Playoffs Thread

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Do you have anything that would indicate that it was reported incorrectly by the usual insiders? I believe Woj even reported the Knicks were not willing to part with much in the way of assets for AD. Unfortunately, we had no other real suitors than the Lakers given that AD and Klutch contaminated the waters.

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AD did his best job ti sabotage our trade and get as little value for a top 5 could get. When Paul George gets a better trade out than AD. It's criminal.

https://www.change.org/p/nba-fans-ky...a-a9c397bf9ea9

lmfao

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Originally Posted by Taker597

AD did his best job ti sabotage our trade and get as little value for a top 5 could get. When Paul George gets a better trade out than AD. It's criminal.

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It was PG and KL.
OKC knew this and knew that the Clippers couldn't get Leonard without PG and made them pay.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

It was PG and KL.
OKC knew this and knew that the Clippers couldn't get Leonard without PG and made them pay.

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Exactly. People need to remember that that was not just a raw, assets-for-PG trade in a vacuum.

That trade was done precisely because it was the requirement to acquire Kawhi. Kawhi had told them he was not signing there unless they did it.

Therefore the trade was for PG and Kawhi both. Which makes it make a lot more sense.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

I don?t think it, I guarantee it.

Prior to Lebron going there (for Hollywood, not basketball reasons) nobody wanted to go to LA unless they didn?t have anywhere else to go (see Luol Deng). There is a reason that there was a drought for so long between the Showtime Lakers to Shaq/Kobe and Kobe to Lebron, nobody wants to go there. Now with Lebron there they can?t afford super stars unless those guys go there on the cheap (and we can see that none are willing to do that). Nothing about that front office or coaching staff gives me (or anyone else for that matter) that their operations aren?t held together by anything but gum, string, and Lebron?s knees. Nothing there exudes confidence past Lebron.

If you want to say that they will get a star to put next to AD need I remind you that stars didn?t come to New Orleans to play with him unless it was via trade.Nobody is going out of their way to team up with AD, and even if they did, they would have to go there via free agency as the Lakers? assets are tied up to the Pels. So putting a Superstar next to AD won?t he easy (unless Klutch will do the Lakers a solid and tank a players value). If AD doesn?t have a Super Star next to him he will be the New Orleans? version of AD, and while he might be a threat, he is hardly a guy you want to build a franchise around.

So yeah, I?m at a good place with those Laker picks, and would be fine if you pinned this post of me saying that 2 of those Laker picks will be lottery picks.

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When did the Lakers stop being the marquee team of the league? LeBron is still top 3 and chose the Lakers when they had not even a star level player. Why is that you think? As I mentioned Bradley Beal just purchased a house out here in LA. Chris Paul still lives out here and the off season along with many other players. Kawhi won a championship in Toronto and left to be in the LA market. The Lakers won't have any problems attracting a superstar in free agency.

You are missing the details. No one went out of there way to team up with Davis in New Orleans. Just like no one went out of their way to team up with Paul in New Orleans. I love that city but it's not a market/team that will attract the cream of the crop. IMO it's less about the city and more about market size and team success. Hell no bodily's breaking their necks to get to Milwaukee to play with Antetokounmpo. Maybe the games greatest player couldn't attract any stars to Cleveland.

Notice you mentioned a lot of marquee players have homes in LA, but when given the chance to sign with the Marquee NBA franchise over the last 6 years, nobody rode to Gondor’s aid. Players will continue to buy homes there, that doesn’t mean that they will want to play for the Lakers. Heck, you pointed it out yourself, The Claw had the chance to go to LA and he took it by signing with the Clippers. Had he wanted to play for the Lakers he could have as well, but he didn’t. I’m just saying, if it wasn’t for a career in the entertainment business Lebron probably wouldn’t be there either. So yes, I feel very confident, nay, I guarantee that the picks the Lakers conveyed to the Pels will be lottery picks.

Ain’t nobody rushing to LA to go play with some Beta when Lebron retires, just like nobody rushed to New Orleans to play with him here.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I don't believe this is accurate.

Firstly, Lebron has never been the type of guy who signs smaller deals to free up space for a 3rd star. There are few things you can say have been as constant throughout Lebron's career as his desire to maximise his income. If there is any possible way for him to get LA to give him another max, he will get them to give him another max and that's what he will sign. Lebron is not doing a Tim Duncan discount; there has never been any indication in his entire career that he would be willing to do such a thing.

