Official Summer League Games Thread

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

Think NAW could play a lot of minutes as a rookie.

Wouldn't surprise me if he is getting 25mpg as a point guard by the end of the year. He's just miles ahead of Jackson as a facilitator.

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I agree. And as a defender. If I were picking minutes, I'd be very strongly considering putting more minutes into NAW than Frank.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I agree. And as a defender. If I were picking minutes, I'd be very strongly considering putting more minutes into NAW than Frank.

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yeah naw,redick and hart as the second unit sounds deadly

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Jesus Christ. We stacked.

Man... If The Hawks made a huge mistake with gambling on Hunter. This will probably hurt them more than Lakers giving up so much for AD

My god. I can’t wait. I think it’s gonna come down to coaching... the TALENT this team has is through the roof. If they coach these players well and create a positive culture and everyone plays their part(Play as a TEAM) we can go really far.

I think the coaches have to be objective. If NAW is playing better than Jackson and Moore, Hart etc then he needs to be on the court. That kid looks brilliant out there.


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Erman is gone and I see tenacious defense again since like forever. Coincidence... I think not.


It's totally a coincidence, but still... It feels nice.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Is there anywhere to watch highlights from this game?

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You have not made youself aware of Freedawkins, House of Highlights, or the NBA page on Youtube?

And FreeDawkins must have a staff of 1,000 becuase they have Jaxson Hayes and NAW highlights up already.



And Hayes looked better than Jarrett Allen's last game who quite frankly, looked bad. Maybe he's ready to go home.

I think some of that goes to Fred Vinson. He has these young guys coched up real well.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

You have not made youself aware of Freedawkins, House of Highlights, or the NBA page on Youtube?

And FreeDawkins must have a staff of 1,000 becuase they have Jaxson Hayes and NAW highlights up already.



And Hayes looked better than Jarrett Allen's last game who quite frankly, looked bad. Maybe he's ready to go home.

I think some of that goes to Fred Vinson. He has these young guys coched up real well.

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Yeah Fred is doing great.

watch the Hayes highlight again a couple of the Bulls on the bench almost jump up and them they catch their selves bc it's their team mate [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

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Got some Bulls fans second guessing LOL

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I've been very much pro Coby White from day one. But if you asked me if we could have Coby White and Danny Gafford or Jaxon Hayes and NAW? Well..I'm telling myself yet again that this is just summer league.

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Our rookies played a really good game today. Our future thanks to David Griffin is safe. I can't wait for the season to start. :cool:

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Got some Bulls fans second guessing LOL

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Gafford was taken 38th. Of course you'd rather have Hayes

Hayes was great in this game but Nawlins looked really great. Jackson played well in the first game and on top of that we have Zion of course. The young guys look more than promising. And Lonzo and Ingram are not old either :) The future looks bright

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Originally Posted by PolishFan

Hayes was great in this game but Nawlins looked really great. Jackson played well in the first game and on top of that we have Zion of course. The young guys look more than promising. And Lonzo and Ingram are not old either :) The future looks bright

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Best future in the league I'd say (no homerz)

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I agree. And as a defender. If I were picking minutes, I'd be very strongly considering putting more minutes into NAW than Frank.

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That’s a good problem to have though right? If Frank is one our worst 2-3 players, I’d say we are in pretty good shape. We have never has this kind of depth before.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

That’s a good problem to have though right? If Frank is one our worst 2-3 players, I’d say we are in pretty good shape. We have never has this kind of depth before.

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It's the best problem.

Think about it this way: we're currently having to decide whether to keep guys like Wood on the team because we have so much NBA quality talent that we don't have enough roster spots for them.

In the past, we've had to rely on 10 day contracts and G League call ups just to field a team 8 men deep. Now we have to cut legit NBA players because we've got too much talent.

That's the best place to be.

We need to keep Wood. The guy has sky high potential. I'm gonna be pissed if we lose him for nothing

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Originally Posted by AusPel

We need to keep Wood. The guy has sky high potential. I'm gonna be pissed if we lose him for nothing

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The point isn't "is Wood good", it's "is he better, both in terms of skill today and upside, to justify keeping him on the roster recieving minutes when we only have limited space both in terms of roster slots and rotation minutes?"

I think it's clear, especially if hes being held out of Summer League because he's pushing to get his contract guaranteed, that he's not the guy.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

We need to keep Wood. The guy has sky high potential. I'm gonna be pissed if we lose him for nothing

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I really liked what I saw from Wood at the end of last season, but I suspect he has asked to go somewhere where he will get more run. Maybe he and Moore will be packaged in a deal soon.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

We need to keep Wood. The guy has sky high potential. I'm gonna be pissed if we lose him for nothing

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When you're as deep and talented with players as we are, you simply don't have the minutes to give everyone.

