2014 Playoffs - Geaux CP3

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Tyreke is listed as a SF.

And Lillard doesn't even have the highest assist % on his team. Williams has him beat and Batum is within 4% of him.

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I understand what you are trying to say but Lillard truly plays the point for that team...

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Originally Posted by DirtySouf

I understand what you are trying to say but Lillard truly plays the point for that team...

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Only 66% of the time based off play-by-play. But like I said, he doesn't even lead the team in the category that most represents what a PG does. He isn't top 10 in total assists, he isn't top 20 in assists per game, he isn't top 20 in assist %. But he's a top 5 PG? Nah. Best case argument that can be made by people calling him a PG is he's a SG forced to play out of position.

Don't understand why Stotts is having Lillard guard Parker.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Only 66% of the time based off play-by-play. But like I said, he doesn't even lead the team in the category that most represents what a PG does. He isn't top 10 in total assists, he isn't top 20 in assists per game, he isn't top 20 in assist %. But he's a top 5 PG? Nah. Best case argument that can be made by people calling him a PG is he's a SG forced to play out of position.

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I understand. But he is their starting PG. The offense they run doesn't always allow for double digit assists...

I'm not sure I'd put him in the top 5 yet but I'd be ok giving him the last shot any day...

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Originally Posted by DirtySouf

I understand. But he is their starting PG. The offense they run doesn't always allow for double digit assists...

I'm not sure I'd put him in the top 5 yet but I'd be ok giving him the last shot any day...

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Is taking the last shot some sort of prerequisite to being a PG? Miami doesn't have a ring last year without Allen taking the last shot 3. Is he a PG?

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Is taking the last shot some sort of prerequisite to being a PG? Miami doesn't have a ring last year without Allen taking the last shot 3. Is he a PG?

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You are way off on this one... I never said that a last shot has anything to do with a PG. I am simply saying that Lillard is Portland's starting PG, that's it... Just watch the game that's going on now and you can probably see what I'm talking about...

I commented on the other discussion about him being the best PG in the game and said that he is not yet in my top 5. I was giving him props for being a clutch shooter by saying that I wouldn't mind him taking my last shot...

I'm grinning every time the spurs pick and roll Lopez and Lillard to death. See Houston, this is what you do to those two.

Meanwhile, were back here fishing.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Meanwhile, were back here fishing.

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One of the advantages to living on a river, imo.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Only 66% of the time based off play-by-play. But like I said, he doesn't even lead the team in the category that most represents what a PG does. He isn't top 10 in total assists, he isn't top 20 in assists per game, he isn't top 20 in assist %. But he's a top 5 PG? Nah. Best case argument that can be made by people calling him a PG is he's a SG forced to play out of position.

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This is like saying Mario Chalmers or Derrick Fisher aren't point guards, or Noah and Marc Gasol aren't centers. Different players at different position play different roles for their respective teams. Some PG's are asked to defend and hit open shots, some are asked to get the team into the offense, some are ask to create looks for other teammates, and some are asked to get their own offense. That doesn't mean they aren't all PG's.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

That doesn't mean they are all PG's.

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That's kinda my whole point.

Well no it's not. Your point is that he isn't a pg because he doesn't have great assist numbers (which doesn't say much, half the people mocked GV last year even though he was #2 in the league in assists). Your saying because he doesn't pass he isn't a great pg. What da throne is saying (and correct me if I am wrong da throne) is that he doesn't have to pass to be considered a pg. he can do a million different things, it doesn't mean he isn't a pg. He is, and he is amazing at his job.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

That's kinda my whole point.

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Typo clearly I meant "aren't".

He's good at one thing, shooting. Below average at the rim, below average distribution and rebounding, and absolutely terrible at defense.

Why are we arguing about "positions" like point guard and shooting guard when they really don't exist. You have a lead guard who brings the ball up and starts the play. That lead guard may be a distributor, a scorer, or a mixture of both. Usually, you'd like to have 1 distributor and 1 scorer on the floor at guard, but let's not try to stereotype them. Lillard is a lead guard who is more of a scorer than a distributor, but it doesn't matter whether or not he is labeled a PG or SG, IMO.

Certainly not worth all the hype he is getting though. The kid is good, but he really makes his name by hitting big shots. He disappears often though. I remember last year when he hit the game winner against us, but he had a terrible game, and everyone was freaking out until his stat line was pointed out.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Typo clearly I meant "aren't".

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I know. Just thought it was funny and went with it.

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Originally Posted by Kumar

He's good at one thing, shooting. Below average at the rim, below average distribution and rebounding, and absolutely terrible at defense.

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I said the same thing about Ryno and people here believe that he's a top caliber player in the league. You are arguing the exact opposite of that with Lillard. When is ok to be good at 1 thing and suck at others and when is it not?

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Originally Posted by UptownFuz504

I said the same thing about Ryno and people here believe that he's a top caliber player in the league. You are arguing the exact opposite of that with Lillard. When is ok to be good at 1 thing and suck at others and when is it not?

