To Playoffs or Not to Playoffs?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taker597

Zion coming back...

From missing a whole season from injury and never played in the playoffs.

What can you possibly gain from that other than mental real estate? Nothing.

You knowhy Pelicans are look at as a bottom feeder. Because everytime it's December. We are 3-16 or 6-22 or 6-18

Getting into the playoffs doesn't change that.

GSW didn't click because of playoff experience. They click because of internal growth into a historic squadd and maybe getting rid of an insane head coach.

---

The Zion situation is so sad for the fan base. They handled it so bad from the start that they are scared now to tell us the truth, because it might derail the positive vibes around the team. Griff is probably hoping they don?t win the playin, so they don?t have to tell us any more Zion information. I mean what is the timetable for a return when a guy has been cleared for activity for a month? Even 5v5. Once Nance got cleared, it was a week or so before he returned. Zion takes months after starting to play basketball to return to the court? Absolute non sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fedupfan

The Zion situation is so sad for the fan base. They handled it so bad from the start that they are scared now to tell us the truth, because it might derail the positive vibes around the team. Griff is probably hoping they don?t win the playin, so they don?t have to tell us any more Zion information. I mean what is the timetable for a return when a guy has been cleared for activity for a month? Even 5v5. Once Nance got cleared, it was a week or so before he returned. Zion takes months after starting to play basketball to return to the court? Absolute non sense.

---

Foot injury are very chaotic and timetable are incredibly inconsistent. Especially if it's a lisfranc injury. Super inconsistent that varies from person to person depending on vary degree of injury.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Look, it is fine if you think playoff experience has value but to act as if others are dumb and don?t believe it?s that big of a factor is wrong IMO. It can?t be proven that it doesn?t, so nobody can tell you that you are crazy for wanting it so bad, but you have no proof it has this mystical value. If it did, how did a young Atlanta team get so much of it last year and come back worse? Reddish showed signs in the playoffs and got that valuable experience in big games and came back worse. Couldn?t even get regular minutes with the Knicks. I have hundreds of examples of it having no effect.

But again, that doesn?t prove that it doesn?t. Maybe it is a revelation for some guys and does nothing for others. Maybe some guys appear to evolve after playoff experience but it?s correlation not causation and they would have made the leap regardless

Either way, it is an unknown. And it?s fine to prefer an unknown over a 10%, over a draft pick years out. But it?s not a no brainer. Others aren?t losers or fake fans or dummies if they don?t agree. There are good points on both sides

---

I never called anyone a loser or dummy. I simply challenged the perception that making the playoffs isn?t valuable and rooting to lose for marginal assets is more important.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

I never called anyone a loser or dummy. I simply challenged the perception that making the playoffs isn?t valuable and rooting to lose for marginal assets is more important.

---

I apologize - I was referring to the 'loser mentality' argument that most on your side say is a symptom of not winning games like that. Regardless, I like this framing of your argument better. You think the playoff experience is better than increasing odds for assets. That is totally reasonable. I dont agree, but I cant prove either side. What I will say is I think this play in thing kind of lets you have the best of both worlds. Pels will have two high pressure games here that will be akin to a playoff series. And if you lose the 2nd, you get those assets back. Better than arguing to finish 9th in the past to keep lotto balls and not getting any high pressure game experience.

For Me playoffs should be our main target.

Another reason to miss the playoffs is that it theoretically mitigates the outcome of losing the Laker pick completely - we would likely be one of those three teams to jump ahead.

But it's entirely possible we end up with no 1st round whatsoever

I'll give the same answer to the originally posed question that I've given all season. Winning is everything. Of course we play to win.

The NBA draft is overrated. Teams can find cornerstones but otherwise, most of the drafted players will move on to other teams. Few franchises find success building through the draft. More franchises find success by attracting FAs and making trades (and the trades almost always involve future unslotted picks). This team has something special going with the culture and environment. Winning will sustain that. It takes multiple winning seasons to become a FA destination. That has to start at some point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msusousaphone

I'll give the same answer to the originally posed question that I've given all season. Winning is everything. Of course we play to win.

The NBA draft is overrated. Teams can find cornerstones but otherwise, most of the drafted players will move on to other teams. Few franchises find success building through the draft. More franchises find success by attracting FAs and making trades (and the trades almost always involve future unslotted picks). This team has something special going with the culture and environment. Winning will sustain that. It takes multiple winning seasons to become a FA destination. That has to start at some point.

