2022-23 Offseason Thread

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Utah interested in Ayton.

Minnesota is so stupid. 5 1st round picks.... Wow

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Wonder if they'll get a similar haul for Donovan, because I can't see him wanting to be a part of a rebuild.

Y’all sleep on Shamit

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Originally Posted by coreylaron

Y’all sleep on Shamit

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I like Shamit 90% of the time and the In the NO pod is my favourite of the Pels podcasts. I just think on this matter he's going a bit too far.

MM said a few pages back that, though he personally would prefer the slow-build, grind-it-out, grow-with-the-team style victory, he can at least theoretically understand why some people just want to win now, win big, and damn the consequences long term.

Shamit, unfortunately, can't seem to do the same kind of understanding the other perspective on this issue. He's acting like if you're not in favour of giving away everything down to the clothes on your back for KD, you don't want to win or you're unserious or you think you're too good for KD or whatever.

The two teams in the finals this year were drafted and developed. The super teams pieced together by adding stars like the Lakers and Nets watched the finals on TV.

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Originally Posted by harschman

The two teams in the finals this year were drafted and developed. The super teams pieced together by adding stars like the Lakers and Nets watched the finals on TV.

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Neither of those teams where good super teams when the wheels fell off.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Neither of those teams where good super teams when the wheels fell off.

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Yeah, that's my point. The super teams usually have no depth and a lot of these "stars" miss time.

I'm in the camp of build around the core and just add a piece here here and there. I think it was MM that posted an hypothetical trade of Hayes for Isaiah Stewart, that would be a nice trade for a player that fits this teams mentality.

https://youtu.be/JnJCoXbaVp0

I think Sham and BootKrewMedia are scheming for views with this take.

This whole KD seems to be about riding the YouTube KD algorithm wave

It's funny how an offseason forecasted as quiet due to few marquee free agents is turning into a League shaping one. There's still two major players to be traded and yet there's already so much change.

Gobert's deal is an interesting one because it assess the value of draft picks by themselves. Usually teams willing to trade an all star are asking for combination of draft picks and young players. Here Minny wanted to keep its young core intact so they had to make the deal by the draft picks only. Quite interesting for the pels if they want to imagine deal without giving up young talents to get another allstar.

New Jose footage. He's looking good.

He looks like he's gone up a level

Wow

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I like Shamit 90% of the time and the In the NO pod is my favourite of the Pels podcasts. I just think on this matter he's going a bit too far.

MM said a few pages back that, though he personally would prefer the slow-build, grind-it-out, grow-with-the-team style victory, he can at least theoretically understand why some people just want to win now, win big, and damn the consequences long term.

Shamit, unfortunately, can't seem to do the same kind of understanding the other perspective on this issue. He's acting like if you're not in favour of giving away everything down to the clothes on your back for KD, you don't want to win or you're unserious or you think you're too good for KD or whatever.

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I think (actually, I know) that if you talked to Shamit over a beer in person, he would see both sides and is fine with the team going either way. Twitter does weird things to you, man. Why I quit every time my followers start growing. Its just people coming at you non stop and the opinions can not be rich and detailed because of the character limit. So, as most humans would do, you snap back at people spewing hyperbole with your own hyperbole and it just gets worse from there.

Long way of saying that Shamit in person is not the same as Shamit on Twitter. That app is poison and not reflective of real life

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I think (actually, I know) that if you talked to Shamit over a beer in person, he would see both sides and is fine with the team going either way. Twitter does weird things to you, man. Why I quit every time my followers start growing. Its just people coming at you non stop and the opinions can not be rich and detailed because of the character limit. So, as most humans would do, you snap back at people spewing hyperbole with your own hyperbole and it just gets worse from there.

Long way of saying that Shamit in person is not the same as Shamit on Twitter. That app is poison and not reflective of real life

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Twitter should be renamed 'Hot-Take(er)'

Just because it’s boring, let’s talk pure on court basketball fit for a trade that won’t happen

CJ-BI-Herb-Jonas

Who is the better basketball fit assuming both are their best, healthy versions of themselves- KD or Zion. Just next year or two, let’s say

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Just because it’s boring, let’s talk pure on court basketball fit for a trade that won’t happen

CJ-BI-Herb-Jonas

Who is the better basketball fit assuming both are their best, healthy versions of themselves- KD or Zion. Just next year or two, let’s say

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Until I see Zion play at Duke level defensively, I can’t pick him over Durant as better fit.