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When one player is 6'10 and causes matchup issues for the other team and the other plays a position flush with really good shooters.


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Originally Posted by HornetsFan90277

When one player is 6'10 and causes matchup issues for the other team and the other plays a position flush with really good shooters.


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Ok. You keep telling yourself that.

Why do players either have to suck or be great? Is there no in between?

Both Ryno and Lillard are very good complimentary pieces. Ryno is probably somewhere between 40 and 50 and Lillard is somewhere between 25 and 35.

Why does it have to be one extreme or the other?


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I agree, I think both are great at what they do (Ryno creating space, Lillard setting the tone). Whoever compared Lillard to what we thought we were getting in Gordon is right. He is that high impact, change a game type player. He gets to the rack, and while he might not finish somebody is fouling him to get him there so he impacts the way the opponent can play him. I like him and think in the future he and AD will be battling for MVP's.

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Originally Posted by UptownFuz504

Ok. You keep telling yourself that.

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You asked for the difference between them when they have close to the same flaws. Is it tougher to find a 4 that is in the top 5 of made three point attempts or a lead scoring guard that does the same? Both are an elite skill but only one brings a would be rebounder out of the paint while the other does not.


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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Why do players either have to suck or be great? Is there no in between?

Both Ryno and Lillard are very good complimentary pieces. Ryno is probably somewhere between 40 and 50 and Lillard is somewhere between 25 and 35.

Why does it have to be one extreme or the other?


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I personally don't think that it has to be 1 or the other. I was just curious how being really good at 1 skill and ok at others makes 1 guy overrated but the other guy good. I've seen you post that Ryno is top 40 or 50 before so if every player in this league was made available for a draft, Ryno would be your 1st or 2nd pick? There are 30 teams so top 40 or 50 would make him a team's 1st or 2nd pick. Just curious.

Reply I made elsewhere, but figured could stand to be posted here as well:

I used to sit in front of the tv, or sit in the Arena (now the Smoothie King Center) and watch the opponent rain down jumpers of all varieties on the Hornets/Pelicans all night long. I always thought to myself, and would often get very irritated at this fact, why do all these teams always get hot against us? Why is it always us? Then I actually started going back and focusing on the game within the game, and come to find out these teams are "hot" against us because our defense sucks. We're constantly missing rotations, late on rotations, late on getting out to contest shots. They aren't hot, they're just hitting their open shots, like you would expect an NBA team to do. Back to San Antonio-Portland, maybe Portland could get away with it if they were playing the Bucks, or the 76ers, but they won't win they're playing a Title contender like the Spurs. They aren't hot, they're just doing what is expected of them, and that's making the open shots that Portland is giving up.

I've always said, if you're not out to contest an NBA shooter by the time he starts his shot motion, you're too late. So take this image below of Tony Parker and Nicolas Batum. Batum has his hands at his side, a couple feet from Parker who has already started his motion.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...969-U10500.jpg


Or this one, where Wesley Matthews is late to contest on Patty Mills.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...257-U10500.jpg


Robin Lopez was playing off the PnR, so Timmy is left open for the elbow jumper.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...450-U10500.jpg


This particular play, Lillard gets caught up on a screen set by Duncan and he doesn't get out to Marco.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...504-U10500.jpg


Complete defensive breakdown.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...549-U10500.jpg


Lillard gets caught up on Duncans screen and Lopez is hanging back in the paint, Parker gets an open midrange jumper off the PnR.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...579-U10500.jpg


Same thing as above.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...682-U10500.jpg


Another failed PnR execution defensively.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...710-U10500.jpg


They only ran Marco off of 3-4 screens last night, but he scored every time.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...745-U10500.jpg


Another example of Marco off a screen.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...788-U10500.jpg


San Antonio is full of guys who space the floor and hit open shots. So if you leave them open, they will get "hot." They're open because quite frankly Portland's defense sucks, and it has for quite some time. Also going back to the shot motion and Spurs shooters, alot of those guys are considered open as soon as the ball touches their hands. If you can't disrupt their initial shot motion, they will hit the shot. They were the #1 spot up team in the league, after all.

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Originally Posted by UptownFuz504

I personally don't think that it has to be 1 or the other. I was just curious how being really good at 1 skill and ok at others makes 1 guy overrated but the other guy good. I've seen you post that Ryno is top 40 or 50 before so if every player in this league was made available for a draft, Ryno would be your 1st or 2nd pick? There are 30 teams so top 40 or 50 would make him a team's 1st or 2nd pick. Just curious.

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How does top 40-50 with 30 teams mean he's a 1st round pick? It means he's a solid middle to late 2nd round pick in your scenario. And yeah. If every player was made available and it went round robin for picking players I think he'd be selected in the 2nd round. Worst case whoever picked Dwight I have no doubt would pick him.

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