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So I have still not seen anyone ask DaThrone this, and I am curious myself:
2.5 games is not a good sample size. Actually 2.5 games plus a college season in which, as a Freshman he won Player of the Year and would have been the All-Time blocks leader at over 45 Division I schools despite only playing one season, but whatever. Minor details.
So, if that is not enough, I just gotta know what is? How many games until we have an amount you are happy with the amount of data. Because once we reach whatever threshold you determine is proper, we can stop trying to convince the only person on the planet who doesn't believe. I want that date and I want to create a countdown to that date on this site. Give it to us!!
Who were prospects 1-6???
Stop feeding the troll, guys.
Trolls aren't always bad. They reinforce our opinions, make conversation, and bring us together against said troll. If you don't like it, ignore it.
Although Da Throne has taken this to a whole new level.
He's just kicking the can to delay when he has to recant, but you brought up in a podcast recently how great Jason Smith looked for the Hornets until he made team scouting reports. Davis is showing things people didn't expect of him. NBA coaches are probably surprised too. If he's having regular, effortless 20+ point nights in January when teams have had time to diagnose him then it's safe to say that what we're seeing is real and exciting.
Aesthetically, I feel like the David Robinson comparison that McNamara put forward is really close. Looking at Robinson as a college player, it isn't far off. Both guys rely on athleticism and instincts to score, both guys are better facing guys up and finishing off cuts than posting up, and there's a second jump ability that both guys have to their game. I don't think they're that similar defensively. I can't think of any player I've seen who surprises players with his length more than Davis. He's not as manic as KG, not as big or fundamentally sound as Duncan, more active than Robinson. I guess he plays like Olajuwon, but I don't think he'll be quite as active in passing lanes. I do feel, based on his college season, he'll fit among that class of player if he dedicates himself and adds to his game.
Incidentally, I don't feel strongly about Davis needing to add a ton of weight after watching the best big men of the last 25 years. Those dudes were rail thin well into their career with the exceptions of Shaq and Duncan. And Howard, if you want to put him in that tier.
Davis doesn't need to force additional weight as he has been fairing well up to date as is. His body has yet to mature and he will be bigger naturally once his frame fills out. What he does need to add is strength. David Robinson type of strength/physique would be ideal for him.
Davis is nowhere near the the player he'll be in his prime. It's very hard to imagine what he'll become at this stage. Even if it resembles certain players right now, it will change as he evolves and grow. I think his absolute floor is a guy who relies on athleticism, coordination, and raw talent to score ala Dwight/Blake. I think his ceiling will involve a lot of skill and polish. When you get a combination of the two plus his IQ and feel for the same, I'm confident there will be no comparison. He'll be the one and only Anthony Davis.
It's too soon, but I hope he gets a rookie of the month, to start.
Drummond has been good as well so far coming off the bench.
The thing with Drummond though is, he's incredibly inconsistent.
It's shocking that 2.5 games are the standard time for greatestness. Harden was averaging 42 ppg in 2 games this season. Can't put an exact # on the amount of games but I can tell you 2.5 aren't nearly enough. I mentioned Lin and his run and basic stats said it was one of the greatest 1st X amount in the history of the association. If/when I see Davis consistently create and open things up for other players based on his offense i'll feel more comfortable able labling him a star. When I see him do it while being the focal point of the defense I'll feel confortable about him being a superstar.
As far as his college career the pro game and collegiate game have enough significant differences to know success at one level isn't 100% transferable to the next. I could name guys like Thabeet, Hansborugh, Beasley, Ferdette, B. Bass, E. Turner etc that all played at a high level in college but it didn't carry over. Those guys where all in contention for the Wooden Award.
Like how you made the classic "gang mentality" comment, then proceeded to make my point for me. That was really interesting to see.
While I have nothing to prove. MM can tell you that i've been on the Hornets247 with opinions well before and/or completely non-related to Davis. The idea that I'm here just to "stoke the fire" is completely off base.
I think if you just admitted that you were wrong (because you clearly were) all this would go away.
All what goes away?
I'll admit I'm wrong when I'm proven wrong. I've said there's aspects of his game that I was wrong about. I call it like I see it. 2.5 games just isn't enough to make a full evalution of a player. If this makes me the "crazy troll" than so be it.
Here in lies the problem, you HAVE been proven wrong. You were wrong from the jump, your "evaluation" of Davis was an epic failure, but your pride (or something else) won't let you admit it.
The way you see it must be blinded by foggy glasses or something, because everyone sees it but you.
I do agree with him about harden though. Everyone was {Mod Edit-It's a family site.} and saying he was an MVP candidate after only 2 games.
Wrong about what? His inability to create for himself? 95%+ of his points are assisted or put back baskets. His poor post and primeter defense? Both those things have been shaky. I was wrong about his hook it's much nicer than what I saw at Kentucky.
So what can you point to after 2.5 games and say I was wrong about? Are you saying he's a franchise changer after 2.5 games?
68.4% of his baskets are assisted on. For a rookie that is fabulous.
