need to upgrade the center position and get a more athletic/shot blocking beast to pair with AD

I was not drinking this morning but rather I was being enlightened at Tulane's graduation. BTW he did not wear his Pelicans gear.

I like players that can create and have handles. Mclemore, VO and Porter lack handles and can not shoot off the dribble. A handle is so important but is lacking by some many NBA players like AFA. With a handle you can create off the dribble, split doubles, add spacing for your shoot and make your teammate better.

The lack of a handle reduces the speed and agility of players. It is the difference between a role player and a fringe allstar player. It is an underated basketball skill. That is why I am a big fan of EG. Gordon has a handle and can create. You should read Darrell Williams article on May 15th in the Advocate. The article is about Brian Roberts' first pitch at a Zephyrs game. Jason Smith's comments may enlighten. Burke and McCollum both have great handles.

The Wildcats center is too light and has minimal offensive skills. I pass.

Porter
Oladipo
McLemore
Noel
Burke
Gobert

(not drinking, but hung over :sikinbed: )

Draft class looks mighty weak IMO. If we can't improve the 3 in this draft the only alternative I see to improving the 3 is to trade for Danny Granger.

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Originally Posted by MMEmbreno

I like it, still think we need to upgrade the center position and get a more athletic/shot blocking beast to pair with AD

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I agree with this too. Until Davis becomes strong enough to anchor the center, we need another guy to fill that role. Lopez doesn't do it.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

agreed, a PG can improve ur team quicker than any position because he can make everyone better. Also I was thinking if u have burke at the 1 and gordon at the 2 and they both get 33 minutes a game, that leaves 30 minutes between backup PG and backup SG avilable, is it possible for rivers to get all of those minutes or no because the time frame? They could take either the PG or SG out early to get rivers in the rotation quicker so it is possible I think. Think they will do the same with ad, lopez and ryno

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Your starting backcourt should average no less than 35 mins and that's being conservative. I'd like to think the sweet spot is about 37 a piece.

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Originally Posted by Mido-Peja

Here is a question for you guys. We all almost agree that our biggest needs re PG and SF. Given that we have two major ways to fill those needs, either via our lottery pick or using our cap space. I'm leaving out any trade possibilities because they are not guaranteed. So, the Q is:

Which of the following options would you prefer:
1- (Drafting Burke and signing a SF such as AK47 (if opted out) or Corey Brewer)
2- (Drafting a SF "Porter or Bazz" and signing a PG "Jennings")

Personally, my ideal situation would be to sign Jennings and draft Porter. But in all likelihood, he would be gone when we draft. I would still pick Bazz and sign Jennings.

.
Jennings /GV (assuming not traded)/Roberts
EG / Rivers/ serviceable sg
Aminu/Bazz / Miller
AD / Ryno/ serviceable pf
Lopez/ Smith/ another big body

Your opinions?

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#2 option is much better and it's not even close. IMO. Love drafting Burke in option 1 but don't want either of those guys to be our sf. Honestly I wouldn't take either of them over aminu at this point. I still have faith in aminu on this team. Whether that be as starter or backup. He has really Improved under monty

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

agreed, a PG can improve ur team quicker than any position because he can make everyone better. Also I was thinking if u have burke at the 1 and gordon at the 2 and they both get 33 minutes a game, that leaves 30 minutes between backup PG and backup SG avilable, is it possible for rivers to get all of those minutes or no because the time frame? They could take either the PG or SG out early to get rivers in the rotation quicker so it is possible I think. Think they will do the same with ad, lopez and ryno

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Agree with all this except I'd like to see them guys getting atleast 38 min per game.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

Agree with all this except I'd like to see them guys getting atleast 38 min per game.

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I think that's too much. Damian Lillard lead the league in minutes played and he "only" averaged 38.6.

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Originally Posted by Basketball Nate

Draft class looks mighty weak IMO. If we can't improve the 3 in this draft the only alternative I see to improving the 3 is to trade for Danny Granger.

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Why would we trade for a hurt aging 3

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

The right PG can jump start a rebuild unlike any other position. The reason for that is the right PG makes everybody jobs easier. I don't see Rivers ceiling being more than a 6th man of the year. Trey is the most complete PG out of college that I've seen since Chris Paul. If that's a low ceiling than I'd gladly like for this team to be midgets. He does things already that even some of the most seasoned PG's don't do. The way he paces and controls the game on offense is again CP3 like. He more than athletic enough when you add his tangible skills with his intangible skills I think the kid is a star maybe even superstar. Just my opinion of course.

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I don't disagree with what you're saying however what are you basing Rivers upside on? A lackluster year where all preseason he was asked to play point and less than a week before the start of the season he was moved to STARTING SG? I'm just curious because even watching him play all season I think with the improvements he made he was starting to get it. He was known to be a multi year project and he got a bad deal the first season of it. And was put in an impossible situation but survived it. Talentwise I don't think it's even close who's ceiling is higher. If Rivers hits his he's Tony Parker.

