2022 NBA Draft Lottery

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

If they can't trade down they take Griffin. If Sharpe is available there is a decent chance that OKC will pounce, we move down and take Sochan. They ain't taking Sharpe with the hope they can trade him later. There is no conceivable way that after the Zion drama Griffin takes on Sharpe's ego and his handlers.

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A guy can threaten all he wants prior to the draft. After you take him, you got him for five years. They have no leverage. I wouldn?t care about any of those threats. One of the other top 7 guys would prefer not to come here and I guarantee Griff would take him if he is on the board

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Originally Posted by As I See It

I think we would have an understanding with OKC. We would select Sharpe @ 8 and, if Sochan or Dieng is still there at 12, we consummate the trade. If not, we'll simply roll with Sharpe.

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I think if we move down to 12, it's almost guaranteed that we'll have one of our options at 12 either Griffin, Sochan, or Branham. Maybe Dieng, I haven't really heard much chatter about the Pels interest in Dieng. But if Dieng is one of our options than it's 100% guaranteed we'll have someone we're targeting. Even if we're not interested in one of those four, odds are someone outside of our sphere of interest will get drafted, probably Duren or Johnny Davis.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

A guy can threaten all he wants prior to the draft. After you take him, you got him for five years. They have no leverage. I wouldn?t care about any of those threats. One of the other top 7 guys would prefer not to come here and I guarantee Griff would take him if he is on the board

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Hmm, sounds like Mathurin, maybe Ivey. Due to lack of big role immediately on a full Pels' squad, compared to immediate opportunity on other lotto teams.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

A guy can threaten all he wants prior to the draft. After you take him, you got him for five years. They have no leverage. I wouldn?t care about any of those threats. One of the other top 7 guys would prefer not to come here and I guarantee Griff would take him if he is on the board

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It doesn't matter who has what leverage. Griffin isn't going to want the drama or any more negative press dealing with someone who doesn't want to be with the Pelicans. He'd sooner get someone the coaching staff is high on, like Griffin, then play games with a rookie and his extended group of handlers.

Woahhhh... I'm really glad we got 8th. The fall off after 8th is steep.

Mathurin and Dyson stock keep rising while only Murray and Sharpe seems to be getting a bit cold. It's still better than what comes after our pick.

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

I think if we move down to 12, it's almost guaranteed that we'll have one of our options at 12 either Griffin, Sochan, or Branham. Maybe Dieng, I haven't really heard much chatter about the Pels interest in Dieng. But if Dieng is one of our options than it's 100% guaranteed we'll have someone we're targeting. Even if we're not interested in one of those four, odds are someone outside of our sphere of interest will get drafted, probably Duren or Johnny Davis.

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Yea even if Sochan isn't there at 12, that means Dieng probably would be. #10 seems like the lowest you can guarantee still getting Sochan or Dieng.

The range for #12 seems to be: J. Davis, Duren, M. Williams, Griffin, Branham, Agbaji, J. Williams. If we could trade back to 12, and get one of Sochan, Dieng, or Duren, plus further assets, that's a win. Duren at 12 is palatable, 18 with that frame and athleticism, future Bam potential. I'm not as high on Branham. Dalen Terry at #12 would be the wtf Primo-esque pick.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Woahhhh... I'm really glad we got 8th. The fall off after 8th is steep.

Mathurin and Dyson stock keep rising while only Murray and Sharpe seems to be getting a bit cold. It's still better than what comes after our pick.

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I think Murray stock just appears to be cold because he’s solid and draft twitter gets bored with guys after a while. All looking for the shiny new object. I don’t think Murray stock is getting cold around NBA circles

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

It doesn't matter who has what leverage. Griffin isn't going to want the drama or any more negative press dealing with someone who doesn't want to be with the Pelicans. He'd sooner get someone the coaching staff is high on, like Griffin, then play games with a rookie and his extended group of handlers.