The list of guys that get more help with assists are:
Antawn Jamison
Charlie Villanueva
Terrence Jones
Troy Murphy
Kevin Garnett
Jared Sullinger
Taj Gibson
Tiago Splitter
Lamar Odom
Serge Ibaka
Elton Brand
Jason Smith
Brandon Bass
Gustavo Ayon
Rasheed Wallace
Thomas Robinson
Ryan Anderson
Tim Duncan
Al Horford
David Lee
Patrick Patterson
Blake Griffin
Tyler Hansbrough
DeJuan Blair
Chris Bosh
Emeka Okafor
Meyers Leonard
Byron Mullens
Marc Gasol
Samuel Dalembert
That's just a small list of the guys that get more help than Davis, there are 43 PF's that get more help, but I even through in a few C's in that list above, and again we are talking about a rookie.
As for his defense in the post, he's allowing just 0.83 points per play, shooting 40%, and scoring 33% of the time while turning it over 17% of the time. For comparisons sake KG is averaging 1.0 ppp, allowing 64%, and scoring 50% of the time. Al Horford is at 1.04 ppp, allowing 55%, and scoring 50% of the time. Tim Duncan is at 0.87 ppp, allowing 48%, and scoring 44% of the time. Elton Brand is at 1.04 ppp, allowing 67%, and scoring 53% of the time. Do I really need to continue? It may not be Dwight Howard good, but it's just fine, especially for a rook.
But why have say Andre Drummond rated above him, if Drummond is just as bad if not worse at all of those things, as well as an inferior offensive player without Davis' motor or court awareness.
It seems like you judge Davis on different criteria from the other prospects.
And your belief in how he's getting his production is wrong as well.
Besides, when has anyone ever complained about a player that can convert on offensive rebounds?
and? Since when do you ask your PF (your rookie PF) to create for himself?
Just admit it, you WANT him to fail more than anything just so you can say you were right.
But again, Davis is getting 5.3 looks per game at the rim, only three players are getting more (Zach Randolph, David Lee, Glen Davis). That doesn't happen by accident, knowing how to operate around the rim is a skill. The top 8 players at PF in getting looks at the rim per game are Randolph, Lee, Davis, Brow, Duncan, West, Gasol, and Thompson. Those 8 guys get their baskets assisted on 56%, 47%, 74%, 55%, 71%, 59%, 42%, and 61%. Can you guess which one of those is Davis? I'll let you know which one isn't, the 71%. That 71% of baskets assisted around the bucket is the great and future HOF Tim Duncan. Are you going to try and take something away from him?
I don't know if you're just a troll, your expectations are to high, or if you're knowledge of the game is really just this low. Honestly after your "running the offense through him" comment I'm wondering what your comprehension level is like now as well. Who said anything about running the offense through him? And how many times is a rookie the guy the offense runs through?
When have I ever said he's going to fail??????
It's impossible to have an intelligent debate when you guys add things to the agrument that I never ever said. I say Davis isn't a franchise changer you hear he's a bust. I say he's number 7 in a draft I believe will be looked upon as probably the deepest ever and you read I want him to fail.
He's a good player. I already spoke about his touch around the basket and offensive putbacks are huge. However crowning the dude as an all-time great after 2.5 games is laughable to say the least. Some of you are so butt hurt over any differing opinion you've created a stance to attack that doesn't even exist.
You said he wouldn't even average 10 points a game as a rookie. Nothing that he's shown, including seven preseason games where he averaged 15 & 10, suggests he'll be anywhere near that low this season.
It's pretty clear that you don't even want to be wrong. You want him to bust so you can tell everyone you were right about him. That's sad considering that you call yourself a Hornets fan.
Anthony Davis is not another Serge Ibaka.
To me it's madness that you see that same "base" in Drummond and not in Davis, particularly when considering it's a far less refined "base".
What skills do you see in Drummond that are superior to the skills you see in Davis; it can't be ball handling, it can't be his jumpshot, it can't be his offensive awareness, it can't be his post game; even his best "skill", his athleticism, is practically the same as Davis' (he might be a slightly better leaper, and that's only a maybe).
This was before I knew Gordon was going to be out to start the season.
The last 5 games Serge is averaging 17.6 ppg. This is with Westbrook and Durant on the team.
LOL at me not wanting to be wrong. I already said Davis has shown more polish than I saw at Kentucky. And need I remind people the young man has only played 2.5 games.
Drummond is more explosives with his dribble and post moves, is stronger and more phyiscal. He's a better one-on-one post defender. At Kentucky Davis post moves looked awkward and off based. Drummond didn't have that problem. Like I said Davis hook looks so much more smooth now than what I saw, but Drummond is the 6'11 guy I think has much more "guard-like" skills and a ability to face up and explode pass pretty much every 5 and a lot of 4's in the league.
I think your definition of "assisted" is so warped it's hilarious. You seem to imply that assisted means someone completely created a shot for him and all he had to do was dink it into an empty basket like a soccer player in front of an open net. I can think of at least 4 baskets off the top of my head just from the Charlotte game that apparently were considered "assisted" that were 99% Davis. The swooping lefty finger roll, the silky one bounce jump hook over a defender, the baseline jumper off the bounce from about 14 ft, and the driving basket against Mullens after their altercation. If someone got assists off of those baskets then it was Davis inflating their stats and not the other way around.
This is a fair point. I'm not saying every counted assist is an easy shot. However it does mean Davis didn't get himself into scoring position through ball handling or post moves. Which is my knock on him. If/when he starts to show me he can and do so consistently I'll be here saying I was wrong. However my point is (and I don't even know how this is debatable) we can't say with any certainty one way or the other after 2.5 games.