2021 NBA Draft Discussion

It's be just as silly to use a 10th pick on Kispert as it was to use an 11th pick on Doug McDermott. And you can still sign Dougy McBuckets this year as a UFA.

Just looking at the top 5 picks, the team that stands out to me is Toronto. Sure enough, after they landed that 4th pick, their GM said this:

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"The value from (pick No.) 7 to 4, even if you look at it historically, whether it's the player or a trade, it's meaningful. All of our options are open and as much as we love the pick, we're also going to see what it yields outside of the draft," he stated, according to TSN's Josh Lewenberg.

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I can think of a few things I'd toss their way for that 4th pick.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Just looking at the top 5 picks, the team that stands out to me is Toronto. Sure enough, after they landed that 4th pick, their GM said this:



I can think of a few things I'd toss their way for that 4th pick.

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Who would u draft with the 4th pick?


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Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

Who would u draft with the 4th pick?


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Only if Mobley or Green was there

My issue with Kispert is he's not going to come in to the league shooting like Duncan Robinson.

The list of guys who came into the league great movement shooters day 1 in the last 20 years is 3 guys (Korver, Curry, Thompson). All of whom shot 3s on higher volume than Kispert in college.

So what if it takes Kispert time to figure it out? It took some guys until their 2nd or third teams.

And it's not like Cam Johnson, Bane, Nesmith, Bey where he has other abilities to fall back on if he can't figure it out right away. He's not an off the dribble threat or a great passer and defensively he's not impactful. He's pretty good attacking closeouts and around the rim, but not exceptionally good or anything.

He does have size though which helps. I just don't know if he's a lottery pick if he's shooting under 6 3s a game in the NBA, even if the percentages are good. It's not hard to find your guy if you're just looking for a guy who hits open ones at 40%.

I'm on the kispert train, I would take a chance on him being the Pelicans Joe Harris.

He shot 60/40/90 this year.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

My issue with Kispert is he's not going to come in to the league shooting like Duncan Robinson.

The list of guys who came into the league great movement shooters day 1 in the last 20 years is 3 guys (Korver, Curry, Thompson). All of whom shot 3s on higher volume than Kispert in college.

So what if it takes Kispert time to figure it out? It took some guys until their 2nd or third teams.

And it's not like Cam Johnson, Bane, Nesmith, Bey where he has other abilities to fall back on if he can't figure it out right away. He's not an off the dribble threat or a great passer and defensively he's not impactful. He's pretty good attacking closeouts and around the rim, but not exceptionally good or anything.

He does have size though which helps. I just don't know if he's a lottery pick if he's shooting under 6 3s a game in the NBA, even if the percentages are good. It's not hard to find your guy if you're just looking for a guy who hits open ones at 40%.

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The college 3 pt line has been moved back the last 3 years. So you're going to see guys shooting translate to the pros a lot more accurately moving forward.

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Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

Who would u draft with the 4th pick?


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Suggs or Green if one is still there.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Suggs or Green if one is still there.

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And what if one is not still there?

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

And what if one is not still there?

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Mobley but he is probably going 2 or 3. It really just is a case of who falls to that spot

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

The college 3 pt line has been moved back the last 3 years. So you're going to see guys shooting translate to the pros a lot more accurately moving forward.

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It's still a different game. Kispert has deep range, that's not my concern. It's that that he's a mostly squared to the basket shooter with a low (albeit pretty quick) release. NBA defenses are smarter and are going to make him take tougher shots on the move.

I still think Kispert is going to be good, but it wouldn't shock me if he's either a low volume guy or a sub 40% guy his first two years, at which point we'll wish we went a different direction at 10. Don't think he's going to come in to the league shooting 47% on volume like Joe Harris

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

It's still a different game. Kispert has deep range, that's not my concern. It's that that he's a mostly squared to the basket shooter with a low (albeit pretty quick) release. NBA defenses are smarter and are going to make him take tougher shots on the move.