Now I think it's more risk, yes. But I also think given his drive and work ethic that the only think stopping him from being a great PG for us is an injury. Burke feels more sure bet to knowing his ceiling because I don't think he's going to have a huge jump. Which is both good and bad. I wouldn't be upset with the Burke pick, it i just see other people with higher upsides. Heck after Zeller's combine I think he has a higher ceiling than Burke.

I've evaluated the advanced statistical metrics per age of Porter, Noel, Burke, Mclemore, and Shabazz. I looked at offensive/defensive rating difference, and win shares per 48 minutes by age. So far this is how they measure out:

1. Noel - (age 18) 31, 0.250
2. Porter - (age 18/19) 30.9/38.3, 0.240/0.315
3. Burke - (age 19/20) 5.1/24.3, 0.172/0.303
4. McLemore - (age 19/20), 28.1, 0.262
5. Shabazz - (20/21), 5.6, 0.185

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

I've evaluated the advanced statistical metrics per age of Porter, Noel, Burke, Mclemore, and Shabazz. I looked at offensive/defensive rating difference, and win shares per 48 minutes by age. So far this is how they measure out:

1. Noel - (age 18) 31, 0.250
2. Porter - (age 18/19) 30.9/38.3, 0.240/0.315
3. Burke - (age 19/20) 5.1/24.3, 0.172/0.303
4. McLemore - (age 19/20), 28.1, 0.262
5. Shabazz - (20/21), 5.6, 0.185

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Great stuff man. Could you add Zeller and Bennett into that mix please?

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Originally Posted by nolaslim213

Great stuff man. Could you add Zeller and Bennett into that mix please?

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Working on it bro. I just did Oladipo. He measure slightly above Burke and below Noel and Porter. Zeller and Bennett are gonna be in the top of the list after they're added.

Noel - (age 18) 31, 0.250
Porter - (age 18/19) 30.9/38.3, 0.240/0.315
Oladipo – (age 18/19/20), 9.4/13/38.6, 0.175/0.194/.320
Burke - (age 19/20) 5.1/24.3, 0.172/0.303
McLemore - (age 19/20), 28.1, 0.262
Shabazz - (20/21), 5.6, 0.185

Here's a new thread I created for it as I update the list

http://www.pelicansreport.com/showth...04#post1080704

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Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

This screams PG or SF.

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Yeeeeeep. Thought Porter will likely be gone when we pick.

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Originally Posted by Basketball Nate

Draft class looks mighty weak IMO. If we can't improve the 3 in this draft the only alternative I see to improving the 3 is to trade for Danny Granger.

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Huh? There are plenty of FA 3's out there this year that could helps us if we don't take Porter. Webster Brewer Montell Buds etc etc

Webster was really good for Washington last season.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans_fan_504

Why would we trade for a hurt aging 3

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He's a proven player that's better than the rest of the other options out on the market.

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Originally Posted by Purple Haze

Huh? There are plenty of FA 3's out there this year that could helps us if we don't take Porter. Webster Brewer Montell Buds etc etc

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You just listed 3 average free agent journeymen players and counting.

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Originally Posted by Basketball Nate

You just listed 3 average free agent journeymen players and counting.

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Giving up assets for granger isnt really a good idea either... We should just sign a FA SF (probably not long term) if we dont land one in the draft. Next year the draft is loaded at SF, so a FA would be a nice stpgap.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

#2 option is much better and it's not even close. IMO. Love drafting Burke in option 1 but don't want either of those guys to be our sf. Honestly I wouldn't take either of them over aminu at this point. I still have faith in aminu on this team. Whether that be as starter or backup. He has really Improved under monty

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I definitely like Aminu especially as a defender and a rebounder. Thus, if it was Porter, I would draft him and move Aminu to the bench. If Porter is gone, I would draft Shabazz and keep him on the bench to replace Aminu and be a scorer for the 2nd unit.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

Giving up assets for granger isnt really a good idea either... We should just sign a FA SF (probably not long term) if we dont land one in the draft. Next year the draft is loaded at SF, so a FA would be a nice stpgap.

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Maybe it was just me but listening to Mickey Loomis at that press conference a few weeks ago. It didn't sound like he wanted to be part of picking early in the lottery again. I don't think upper management has the patience for this all youth movement option that's not producing any wins.

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Originally Posted by Basketball Nate

Maybe it was just me but listening to Mickey Loomis at that press conference a few weeks ago. It didn't sound like he wanted to be part of picking early in the lottery again. I don't think upper management has the patience for this all youth movement option that's not producing any wins.

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I gotcha. I just dont think Granger is the right option. Its unfortunate that the FA class is this weak. I do agree that management probably wants to win soon.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

Giving up assets for granger isnt really a good idea either... We should just sign a FA SF (probably not long term) if we dont land one in the draft. Next year the draft is loaded at SF, so a FA would be a nice stpgap.

