Pelicans looking to get a top 5 pick?

I just don't get it. We added 3 players all from other teams that were in the same situation coming off of their rookie deals and the consensus here is that all 3 deals are acceptable. Yet every player in those situations gets overpaid. So which is it? This is what I mean about having things both ways. Not every player coming off of a rookie deal just automatically get overpaid.

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Originally Posted by MMEmbreno

I know this is kind of irrelevant but they have Hayward and parsons rated in the mid to high 80's in 2k but they have Anderson rated at like a 67 which is outrageous. I know it's a video game but the outright disrespect Anderson gets on that game and just in general is bad. He's incredibly underrated and I say that as he averaged 20 ppg last season before his injury.

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Hayward is a 75 and Parsons a 76, but regardless, that game has the absolute worst rankings ever, I could go on and on and on about them.

Oj Mayo and Noah are both an 81, in what world is mayo even on noah's level

Ilysova is a 73 but Ryno is a 67?

Lou Williams a 79 jeff teague a 76? sorry teague is way better

Oladipo has a 86 3pt rating and Ryno only a 81? lmao

parsons a 76 and lin a 76?

jonas valanciunas a 69? but tyler hansbrough a 73?

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Hayward is a 75 and Parsons a 76, but regardless, that game has the absolute worst rankings ever, I could go on and on and on about them.

Oj Mayo and Noah are both an 81, in what world is mayo even on noah's level

Ilysova is a 73 but Ryno is a 67?

Lou Williams a 79 jeff teague a 76? sorry teague is way better

Oladipo has a 86 3pt rating and Ryno only a 81? lmao

parsons a 76 and lin a 76?

jonas valanciunas a 69? but tyler hansbrough a 73?

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Wow. I don't play video games, but if those are indeed the ratings then that is just ridiculous.

Would a team actually take Gordon and ryno for a top 5-7 pick?

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Originally Posted by saintsinNO

Wow. I don't play video games, but if those are indeed the ratings then that is just ridiculous.

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And those people who make that decision gets paid well.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I just don't get it. We added 3 players all from other teams that were in the same situation coming off of their rookie deals and the consensus here is that all 3 deals are acceptable. Yet every player in those situations gets overpaid. So which is it? This is what I mean about having things both ways. Not every player coming off of a rookie deal just automatically get overpaid.

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Not everybody in those situations gets overpaid. First of all, Jrue extended before he got the All-Star birth. Like Steph Curry, he would have gotten more if he waited the year and hit the market but went for security. I already explained to you why Ryno will never see huge money. And Tyreke was perceived to be regressing after what many deemed a spectacular rookie year, though his last year in Sacto was actually better. Also, Tyreke is seen as unconventional; doesn't have a clear cut position.

Not every guy gets overpaid in that position, but a lot of them certainly do. I don't mind debate with you - and it happens a lot since we rarely agree - but I just ask that you don't exaggerate my points. That is called a straw man fallacy. I never said "every player coming off a rookie deal gets overpaid." Disagree with me, thats fine. Just don't disagree with a radicalized version of me because that makes it easier for you.

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Originally Posted by saintsinNO

Wow. I don't play video games, but if those are indeed the ratings then that is just ridiculous.

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The overall rating in 2K means nothing. It is weighted heavier on certain categories. If and when you actually play the game, Ryno is a beast and far more effective than most of the guys with a higher overall rating. Has the catch and shoot attribute - whatever it is called. They don't give him his proper due on his post up game, but he can go off like he does in real life.

Can someone kindly update me on this thread?
I don't want to read 16 pages to find out that this is just all rumour.

What has been said by the Pelican's or just rumoured by a good source to be true?

Thanks

Think about the frontcourts in the western conference playoffs this year. Hell, think about he frontcourts in the west, period.

Ideally, for longevity of his career and optimizing his offensive potential, we don't want Davis banging around on the defensive end with Bogut, Howard, Jordan, Gasol, Splitter, Cousins, et al.