Secondly, you say that they'll transition to the next core group by then. My question is, where is this group supposed to come from? They can't trade for promising young players: they have nobody under contract long term and no picks. They can't draft those young players, they have no picks. They're not getting those guys flocking to them in FA because they have no money and, as Lebron ages over the next few seasons, there's no real reason to go there; players don't flock to play with AD, as we've seen.

You can argue that maybe players will just go there because it's LA, but then you have to ask why nobody was doing that for the last 7 years before Lebron showed up. If players want to go to a destination city to live the high life, they're just going to go to Miami, which at least has some good young prospects and has been consistently good for years.

Thirdly, while we've seen freeing up cap space happen, there are circumstances where that's harder than usual. It's easier to free up cap if you have a few overpaid middle-tier players and you can attach picks to move them, or you can can stretch contracts, or whatever. It's very difficult to do that when you have two separate guys earning over $40m a year: we call this the Westbrook/Harden dilemma.

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Actually LeBron left money on the table when he formed the big 3 in Miami. All 3 players did. While it wasn't a significant amount if he didn't it would not have been possible. Which shows awareness on Lebron's part. That was prime James as well. As it relates to basketball I'd say LeBron is one of the most knowledgeable players to every play the game. I highly doubt as he chases greatness he'll hold up the Lakers cap situation just to make a point. Because clearly he doesn't need the money.

That star player will come from free agency. As I mentioned of now James is the only player signed(player option) after next season. I think it's a far gone conclusion they re-sign Davis. It's said Davis will play out the option year next year. That will give the Lakers the ability to sign players and go over the cap to extend Davis. Money isn't an object to the Lakers they are only limited by the cap. Having Davis' rights will go a long way into avoiding the cap limits.

People keep saying nobody wanted to go there before LeBron. Completely leaving out that LeBron wanted to go there and Anthony just forced his way there. Seriously the logical dodging going on here sometimes. In the past 2 season 2 top 20 players either via free agency or forced trade just chose the Lakers. This isn't even bringing up Kawhi who just left a title team to go out to LA. Some of the argument here are so disingenous. When was the last time a top 50 player choose us?

What terrible contract are the Lakers sitting on? Green at 15mil has been an overpay but that's expiring after next year when the big free agents are available. What's going to stop the Lakers from signing potentially Giannis, PG13, Kawhi, Griffin, Paul, Lowry, Hayward, Drummond, Holiday, DeRozen, Aldridge? Some of these guys won't even command a max contract or may even leave money on the table to get a ring in LA. That's just the top of the 2021 list. The Lakers would have to completely strike out on two (maybe 3)consecutive free agency classes, and have LeBron fade significantly for those picks to yield anything other than late 1st.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Notice you mentioned a lot of marquee players have homes in LA, but when given the chance to sign with the Marquee NBA franchise over the last 6 years, nobody rode to Gondor’s aid. Players will continue to buy homes there, that doesn’t mean that they will want to play for the Lakers. Heck, you pointed it out yourself, The Claw had the chance to go to LA and he took it by signing with the Clippers. Had he wanted to play for the Lakers he could have as well, but he didn’t. I’m just saying, if it wasn’t for a career in the entertainment business Lebron probably wouldn’t be there either. So yes, I feel very confident, nay, I guarantee that the picks the Lakers conveyed to the Pels will be lottery picks.

Ain’t nobody rushing to LA to go play with some Beta when Lebron retires, just like nobody rushed to New Orleans to play with him here.

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Remember when LeBron James signed with the Lakers? Then you remember when Anthony Davis forced a trade to that same Lakers team? Why are people acting like this didn't just happen. Forget what happened with the Lakers the past couple of years when nobody wanted to play with a fading Kobe Bryant and Mitch Kupchak set money on fire by signing Deng and Movgov. Kobe is gone(rip) and Mitch is no longer running the show.

Yeah, Mitch is gone, and in his place is Rob Pelinka, and in the bench you have Frank Vogel. The Lakers making the finals is more a testament to how amazing Lebron is than how ready people are to join the Lakers. Lebron went there so that he could get more fully into the entertainment industry, they just so happened to also have a basketball team he could play on as he sought out entertainment opportunities. This isn’t some “the Lakers are back” moment. Heck, even there bloggers admit that the future is far from clear as to the direction of the team (they will gladly admit that Lebron is good, and they will ride him as long as his legs don’t fall off).

Anthony Davis and Klutch tanked his trade value all so he could get to LA and get a part in Space Jam. He had to switch agents before he could remember that LA was a city.

It's been pretty much accepted by the vast majority of people that Lebron went to LA for business and lifestyle reasons, rather than because he had any great personal love of the Lakers. Why you keep pretending that he was lured there by the mystique of the Lakers rather than making a calculated business move that the vast majority of lesser players never even have to think about is beyond me.