The entire reason we got Wood to begin with was because he was released for the same reason. He could turn into a gold NBA player but there's only so many spots and minutes for each team.

Should we slow Hayes development to try and also develop Wood too? It's not about just "lose him for nothing" it's "who do we want to develop for our team".

What's the 4/5 rotation?

Zion
Favors
Jah
Hayes
Wood

That it? I think there's room for him. You still need guys at the end of the bench who can produce

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Originally Posted by AusPel

What's the 4/5 rotation?

Zion
Favors
Jah
Hayes
Wood

That it? I think there's room for him. You still need guys at the end of the bench who can produce

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Melli would be in that group as well.

I would almost prefer Wood over Okafor going forward. I understand Oak gives us a big to bang low with when Favors needs a breather but out of all our bigs he fits our system the least.

Man that's such a hard choice between Okafor and Wood.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I would almost prefer Wood over Okafor going forward. I understand Oak gives us a big to bang low with when Favors needs a breather but out of all our bigs he fits our system the least.

Man that's such a hard choice between Okafor and Wood.

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I think Wood suits the modern NBA better than Jah

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Melli would be in that group as well.

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Is Melli coming over this year or is he a Euro stash?

If Wood were willing to be an end of the bench guy for the year to develop, we could keep 6 front court players (as none of our SFs play the 4 much). However, I think he sees a lot of young front court players and does not see an avenue to a future here.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I would almost prefer Wood over Okafor going forward. I understand Oak gives us a big to bang low with when Favors needs a breather but out of all our bigs he fits our system the least.

Man that's such a hard choice between Okafor and Wood.

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Their style of play is different, but I honestly feel if Hayes keeps up this play he will earn more minutes than we originally thought he would get this year and should try to move Oak. He is on a minimum deal and can produce, I think he would have small value.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Is Melli coming over this year or is he a Euro stash?

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He's coming over. He wasn't drafted, he was a free agent signing. Apparently teams have been trying to convince him to come over for years and he's always refused. There's no way he finally accepted an offer from an NBA team but is STILL just gonna hang around in Europe.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

I think Wood suits the modern NBA better than Jah

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But at the same time, is it not also true that his skillset is the more redundant one? That is to say, Okafor gives us a different look if we need it, adds an option to the menu and a tool to the belt. Wood's skillset is one that's largely covered by the other guys on the team.

There's an argument that Okafor is made redundant by Favors too, so I'm not saying you have no point at all, but it's worth considering.

The biggest argument I can see for Okafor is incase of injury to Favors. If we get rid of him we go into games with a starting center that either wasn't in the NBA last year or played less than 300 minutes last season.

That's a risk to be taking.

our team has now played 3 Summer League games (although the actual lineups have changed game to game) and many, many games have been played across the league. Here are some Summer League stats for some prominent players. Zion is not included because not only did he only play in one game, he only played in one HALF.

Pelicans
Frank Jackson: 30/3/0/0/2 on 65% FG.
NAW: 23/2/8/3/2 on 56% FG.
Jaxson Hayes: 28/4/0/0/4 ON 67% FG
Didi Silva: 13/3/1/2/2 on 50% FG (75% from 3)

Other Names
Brandon Clarke: 17/4/1/0/2 on 64% FG
R.J. Barrett: 9/7.5/1/1/0.5 on 21% FG
DeAndre Hunter: 6/3/1/0/1 on 25% FG
Coby White: 19/4.3/3.7/1.7/0 on 40% FG
Rui Hachimura: 16.5/6/0.5/0.5/1.5 on 40% FG

Basically, what I'm saying is that our rookies have stacked up very well compared to other notable rookie names, and that RJ Barrett has looked horrible.

How many games did those other team's players play in? It's kind of hard to evaluate guys who played in 2-3 games vs just 1 game.

Not necessarily disagreeing but let's look at this at the end of summer league to have a better idea of how everyone stacked up.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

How many games did those other team's players play in? It's kind of hard to evaluate guys who played in 2-3 games vs just 1 game.

Not necessarily disagreeing but let's look at this at the end of summer league to have a better idea of how everyone stacked up.

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I can't remember exactly. I feel like they've all played 2, except Barrett who has played 3, but I could be wrong about that since my memory can be spotty sometimes.