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You are way overblowing that. Guys PREFER to be other places. There is nobody who would be upset to be a Pel. Again, if you guys knew how it goes on behind the scenes, it sounds like you all would hate all of these guys. They are all trying to maneuver to preferred spots. Literally, all of them

Again, Griffs issue with Sharpe was never his preference on where to play. He always questioned his competitiveness

ALL these guys are trying to pick their spots. Every single one.

Does anyone have us as their top spot?

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

It doesn't matter who has what leverage. Griffin isn't going to want the drama or any more negative press dealing with someone who doesn't want to be with the Pelicans. He'd sooner get someone the coaching staff is high on, like Griffin, then play games with a rookie and his extended group of handlers.

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If Sharpe and Griffin were seen as equals, I hear you. But that's not the case. Now, Sharpe and Daniels? Maybe...and that's a big maybe.

You have to draft value when you have a lottery selection. Ever hear of guy named Jaxson Hayes? Value trumps personalities every day of the week unless the player is an out-and-out lowlife. There is no indication that Sharpe is that. Even if worse comes to worse, you make him Birmingham's problem until you can move him (at the Pelican's price).

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Originally Posted by Sovereign

Does anyone have us as their top spot?

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I have no idea their specific rankings. But again, I think this only matters to you guys because of your lack of awareness of how common this is and because of past scars.

But this isn’t Steve Francis. This isn’t a bunch of guys who will sit out or pout at the presser. They will be happy if a non ideal team picks their name. We all have preferences in life. I want to go to New Zealand but it looks like my wife will pick Portugal for us this year. I will be happy to go.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

If Sharpe and Griffin were seen as equals, I hear you. But that's not the case. Now, Sharpe and Daniels? Maybe...and that's a big maybe.

You have to draft value when you have a lottery selection. Ever hear of guy named Jaxson Hayes? Value trumps personalities every day of the week unless the player is an out-and-out lowlife. There is no indication that Sharpe is that. Even if worse comes to worse, you make him Birmingham's problem until you can move him (at the Pelican's price).

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Agree with all of that. You have time. We all are in agreement that the guy we draft ain’t playing next year any way. So use it as a year to get to know him, recruit him, and/or boost his trade value. If he shows any flashes at all, you have a fantastic asset to move next year

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Originally Posted by As I See It

If Sharpe and Griffin were seen as equals, I hear you. But that's not the case. Now, Sharpe and Daniels? Maybe...and that's a big maybe.

You have to draft value when you have a lottery selection. Ever hear of guy named Jaxson Hayes? Value trumps personalities every day of the week unless the player is an out-and-out lowlife. There is no indication that Sharpe is that. Even if worse comes to worse, you make him Birmingham's problem until you can move him (at the Pelican's price).

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You're arguing what you would do. I'm trying to predict what Griffin will do. If you draft a guy to potentially trade him down the line, you draft a guy that you're comfortable with keeping if the other guy you're coveting doesn't fall to your potential trade partner. I don't think you draft a guy that you don't want to deal with and don't want on your team.

My guess is, Griffin doesn't want to deal with Sharpe and his entourage, and doesn't want to pass up other prospects that either he or his team is high on for only the potential to be able to unload Sharpe on someone else.

So either they swap picks with someone and drop to a position in the draft that they're comfortable with, or they just go ahead and pick one of the available guys that they're targeting.

As for Dyson vs Griffin, I've heard that the coaching staff is high on AJ. Maybe they're higher on Dyson than Griffin, I don't know. I haven't heard what they thought of Dyson, I've just heard that the coaches like Griffin. It may be that they see Dyson as more of a long term project than Griffin, even if Dyson's ceiling is higher. I don't know.

Dyson's biggest skill set that could contribute right away is perimeter defense. He's got very good length and very good lateral movement for someone with his length. He doesn't fill your other need though, for three point shooting. Griffin seems to fill that need really well, his issue is that he won't give you much in the way of perimeter defense. So perhaps it's as simple as which need does the Pelicans staff think is the bigger need? Or perhaps do they think that Griffin's potential for improving his perimeter defense is better than Dyson's potential for perimeter offense.