For all the thinking like Dell you want us to do, you seem to forget that the one thing Monty and Dell both seem to be in agreement about is that they want a Center!

Scroll back through previous post I've made. I love Ryan Anderson. I'm a fan. But I believe if you can replace his shooting threat which stretches the court, we'd be better off with a roster that features a real center next to AD. My problem with Ryan Anderson isn't Ryan Anderson, it's roster construction, and ultimately what AD is going to develop into. I think AD will develop into a LaMarcus Aldridge type, before he develops into a Dwight Howard type. He's got a better chance of being Kevin Love, than being Gasol. And if you have that guy, on your team, you don't ideally want to pare him with a Ryan Anderson type. You want a bigger, stronger guy.

I don't want to give away Ryan Anderson. But this thread is about Dell acquiring a top 5 pick. And if Dell thinks there is a guy in the top 5 who be an ideal paring with Anthony, you have to offer Ryan Anderson if that will get the deal done. Ryan's value to this team is spacing the court, and if you get the right SF, not an Aminu type, you can replace 80% of the value Ryno has to the Pelicans.

I'm seriously shocked that you guys think keeping Ryan Anderson, he of only 22 games, the small sample size, and not the ideal fit next to AD, is soooooo important to this team, that you wouldn't trade him.

Edit...seriously. A guy who you also argue isn't valuable enough to get paid more than $10m in 2 years, is worth more than a top 5 pick. Seriously... That's a rare group Ryan Anderson must be in.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

Can someone kindly update me on this thread?
I don't want to read 16 pages to find out that this is just all rumour.

What has been said by the Pelican's or just rumoured by a good source to be true?

Thanks

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Guy that posted this rumor is a MLB writer, so take it for what it is worth.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Think about the frontcourts in the western conference playoffs this year. Hell, think about he frontcourts in the west, period.

Ideally, for longevity of his career and optimizing his offensive potential, we don't want Davis banging around on the defensive end with Bogut, Howard, Jordan, Gasol, Splitter, Cousins, et al.

For all the thinking like Dell you want us to do, you seem to forget that the one thing Monty and Dell both seem to be in agreement about is that they want a Center!

Scroll back through previous post I've made. I love Ryan Anderson. I'm a fan. But I believe if you can replace his shooting threat which stretches the court, we'd be better off with a roster that features a real center next to AD. My problem with Ryan Anderson isn't Ryan Anderson, it's roster construction, and ultimately what AD is going to develop into. I think AD will develop into a LaMarcus Aldridge type, before he develops into a Dwight Howard type. He's got a better chance of being Kevin Love, than being Gasol. And if you have that guy, on your team, you don't ideally want to pare him with a Ryan Anderson type. You want a bigger, stronger guy.

I don't want to give away Ryan Anderson. But this thread is about Dell acquiring a top 5 pick. And if Dell thinks there is a guy in the top 5 who be an ideal paring with Anthony, you have to offer Ryan Anderson if that will get the deal done. Ryan's value to this team is spacing the court, and if you get the right SF, not an Aminu type, you can replace 80% of the value Ryno has to the Pelicans.

I'm seriously shocked that you guys think keeping Ryan Anderson, he of only 22 games, the small sample size, and not the ideal fit next to AD, is soooooo important to this team, that you wouldn't trade him.

Edit...seriously. A guy who you also argue isn't valuable enough to get paid more than $10m in 2 years, is worth more than a top 5 pick. Seriously... That's a rare group Ryan Anderson must be in.

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They have both said they want a center for 15-20 minutes, to ease the wear and tear off AD. Said that was the initial reason they got Lopez and they plan for them. You won't be able to find me one quote where they say they want a 30-35 mpg prototypical center next to AD>

And I think you keep missing my point. I don't doubt they would get a traditional center if he was a great fit, even if that meant sacrificing Ryno. But to think Dell is going to take a step back next year for two steps forward in three years is just not likely given the expectations of Benson and Loomis. Now, I know you think fringe starters can come in and fill the role. But one, you gotta get them and teach them the offensive and defensive scheme that Ryno already knows. And two, hope they stay healthy and productive.