I still think Kispert is going to be good, but it wouldn't shock me if he's either a low volume guy or a sub 40% guy his first two years, at which point we'll wish we went a different direction at 10. Don't think he's going to come in to the league shooting 47% on volume like Joe Harris

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Your analysis is incorrect. He is deadly accurate off pick and roll and pull ups. You need to watch more film on this guy. He is always moving. He?s very good circling screens and pulling up.

Still a month and 2 days away boys. So close, yet so far.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Only if Mobley or Green was there

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Too many on this board are low on Suggs. Dude is gonna be a stud and is the perfect 2 guard for this team. He reminds me of a more polished Jamal Murray coming out. We're always complaining about our stars not being 'clutch' enough in the final moments of games, Suggs is the most proven prospect of the big 4, down the stretch. Anytime the big moment presented itself, dude would never shy away and he usually came through for his team. We desperately need someone like him.

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Originally Posted by RUFshreve

Too many on this board are low on Suggs. Dude is gonna be a stud and is the perfect 2 guard for this team. He reminds me of a more polished Jamal Murray coming out. We're always complaining about our stars not being 'clutch' enough in the final moments of games, Suggs is the most proven prospect of the big 4, down the stretch. Anytime the big moment presented itself, dude would never shy away and he usually came through for his team. We desperately need someone like him.

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I'm honestly confused why the top four prospects are even being discussed further. We are not getting any of them, but if that's not the conversation then I'll see myself out.

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Originally Posted by RUFshreve

Too many on this board are low on Suggs. Dude is gonna be a stud and is the perfect 2 guard for this team. He reminds me of a more polished Jamal Murray coming out. We're always complaining about our stars not being 'clutch' enough in the final moments of games, Suggs is the most proven prospect of the big 4, down the stretch. Anytime the big moment presented itself, dude would never shy away and he usually came through for his team. We desperately need someone like him.

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To be fair....Trey Burke did that too and this board - and many others - loved him too. There are tons of guys who were great in college that didnt approach that level of success in the pros.

I think Suggs will be really good, but we have seen enough guys be clutch in college and not be that in the NBA, that we shouldnt just assume it translates

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Originally Posted by Tinman

Your analysis is incorrect. He is deadly accurate off pick and roll and pull ups. You need to watch more film on this guy. He is always moving. He?s very good circling screens and pulling up.

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Deadly accurate might be a bit overzealous.

He generated 1.044 PPP off screens. In the 69% percentile. Good but not great. Plus only 40 of his 399 field goal attempts were off screens.

57% of his field goal attempts were either spot ups or in transition. Only 10% were off screens and only 6% PnR ballhandler.

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Originally Posted by RUFshreve

Too many on this board are low on Suggs. Dude is gonna be a stud and is the perfect 2 guard for this team. He reminds me of a more polished Jamal Murray coming out. We're always complaining about our stars not being 'clutch' enough in the final moments of games, Suggs is the most proven prospect of the big 4, down the stretch. Anytime the big moment presented itself, dude would never shy away and he usually came through for his team. We desperately need someone like him.

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On top of the high IQ, has the NBA athleticism on top of that. Strong with speed and very strong on defense.

One of the few players I saw use speed and strength to push Davion Mitchell into the paint for a layup, where most other top prospects had to just try and shoot over him.

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Originally Posted by Tinman

Your analysis is incorrect. He is deadly accurate off pick and roll and pull ups. You need to watch more film on this guy. He is always moving. He?s very good circling screens and pulling up.

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I've watched more film on him than you probably. He's for sure not a true pull up shooter as of now. There've been some glimpses of on the move shooting but he still needs to step in to his shot. No shame in it though, very few shooters can adjust midair even at the NBA level.

I like the way he moves off ball which is an important skill not every shooter has, but that's not what I mean when I say 'movement shooter'

If we do draft him though I like the way he sets screens. He could do that 2 man game with Zion pretty effectively even if he doesn't improve at anything.

And I still think he'll improve just like he's done every season so far.

Darius Day returning to LSU. Takes name out draft.

https://www.tigerdroppings.com/lsu-b...ason/97040170/

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Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

Who would u draft with the 4th pick?


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Mobley or Suggs are the two players you would be looking at...

I'm honestly surprised with how much people have cooled on Suggs.

