I'll give you that. PG didn't do to OKC fans what Khawi and AD did to theirs. OKC won the deal BECAUSE PG stayed and didn't go to the Lakers in free agency. Khawi is yet to be seen if he will do the same, he could dip out just like Cousins did.
Printable View
Somewhat off topic but in the realm and I do enjoy your opinions fwiw. How much, if at all do you see Boston's playoff run affecting Kyrie and trading for AD. Let's say they get to the finals or even win (unlikely). Does that decrease Bostons willingness to send the farm for AD? Should we be rooting for their early exit or does it not effect leverage at all?
I don't think it impacts anything. Kyrie has already shown that winning a ring with a team doesn't make him anymore likely to stay, and if AD goes to New York then Kyrie is basically out of the door. Winning the finals this year can't allow them to become complacent, because the moment it does, Kyrie is gone, AD is in New York, and they're scraping for the playoffs next season.
That said, I do think that the likelihood of them winning the finals is less than 1%, and the odds of them even getting there is probably like 25% max. They're not as good as Toronto or Milwaukee.
Griffin is definitely being serious about keeping AD, as he should be. If AD is still unhappy a year after he signs the extension, then we have the best trade chip ever in the NBA, an even more valuable trade chip than it is right now. I feel very comfortable with Griffin in charge, now that I've digested everything a little more.
Remember, both Kobe and Olajuwon demanded trades while in their primes, yet both were not traded. Both Kobe and Hakeem went on to win championships afterward. All of the AD drama can be forgiven with a sincere evaluation of what was going on and a sincere commitment to being the best he can be as a Pelican. I'll easily forgive everything that has transpired if he resigns with us. He is still an immature kid in many ways, but he would be our immature kid, one that we can help become a mature adult, as well as a champion. If we trade him, then so be it!
You're much more forgiving than you need to be. Good for you.
In my view, he can leave. He's given us no kind of sustained success, and signing him for a deal that would pay him upwards of FORTY million dollars per season would be equivalent of urinating on the cap sheet for the next 5 years. Signing that deal would be damn near guaranteeing that we win nothing for the next five years, and you know what happens when AD hasn't won anything for another 5 years but has collected $235m for that?
He walks away in free agency, and we start scrabbling to rebuild with a 33/34 year old Jrue and an AD that, even if we got the chance to try and trade then, would be 31 years old and not worth nearly the same value.
Those are risks you may take in some circumstances. Maybe he turns it around and becomes that leader and we do start winning. Maybe he doesn't, but he accepts the need to build more organically and we keep our draft picks and maybe build a few younger players like Denver did? Who knows.
But that's not a risk you take with the dude who somehow thinks admitting that he doesn't even dress himself is less embarrassing than owning up to his own mocking attitude towards the franchise, and openly states multiple times on television that he would rather be literally anywhere else.
I don't think it's necessarily even a case of expecting those other players to give you what AD can. I totally recognise that AD is one of the most talented players in the league. After Lebron, there may be no one more talented. Maybe KD, but really that's it. But we all know that sometimes things can be more, or less, than the sum of their parts. Do I think you could get two players, and have the tandem give us something close to what AD can give us? In terms of statistics, yes. In terms of individual gravity, very possibly not. But The ability to have those players there, with stability, and chemistry, and a willingness to be here without having alienated half the fanbase? That's worth a lot.
Obviously you're right, it's a balancing act, and if AD were to resign for the supermax, I would swallow my pride as much as possible and root for him because I want the team to win. But that desire to win might end up being in spite of AD, rather than because of him in some ways, and I'd much rather just have some fresh faces with buckets of potential and a desire to actually play for us without acting like petulant children.
Actually, yes you do take that risk with one of the best players in the world. If he wants to sign the extension after talking with Griffin, then you sign him in a heartbeat. You don't worry about whether or not he is going to leave in 5 years. You are seriously worried about 5 years from now!? Oy vey!
No, I'm worried about the process of those 5 years. If you told me right now that giving AD that contract might be annoying and galling, and that he was DEFINITELY leaving in 5 years, but it would guarantee us a championship, I'd say go for it.
But since I have absolutely ZERO reason to suspect that giving AD that contract would result in any degree of winning, given his historical inability to make us win anything + the added difficulty of trying to navigate a cap sheet when someone is earning such an obnoxious amount of money, then I have fair reason to suspect that those 5 years would be wasted too.
It's one thing to accept a risk if you have good reason to suspect it may pay off in some way. But if you have absolutely zero faith that there is any likelihood of a payoff, and you STILL take the risk, you're just asking to get burned and it's your own fault when you're forced to watch it collapse.
I would resign Davis in a heartbeat if he's in it for the long haul. The way Davis plays is an exciting brand of basketball to watch. Do I want us to do better, of course but I'd be happy if we could get to the point where Portland, Toronto, or the Kings when Webber was there.
On the other hand we could have a really good rebuild with the assets we would get back from Davis. If I could trade Davis for Tatum and Beal along with our first round pick, I'd do that as well but I still would rather keep Davis if he wants to be here.
“You are either all the way in or all the way out.”
-David Griffin
Griffin is not waiting around folks. He means business. Wait&See is not an option.
Griffin made a point of saying that everyone has to be "all the way in," and AD would be no exception if he signed. I'd love to see an "all the way in" Davis play here for the next 5 years, at least. I would instantly forgive him of his transgressions, as would 98% of the fanbase. The other 2% will forgive him as we start winning, of which we most certainly will do if he signs the extension.
What has Griffin done that made us choose him? He was gifted 3 1st overall picks. Couldn't keep things together with Irving and James thus losing them both. Drafting Bennett 1st overall is a stain that doesn't easily wipe off.