Or perhaps they really do love Dyson, they've just been keeping a lid on it, hoping someone doesn't jump ahead of them and take him, and maybe the Griffin stuff is a smokescreen.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

And when you have to pay Washington 4/70 to keep him? Happy to do that for a backup 4?

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For PJ? In that range, for sure. I?ve long felt that?given Zion?s injury history?the Pels should invest in a back up PF who can start for stretches and keep the team viable. Here, Pels essentially shift the 2nd contract question from Hayes to Washington, who is a better fit, and pick up some much needed size, shooting and defensive flexibility off the bench in the backcourt.

I?m not as fixated on the 2nd contract issue. A lot can happen in a year or two to help make that determination. I wouldn?t make decisions just to avoid having to confront it.

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Originally Posted by new city champ

For PJ? In that range, for sure. I?ve long felt that?given Zion?s injury history?the Pels should invest in a back up PF who can start for stretches and keep the team viable. Here, Pels essentially shift the 2nd contract question from Hayes to Washington, who is a better fit, and pick up some much needed size, shooting and defensive flexibility off the bench in the backcourt.

I?m not as fixated on the 2nd contract issue. A lot can happen in a year or two to help make that determination. I wouldn?t make decisions just to avoid having to confront it.

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And then you just let Nance go, or pay him 11-15 too?

You have to plan out steps years down the road. If you are the Warriors, maybe not, but the Pels arent gonna have three 30+ mil guys, and another 3-5 12+ million dollar guys. With that trade, you are basically including Nance in the deal too because it assures you cant keep him. Thats how you have to look at trades, as dominoes. You cant look at them in a vacuum. Pels arent paying 4 bigs. You do that trade, fine, but Nance wont be back after next year. With that calculus in mind, I would pass on that deal.

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

You're arguing what you would do. I'm trying to predict what Griffin will do. If you draft a guy to potentially trade him down the line, you draft a guy that you're comfortable with keeping if the other guy you're coveting doesn't fall to your potential trade partner. I don't think you draft a guy that you don't want to deal with and don't want on your team.

My guess is, Griffin doesn't want to deal with Sharpe and his entourage, and doesn't want to pass up other prospects that either he or his team is high on for only the potential to be able to unload Sharpe on someone else.

So either they swap picks with someone and drop to a position in the draft that they're comfortable with, or they just go ahead and pick one of the available guys that they're targeting.

As for Dyson vs Griffin, I've heard that the coaching staff is high on AJ. Maybe they're higher on Dyson than Griffin, I don't know. I haven't heard what they thought of Dyson, I've just heard that the coaches like Griffin. It may be that they see Dyson as more of a long term project than Griffin, even if Dyson's ceiling is higher. I don't know.

Dyson's biggest skill set that could contribute right away is perimeter defense. He's got very good length and very good lateral movement for someone with his length. He doesn't fill your other need though, for three point shooting. Griffin seems to fill that need really well, his issue is that he won't give you much in the way of perimeter defense. So perhaps it's as simple as which need does the Pelicans staff think is the bigger need? Or perhaps do they think that Griffin's potential for improving his perimeter defense is better than Dyson's potential for perimeter offense.

Or perhaps they really do love Dyson, they've just been keeping a lid on it, hoping someone doesn't jump ahead of them and take him, and maybe the Griffin stuff is a smokescreen.

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No...not quite, I'm arguing what any competent GM would do. If you can't manage personalities, you're in the wrong business.

You apparently are a 'needs' drafter. That will get you into a lot of trouble. There was a time when Portland needed a big man to anchor the middle. Long story short, they drafted a guy named Sam Bowie who played about 500 total games, and with the next pick, Chicago drafted a guy named Michael Jordan. The rest is history.

Nailed it.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

A guy can threaten all he wants prior to the draft. After you take him, you got him for five years. They have no leverage. I wouldn?t care about any of those threats. One of the other top 7 guys would prefer not to come here and I guarantee Griff would take him if he is on the board

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Mathurin

You can’t project that outcome with that degree of certitude. Think Nance works best as small-ball 5 and like line ups with him and PJ together in the front court. I’d actually think it more likely that Pels jettison Graham and Temple in the next year (15-16 million). And I’d be happy to move Washington and Ogbaji into slots vacated (long term) by Hayes, Graham and Temple. That doesn’t have to happen right this second for the deal to work, but it’s certainly a feasible result.