---

Okay, lets take these points one by one

1. Nobody, I repeat nobody, is advocating for them to not to play to win. Some of us wants them to try as hard as they can, but simply be beat by another team. Just want to make sure that is clear. We all want them to try to win

2. The NBA draft is overrated? Okay, lets say we agree on the fact that most picks aren?t major needle movers. What you arent going including here is the value of the pick itself. CJ McCollum was acquired with a pick. We got Jonas for a draft pick. What is undeniable is that you can get better players if you have access to a draft pick than if you dont. And sure, you can use the pick and blow it, but there are so many things you can do with a draft pick that can help your roster that to argue it?s lack of value is insane

3. What is overrated, however, is this idea of making the playoffs as an 8th seed and getting smacked will now help you build a roster in the ways you advocated. Show me the small market team who sneaked into the playoffs and then all of a sudden players around the league were lining up to come play for them. We know that isnt happening. And if they win for multiple years, they still won’t attract big names, and even if they do, it won’t matter if four years ago they lost in the second game of the play in vs they were the 8th seed and got smacked. And if it isnt via FA, it?s going to be trading for guys willing to come, which goes back to point #2 and having draft picks to trade for them.

Look, we are all hoping for the guys to go out there and try as hard as they can this week. Nobody is asking for them to try and lose, but some simply see more value in assets helping to improve the roster than 4 or 5 playoff games. One is tangible, one is intangible. Impossible to prove which is more valuable, but what we cant do in the debate is straw man each others arguments. We can disagree but we must stay intellectually honest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taker597

This isn't football. Tell me a 5-10th seed that make a deep playoff run in the past ten years.

This mindset is why we only gotten to the playoffs 3 times in the past 10 years.

Funny how you talk about a loser mentality... But your dying for a NBA participation awards and never seeing the post season again in another 4 seasons.

---

The Pelicans have had plenty of draft capital the past 10 years. What we havent had is success in the playoffs. If we had success our star players wouldnt always be clamoring to leave. The time to win is now. We have a good young team stocked with talent. Any draft pick we get is unlikely to make an impact next year, so if you think we dont have a playoff team right now, then we wont have one next year either. Im sorry that you dont believe in the team we have, but thats on you. You have a losers mentality because the team has been what it has been for so long. Times have changed, fan base needs to get with it and stop hoping that their team loses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I apologize - I was referring to the 'loser mentality' argument that most on your side say is a symptom of not winning games like that. Regardless, I like this framing of your argument better. You think the playoff experience is better than increasing odds for assets. That is totally reasonable. I dont agree, but I cant prove either side. What I will say is I think this play in thing kind of lets you have the best of both worlds. Pels will have two high pressure games here that will be akin to a playoff series. And if you lose the 2nd, you get those assets back. Better than arguing to finish 9th in the past to keep lotto balls and not getting any high pressure game experience.

---

Hoping that your team loses, is a loser mentality.

The good news is that what we "root for" has no impact on what happens. I know this is a simple concept, but people seem to overlook this basic fact.

I want to have fun watching the Pelicans. If we make the playoffs, I will be able to attend at least 2 playoff games. Playoff games are fun. I like fun. I want more fun TODAY.

Anecdotally, the Suns used their bubble performance as a springboard to success. Memphis used last year's play-in tournament success to gain confidence for this year's success. Will that happen for the Pelicans? I don't know! But it will be fun to find out.

EDIT: It was fun as heck when we won the draft lottery to secure Zion. Man, that was fun, so I get it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Hoping that your team loses, is a loser mentality.

---

And there it is

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Upper Decker

The good news is that what we "root for" has no impact on what happens. I know this is a simple concept, but people seem to overlook this basic fact.

I want to have fun watching the Pelicans. If we make the playoffs, I will be able to attend at least 2 playoff games. Playoff games are fun. I like fun. I want more fun TODAY.

Anecdotally, the Suns used their bubble performance as a springboard to success. Memphis used last year's play-in tournament success to gain confidence for this year's success. Will that happen for the Pelicans? I don't know! But it will be fun to find out.

EDIT: It was fun as heck when we won the draft lottery to secure Zion. Man, that was fun, so I get it.

---

Exactly. I would prefer they miss the playoffs and gain assets but what I want will not have any impact. And if they win and make the playoffs, cool. Then we get to watch some playoff games. Not like any of us who prefer a loss at LA or Minny will be devastated if they win. Its just a preference and honestly both scenarios are good - just a question of which one someone finds slightly better

Your point about immediate gratification is the best one, though. Of course most people lean towards wanting the sure thing now. But then let the lotto come and the team in the 11 slot jump up to #3 and lets see how people feel. Then, on the night of the draft itself. The next years when the roster is the roster and the memory of a playoff loss is long gone. I can go on and on

I argued for wanting the Pels to lose to the Spurs in the last regular season game, with the argument being we would still be the heavy favorite to land 9 and it would help to keep the Lakers pick. How did that work out? Would have winning that game changed anything for the Pels? Nope, still 9 seed. Would the team have gained some mystical powers going into the Spurs play-in game? Or, is it possible they are more humble and hungry now, and have an even stronger desire to get revenge on that Spurs team?