Looking forward to the next game to really get more of a feel. But early signs are encouraging.

Just some random thoughts:
- It's only one game and summer league, but the good sensations are there. Outside of top-3 (or even top-1) this was the kind of really open draft where picks could end either on bust or all star talent. So, it won't be so surprising if Hayes and NAW end as the latter.
- If NAW develops as a PG, Lonzo will be the odd man out on the long term. No question.
- Frank Jackson is still 21. He's only 6 months older than NAW. Even if he never develops playmaker skills, he has all the tools to become a Lou Williams. I wouldn't give up on him.
- Given his frame, length, athleticism, and coordination, Hayes was the right pick. His shot and post game are still raw, but not broken at all. I expect him improving by training with an excellent defender such Favors and an offensive talent such Okafor. I would keep both. They are young and seem good locker room guys at this point.

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Originally Posted by Pelispanish

- If NAW develops as a PG, Lonzo will be the odd man out on the long term. No question.

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This makes so little sense I actually read it and did a double take.

Even if NAW develops more as a point, Lonzo is a pure point. He'll probably never be the shooter that Frank could be, but he's bigger, just as fast coast to coast, and MUCH smarter player who plays much better defense and passes about 50 times better.

If anything, NAW developing as more PG skills just makes Frank completely redundant. He could just slot into Frank's minutes and play that scoring guard role, but also provide playmaking for others and defense rather than just letting the passing and defending fall off a cliff when Lonzo or Jrue sits.

Lonzo + NAW is a much better combination in terms of playmaking, size, defense, and switchability than NAW + Frank is, because NAW's skillset makes Frank's largely redundant and he actually has the size and IQ to allow the heavy switching that our defense should be relying on.

Wood isnt going anywhere. He's been working out right in the city and doing what the team has asked him to do. If he wanted out he would be showcasing himself in SL.

Come on with the recency bias.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Looking forward to the next game to really get more of a feel. But early signs are encouraging.

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100% agree.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Wood isnt going anywhere. He's been working out right in the city and doing what the team has asked him to do. If he wanted out he would be showcasing himself in SL.

Come on with the recency bias.

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Someone will have to be cut. If not Wood, who?

As a side note, the reason Wood hasn't been playing in Summer League is because he's involved in a contractual negotiation with the front office. Rumours are that he wants his contract guaranteeing. If the Pels aren't willing to do that, then what does that tell you about their faith in him being here come January?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Someone will have to be cut. If not Wood, who?

As a side note, the reason Wood hasn't been playing in Summer League is because he's involved in a contractual negotiation with the front office. Rumours are that he wants his contract guaranteeing. If the Pels aren't willing to do that, then what does that tell you about their faith in him being here come January?

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I think they just want a longer look at him. I can't blame Wood's camp for wanting guarantees given the stature of the lineup right now. I also think it would be a mistake cutting him after the stint he had. He deserves a longer look to see if he can sustain the dominance he showed before. We could regret it down the line.

Now I don't know who we cut in order to keep him. Maybe trade E'Twaun for some picks? Who knows. But while you want to stay competitive, you want to stay young as well, and Wood has that young potential that teams crave for.

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Originally Posted by kinglio21093

I think they just want a longer look at him. I can't blame Wood's camp for wanting guarantees given the stature of the lineup right now. I also think it would be a mistake cutting him after the stint he had. He deserves a longer look to see if he can sustain the dominance he showed before. We could regret it down the line.

Now I don't know who we cut in order to keep him. Maybe trade E'Twaun for some picks? Who knows. But while you want to stay competitive, you want to stay young as well, and Wood has that young potential that teams crave for.

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I don't think cutting Wood jeopardises our ability to stay extremely young. Zion, Hayes, NAW, Ingram, Ball, Hart, Frank, Okafor, Kenrich, and Didi are all still under the age of 25. We're not exactly short on young potential.

We have a lot of promising young talent. Not all of it is going to be here in 2, 3, 4 years. Whether that's cause Ingram gets moved, or because Didi stays as a stash guy for longer than we think, or because Frank gets made redundant by NAW, or because Wood gets cut, some of these names are not going to be on this team by, say, 2021. At least one of those guys we will lose out on and we will say ''oh no, they ended up being good!'' When you have a good, deep roster filled with potential you have to make choices.