You keep acting like I am saying Ryno is definitely better than anybody in the top 5 long term. I am not saying that. I am saying he is miles better than any of them next year - the year Dell has to have this team take a jump to keep his job.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I just don't get it. We added 3 players all from other teams that were in the same situation coming off of their rookie deals and the consensus here is that all 3 deals are acceptable. Yet every player in those situations gets overpaid. So which is it? This is what I mean about having things both ways. Not every player coming off of a rookie deal just automatically get overpaid.

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I've seen you make this claim before and called you out on it. The above statement is absolutely, without question, FALSE. By tons of media and multiple people on this board Tyreke was overpaid. That's the entire reason we got him was we offered more than the Kings were willing to match. Jrue was argued to be on an acceptable contract but others have said because it goes up over 11M it's actually overpaid for his production. Ryno is the only one that was signed to a contract that would be considered undervalue and it was only because it was after a big change and with questions about how much of his a production was tied to Dwight that we got him for undervalue.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

They have both said they want a center for 15-20 minutes, to ease the wear and tear off AD. Said that was the initial reason they got Lopez and they plan for them. You won't be able to find me one quote where they say they want a 30-35 mpg prototypical center next to AD>

And I think you keep missing my point. I don't doubt they would get a traditional center if he was a great fit, even if that meant sacrificing Ryno. But to think Dell is going to take a step back next year for two steps forward in three years is just not likely given the expectations of Benson and Loomis. Now, I know you think fringe starters can come in and fill the role. But one, you gotta get them and teach them the offensive and defensive scheme that Ryno already knows. And two, hope they stay healthy and productive.

You keep acting like I am saying Ryno is definitely better than anybody in the top 5 long term. I am not saying that. I am saying he is miles better than any of them next year - the year Dell has to have this team take a jump to keep his job.

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I get that completely. What I'm dumbfounded by is that you think Ryan Anderson, who also has to stay healthy (so don't throw that in like it's a knock on whoever Dell could acquire), would be better than what you call fringe starters (Dunleavy just scored 34 in a playoff game this year, and Hawes is a good player) AND Vonleh (or whoever Dell would target in the early lottery).

Ryan is good, but he's not that good. What makes Ryan valuable to the team can be replaced. You've said it yourself, three point shooters are the easiest thing to find.

I've been racking my brain trying to think who else in the entire NBA won't be worth more than $10m on their next contract, but is also more valuable than a top 5 pick in a good draft. Who else is on that list?

And if Dell is already making decisions in CYA mode, he should be fired now. That never works out for a franchise.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

I get that completely. What I'm dumbfounded by is that you think Ryan Anderson, who also has to stay healthy (so don't throw that in like it's a knock on whoever Dell could acquire), would be better than what you call fringe starters (Dunleavy just scored 34 in a playoff game this year, and Hawes is a good player) AND Vonleh (or whoever Dell would target in the early lottery).

Ryan is good, but he's not that good. What makes Ryan valuable to the team can be replaced. You've said it yourself, three point shooters are the easiest thing to find.

I've been racking my brain trying to think who else in the entire NBA won't be worth more than $10m on their next contract, but is also more valuable than a top 5 pick in a good draft. Who else is on that list?

And if Dell is already making decisions in CYA mode, he should be fired now. That never works out for a franchise.

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See - now that is a legit complaint. If Dell is thinking more short term, maybe that is something we should worry about.

But Ryno was the most impactful player on our team last year because of how much space he gave everybody else. But it looks like that is the core of our disagreement and neither of us are going to change each others minds. And I am fine with that.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Think about the frontcourts in the western conference playoffs this year. Hell, think about he frontcourts in the west, period.