AD went there specifically for Lebron.

When Lebron is 37 and the Lakers have no cap space, they will not be signing all the big names in basketball. I just don't think that's even a controversial thing to say.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

It's been pretty much accepted by the vast majority of people that Lebron went to LA for business and lifestyle reasons, rather than because he had any great personal love of the Lakers. Why you keep pretending that he was lured there by the mystique of the Lakers rather than making a calculated business move that the vast majority of lesser players never even have to think about is beyond me.

AD went there specifically for Lebron.

When Lebron is 37 and the Lakers have no cap space, they will not be signing all the big names in basketball. I just don't think that's even a controversial thing to say.

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You are making my case for me. Whether it be business or the "love of the Lakers" he had 30 teams available and he chose the Lakers. Not to mention he could have pick the Clippers if all he wanted was LA they were in a much better position to be winners at the time.

So nobody wants to play for the Lakers expect for S. O'Neal, K. Malone, G. Payton, S. Nash, D. Howard(in his prime), C.Paul, L. James, A. Davis. Got it.

When LeBron is 37 the Lakers will literally only have LeBron under contract. How TF is that no cap space?<--- real question.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

You are making my case for me. Whether it be business or the "love of the Lakers" he had 30 teams available and he chose the Lakers. Not to mention he could have pick the Clippers if all he wanted was LA they were in a much better position to be winners at the time.

So nobody wants to play for the Lakers expect for S. O'Neal, K. Malone, G. Payton, S. Nash, D. Howard(in his prime), C.Paul, L. James, A. Davis. Got it.

When LeBron is 37 the Lakers will literally only have LeBron under contract. How TF is that no cap space?<--- real question.

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Me: Why would you assume that stars will flock to the Lakers when nobody signed there for a solid 7 or 8 years, and the only reason anyone eventually did is cause they were shooting a movie?

You: Aha! But what about all these people that wanted to go there 10+ years ago? Gotcha.

:rolleyes:

Wait, so when Lebron is 37 the Lakers will only have him on the roster? What are they going to do with AD? They will probably resign him, and when that happens there goes their cap space.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Wait, so when Lebron is 37 the Lakers will only have him on the roster? What are they going to do with AD? They will probably resign him, and when that happens there goes their cap space.

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I believe the logic that da THRONE is using is that AD will opt in next season, hit free agency, during which time the Lakers can sign other people with his salary not technically on the books, and then re-sign him after using bird rights to go over the cap. I don't actually know if this would even work or not because I forget how cap-holds work, but I think that's the logic da THRONE is using.

The issue with this is that I doubt LA will want to risk AD entering FA, and will probably just offer him the largest extension they can manage next season while he's under contract and lock him up early. This will completely kill that avenue of acquiring cap.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Me: Why would you assume that stars will flock to the Lakers when nobody signed there for a solid 7 or 8 years, and the only reason anyone eventually did is cause they were shooting a movie?

You: Aha! But what about all these people that wanted to go there 10+ years ago? Gotcha.

:rolleyes:

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I already told you nobody wanted to be Kobe's teammate. Especially the aging Kobe. That's not the case with LeBron. Management completely missed handled free agency and gave away big money to bad players and they never recovered. That can happen and yes superstars don't want to go to bad teams. But what you are failing to acknowledge is the Lakers are no longer a bad team. They have arguably the game best player and another all NBA player on the team.

You talk about me bringing up 10 years ago, but you're refusing the accept the Lakers are about to be World champs. Are you seriously telling me that will have zero impact on players especially the top free agents of the next 3 classes?

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I already told you nobody wanted to be Kobe's teammate. Especially the aging Kobe. That's not the case with LeBron. Management completely missed handled free agency and gave away big money to bad players and they never recovered. That can happen and yes superstars don't want to go to bad teams. But what you are failing to acknowledge is the Lakers are no longer a bad team. They have arguably the game best player and another all NBA player on the team.

You talk about me bringing up 10 years ago, but you're refusing the accept the Lakers are about to be World champs. Are you seriously telling me that will have zero impact on players especially the top free agents of the next 3 classes?

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Your entire premise relies on the assumption that Lebron will sign for a budget-friendly deal and that the Lakers won't extend AD but will instead wait for him to hit FA so that they can use the cap up before re-signing him. There is very little reason to assume either of these things are going to be true, let alone both.