Washington can give you 12/6 off the bench, shoots about 38% from the arc, and has the combo of athleticism, weight and wingspan (7’+) to switch on defense. His contract situation is very similar to Hayes’ except that he’s a better player and a much better fit in the front court rotations. It’s possible he’d be a long term fit on the right deal.

Zions new deal will eat up that money saved by Graham, Temple, and Hayes. I would love to be paying BI, Zion, and CJ 90+ mil and also have the team willing to pay PJ Washington, Nance, and Jonas another 45-50 mil. Plus have the money for Herb, which isnt far away, plus use the MLE occassionally, etc. Unfortunately, that isnt us. I like Washington as a player but small market teams dont pay multiple bench players double digit millions, especially with a top heavy payroll.

I love Dort too - but its the same reason I wouldnt do the 8 for 12 and Dort trade.

You’re sure JV is a long term number? CJ even? Hard to see that far ahead—injuries, age conflicts. Get the players and trust your FO to sort it. Pels haven’t always been the best at that, but the 5-year plan went out with the Soviet Union…

Well, it's official. I now have no idea who I want to end up drafting. Soon as I think one thing, somebody convinces me we should do something else. Then, rinse and repeat. I know when I'm over my head...so I'm just gonna sit back...listen to you guys...and say, "Yep...great choice !!", when it's all said & done.

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Originally Posted by The Dud

Well, it's official. I now have no idea who I want to end up drafting. Soon as I think one thing, somebody convinces me we should do something else. Then, rinse and repeat. I know when I'm over my head...so I'm just gonna sit back...listen to you guys...and say, "Yep...great choice !!", when it's all said & done.

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Luckily, I don’t think we can mess up the pick given the options available. Could mess up a trade, but hopefully we’ve learned from past mistakes

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Originally Posted by The Dud

Well, it's official. I now have no idea who I want to end up drafting. Soon as I think one thing, somebody convinces me we should do something else. Then, rinse and repeat. I know when I'm over my head...so I'm just gonna sit back...listen to you guys...and say, "Yep...great choice !!", when it's all said & done.

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What almost everyone will do. The cycle of fandom. Dont beat yourself up lol

It's going to be hilarious when the Pels come out of this draft with an experienced role player, ability to stay below the tax and use all of the MLE, multiple future draft picks, and end up not picking anyone in this draft ;)

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Originally Posted by As I See It

No...not quite, I'm arguing what any competent GM would do. If you can't manage personalities, you're in the wrong business.

You apparently are a 'needs' drafter. That will get you into a lot of trouble. There was a time when Portland needed a big man to anchor the middle. Long story short, they drafted a guy named Sam Bowie who played about 500 total games, and with the next pick, Chicago drafted a guy named Michael Jordan. The rest is history.

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Griffin can't manage personalities. I think the Zion business has proven that. If you think that makes him incompetent, fine by me.

But once again you're confusing what I think Griffin is going to do with what I'd do as a GM. I'm not saying I'm high on Griffin, I'm not. But I've heard that the Pelicans are high on Griffin. So if they're high on Griffin and they like him better than Dyson, and if push comes to shove and they can't trade down on the pick, then I think that they draft Griffin, even if Sharpe and Dyson are available. Unless they can trade down.

Now maybe they're higher on Dyson than Griffin and a lot of this is just a smoke screen. So in that case, they draft Dyson.

The one thing I'm fairly sure about is they they aren't going to draft Sharpe unless they have a solid deal in place and they know they have a trade set in stone.

Now I know you guys think that Sharpe is the second coming. I know that Sharpe thinks that he's the second coming. I'm just not sure that the NBA front offices out there are quite as enamored with him. Especially if it's true that he was a bit underwhelming with some of the workouts with the teams that he deigned to work out for.