I am not as worried about Zion next to two non shooters in Jonas and Herb as I am about having three minus defensive players, one slightly positive (Ingram) and one positive.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Just because it’s boring, let’s talk pure on court basketball fit for a trade that won’t happen

CJ-BI-Herb-Jonas

Who is the better basketball fit assuming both are their best, healthy versions of themselves- KD or Zion. Just next year or two, let’s say

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I’d go with Durant. He puts pressure on the rim (not as much as Zion) but also scores super duper efficiently from the perimeter and mid range. Allows CJ, JV, and BI more space to work, they won’t see double teams, easy layups, etc . Allows to not worry about scoring from the perimeter in the slightest, driving and kicking to 4 competent to deadly weapons. On defense he has enough length to provide some secondary rim protection that Z doesn’t have. The reverse to my argument is that Zion drives would probably lead to triple and quadruple teams, leaving open target practice shots for the other guys

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Just because it’s boring, let’s talk pure on court basketball fit for a trade that won’t happen

CJ-BI-Herb-Jonas

Who is the better basketball fit assuming both are their best, healthy versions of themselves- KD or Zion. Just next year or two, let’s say

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KD is the better fit IMO. He's a better fit offensively and defensively. His ability to shoot will open up things for the offense as will his ability to post up. His mid-range game along with CJ and BI... we could rename them to the Middy Pelicans.

But yeah for the next couple years I'd take KD over Zion. if Zion develops a deadly jumper and becomes the demon on defense like he was at Duke, then maybe we could re-visit the question.

Also have to factor in the gravity when KD doesn’t have the ball and what that does for everyone else. And defensively, yes I take old KD over Zion too. I think KD clearly gives the team higher upside for at least the next two years, maybe the next 3. And yes we can play the what if game in the positive and imagine Zion developing this and that and doing this and that. But if you are allowed to imagine on that side, you should also be able to on the other and what if the dude is just always dealing with some injury? Some conditions issues. Never becomes a good defender. Imagine a world where he is closer to the next Oden than Embiid and you passed up a chance for KD for that.

Lastly, I wonder what KD would do for the careers of Herb, Dyson, and Trey, even BI. You see what winning at a high level and making the game super simple for young dudes does for a Poole or a Kuminga. If those guys play in 8-10 grueling playoff series over the next 3-4 years, are they better in 2026-27 than if they played in say 4 or 5 and never tasted WCF or Finals?

Don’t know the answer to that. Don’t know the answer to anything in the future. I just think these debates are always far more complex than how they get simplified down to (win now vs win longer)

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Also have to factor in the gravity when KD doesn?t have the ball and what that does for everyone else. And defensively, yes I take old KD over Zion too. I think KD clearly gives the team higher upside for at least the next two years, maybe the next 3. And yes we can play the what if game in the positive and imagine Zion developing this and that and doing this and that. But if you are allowed to imagine on that side, you should also be able to on the other and what if the dude is just always dealing with some injury? Some conditions issues. Never becomes a good defender. Imagine a world where he is closer to the next Oden than Embiid and you passed up a chance for KD for that.

Lastly, I wonder what KD would do for the careers of Herb, Dyson, and Trey, even BI. You see what winning at a high level and making the game super simple for young dudes does for a Poole or a Kuminga. If those guys play in 8-10 grueling playoff series over the next 3-4 years, are they better in 2026-27 than if they played in say 4 or 5 and never tasted WCF or Finals?

Don?t know the answer to that. Don?t know the answer to anything in the future. I just think these debates are always far more complex than how they get simplified down to (win now vs win longer)

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Lord knows, I have been as critical as anyone of 'The One'. And I agree that KD has had a Top Fifteen (if not Ten) career. But it comes down to one thing for me:

34 versus 22.

Too, Durant has played just 90 games in the last three seasons. While it is still more than what 'The One' has played, it speaks more to him being on the downside of the bell-curve as he was rather durable throughout his twenties.

I can't see trading 'Him', additional high-caliber prospects, and a litany of draft picks for KD at this stage of his career.

Make it stop! Keep this team as is! Why are they even humoring trading for a relic?!

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Originally Posted by Fedupfan

Make it stop! Keep this team as is! Why are they even humoring trading for a relic?!

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People have been abused by this franchise for so long that they can no longer trust a situation to be good, even if it looks good. Something else must be better. Something secretly must be wrong. So we better change it all now before we get hurt: this team can't fire us if we quit.

There's an interview out there with guitar legend Paul Gilbert where he's talking about how differently he plays and how different his gear/set-up is today than it used to be. I can't remember the exact quote but he says something like ''I was sounding great, everything felt good, so naturally I had to change everything''. That's how at least some of the dialogue surrounding this sounds.

The fans are probably the only ones entertaining this.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

There's an interview out there with guitar legend Paul Gilbert where he's talking about how differently he plays and how different his gear/set-up is today than it used to be. I can't remember the exact quote but he says something like ''I was sounding great, everything felt good, so naturally I had to change everything''. That's how at least some of the dialogue surrounding this sounds.