Ideally, for longevity of his career and optimizing his offensive potential, we don't want Davis banging around on the defensive end with Bogut, Howard, Jordan, Gasol, Splitter, Cousins, et al.

For all the thinking like Dell you want us to do, you seem to forget that the one thing Monty and Dell both seem to be in agreement about is that they want a Center!

Scroll back through previous post I've made. I love Ryan Anderson. I'm a fan. But I believe if you can replace his shooting threat which stretches the court, we'd be better off with a roster that features a real center next to AD. My problem with Ryan Anderson isn't Ryan Anderson, it's roster construction, and ultimately what AD is going to develop into. I think AD will develop into a LaMarcus Aldridge type, before he develops into a Dwight Howard type. He's got a better chance of being Kevin Love, than being Gasol. And if you have that guy, on your team, you don't ideally want to pare him with a Ryan Anderson type. You want a bigger, stronger guy.

I don't want to give away Ryan Anderson. But this thread is about Dell acquiring a top 5 pick. And if Dell thinks there is a guy in the top 5 who be an ideal paring with Anthony, you have to offer Ryan Anderson if that will get the deal done. Ryan's value to this team is spacing the court, and if you get the right SF, not an Aminu type, you can replace 80% of the value Ryno has to the Pelicans.

I'm seriously shocked that you guys think keeping Ryan Anderson, he of only 22 games, the small sample size, and not the ideal fit next to AD, is soooooo important to this team, that you wouldn't trade him.

Edit...seriously. A guy who you also argue isn't valuable enough to get paid more than $10m in 2 years, is worth more than a top 5 pick. Seriously... That's a rare group Ryan Anderson must be in.

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I agree. I don't know why it's so taboo to think of moving Ryan Anderson. After Eric Gordon, he's the first piece I'd want to move. I'm pretty sure they'll mess up the construction of this roster and have people out of place. I always think of how we can break the mold and be like the Spurs. A small market team that can actually win it all. With Anthony Davis, we've got a glimmer of hope, but I wouldn't bank on Ryan Anderson.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

See - now that is a legit complaint. If Dell is thinking more short term, maybe that is something we should worry about.

But Ryno was the most impactful player on our team last year because of how much space he gave everybody else. But it looks like that is the core of our disagreement and neither of us are going to change each others minds. And I am fine with that.

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MM.. I agree.

Ryan Anderson was the most impactful player on our team last year because of how much space he gave everybody else

But what if we replace our Small Forwards, who were terrible, with a 3pt shooter. Then doesn't that diminish how important Ryan Anderson is considering our SFs have been a liability on offense?! If someone else is capable of jacking up 7 three pointers a game and hitting at a good clip, do we really need Ryan? Now also imagine, in a world where we sign a Center like Hawes, we've got another player jacking up three pointers and hitting at a decent clip.

I've never said a healthy Ryan Anderson, based on current personnel and roster construction isn't extremely valuable. But what I keep arguing is that Dell has an opportunity to change the roster construction, which would diminish Ryan's value. I don't think we have a core 4 yet, and won't until a group of 4 guys demonstrate that they can compete in the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

MM.. I agree.

Ryan Anderson was the most impactful player on our team last year because of how much space he gave everybody else

But what if we replace our Small Forwards, who were terrible, with a 3pt shooter. Then doesn't that diminish how important Ryan Anderson is considering our SFs have been a liability on offense?! If someone else is capable of jacking up 7 three pointers a game and hitting at a good clip, do we really need Ryan? Now also imagine, in a world where we sign a Center like Hawes, we've got another player jacking up three pointers and hitting at a decent clip.

I've never said a healthy Ryan Anderson, based on current personnel and roster construction isn't extremely valuable. But what I keep arguing is that Dell has an opportunity to change the roster construction, which would diminish Ryan's value. I don't think we have a core 4 yet, and won't until a group of 4 guys demonstrate that they can compete in the playoffs.