It's that simple. Griffin will say, "I'm doing this. That. And the other thing. Tom Benson is no longer with us. And Dell Demps is done. Do you want to part of this awesome thing we're doing? Sign here. Otherwise, you can pack your bags for where ever gives us the best offer."
And if it were me, I'd trade him anyway even if he does sign. Could be just what I need to get him on a team that wouldn't normally want AD without the assurance of a contract. Be a crappy thing to do though, in a vacuum.
Couldn’t have made a bette there then Griffin. Guy is exactly what this franchise needed. Excited for the future of this team. Got my tickets for next season!!
I 100% agree. If Griffin is enough to keep him here then there was obviously a lot going on behind the scenes he did not like. Can anyone blame him? I have been one of his biggest critics but I would absolutely forgive him if he gave a sincere apology and was committed going forward.
Yep. For 7 years.
Guess how many playoff games we've won? Guess how many winning seasons we've had? Guess how much sustained success there has been? It's quite clear that I said zero reason to suspect it would result in winning. I already know that having AD on your team results in big numbers and flashy dunks and highlight blocks. I've been quite emphatic in my belief that an engaged AD is a top 2 player in the world. But he has done absolutely nothing to turn those numbers into wins.
I believe Griffin left before Lebron and Irving left. Some think Griffin is still close to Lebron. Also let this sink in
https://www.nola.com/pelicans/2019/0...gm-report.html
Do you really think it's fair to put the blame on Griff for it though? Kyrie had multiple years left on his deal and Griff was trying to deal with Lebron James and his demands. That puts things a little outside of the normal operation.
And what CLE actually got back in the Kyrie trade can't be pinned on him whatsoever.
This league isn't about fair. It was a tough situation but that's the job and as of right now Griffin resume has more fails then successful moment. There's a solid chance that even if Griffin does a great job assembling talent the "who's alpha" situation will play out again. Why would I want a person who's failed already?
I will agree the results of the Irving trade is not on Griffin. No that lies squarely on the stupidity of Gilbert and Altman. They should have gone all in to keep James or completely broken that team apart with James still on it. They tried the most difficult thing both and the obvious happened.
I can understand that. I wanted Trajan Langdon personally. But at the same time, some people would say that Griff isn't settling because he's been in such high demand for a while now, and there are rumours that Langdon didn't do too well in the interviews (caveat emptor there)
Griffin was the main one I thought had an inflated resume and I couldn't get excited for him through the process.
That said what it seems like he adds over just being the main guy is across the NBA there seems to be a level of respect for him. He adds legitimacy that Dell never could to the job. He also seems to be able to convey the need to add a ton more funding and expanding the front office workers.
Maybe he is just average in regards to drafting players but his skill in other areas to actually establish a culture and set up a successful structure and hierarchy will probably have more long term benefit to the team than just drafting a player.
Trent Redden, I think. I can't say too much about him, I'm no expert, but I've heard a lot of good things and the Clippers have done a really good job of rebuilding without tanking out. They lost CP3, Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, and JJ Reddick over the last two seasons or so, and they're stil in the playoffs. That's impressive.
Meh. The mistakes don't bother me as much because he strikes me as the type of guy who truly analyzes and learns from his mistakes. Most just say it. If anything, it makes me more relieved he's made those mistakes.
As for AD, he's gone. I mean, you could make an argument that if he buys into the system and signs a long extension, I could see letting him stay. Now this splinters off into so many tangents so I'll try to stay organized....but he seems like a nice dude who got swayed by some bros and if he says he's learned his lesson and commits to us, I'd buy that.
What I wouldn't like about that is that I really do think AD needs an alpha next to him to win. He is the best basketball player in the league. He is not a leader. If Jrue took the lead and made this his team with AD and his Lancelot, that would work. But the NBA doesn't do that for some reason. So I really think AD needs a Lebron, Harden, Curry, or Westbrook with him to win. I don't see that happening, so we would either just stay a good but not great team or he would go to leave again years down the road.
Why I would keep him is because you simply will not get a return worth trading him....except maybe for Zion (and even though we have the best shot at him, it's still an unlikely scenario). He's really worth more than what the Celts and Lakers can offer. Simply put, no team has the ammunition worth AD so we won't get back good value.
ALL OF THAT BEING SAID, he is gone. Like the chance of him staying are .01%. I don't even know why I typed all of this out.
I appreciate how we as fans aren’t looking at this hiring through rose colored glasses. I don’t see a single post stating that this is the start of the greatest run in NBA history, nor do I see a single post saying that we are destined to fail. Everyone here (I suppose because of year of experience under Demps) have come to the conclusion that this is just another hire in order to try getting to somewhere greater. Will it work? Who knows, there isn’t a whole lot of optimism about the hire, but we are willing to give him a shot for now.
In short, thanks for keeping it with your expectations about this hire. Let’s hope it doesn’t come back to bite us #pelslife style.
If Perk agrees then it is a good hire
Finally the @PelicansNBA got a great basketball mind to run the organization! Great pick up @PelicansNBA! Congrats @dg_riff well deserved my brother
— Kendrick Perkins (@KendrickPerkins) April 12, 2019
Perk tells it like it is
That was suppose to be 100.
Yeah, at least we aren’t the Knicks or Suns. There is always that.
That's the part that has me very optimistic. Not necessarily Perk. I don't really care just for his opinion. But the media, talking heads, and other ex players as a whole. It really feels like during the AD fiasco the sentiment was "Klutch is picking on that special kid". Listening to various sources, they were talking about the franchise like it was an actual franchise. No derision or anything like that. Deadpan like we are a normal team.
If we can get a decent haul back for AD and resign Payton and/Randle.....we might actually be an attractive location, again. That gives me SQUEE.