Summer League - July 7th - New Orleans Pelicans vs Minnesota Timberwolves

Dyson looked strong most of the game. Looks like he'll contribute when on the floor with more NBA talent.

Just comparing J Hawk to Trey, Trey's SL debut was stronger, but J Hawk is ahead of where Trey was offensively as a rookie. He's not just some spot up/movement shooter.

Glad they limited EJ's minutes. He also looked good. I wouldn't play him any more than 2 more SL games.

Would like to see Liam Robbins at some point. Landers Nolley also had a good game.

That Minnesota point guard is intriguing.

31 turnovers. :idoh:

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

That?s the problem he?s a 2nd year player going up against mostly rookies. He should be dominating the entire game.

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He's coming off a pretty impactful injury, and is clearly an structured player in an unstructured environment. He was clearly the best player on the floor most of the night.

I like Dyson Daniels. Play-making Mikal Bridges is my comp for him.

If you guys want to trade him though, please send him over to my Lakers, pretty please? :p

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Originally Posted by LAL1947

I like Dyson Daniels. Play-making Mikal Bridges is my comp for him.

If you guys want to trade him though, please send him over to my Lakers, pretty please? :p

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For Reaves and Vanderbilt?

I'm also going to note, though it's hard to believe maybe, dyson is still extremely young.

Like, he's the youngest player on our team this SL. Even though he's not a rookie.

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Originally Posted by RobertM320

For Reaves and Vanderbilt?

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That's a good question TBH. Guess if we are stuck with Lebron for another year or two, then probably not because of fit. If we were rebuilding though, then definitely yes. I think Dyson has upside that is untapped or TBD. A play-making SF who plays defense like I think he can is already valuable. If he adds shooting/scoring to his game, he becomes even more valuable.

Anyway, you guys have a good player on your hands with Dyson, that's what I was trying to say. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by LAL1947

That's a good question TBH. Guess if we are stuck with Lebron for another year or two, then probably not because of fit. If we were rebuilding though, then definitely yes. I think Dyson has upside that is untapped or TBD. A play-making SF who plays defense like I think he can is already valuable. If he adds shooting/scoring to his game, he becomes even more valuable.

Anyway, you guys have a good player on your hands with Dyson, that's what I was trying to say. :thumbup:

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But there's the rub. YOU consider him a play-making SF. The team sees him as a PG.

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Originally Posted by RobertM320

But there's the rub. YOU consider him a play-making SF. The team sees him as a PG.

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Well, rightly or wrongly, I view positions from defensive standpoint. Dyson is not going to be guarding small guards for a whole game, and because of his size, he is an SF to me. I don't even consider Luka a PG for the same reason... he is a point-forward (i.e., more than a play-making SF) because he is capable of running a whole offense and is also a natural scorer. I have not seen Dyson do that, so he is more of a secondary play-maker or play-making SF. Dyson's main strengths at this time are defense first, followed by being a secondary play-maker.

We saw what we needed to see from the 3 main guys. I’m satisfied. Liam Robbins is the 4th one I am interested in so hopefully he gets some minutes in the next one.

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Originally Posted by RobertM320

But there's the rub. YOU consider him a play-making SF. The team sees him as a PG.

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The team doesn't really view anyone as a PG. Ball handling by committee with Zion and BI being the primary points. Last season just got out of whack because we missed both of those guys for so long.

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Originally Posted by LAL1947

I like Dyson Daniels. Play-making Mikal Bridges is my comp for him.

If you guys want to trade him though, please send him over to my Lakers, pretty please? :p

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If only he could shoot a third as well as Bridges.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

If only he could shoot a third as well as Bridges.

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Agree. And it's easy to say, "he's young, he can develop it." But his shot did not look great today.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

The team doesn't really view anyone as a PG. Ball handling by committee with Zion and BI being the primary points. Last season just got out of whack because we missed both of those guys for so long.