Cutting Wood doesn't mean he sucks or that the team is low on him. It just means that given our lineup, given the amount of minutes we have available for ''bigs'' and given the young talent we have there already fighting for minutes, we will probably have to get rid of SOMEONE. Obviously it's not going to be Favors, Zion, or Hayes. So it's Okafor or Wood. We will end up cutting someone who is good at some point in the next few years, or trading them, and there will always be a part of us as a fanbase that sees that as a mistake, but it's just what happens when your team is stacked deep.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Wood isnt going anywhere. He's been working out right in the city and doing what the team has asked him to do. If he wanted out he would be showcasing himself in SL.

Come on with the recency bias.

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I don't think it has anything to do with recency bias. There is suspicion that he wants out given the comment by the coach that the Pelicans were working on a "solution" with him and his agent. I hope he stays, but sounds like something is up.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Rumours are that he wants his contract guaranteeing.

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If that is the case, I do not understand. He signed that contract, so he should be willing to live with the terms he agreed to.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

If that is the case, I do not understand. He signed that contract, so he should be willing to live with the terms he agreed to.

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Like I said, it's just rumours. I don't have any sources, so it could easily just be the gossip-mill hard at work.

Odds on who will win Summer League championship ..... pic.twitter.com/m5fcpdtdee

— Rod Walker (@rwalkeradvocate) July 9, 2019

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I don't think cutting Wood jeopardises our ability to stay extremely young. Zion, Hayes, NAW, Ingram, Ball, Hart, Frank, Okafor, Kenrich, and Didi are all still under the age of 25. We're not exactly short on young potential.

We have a lot of promising young talent. Not all of it is going to be here in 2, 3, 4 years. Whether that's cause Ingram gets moved, or because Didi stays as a stash guy for longer than we think, or because Frank gets made redundant by NAW, or because Wood gets cut, some of these names are not going to be on this team by, say, 2021. At least one of those guys we will lose out on and we will say ''oh no, they ended up being good!'' When you have a good, deep roster filled with potential you have to make choices.

Cutting Wood doesn't mean he sucks or that the team is low on him. It just means that given our lineup, given the amount of minutes we have available for ''bigs'' and given the young talent we have there already fighting for minutes, we will probably have to get rid of SOMEONE. Obviously it's not going to be Favors, Zion, or Hayes. So it's Okafor or Wood. We will end up cutting someone who is good at some point in the next few years, or trading them, and there will always be a part of us as a fanbase that sees that as a mistake, but it's just what happens when your team is stacked deep.

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Such a good problem to have!

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Odds on who will win Summer League championship ..... pic.twitter.com/m5fcpdtdee

— Rod Walker (@rwalkeradvocate) July 9, 2019

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If we had Zion those odds would be like 2-1 lol

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

If we had Zion those odds would be like 2-1 lol

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and 30-pt Action Jackson only played 1 game.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

and 30-pt Action Jackson only played 1 game.

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Very true

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

I don't think it has anything to do with recency bias. There is suspicion that he wants out given the comment by the coach that the Pelicans were working on a "solution" with him and his agent. I hope he stays, but sounds like something is up.

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It has everything to do with recency bias for the folks I'm addressing... that only mentioned giving minutes to Hayes and we no longer need Wood. Not true and would be a mistake.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

This makes so little sense I actually read it and did a double take.

Even if NAW develops more as a point, Lonzo is a pure point. He'll probably never be the shooter that Frank could be, but he's bigger, just as fast coast to coast, and MUCH smarter player who plays much better defense and passes about 50 times better.

If anything, NAW developing as more PG skills just makes Frank completely redundant. He could just slot into Frank's minutes and play that scoring guard role, but also provide playmaking for others and defense rather than just letting the passing and defending fall off a cliff when Lonzo or Jrue sits.

Lonzo + NAW is a much better combination in terms of playmaking, size, defense, and switchability than NAW + Frank is, because NAW's skillset makes Frank's largely redundant and he actually has the size and IQ to allow the heavy switching that our defense should be relying on.

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Frank's role is not playmaking and I don't think the FO expects him to become one. Frank's role is just to provide instant scoring off the bench. And if anything he overlaps with Hart.

NAW has a completely different skillset and, from what it seems, the coaching staff wants NAW to play the point and also take playmaker duties. That's not Frank's role but Ball's role instead. Of course Ball is a pure point and NAW isn't. In fact, I think NAW's skillset fits more in Jrue's mold than Ball's. But if NAW's playmaking skills become good enough, we can see often a backcourt Jrue-NAW as soon as next season.

Don't get me wrong. I think Ball is not going anywhere. But if the pair Jrue-NAW provides enough playmaking (and NAW gets heavy minutes, which is a big if), Ball will be prone to be included in a trade given his value, contract, and father.