I'm not saying it will have ''zero impact'' on the next 3 classes of free agents. I'm telling you that this upcoming class of free agents isn't particularly good and the Lakers are capped out so it will not matter this year what that perception is, and then I'm telling you that unless those very big ifs happen as mentioned above, the Lakers still will not have the cap to sign anyone major in the years following that.

The Lakers Mystique doesn't allow you to flout the cap rules, I'm sorry. I know that runs contrary to this idea that Lebron and AD are about to pick up Giannis and embark on a 5-peat or whatever, but it's true.

As a side note, just to get back on the playoffs that are currently happening:

It's so funny how bad Kendrick Nunn is versus the narrative that's been built around him this year. He's a 25 year old rookie whose entire redeeming strength was that he allowed Goran Dragic to get some rest, and people really tried to built a ROTY challenger narrative around it. Amazing.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

When did the Lakers stop being the marquee team of the league? LeBron is still top 3 and choose the Lakers when they had not even a star level player. Why is that you think? As I mentioned Bradley Beal just purchased a house out here in LA. Chris Paul still lives out here and the off season along with many other players. Kawhi won a championship in Toronto and left to be in the LA market. The Lakers won't have any problems attracting a superstar in free agency.

You are missing the details. No one went out of there way to team up with Davis in New Orleans. Just like no one went out of their way to team up with Paul in New Orleans. I love that city but it's not a market/team that will attract the cream of the crop. IMO it's less about the city and more about market size and team success. Hell no bodies breaking their necks to get to Milwaukee to play with Antetokounmpo. Maybe the games greatest player couldn't attract any stars to Cleveland.

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A league in which 25 teams serve as 5 teams is not a sustainable business model. World is moving to a stage where people care about their team and ONLY their team. This situation is one reason why TV ratings are down. If people want to watch guys play with their buddies, they can go to their local YMCA.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Exactly. People need to remember that that was not just a raw, assets-for-PG trade in a vacuum.

That trade was done precisely because it was the requirement to acquire Kawhi. Kawhi had told them he was not signing there unless they did it.

Therefore the trade was for PG and Kawhi both. Which makes it make a lot more sense.

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Actually, it's pretty unprecedented that one team can acquire a haul of assets equal to two star players when they're only giving up one.

Historic levels of leverage that OKC enjoyed

The King 'be class-less' (and one of the most prolific whiners of all time)!!!

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Actually, it's pretty unprecedented that one team can acquire a haul of assets equal to two star players when they're only giving up one.

Historic levels of leverage that OKC enjoyed

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Whether there's precedent or not is hardly the point. If one of the five best players in basketball comes to your GM and says ''I will absolutely sign with you if you pull the trigger on this trade'', that GM has good reason to make that trade. Even if it's a big one. Because they're not making it for the trade itself, necessarily, they're making it for the trade plus that top five player.

That makes complete sense regardless of whether or not there's precedent.

Also love this whole ''Jimmy Butler is an anti-analytics player, analytics hate him'' narrative that's being pushed.

Analytics love Jimmy Butler. I know that for a lot of people analytics are just ''shoot threes'', but that's generally just because people don't know what they're talking about. Butler puts a ton of pressure on the rim and gets a ton of free throws (his FTr is absurd), and is a fantastic defender. He's top 10 in 5 year RAPM, and was 12th in PIPM this year.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Whether there's precedent or not is hardly the point. If one of the five best players in basketball comes to your GM and says ''I will absolutely sign with you if you pull the trigger on this trade'', that GM has good reason to make that trade. Even if it's a big one. Because they're not making it for the trade itself, necessarily, they're making it for the trade plus that top five player.

That makes complete sense regardless of whether or not there's precedent.

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But why did OKC get to benefit? Did they hold the Clippers over the barrell because the knew they were trading out 2 stars effectively?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Also love this whole ''Jimmy Butler is an anti-analytics player, analytics hate him'' narrative that's being pushed.

Analytics love Jimmy Butler. I know that for a lot of people analytics are just ''shoot threes'', but that's generally just because people don't know what they're talking about. Butler puts a ton of pressure on the rim and gets a ton of free throws (his FTr is absurd), and is a fantastic defender. He's top 10 in 5 year RAPM, and was 12th in PIPM this year.

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I didn't realise that was a common narrative against him. The main one I heard is that he was a hard ****** teammate and to lesser extent a bad three point shooter.

Analytics should never be the sole synonym for 'a good three point shooter'

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Originally Posted by AusPel

But why did OKC get to benefit? Did they hold the Clippers over the barrell because the knew they were trading out 2 stars effectively?

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Obviously I can't say for sure because I wasn't in on the negotiations. Maybe Presti got the impression the Clips were desperate, and applied the pressure. Maybe Presti just high-balled them as a negotiation tactic and a desperate Clippers team accepted it. No idea.