For a hot minute

It was.

Cade/Green/Suggs

Which makes sense when looking at the current landscape of the NBA. Star guards are just more valuable and sought after, but it's kind of weird how getting drummed in the National Championship game would cool you off. All year... It's been he's been a top 3 pick this and that. They lose and he still had a solid game, but the hype for him got out control.

So, getting 4th and maybe getting Mobley or Suggs was a big hope for me.

Hm...Deuce McBride. That's a NOLA first name if you ask me. I wish he were taller. But he makes up for it. Quick as hell. 6'8" wingspan on a 6'2" frame. Plus 3pt shooter. Gets after it defensively. And he's strong as hell. I wonder where he'll slip to...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bJi0G9oAjE

Mcbride has some Marcus smart to him

If they were picking later I wouldn't mind him

Playing for Huggins he has that personality this team could use

[QUOTE=Taker597;1560331]Mobley or Suggs are the two players you would be looking at...

I'm honestly surprised with how much people have cooled on Suggs.

For a hot minute

It was.

Cade/Green/Suggs
/QUOTE]

I've had it Cade/Mobley since about mid November :hihi:

I think right now I have Cade/Mobley/Green as my top three, and I think I could make an argument for about 4 different names at #4

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Hm...Deuce McBride. That's a NOLA first name if you ask me. I wish he were taller. But he makes up for it. Quick as hell. 6'8" wingspan on a 6'2" frame. Plus 3pt shooter. Gets after it defensively. And he's strong as hell. I wonder where he'll slip to...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bJi0G9oAjE

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I've got real doubts about Deuce, which is why I wouldn't take him lottery, but I do think he's very good. Frankly, if you're one of those people who has Davion Mitchell as a lottery pick there's zero reason not to have Deuce in there too. He's a better team defender and has more positive shooting indicators, even if he's less capable as a rim finisher.

�� New Orleans

— Vrenz Bleijenbergh (@Vrenzzz) July 15, 2021

Vrenz got a workout for New Orleans.

He's a mixed prospect, I definitely wouldn't take him top 20, but if he's hanging around in the 2nd round he wouldn't be a bad pickup. 6'11 with some ball skills, needs to improve his finishing but projects well as a shooter despite poor FT efficiency (shot 38% from deep on 7 attempts per 36 this year). Healthy steal and block percentages and while he's not quite the 6'11 Point Guard he claims in his Twitter bio, he does have the ability to put the ball on the floor a little and pass. Super skinny, needs to add like 30lbs, and has defensive issues as a big because of it, but there are some things there. If we end up keeping the 40th pick or whatever I'd take him, barring anyone better sliding hard.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

�� New Orleans

— Vrenz Bleijenbergh (@Vrenzzz) July 15, 2021

Vrenz got a workout for New Orleans.

He's a mixed prospect, I definitely wouldn't take him top 20, but if he's hanging around in the 2nd round he wouldn't be a bad pickup. 6'11 with some ball skills, needs to improve his finishing but projects well as a shooter despite poor FT efficiency (shot 38% from deep on 7 attempts per 36 this year). Healthy steal and block percentages and while he's not quite the 6'11 Point Guard he claims in his Twitter bio, he does have the ability to put the ball on the floor a little and pass. Super skinny, needs to add like 30lbs, and has defensive issues as a big because of it, but there are some things there. If we end up keeping the 40th pick or whatever I'd take him, barring anyone better sliding hard.

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I'm actually zeroing in on JT Thor and Deuce McBride. I would trade back and try to aquire both, but if not, I'm actually one of the few that would actually take JT Thor with our 10 pick. Can see him going in the teens and would not want to miss out on his potential.

id be stoked with this haul

MOSES MOODY
ROCKO PRACKIN
TREY MURPHY
AUSTIN REAVes

My opinion, we're only drafting 2 players this draft. Maybe a third but that would be a draft & stash guy.

Unless we find a guy with special talent and skill that went unidentified, no one we take will see the court. Unless a lot of bad things happen.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Unless we find a guy with special talent and skill that went unidentified, no one we take will see the court. Unless a lot of bad things happen.