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Fair point.

i really liked what i saw from Hawkins. He still needs to get way stronger, but the dibble game was more nuanced than I thought, he played within the flow of the offense and generally was in the right spots on both ends. A lot of the turnovers were just unlucky/rookie jitters. He was a few made shots a way from an amazing first showing and those will fall.

EJ got completely out motored by Leonard Miller, but looked like he knew what he was doing out there. I'm going to chalk the deficiencies up to him still getting his game shape back. As seen by the minutes.

Dyson was fine and is at least showing signs of improvement, I'm just not not sure what the path to stardom/minutes are for a zero level scorer. I get he's young but he really needs to make the leap fast. The most optimistic 1:1 player comparison I can think of for a raw guard is Dejounte Murray but even he was a starter for a playoff team in his 2nd year.

the rest of the team looked quite bad. Nolley was good scoring but I was not impressed with the rest of his game at all, but he was the least appalling of the bunch.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

i really liked what i saw from Hawkins. He still needs to get way stronger, but the dibble game was more nuanced than I thought, he played within the flow of the offense and generally was in the right spots on both ends. A lot of the turnovers were just unlucky/rookie jitters. He was a few made shots a way from an amazing first showing and those will fall.

EJ got completely out motored by Leonard Miller, but looked like he knew what he was doing out there. I'm going to chalk the deficiencies up to him still getting his game shape back. As seen by the minutes.

Dyson was fine and is at least showing signs of improvement, I'm just not not sure what the path to stardom/minutes are for a zero level scorer. I get he's young but he really needs to make the leap fast. The most optimistic 1:1 player comparison I can think of for a raw guard is Dejounte Murray but even he was a starter for a playoff team in his 2nd year.

the rest of the team looked quite bad. Nolley was good scoring but I was not impressed with the rest of his game at all, but he was the least appalling of the bunch.

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Yeah I don’t think we are making a summer league run this year lol. All that really matters this time around is the key guys. We don’t need any more gems out of this group.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

i really liked what i saw from Hawkins. He still needs to get way stronger, but the dibble game was more nuanced than I thought, he played within the flow of the offense and generally was in the right spots on both ends. A lot of the turnovers were just unlucky/rookie jitters. He was a few made shots a way from an amazing first showing and those will fall.

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Pels fans gotta hope that Hawkins' shooting form and quick release rub off on Dyson in practice.

31 tournovers LOL. What a ugly game… and Yes , Dyson played well.

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Originally Posted by Creative

31 tournovers LOL. What a ugly game… and Yes , Dyson played well.

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Dyson played pretty well, but still should have been dominating against the competition. He still showed hesitancy on offense. I also would like to see some floor general-like characteristics. He was very sloppy with the ball overall and did not show great court vision. Only one SL game though.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Dyson played pretty well, but still should have been dominating against the competition. He still showed hesitancy on offense. I also would like to see some floor general-like characteristics. He was very sloppy with the ball overall and did not show great court vision. Only one SL game though.

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He's a structured player, in an unstructured environment. This is someone who is all about amplifying other people, and he's playing in a setting where there's basically no set offense and a bunch of people who - frankly - are just not anywhere near the NBA level.

He had 4 turnovers but at least two of those, from my memory, were fumbles by the person he was passing to more than anything - and he wasn't even the leading turnover machine of the team.

''He should have been dominating''- he led the team in scoring, he got to the line 8 times (showed far more aggression that last season in attacking the basket) and he was generating steals at will. He was dominating. He was clearly the best player on the floor for 3 quarters of the game.

And he did this as still the youngest player on the team, which is worth remembering.

There is someone on this summer league team is who almost a decade older than him.