But that reason (the double acquisition) is the explanation for why the Clippers would make that move.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

I didn't realise that was a common narrative against him. The main one I heard is that he was a hard ****** teammate and to lesser extent a bad three point shooter.

Analytics should never be the sole synonym for 'a good three point shooter'

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It's not a huge narrative among people who know what they're talking about, but there's some talk of it. Mike Breen was saying that Butler is an ''anti-analytics'' player on the broadcast, and if you go to Twitter and just search ''Jimmy Butler analytics'' or ''Butler analytics'' or whatever, you find tons of people saying ''Did Butler make any threes tonight? Where those analytics people at?'' and stuff like that.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

It's not a huge narrative among people who know what they're talking about, but there's some talk of it. Mike Breen was saying that Butler is an ''anti-analytics'' player on the broadcast, and if you go to Twitter and just search ''Jimmy Butler analytics'' or ''Butler analytics'' or whatever, you find tons of people saying ''Did Butler make any threes tonight? Where those analytics people at?'' and stuff like that.

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Ah yes, good old thorough Twitter analysis

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Ah yes, good old thorough Twitter analysis

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Oh for sure, I'm not saying that this is like, The Dominant Perspective of the Informed Man or anything. Just that it's a popular talking point.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

You mad that a farm team is being a farm team?

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I guess in the end this is the right way to look at it.

Hell, even if Zion does get the conditioning down and becomes a great difference making player we are likely just getting him ready for some other team. Hell maybe the lakers!

We suck and the Lakers are about to hoist their 17th(or whatever) title. Ugh this isn't working out well.....

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Originally Posted by tacosman

I guess in the end this is the right way to look at it.

Hell, even if Zion does get the conditioning down and becomes a great difference making player we are likely just getting him ready for some other team. Hell maybe the lakers!

We suck and the Lakers are about to hoist their 17th(or whatever) title. Ugh this isn't working out well.....

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Actually a bunch of the Lakers titles belong in Minnesota so as far as I'm concerned LA doesn't get them.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I don't believe this is accurate.

Firstly, Lebron has never been the type of guy who signs smaller deals to free up space for a 3rd star. There are few things you can say have been as constant throughout Lebron's career as his desire to maximise his income. If there is any possible way for him to get LA to give him another max, he will get them to give him another max and that's what he will sign. Lebron is not doing a Tim Duncan discount; there has never been any indication in his entire career that he would be willing to do such a thing.

Secondly, you say that they'll transition to the next core group by then. My question is, where is this group supposed to come from? They can't trade for promising young players: they have nobody under contract long term and no picks. They can't draft those young players, they have no picks. They're not getting those guys flocking to them in FA because they have no money and, as Lebron ages over the next few seasons, there's no real reason to go there; players don't flock to play with AD, as we've seen.

You can argue that maybe players will just go there because it's LA, but then you have to ask why nobody was doing that for the last 7 years before Lebron showed up. If players want to go to a destination city to live the high life, they're just going to go to Miami, which at least has some good young prospects and has been consistently good for years.

Thirdly, while we've seen freeing up cap space happen, there are circumstances where that's harder than usual. It's easier to free up cap if you have a few overpaid middle-tier players and you can attach picks to move them, or you can can stretch contracts, or whatever. It's very difficult to do that when you have two separate guys earning over $40m a year: we call this the Westbrook/Harden dilemma.

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the problem with this viewpoint is while it's possible what you are saying will play out that way, we know the following:

-The Lakers are the premiere franchise in the entire nba
-AD alone from ages 30-33 is still a good foundational piece to at least be average+ when motivated, making the draft picks less valuable. A 44-38 team doesn't have a good draft pick attached to it
-You keep referencing a 6 year period(really more like 4 where they were very bad and those picks would be where we want) where they were really down, but
that's cherry picking even worse than what the other side is doing. The entire history of the lakers franchise going back to kareem is them attracting elite players through non-draft means. From Kareem to
Shaq to Lebron

worse, the Lakers are about to hoist another trophy in a few days. Next year, they are going to be the favorites(not against the field, but better odds than every other team) to win another title. We're watching this *right now* and that sucks. It sucks for everyone who doesn't like the Lakers. I mean the whole point of this is to win nba titles, and the Lakers are in the process of doing it *right now* and have a damn good chance of doing it next year too. And you're telling me that despite the enormity of how bad that sucks we should look forward to how their situation in 2024 or so may not be great? Nevermind that they are the premiere franchise in the entire nba and have a history of attracting literally the greatest players in nba history?