In that case, I don't think that the Pelicans necessarily think that he's that much better a player than Griffin, that they would be crazy for passing up on him.

And I think that the other Griffin, David, is very sincere in his desire to cultivate a family atmosphere, and he's actively looking for players that will fit in with the locker room. And if they don't think that Sharpe is the sure thing that a lot of you do, and they don't think that a lot of other GM's think he's a sure thing, then my guess is they'd rather pass on him and just take the guy they want to take.

As to what I'd do, it's fairly simple. Pray that Murray falls to me and then SPRINT up to the podium and draft him. Failing that, hope that Mathurin falls to me and then walk briskly up to the podium and draft him.

If Dyson and/or Sharpe falls to me, I stall heading up to the podium so I can hear as many trade down proposals as possible. If nothing comes, I shrug and draft Sochan.

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

But once again you're confusing what I think Griffin is going to do with what I'd do as a GM. I'm not saying I'm high on Griffin, I'm not. But I've heard that the Pelicans are high on Griffin. So if they're high on Griffin and they like him better than Dyson, and if push comes to shove and they can't trade down on the pick, then I think that they draft Griffin, even if Sharpe and Dyson are available. Unless they can trade down.

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I think you?re wrong

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

It's going to be hilarious when the Pels come out of this draft with an experienced role player, ability to stay below the tax and use all of the MLE, multiple future draft picks, and end up not picking anyone in this draft ;)

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Lol wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. I’m nearly positive based on what I’ve heard that they are definitely making a pick in the second round. A ton of guys they like back there. Not as exciting as a lottery guy tho obviously lol

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Again, Griffs issue with Sharpe was never his preference on where to play. He always questioned his competitiveness

ALL these guys are trying to pick their spots. Every single one.

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I mean, duh. Don?t we all choose where we work in normal non elite athletes jobs? Why would they hope for any different?

I promise you more than one player drafted to or traded here has gone “aww ********. New Orleans? Do I have to?” And then smiled at the presser and said they are happy to be here. Love the city. Etc.

And yet, when fans hear that a guy might not prefer their team, he is drama and should be taken off the board.

People have preferences. I highly doubt Duncan was praying SA won the lottery. If you are a good franchise, you show a kid why you are a great place for him. But of course some kids would rather go higher. Others to places with more PT. Others to better cities. Labeling the ones you hear about drama, when they all do it is just confusing to me.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I highly doubt Duncan was praying SA won the lottery.

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Huh? San Antonio was already a good team who had one bad season because of an injury to David Robinson, one of the best players in the NBA. Why wouldn't Tim Duncan want to slide into that situation?

And yet, he almost left them for Orlando even after they won a title

Wanted to be in South, on East coast. All these guys have random little ones things. Point is, you can’t be all sensitive and not take a guy because you aren’t his top choice. That’s a weak, loser mentality

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

Griffin can't manage personalities. I think the Zion business has proven that. .

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Oh, but Mr Frey, how can you be so wrong?

Three years ago, everybody and his mother-in-law said Zion's days in NOLA were numbered. Three short years later, Zion claims he wants to be here and is anxious to get a deal done. CJ wanted to be traded to New Orleans and said so. Now that he's tasted the atmosphere around the team, Larry Nance, Jr. now wants New Orleans...longterm. BI re-upped with no strings attached. Hart and NAW were heart-broken that they were traded. The team enjoys playing with one another and for Willie.

I'd say, that. after a rocky start where all the amateur GM's wanted his butt gone, David Griffin and Company has buiilt exactly what he set out to build...a family atmosphere..a collegial workplace...a REAL team. Griffin (and Langdon) has accomplished what Bob Bass, Allan Bristow, Jeff Bower, Dell Demps couldn't.

Will it last? There are some, like you, who doubt it. I say, "We'll see."

Dyson Daniels just cancelled his workout with SAC. Can't wait for Thursday

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

Dyson Daniels just cancelled his workout with SAC. Can't wait for Thursday

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And yet nobody will assume because he has a promise ahead of them, in the top 3. Curious.