Winning isnt always all good. Losing isnt always that bad. To think it is that black and white is to be a child.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

And there it is

---

Yes there it is. Hoping that your team loses in the play in, is some loser BS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Yes there it is. Hoping that your team loses in the play in, is some loser BS.

---

Cool - and yet multiple people in this fan base are rooting for that. So, you calling them losers wont change anything. Maybe it makes you feel better about yourself, so if thats the case, do whatever is good for you. But you are not contributing anything worthwhile to an intellectual debate. But if you feel like a bigger man now, do you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I argued for wanting the Pels to lose to the Spurs in the last regular season game, with the argument being we would still be the heavy favorite to land 9 and it would help to keep the Lakers pick. How did that work out? Would have winning that game changed anything for the Pels? Nope, still 9 seed. Would the team have gained some mystical powers going into the Spurs play-in game? Or, is it possible they are more humble and hungry now, and have an even stronger desire to get revenge on that Spurs team?

Winning isnt always all good. Losing isnt always that bad. To think it is that black and white is to be a child.

---

This a dumbass argument. The team is playing in a win or home game. The idea that they will have a stronger desire to get revenge in the Spurs is ridiculous. Playing for your entire season is all the motivation a team can have. What would have been nice is to have had success against them and have something to draw on instead of getting blown out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

This a dumbass argument. The team is playing in a win or home game. The idea that they will have a stronger desire to get revenge in the Spurs is ridiculous. Playing for your entire season is all the motivation a team can have. What would have been nice is to have had success against them and have something to draw on instead of getting blown out.

---

They didnt get blown out. They had a shot at the end to win the game. And missed it. The blow out you might be referring to is days earlier when they had BI and CJ and destroyed the Spurs. But why let facts get in the way of you insulting someone?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Cool - and yet multiple people in this fan base are rooting for that. So, you calling them losers wont change anything. Maybe it makes you feel better about yourself, so if thats the case, do whatever is good for you. But you are not contributing anything worthwhile to an intellectual debate. But if you feel like a bigger man now, do you

---

Yeah multiple people are hoping their team loses, its pretty pitiful honestly. I disagree with logic but also disagree with sentiment behind it. Its like showing up to your best friends wedding and making toast saying I hope you get divorced because my theory is the second marriage might be better. As a fan you should hope for the best outcome and desire victory. Unless you have no hope in your team and think it needs to be torn down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

They didnt get blown out. They had a shot at the end to win the game. And missed it. The blow out you might be referring to is days earlier when they had BI and CJ and destroyed the Spurs. But why let facts get in the way of you insulting someone?

---

Ok but blown out or close loss doesn’t change the fundamental flaw in your argument. That it is better to lose the game because they have extra motivation to get revenge. In a game where the entire season hinges on getting a win, you think losing to that team a couple weeks earlier is helpful somehow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Ok but blown out or close loss doesn’t change the fundamental flaw in your argument. That it is better to lose the game because they have extra motivation to get revenge. In a game where the entire season hinges on getting a win, you think losing to that team a couple weeks earlier is helpful somehow.

---

I think the team that loses the first game has an advantage in the second. Both teams win or go home but I think human nature kicks in and the team coming off the loss is slightly more desperate, locked in, motivated, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Its like showing up to your best friends wedding and making toast saying I hope you get divorced because my theory is the second marriage might be better. As a fan you should hope for the best outcome and desire victory. .

---

I like this analogy. It is ridiculous.

Its not fun to root for your team to lose, even if you *think* it is in their best interest. If we're not chasing fun, I don't know what sports fandom is all about.

Just imagine how fun the future will be when we land a top 4 pick and have Zion back

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AusPel

Just imagine how fun the future will be when we land a top 4 pick and have Zion back

---

Nice home win against Spurs..

Tough road win against someone

Try like hell to steal one in Phoenix

Play two hard fought games in front of a packed Blender and let some of these guys taste a home playoff crowd for the first time

Griffin gonna trade those picks for a big man anyway

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jaxmc1023

Nice home win against Spurs..

Tough road win against someone

Try like hell to steal one in Phoenix

Play two hard fought games in front of a packed Blender and let some of these guys taste a home playoff crowd for the first time

Griffin gonna trade those picks for a big man anyway

---

lol don't make me cry