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I agree. It’s just absurd to finally build a young entertaining team and then trade for someone that may be the most boring player in the sport. Adding KD doesn’t even move the needle more than it is at the current time, because you will have to gut the future and lose some of the young talent that we enjoyed so much last year. I have no interest in watching KD play basketball.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Just because it’s boring, let’s talk pure on court basketball fit for a trade that won’t happen

CJ-BI-Herb-Jonas

Who is the better basketball fit assuming both are their best, healthy versions of themselves- KD or Zion. Just next year or two, let’s say

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This is an easy one because Durant is probably the most adaptable superstar maybe ever? I honestly can't think of a team where he wouldn't fit and make them exponentially better on the court.

It's just when the non-on court starts to creep in that this becomes a discussion.

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Originally Posted by Fedupfan

The fans are probably the only ones entertaining this.

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They are. Griff ain't and KD would protest a trade here.

Plus lots of us don't want him now anyway.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

People have been abused by this franchise for so long that they can no longer trust a situation to be good, even if it looks good. Something else must be better. Something secretly must be wrong. So we better change it all now before we get hurt: this team can't fire us if we quit.

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If this was trading Zion for some solid vet, I could see this argument holding up. But we are talking KD. Again, I legit ask - If KD was here and this team was set up to go into the season with CJ-BI-Herb-KD-Jonas plus all the other young dudes, and there was some rumor floating around that the Nets wanted to win now and were willing to trade Zion for KD, how would this board feel? I would bet anything that in that reality, 90 percent of the posters would say GTFOH!

And all the things would still be true. You would be building a longer runway, matching up timelines, etc. But that reality would have posters saying "we already have enough young dudes with Trey and Herb and Jose and EJ and Daniels, why do we need another one? When KD is gone, we are still gonna be fine with BI in his prime and all our young guys being much better. Not to mention we still have those Lakers picks to go get more young dudes. F this Zion trade mess. Lets go win a title baws!!

(This is actually an exact post from that alternative reality board. I can multiverse hop like the girl from Dr. Strange)

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Originally Posted by luckyman

They are. Griff ain't and KD would protest a trade here.

Plus lots of us don't want him now anyway.

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What if KD did like the Pels?

I’m saying don’t do it, but if we do, then I’ll adapt to the reality laid before us.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

I’m saying don’t do it, but if we do, then I’ll adapt to the reality laid before us.

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And least your are honest about it. Lol

If course I’d adapt. I’ll watch one Kevin Durant 2021 highlight reel and be bouncing off the ceiling.

https://twitter.com/FlexFromJersey/s...1_c10&ref_url=

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

I’m saying don’t do it, but if we do, then I’ll adapt to the reality laid before us.

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Thank you! This is the approach here. Some healthy detachment when following sports is important.

Ingram with KD would be really interesting as a mentor-mentee. They would be unstoppable.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

https://twitter.com/FlexFromJersey/s...1_c10&ref_url=

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Players that can't be traded for Durant with Ben Simmons on the Nets roster still pic.twitter.com/iIWu0Qs9GD

— Alex �� (@dbs408) July 1, 2022

So Mitchell can't be traded to Nets, with Simmons still on Nets (can't have 2 max rookie-extension players that were traded for).

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Originally Posted by Taker597

https://twitter.com/FlexFromJersey/s...1_c10&ref_url=

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Twitter handle is from someone that is supposedly a Suns insider. Interesting to say the least. Guess we’ll see how this Durant saga unfolds.

Nothing more than case of when ANY name is available...lets go get that guy.

Lots of "fans" simply won't be happy until the starting 5 is Lebron, KD, Kyrie, Giannis, and 2000 Shaq.

Then turn around and give Laker fans flack since they outwardly do this every year.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

If you guys only knew....

Both of those hypothesis are false. But I will wait for someone you personally trust more to tell you that and then see your reaction

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This is why I’m petrified!

There is nothing to be scared of. Zion wants to play in NOLA. KD wants to play in NOLA. That’s a good problem to have. It will most likely be Zion and that’s cool. But acting like this is some terrible dilemma is what has me confusing. It’s entertainment and either way you are gonna be adding a highly entertaining player this summer to what was already a highly entertaining team

After reading trough this thread i think we are again overrrating this team quite a lot. West is ********ing loaded next year.
Warriors
Suns
Clippers
Nuggets
Mavericks
Grizzlies
Timberwolves

That is 7 playoff teams without including Lakers and Blazers, and without including possibility that Durant joins one of West teams.

Lets say we are the 8 team with those 7 listed (currently i see us in 5-8 range). Do You realy think we can get out of 1st round? I dont see it if everyone is healthy of course(and this is a good option for us, since we have a bigest questionmark regarding injuries).