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A good shooting SF is far different because he doesnt bring a big out of the lane.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

A good shooting SF is far different because he doesnt bring a big out of the lane.

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Pair a good shooting SF with a Center like Hawes and what happens...

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

A good shooting SF is far different because he doesnt bring a big out of the lane.

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Another thing to add to this is that a SF who can shoot for the Pelicans will stop the opposing team putting a SF on Ryan Anderson.
Now they have to play thier PF on Ryan.

I'm also holding my breath waiting for someone to come up with the list of players that won't be worth more than $10m/yr on their next deals, but are also worth more than a top 5 pick in a good draft.

Only guys I could come up with will be 30 when they hit free agency. And I think their teams would probably trade them, and I think they also might get over $10m a year. So I'm stuck.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

Another thing to add to this is that a SF who can shoot for the Pelicans will stop the opposing team putting a SF on Ryan Anderson.
Now they have to play thier PF on Ryan.

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I get all this on the offensive end, but like MM likes to say...you got two ends to the basketball court. If I felt good about Ryan Anderson or Anthony Davis guarding Marc Gasol or Dwight Howard, this conversation about trading Anderson for a top 5 might be different.

I don't think Monty is comfortable sacrificing defense for offense.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

I get all this on the offensive end, but like MM likes to say...you got two ends to the basketball court. If I felt good about Ryan Anderson or Anthony Davis guarding Marc Gasol or Dwight Howard, this conversation about trading Anderson for a top 5 might be different.

I don't think Monty is comfortable sacrificing defense for offense.

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I guess you think that Davis will always be a PF.
I don't....I think he will play both.

Everyone but Davis is an asset and to think otherwise is crazy. Do we need another good center? Yes, but not to the effect of breaking down the team. We need a little stability and not flip flopping our roster every couple of years. We can roll out Ryno at the 4 and Davis at the 5 for most of the game and do well. What we are looking for is someone to probably give us 15-20 minutes a game and/or grow into a solid full time center. I think Embiid could do it and he'd be on a time limit to start. But If you would get rid of Ryan it better be for a solid 3 and then your still going to have to get a good center to give you 30ish minutes a game. This whole thread was about getting into the top 5 and I don't think it will happen. I'm still on the Monroe wagon which whether you like it or not is a Dell kind of move. A not to young player that shouldn't have to be taught the game. MM is right, Dell besides the 2012 draft has traded most of his picks especially 1st rounders. I think if he gets a pick fairly high I'm betting its going to be in a bigger deal for a veteran player but thats just my feeling. If its a later pick I think its to grab a project SF.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I've seen you make this claim before and called you out on it. The above statement is absolutely, without question, FALSE. By tons of media and multiple people on this board Tyreke was overpaid. That's the entire reason we got him was we offered more than the Kings were willing to match. Jrue was argued to be on an acceptable contract but others have said because it goes up over 11M it's actually overpaid for his production. Ryno is the only one that was signed to a contract that would be considered undervalue and it was only because it was after a big change and with questions about how much of his a production was tied to Dwight that we got him for undervalue.

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I said the consensus here. I wasn't talking about the media. For the record I think Evans was overpaid which remains to be seen.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Not everybody in those situations gets overpaid. First of all, Jrue extended before he got the All-Star birth. Like Steph Curry, he would have gotten more if he waited the year and hit the market but went for security. I already explained to you why Ryno will never see huge money. And Tyreke was perceived to be regressing after what many deemed a spectacular rookie year, though his last year in Sacto was actually better. Also, Tyreke is seen as unconventional; doesn't have a clear cut position.

Not every guy gets overpaid in that position, but a lot of them certainly do. I don't mind debate with you - and it happens a lot since we rarely agree - but I just ask that you don't exaggerate my points. That is called a straw man fallacy. I never said "every player coming off a rookie deal gets overpaid." Disagree with me, thats fine. Just don't disagree with a radicalized version of me because that makes it easier for you.

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Fair enough.