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Yeah I think so too. I would look to build an inside-outside game first as my foundation. We have our franchise big man, and now we can get our franchise point guard in Burke if possible then look for a stop gap SF til next draft. If Burke isn't there, then you could go Potter or Bazz to get a nice SF. We are not in win now mode. We got to many young guys to expect to be championship and somewhat play off contenders. Even Monty, Dell, and Loomis said it's a three year process, and they are not even into year two.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

I gotcha. I just dont think Granger is the right option. Its unfortunate that the FA class is this weak. I do agree that management probably wants to win soon.

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Granger is not the answer at sf. Ppl on here already have a b#%*= fit about Gordon. He is Gordon times 10 as far as knees being damaged. Unless he wants to sign a 1 year NON guaranteed 3m contract. Which he won't so it's def a no go lol. If we can't get porter or shabazz to plug in at the 3 in this draft. Like you said. We just need a serviceable stop gap guy for 1 year. Next years draft class is going to be so dam loaded at the sf position. I really like that randle kid.

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Originally Posted by Topdawg26

Yeah I think so too. I would look to build an inside-outside game first as my foundation. We have our franchise big man, and now we can get our franchise point guard in Burke if possible then look for a stop gap SF til next draft. If Burke isn't there, then you could go Potter or Bazz to get a nice SF. We are not in win now mode. We got to many young guys to expect to be championship and somewhat play off contenders. Even Monty, Dell, and Loomis said it's a three year process, and they are not even into year two.

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Very well put sir.

For those who keep trying to bring the OKC model here, I believe they lose to Memphis with Westbrook. Memphis has been growing steadily into a yearly challenger and they did it with FAs and draft picks. I think we fit more into the Memphis model but there is no one size fits all formula either.

I am quite positive this front office believes New Orleans can attract some big name free agents and they will try to do so either this summer or next. This should be the final year of the lottery pick/tank crap.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

For those who keep trying to bring the OKC model here, I believe they lose to Memphis with Westbrook. Memphis has been growing steadily into a yearly challenger and they did it with FAs and draft picks. I think we fit more into the Memphis model but there is no one size fits all formula either.

I am quite positive this front office believes New Orleans can attract some big name free agents and they will try to do so either this summer or next. This should be the final year of the lottery pick/tank crap.

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Actually OKC wasn't the first to use this model, it was the spurs (who Monty and Dell are a product of). The got their franchise pieces in Duncan, Manu, and Parker from the draft. I think we can get a great player in FA, but the Pelicans are in no way in win now mode. If you listen to all interviews from Pelican personnel they all say the same thing. They are in rebuilding mode, and it's a three year plan (starting last year). We got our franchise big man in AD and hopefully our franchise guard in Burke. Throw them in with key pieces like Rivers, Anderson, Lopez, Gordon (if they aren't fed up with him), GV and hopefully a big time wing in the draft next year then we have a contender in 3 years.

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Originally Posted by Basketball Nate

He's a proven player that's better than the rest of the other options out on the market.



You just listed 3 average free agent journeymen players and counting.

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And how would that not help us again? Also I don't really count 26 year olds as journeymen...

This team has already proven to be building outside of the draft as well. Anderson and Gordon are examples of that. They weren't signed for a long rebuild.

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Originally Posted by Purple Haze

Huh? There are plenty of FA 3's out there this year that could helps us if we don't take Porter. Webster Brewer Montell Buds etc etc

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Who is Montell?

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Originally Posted by Topdawg26

Actually OKC wasn't the first to use this model, it was the spurs (who Monty and Dell are a product of). The got their franchise pieces in Duncan, Manu, and Parker from the draft. I think we can get a great player in FA, but the Pelicans are in no way in win now mode. If you listen to all interviews from Pelican personnel they all say the same thing. They are in rebuilding mode, and it's a three year plan (starting last year). We got our franchise big man in AD and hopefully our franchise guard in Burke. Throw them in with key pieces like Rivers, Anderson, Lopez, Gordon (if they aren't fed up with him), GV and hopefully a big time wing in the draft next year then we have a contender in 3 years.

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http://www.3sob.com/may-2013/the-gre...-history/7943/

This article shows the Memphis "model". It takes alot of luck, and I think we've got that on our side already

I'm not to sure Dell and Co. will go with luck.

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Originally Posted by Purple Haze

And how would that not help us again? Also I don't really count 26 year olds as journeymen...

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None of those guys you mentioned are better players than Granger. Neither of them are much better than Al Aminu.

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Originally Posted by Basketball Nate

None of those guys you mentioned are better players than Granger. Neither of them are much better than Al Aminu.

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Granger's contract just isn't worth it. He's not the same player he was before the contract. He's basically become a guy settling for outside jumpers and now he has a bad knee. Taking on his contract would be doing the Pacers a huge favor. He will help with a few wins, but won't be a great impact or a great piece long-term. Doesn't fit the core age group of the team either.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

Granger's contract just isn't worth it. He's not the same player he was before the contract. He's basically become a guy settling for outside jumpers and now he has a bad knee. Taking on his contract would be doing the Pacers a huge favor. He will help with a few wins, but won't be a great impact or a great piece long-term. Doesn't fit the core age group of the team either.

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How can an expiring contract become a liability to a team already with PLENTY of cap room?