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There are a lot of holes on our roster (well documented even in this thread). Corey Kispert would play right away, and play a lot. This said, I prefer to trade the pick for a big veteran defender (we saw how the defense improved a bit when the team traded for James Johnson last year). Zion and Ingram's 'swiss cheese' defense will continue to hold this team back for awhile.

I cant see a world where any rookie starts the year in our rotation. Actually, maybe one world - if we make a 3 or 4 for 1 type of swap, then maybe a rookie is our 7th or 8th man
But as is, with expected moves, I cant see a rookie starting the year in our top 9

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

id be stoked with this haul

MOSES MOODY
ROCKO PRACKIN
TREY MURPHY
AUSTIN REAVes

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Fully endorsing the spelling of Roko Prkačin's name as ''ROCKO PRACKIN''

Lolol

If we use the pick at 10, he should be in the rotation

kispert
moody
booknight
franz wegner

would all be in the rotation. there are several that wouldnt, but those would be playing imo

heck we had two rookies in the rotation last year. and kira's spot surely isn't solidified

I watched a couple interviews and really want Zaire Williams and Trey Murphy so I want a trade down.

Side note: Jared Butler was officially medically cleared by the NBA to be drafted, which is big for him. It wasn't disclosed exactly why he was referred to the medical panel, and it's been a tightly kept secret for years, but it's long been known he has some medical issue. You can find out what it is if you dig hard enough, but I can't remember it right now and can't be bothered to do the research.

In any case, he's a top 20 pick imo. The best handle in the class, bar none; super advanced and developed with lots of versatility and efficacy. Good shooting prospect: shot 41% on 6 per game this year, shot 39% on nearly 7 a game last year. Career 78% FT shooter, albeit it mediocre volume from the stripe. He's never going to be a lockdown defender in the NBA but he's improved consistently over his three years in college and was legitimately good this last year for Baylor. Playmaking has developed considerably over the years and while I don't think he's the starting lead ball-handler on an elite team, he can play off ball pretty well and I would have no issue with him leading a team off the bench or having him play alongside another, taller ballhandler. Sitting him next to someone like Luka would be pretty wild, for example.

Glad his health issues don't appear to be career ending.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Side note: Jared Butler was officially medically cleared by the NBA to be drafted, which is big for him. It wasn't disclosed exactly why he was referred to the medical panel, and it's been a tightly kept secret for years, but it's long been known he has some medical issue. You can find out what it is if you dig hard enough, but I can't remember it right now and can't be bothered to do the research.

In any case, he's a top 20 pick imo. The best handle in the class, bar none; super advanced and developed with lots of versatility and efficacy. Good shooting prospect: shot 41% on 6 per game this year, shot 39% on nearly 7 a game last year. Career 78% FT shooter, albeit it mediocre volume from the stripe. He's never going to be a lockdown defender in the NBA but he's improved consistently over his three years in college and was legitimately good this last year for Baylor. Playmaking has developed considerably over the years and while I don't think he's the starting lead ball-handler on an elite team, he can play off ball pretty well and I would have no issue with him leading a team off the bench or having him play alongside another, taller ballhandler. Sitting him next to someone like Luka would be pretty wild, for example.

Glad his health issues don't appear to be career ending.

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Kid is impressive. His heart condition may scare some teams off even with the clearance, but I hope he gets his chance.

If we don’t get springer and he falls to the second round, I’d love to have him. He could be our 3rd PG after we get Lillard. ��

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Originally Posted by tdcreator

If we don’t get springer and he falls to the second round, I’d love to have him. He could be our 3rd PG after we get Lillard. ��

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Springer should be a top 10 pick. If he falls to the second round it's going to be worse than when Maxey fell to the 20s last year. Criminal negligence.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Side note: Jared Butler was officially medically cleared by the NBA to be drafted, which is big for him. It wasn't disclosed exactly why he was referred to the medical panel, and it's been a tightly kept secret for years, but it's long been known he has some medical issue. You can find out what it is if you dig hard enough, but I can't remember it right now and can't be bothered to do the research.