If you want us to not trade for KD(which is majority of opininons), they you need to be realistic and let this team grow a little bit more.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

There is nothing to be scared of. Zion wants to play in NOLA. KD wants to play in NOLA. That’s a good problem to have. It will most likely be Zion and that’s cool. But acting like this is some terrible dilemma is what has me confusing. It’s entertainment and either way you are gonna be adding a highly entertaining player this summer to what was already a highly entertaining team

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I mean, that's a matter of taste. Despite acknowledging that he's an all-time megastar, I've never found KD that interesting to watch. Maybe even because he's so good but also so perimeter oriented, and score first. My personal taste is just that I prefer impressive stuff at the rim and passing to be the most entertaining parts of basketball and Durant isn't particularly noteworthy for either.

That said, of course if we traded for Durant, I'm not acting like it's the end of the world. The team would still be good at least in the short term and it's not like I'd stop rooting for the franchise. It would just not be the route I would want to take, for a number of reasons. That's where I'm at with it. Just tired of the drama and it's only been about 2 days.

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Originally Posted by Mrakar

After reading trough this thread i think we are again overrrating this team quite a lot. West is ********ing loaded next year.
Warriors
Suns
Clippers
Nuggets
Mavericks
Grizzlies
Timberwolves

That is 7 playoff teams without including Lakers and Blazers, and without including possibility that Durant joins one of West teams.

Lets say we are the 8 team with those 7 listed (currently i see us in 5-8 range). Do You realy think we can get out of 1st round? I dont see it if everyone is healthy of course(and this is a good option for us, since we have a bigest questionmark regarding injuries).

If you want us to not trade for KD(which is majority of opininons), they you need to be realistic and let this team grow a little bit more.

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Depends entirely on the matchup. I'd be fairly confident in us having the advantage over the Wolves, Nuggets, and Mavs, for example. Much more sceptical about us winning over Clippers or Suns. But then, if we're assuming health, we damn near took Phoenix to 7 last season so it's not like it would be out of the question for us to manage to win if CJ doesn't go to garbage again and Zion is playing.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

https://twitter.com/FlexFromJersey/s...1_c10&ref_url=

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https://twitter.com/FlexFromJersey/s...1_c10&ref_url=

I?ll say it, I would do whatever it takes to land KD. Trade them either Zion or BI, trade them the Lakers picks, trade them Herb or Trigga Trey. Do what it takes. While you get the Superstar drama, you also get the Superstar calls. With him you get credibility as an organization where players want to join you in order to ring chase. That hasn?t happened here before, and I wouldn?t be opposed to it happening now.

If KD is one and done, so be it. We have the depth in place for this to be a Kawhi Raptors situation.

Clearing roster spots, eh? https://t.co/LD4la6wpNb

— Mason Ginsberg (@MasonGinsberg) July 2, 2022

I'm not so sure it's a sign of anything but I hope it is. Get this over with, I'm exhausted by it already.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Clearing roster spots, eh? https://t.co/LD4la6wpNb

— Mason Ginsberg (@MasonGinsberg) July 2, 2022

I'm not so sure it's a sign of anything but I hope it is. Get this over with, I'm exhausted by it already.

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Heard someone on NBA radio saying that this might just be a play by KD and Kyrie to get Marks and Nash fired. That’s certainly a take, but this move leads me to believe that won’t happen, and the Nets are prepping to trade KD and get back the haul they want.

The good thing about making a trade in the off-season is that both teams don’t have to be at or under 15 players once the trade is done. Some team do a 5 for 1 trade for KD and the Nets can figure it out as the off-season goes on. That isn’t possible in February

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Heard someone on NBA radio saying that this might just be a play by KD and Kyrie to get Marks and Nash fired. That’s certainly a take, but this move leads me to believe that won’t happen, and the Nets are prepping to trade KD and get back the haul they want.

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That would surprise me a little - though if it was the case, all it would do is give a very definitive reason as to why nobody should want to acquire either KD or Kyrie :hihi: - so I think it's more likely that i's a roster clearing move in prep. But I don't think that necessarily means a deal is done, just that they're getting ready for different options.

I have a horrid feeling that, like the Kawhi FA a few years ago, this is going to last absurdly longer than anyone wants.

https://twitter.com/FlexFromJersey/s...1_c10&ref_url=

Movement guys

Free agent center Bismack Biyombo has agreed to terms on a return to the Phoenix Suns, league sources tell @YahooSports.

— Chris Haynes (@ChrisBHaynes) July 2, 2022

Moves beginning to shift

I tell you what I *would* like - though of course I don't think it's going to happen, not even a little bit - is if we could scoop up Bridges as a 3rd or 4th team in exchange for a pick or something.

That's not going to happen and I don't even know why other teams would choose us if they needed additional help, but I do like Bridges.