If you look 5 years in the future at any point, the Lakers are almost always going to have the brightest future.....because they are the lakers.

You can't do that 2 years out, but in this case that also sucks for us anti-lakers people because 2 years from now Anthony Davis will still be one of the top 5 players in the nba(hell he might be top 2 as harden and durant will be older than him) and Lebron will not be as elite but will likely still be a difference maker(it's not like he has followed a typical curve)

It just sucks sucks sucks....in every way for us who don't like the lakers.

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Originally Posted by tacosman

-AD alone from ages 30-33 is still a good foundational piece to at least be average+ when motivated, making the draft picks less valuable. A 44-38 team doesn't have a good draft pick attached to it

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Tell that to The Pelicans. Imagine being a Pelicans fan and trying to argue that AD alone gives you a 44 win team. Come on now.

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Originally Posted by tacosman

-You keep referencing a 6 year period(really more like 4 where they were very bad and those picks would be where we want) where they were really down, but
that's cherry picking even worse than what the other side is doing. The entire history of the lakers franchise going back to kareem is them attracting elite players through non-draft means. From Kareem to
Shaq to Lebron .

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I am not referencing that period (of 7 straight years where they didn't make the playoffs and nobody but Lebron eventually came to join them) as proof that the Lakers can never acquire talent. If I was, then yes that would be unfair cherry picking. What I am doing is referencing that period as some evidence that they won't miraculously and inevitably acquire high end talent without having to ever do anything for it. Lebron is the exception here, rather than the rule, and he only went there because he has other businesses in the area that made it more convenient to be there year round rather than simply in the off-season. Most players, I hope I don't need to argue, are not Lebron.

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Originally Posted by tacosman

worse, the Lakers are about to hoist another trophy in a few days. Next year, they are going to be the favorites(not against the field, but better odds than every other team) to win another title. We're watching this *right now* and that sucks. It sucks for everyone who doesn't like the Lakers. I mean the whole point of this is to win nba titles, and the Lakers are in the process of doing it *right now* and have a damn good chance of doing it next year too. And you're telling me that despite the enormity of how bad that sucks we should look forward to how their situation in 2024 or so may not be great?

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Yes, I am telling you that. Because no matter whether it's LA, or Miami, or Boston, or the Clippers, or Denver, we were never winning a ring this year, and we are the only franchise we should care about. I might have my minor league preferences over who wins the chip in a given year but in reality it's either we win it or it's disappointment. Now, I didn't come into this year expecting it for obvious reasons and therefore whether LA are in the process of winning a ring or not means nothing to me in that sense. I am focused on the future because that is where victory lies for this franchise, and that's where you should be looking too.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Exactly. People need to remember that that was not just a raw, assets-for-PG trade in a vacuum.

That trade was done precisely because it was the requirement to acquire Kawhi. Kawhi had told them he was not signing there unless they did it.

Therefore the trade was for PG and Kawhi both. Which makes it make a lot more sense.

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Don't try to straw man it. It was a ton of assets for PG and PG only. Kawhi was always going to LA. He been wanting to go to LA for 3 season. He was already moved out of Toronto and not moving back.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Don't try to straw man it. It was a ton of assets for PG and PG only. Kawhi was always going to LA. He been wanting to go to LA for 3 season. He was already moved out of Toronto and not moving back.

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Yes but the question was whether he went to LA Lakers or the LA Clippers. He didn't want to necessarily play second fiddle to Lebron, but he also didn't want to go to a team where the second best player would have been Lou Williams.

So he made the demand. Clippers did what they had to. This is well documented at this point.

When Tyler Herro was a draft prospect I called him the next Devin Booker and was trashed for it. I even continued to call him that during the season. One of the huge reasons I pushed to use multiple draft picks to trade for him because I believe next to Ingram and Zion he would have been the perfect fit. He was also the one player the would have swayed me to send Jrue to the Heat when that was a rumor.

Tyler Herro is going to be a Super Star in this league and his game is very similar to Devin Booker with each better in their own right. Such similar backgrounds makes it kinda crazy how similar they are. Their rookie stats are nearly identical in every single area possible with Herro being the slightly better 3pt shooter and rebounder. Outside of those two stats you could put up a mirror. I see Herro becoming that good along with a few other young teammates.

IMO the Heat are becoming the new best team in the East going forward with their youth for years. The Pelicans have a chance to do that by continuing to build from within and drafting well. I see Jrue as our Jimmy and just a year ago we saw his presence in the playoffs. Just like the Heat this season I believe the Pelicans are that team next season.