In any case, he's a top 20 pick imo. The best handle in the class, bar none; super advanced and developed with lots of versatility and efficacy. Good shooting prospect: shot 41% on 6 per game this year, shot 39% on nearly 7 a game last year. Career 78% FT shooter, albeit it mediocre volume from the stripe. He's never going to be a lockdown defender in the NBA but he's improved consistently over his three years in college and was legitimately good this last year for Baylor. Playmaking has developed considerably over the years and while I don't think he's the starting lead ball-handler on an elite team, he can play off ball pretty well and I would have no issue with him leading a team off the bench or having him play alongside another, taller ballhandler. Sitting him next to someone like Luka would be pretty wild, for example.

Glad his health issues don't appear to be career ending.

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he's kinda like a better Etuan Moore

RIP
to all the true centers out there

charles bassey and luka garza would have been freaggin lotto picks a decade or so ago

they shoulda tried to enter the league a few years back

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I cant see a world where any rookie starts the year in our rotation. Actually, maybe one world - if we make a 3 or 4 for 1 type of swap, then maybe a rookie is our 7th or 8th man
But as is, with expected moves, I cant see a rookie starting the year in our top 9

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Jalen Suggs can start for this team. Scottie Barnes, Davion Mitchell and Chris Duarte (in that order) could be in our top 9 depending on the other moves made this offseason.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Springer should be a top 10 pick. If he falls to the second round it's going to be worse than when Maxey fell to the 20s last year. Criminal negligence.

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I don't see Springer as a top 20 player in this draft.

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

he's kinda like a better Etuan Moore

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If E'twaun Moore was about 35 times better on-ball

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Originally Posted by socbe7

I don't see Springer as a top 20 player in this draft.

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Well, I disagree *shrug* He's very good.

I feel like my tiers at this point are something like this.

Tier 1
- Cade

Tier 2
- Mobley
- Green

Tier 3
- Suggs
- Springer
- Moody
- Giddey

Tier 4
- Sharife Cooper
- Jalen Johnson
- Scottie Barnes
- Roko Prkacin
- Franz Wagner
- Keon Johnson
- Jonathan Kuminga
- Usman Garuba
- Alperen Sengun

Tier 5
- Ziaire Williams
- JT Thor
- Corey Kispert
- Jared Butler
- James Bouknight
- Bones Hyland
- Kai Jones
- Deuce McBride
- Tre Mann
- Davion Mitchell
- Josh Christopher
- Isaiah Jackson
- Trey Murphy
- Chris Duarte

Something like that

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Originally Posted by socbe7

Jalen Suggs can start for this team. Scottie Barnes, Davion Mitchell and Chris Duarte (in that order) could be in our top 9 depending on the other moves made this offseason.

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I took his post as accounting for future FA moves. We're bound to bring in a couple of guys. And I agree with MM. With our young talent already on our team and after we pull in a vet or two and hopefully usher Bled off someplace else....I just don't see a rookie breaking through. The size of our treasure trove of assets and the youth currently on our team cannot be overstated.

Lets say a mild offseason. You trade Bledsoe for someone like Taurean Prince. You keep Lonzo because nobody wants to give you picks in a S&T. Bring back Hart too because nobody is beating down his door. Sign someone like a Burks or a Bobby Portis with the MLE. Bring Willy back. Again, nothing major. But now you got:

NAW-Lonzo-Kira-Naji-Burks-Ingram-Hart-Zion-Prince-Adams-Hayes-Willy

Thats 12 guys. Havent included Didi, who our FO wants to see get some reps. Now, you take Moody or Wagner or even Kispert at 10, lets say. What 4 guys are they definietly playing over right away? We giving Hart DNP's? And Naji? Kira not gonna get minutes too?

The issue when people think of rookies is that they think of who they will be ONE DAY and then mistakenly put that projection into day 1 and think they could/should play above guys who arent great, but are better players right now. Barring 3-5 of those guys I listed not being on the roster and them not being replaced with anybody of value, we arent gonna have rookies in our regular rotation for at least the first half of the season. Not in a year where they are dead set on getting into the playoffs