Is Daniels a bad kid now too? Drama? Or is it fine because he did it to the Kings not us? And what if he is doing it to them, and does it to the others too to ensure he gets to us? Best kid ever?

Bias.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

And yet nobody will assume because he has a promise ahead of them, in the top 3. Curious.

Is Daniels a bad kid now too? Drama? Or is it fine because he did it to the Kings not us? And what if he is doing it to them, and does it to the others too to ensure he gets to us? Best kid ever?

Bias.

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Do people realize these kids want to go to places with a fast track to starting immediately

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Do people realize these kids want to go to places with a fast track to starting immediately

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Sometimes its that. Sometimes its coach play style. A friend or former teammate. Region. Lot of different things. Same reason we all choose different jobs, different places to live, different friends, etc.

But this darn kids better just go where they are told and like it!!!

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Oh, but Mr Frey, how can you be so wrong?

Three years ago, everybody and his mother-in-law said Zion's days in NOLA were numbered. Three short years later, Zion claims he wants to be here and is anxious to get a deal done. CJ wanted to be traded to New Orleans and said so. Now that he's tasted the atmosphere around the team, Larry Nance, Jr. now wants New Orleans...longterm. BI re-upped with no strings attached. Hart and NAW were heart-broken that they were traded. The team enjoys playing with one another and for Willie.

I'd say, that. after a rocky start where all the amateur GM's wanted his butt gone, David Griffin and Company has buiilt exactly what he set out to build...a family atmosphere..a collegial workplace...a REAL team. Griffin (and Langdon) has accomplished what Bob Bass, Allan Bristow, Jeff Bower, Dell Demps couldn't.

Will it last? There are some, like you, who doubt it. I say, "We'll see."

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Hope you're right. I'm chalking up the "family atmosphere" more to Willie Green then the piano man.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Do people realize these kids want to go to places with a fast track to starting immediately

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I think that Sharpe would be more than happy to land on a team that won't ever make him actually play basketball. I just don't think that he's a big fan.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Or is it fine because he did it to the Kings

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Yes, it's this.

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

I think that Sharpe would be more than happy to land on a team that won't ever make him actually play basketball. I just don't think that he's a big fan.

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This dumb

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

This dumb

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He clearly knows the kid and has spent plenty of time with him. Lots of convos. Not like he would just be forming an opinion like that with no direct knowledge. C'mon

I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t understand that Sharpe reclassified

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t understand that Sharpe reclassified

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When people start with the conclusion, they find the info that supports their conclusion extremely easily. But somehow tend to miss the info that does not support the conclusion.

NBA Draft Cabin Fever seems to be reaching peak levels. The discussion has devolved more and more as the draft gets closer.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

And yet nobody will assume because he has a promise ahead of them, in the top 3. Curious.

Is Daniels a bad kid now too? Drama? Or is it fine because he did it to the Kings not us? And what if he is doing it to them, and does it to the others too to ensure he gets to us? Best kid ever?

Bias.

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I'm curious if maybe Houston gave Dyson a promise since they have had interest in him.

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

I'm curious if maybe Houston gave Dyson a promise since they have had interest in him.

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I really hope this is sarcasm.

I think it's going to be pretty funny if Sharpe is there at 8, Griff drafts him, and the reports come out almost immediately that the Pels are thrilled because they were hoping he'd fall to them.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

And yet nobody will assume because he has a promise ahead of them, in the top 3. Curious.

Is Daniels a bad kid now too? Drama? Or is it fine because he did it to the Kings not us? And what if he is doing it to them, and does it to the others too to ensure he gets to us? Best kid ever?

Bias.

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I don't think this makes any of kids bad or divas, just an unfortunate sign of the times.

But whereas this doesn't affect a decision on most of them, it would take Sharpe off my board at #8 (unless a trade is already in place).

With the others I have college/G-League/overseas game tape to fall back on. With Sharpe I just have High School, AAU, & college practices to get a feel for his tangibles & more importantly intangibles.
It doesn't make him a bad kid but it does make him too much of an unknown for my liking. I'm really not looking forward to when they allow high schoolers to enter the draft again for this reason.