Zion/Bam
Jrue/Butler
BI/Herro
JJ/Duncan
ZO/Dragic
NAW/Nunn
Hayes/Olynk
Hart/Crowder

Figured I would list the top 8 as it’s the most important in playoffs. I think we have a ton of similarities and while they are better in some areas we are more dominant in others. We also have the draft coming up and who knows how good of a contributor I’m not able to list that we could have. We are ready to compete with the best we just need a good coach and time together. All of our guys at 100% and healthy is lethal and can consistently win.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

When Tyler Herro was a draft prospect I called him the next Devin Booker and was trashed for it. I even continued to call him that during the season. One of the huge reasons I pushed to use multiple draft picks to trade for him because I believe next to Ingram and Zion he would have been the perfect fit. He was also the one player the would have swayed me to send Jrue to the Heat when that was a rumor.

Tyler Herro is going to be a Super Star in this league and his game is very similar to Devin Booker with each better in their own right. Such similar backgrounds makes it kinda crazy how similar they are. Their rookie stats are nearly identical in every single area possible with Herro being the slightly better 3pt shooter and rebounder. Outside of those two stats you could put up a mirror. I see Herro becoming that good along with a few other young teammates.

IMO the Heat are becoming the new best team in the East going forward with their youth for years. The Pelicans have a chance to do that by continuing to build from within and drafting well. I see Jrue as our Jimmy and just a year ago we saw his presence in the playoffs. Just like the Heat this season I believe the Pelicans are that team next season.

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Nobody can argue any of this. Herro will be a star in this league (either on his own or because the NBA needs a White Superstar next to Luka). It’s going to happen, and I’m here for it. I wish we had taken him as he can space the floor, and we need floor spacers. But hey, we have...Jaxson Hayes.

As to the East being the Heat’s, who can argue that? They are young, they are in the Finals, and they are a destination city (thanks in no small part to ample cap space and no state income tax). I can only wonder how they will beef up that team to make them more than just a one and done finals team like the Pistons before them. I will be pulling for them (like I pulled for GSW before KD went there). I am for organically grown teams that defy the odds.

Herro will never sniff the same air as Booker. Will never be an all-star, even in the east.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

As to the East being the Heat’s, who can argue that? They are young, they are in the Finals, and they are a destination city (thanks in no small part to ample cap space and no state income tax). .

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Boston and Milwaukee exist.

Yes, Boston and Milwaukee still exist (so do Toronto and Philly as well), however what do two of those teams have in common? They got got by the Heat. Those teams have a lot more warts than people want to admit, but to Miami’s credit (and unlike those other teams) they are still on the come up. They are young, and littered with solid talent that will improve as it grows. Those other teams are in a holding pattern tinkering in an attempt to beat the Heat.

The East will be a fun conference to follow.

When the dust clears, the East will be Miami, Philly, and Brooklyn's to lose in the foreseeable future. Toronto is already on the skids (Good Bye Marc, and Fred) , Milwaukee is on borrowed time (Giannis time), and Boston's interior is weak, one-dimensional, and unathletic (never mind that the team, overall, lacks length). That's not to say the Heat, 76er's, and Nets don't have holes...but the pieces already in place are quite formidable.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Yes, Boston and Milwaukee still exist (so do Toronto and Philly as well), however what do two of those teams have in common? They got got by the Heat. Those teams have a lot more warts than people want to admit, but to Miami’s credit (and unlike those other teams) they are still on the come up. They are young, and littered with solid talent that will improve as it grows. Those other teams are in a holding pattern tinkering in an attempt to beat the Heat.

The East will be a fun conference to follow.

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The fact that a team ''got got'' by one team one year means very little.

Toronto ''got got'' by the Cavaliers one year and won the chip within the next 3 while the Cavs were back in the lottery.

The Lakers have had a fantastic season but the reality is that Lebron is showing far more faults in his game than many are willing to discuss, and they had a pretty dang easy postseason. Injury riddled not-that-great-even-when-healthy Portland in the first round, Playoff P made sure they didn't have to face the Clippers, Denver was missing Barton the entire time and LA got an extremely favourable whistle, and now they're in the finals against a team missing 2 of their top 3 players.