Summer league players play their arse off. Some play too hard. They are trying to make an NBA roster. It’s a different type of environment to the NBA so it isn’t always a walk in the park. You are more or less looking for traits and fundamentals as opposed to looking at stats (although good box score is always a plus). I liked what I saw from our guys. J Hawk’s movement was excellent, he was willing to shoot and he punished closeouts well. EJ looked very willing to work and had a nice touch around the basket. Dyson was solid as a ballhandler and looked like he could potentially be that point guard/forward down the line. I want to see the shots fall, but summer league is rough. It often ends up being an endurance contest and a lot of these guys aren’t at full fitness yet.

Fans putting a hard grade on last night's performances really know very little about basketball. That means any hard grade on any young player. Including Victor. Instant gratification is what folks seek versus growth and adjustment.

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Originally Posted by Lee2000

Fans putting a hard grade on last night's performances really know very little about basketball. That means any hard grade on any young player. Including Victor. Instant gratification is what folks seek versus growth and adjustment.

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With the caveat, that it's still early, I truly don't see a lot of growth from DD over last year. The knock on him has been his shot, and, for me, the 2023/24 version seems no better than the 2022/23 version. Heck, he airballed a free throw. I'm willing to chalk it up to the players around him, but his handles, like last year, are suspect. On Friday, he again showed his strengths...shutdown defense, making the right play, and the ability to get to the goal (not necessarily finish, mind you). I see a lot of Matisse Thybulle in him, which means he will be a solid role player who carves out a niche as a lockdown defender but gives you little on the other side of the court.

I hope he doesn't turnout to be another talented teenage 'up-and-comer', who come's to the Pelicans for a few years and then fades into the sunset. We've had a couple under this regime.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

Summer league players play their arse off. Some play too hard. They are trying to make an NBA roster. It’s a different type of environment to the NBA so it isn’t always a walk in the park. You are more or less looking for traits and fundamentals as opposed to looking at stats (although good box score is always a plus). I liked what I saw from our guys. J Hawk’s movement was excellent, he was willing to shoot and he punished closeouts well. EJ looked very willing to work and had a nice touch around the basket. Dyson was solid as a ballhandler and looked like he could potentially be that point guard/forward down the line. I want to see the shots fall, but summer league is rough. It often ends up being an endurance contest and a lot of these guys aren’t at full fitness yet.

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Mostly agree, except there are also a bunch of fundamentals (like the fundamentals of team defense) that you can't take from SL either.

Traits, habits, physical prowess, instinct plays, hustle, that kind of thing: these are what matter from SL.

For example, I don't really care that dyson went 0/4 from 3, I'm happy he's started taking them when they're there: willingness to shoot is a prerequisite for being a shooter of any standard. Similarly, he shot 60% from 2 but I'm less interested in that than I am in the fact that he took double digit shots at the rim and got to the FT line 8 times: that kind of aggression attacking the basket is huge for someone like him, who isn't a shooter of any quality right now.

Similarly, Hawkins shot 30% from 3 but who cares, it's more important that he was taking them off a variety of positions and play styles including one awesome pullup from well beyond the arc. That's what we want from him, so the fact that he's comfortable doing it even with the NBA line is important.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

He's a structured player, in an unstructured environment. This is someone who is all about amplifying other people, and he's playing in a setting where there's basically no set offense and a bunch of people who - frankly - are just not anywhere near the NBA level.

He had 4 turnovers but at least two of those, from my memory, were fumbles by the person he was passing to more than anything - and he wasn't even the leading turnover machine of the team.

''He should have been dominating''- he led the team in scoring, he got to the line 8 times (showed far more aggression that last season in attacking the basket) and he was generating steals at will. He was dominating. He was clearly the best player on the floor for 3 quarters of the game.

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You are right... but it would also help if people tempered their expectations. Dyson is not a PG or a primary play-maker who can run an offense by himself.... so if people are expecting that, then they are bound to be disappointed... and that is possibly where some disconnect comes from. He is a really good defender first, then a secondary play-maker at SF. The more he is able to contribute on offense as he matures (shooting, getting to the rim, etc, all of which might make him a more prolific scorer), the more valuable he can become.