I don't put asterisks on rings. LA have earned this championship: you can only play the teams that get put in front of you. But the reality is that this year, the teams put in front of them have been of a fairly low calibre due to (largely) injury. That's fine: that's the advantage Lebron gets. You go to the finals every single year, you get a swing at the softballs. You earn that opportunity. But it doesn't turn you into a worldbeater to beat the Bamless, Dragicless Heat.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

When the dust clears, the East will be Miami, Philly, and Brooklyn's to lose in the foreseeable future. Toronto is already on the skids (Good Bye Marc, and Fred) , Milwaukee is on borrowed time (Giannis time), and Boston's interior is weak, one-dimensional, and unathletic (never mind that the team, overall, lacks length). That's not to say the Heat, 76er's, and Nets don't have holes...but the pieces already in place are quite formidable.

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Brooklyn is the future despite their two core pieces that make up like $90m together being a 32 year old coming off basketball's worst injury and a 29 year old with a long documented history of failing knees?

Not sure I follow.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Brooklyn is the future despite their two core pieces that make up like $90m together being a 32 year old coming off basketball's worst injury and a 29 year old with a long documented history of failing knees?

Not sure I follow.

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Stay tuned

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Stay tuned

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I mean, I'm not saying they won't be good, they probably will be as long as Durant is even 50% of himself, but when you call I team the future I think more than ''quite good for like 2 or 3 years maybe''.

Luka Doncic is the future. What I mean by that is, barring injury, the next decade will be his. He may not be the best player that entire time, he'll have stiff competition from people like Zion, Cade, etc, but he's going to be extremely great for a long time.

Brooklyn isn't the future in that way. They'll be pretty good next year I think, probably not a title contender, and this core alone won't be enough to sustain that for a long time. Brooklyn is fairly old, very injury prone (between Kyrie, Durant, and LeVert I'm not sure that there's two completely good legs) and has a rookie coach. Don't expect fireworks.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I mean, I'm not saying they won't be good, they probably will be as long as Durant is even 50% of himself, but when you call I team the future I think more than ''quite good for like 2 or 3 years maybe''.

Luka Doncic is the future. What I mean by that is, barring injury, the next decade will be his. He may not be the best player that entire time, he'll have stiff competition from people like Zion, Cade, etc, but he's going to be extremely great for a long time.

Brooklyn isn't the future in that way. They'll be pretty good next year I think, probably not a title contender, and this core alone won't be enough to sustain that for a long time. Brooklyn is fairly old, very injury prone (between Kyrie, Durant, and LeVert I'm not sure that there's two completely good legs) and has a rookie coach. Don't expect fireworks.

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As my post refers to teams in the Eastern conference, I fail to see how Luca, Zion, or Cunningham are germane to the argument. But to play along, last I looked, neither Luca or Zion were on Eastern Conference teams (do you know something the rest of us don't? Knowing you as we do, your answer has to be: "Of course I do".).

As far as mentioning Cunningham in the same breath as Luca or Zion, do you use tarot cards, astrology charts, or crystal balls? Then again, maybe you just pull it out your........ Never Mind!!!

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Originally Posted by As I See It

As my post refers to teams in the Eastern conference, I fail to see how Luca, Zion, or Cunningham are germane to the argument. But to play along, last I looked, neither Luca or Zion were on Eastern Conference teams (do you know something the rest of us don't? Knowing you as we do, your answer has to be: "Of course I do".).

As far as mentioning Cunningham in the same breath as Luca or Zion, do you use tarot cards, astrology charts, or crystal balls? Then again, maybe you just pull it out your........ Never Mind!!!

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Luka is spelled with a K.

In any case, the players were used as an analogy. That is to say, a comparison to provide clarification: I was giving a demonstration of what is generally meant by calling something ''the future'', to explain why I found your use of that term for Brooklyn a bit confusing.

It's not my fault if you don't understand that. Chill out.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Luka is spelled with a K.

In any case, the players were used as an analogy. That is to say, a comparison to provide clarification: I was giving a demonstration of what is generally meant by calling something ''the future'', to explain why I found your use of that term for Brooklyn a bit confusing.

It's not my fault if you don't understand that. Chill out.

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I'm quite sure you won't mind if I LMAO at your weak response, Cade!!

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Originally Posted by As I See It

I'm quite sure you won't mind if I LMAO at your weak response, Cade!!

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I feel like you and 13 - 3 are the same person

Just inane nonsense with every post

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Originally Posted by AusPel

I feel like you and 13 - 3 are the same person

Just inane nonsense with every post

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Nah, Matey......... Surprise!!! You got it wrong.

Another opinion gone awry!!!

Closeout game in the NBA Finals. Lebron and AD both having good games.

Heat still leading 4 minutes into the 4th, having won every quarter. Butler has and efficient 27/10/10 with 4 steals. Only 2 turnovers: 1 foul.

Has played 39 minutes already.

Dude's just giving it everything.