Well if the choice was between Omri and Miller. I am choosing Miller because 1) he is gonna be cheaper and 2) he knows the system already.
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And works in the locker room.
I hate using the 2K analogy all the time, but I think it applies here. Is Casspi a slightly more skilled player? Probably - by a little bit.
But the coaches already know how Miller fits in the locker room. They already know how he works in practice, how he handles criticism, his work ethic, etc. They don't have to teach him the system. In fact, they can have him pull a new guy aside and teach him little things about it.
Those are all huge things that don't get reflected in basketball reference numbers or in NBA 2K attribute points. They are not fun for the fan to talk about or really a known quantifiable, but they are real. If Casspi was a much better basketball player, sure choose Casspi. But if it is close, you go with all those things Miller brings.
Also, where did you get the data that Casspi is better spot up shooter? Darius Miller was better at both 2-pt catch and shoots and 3-pt catch and shoots last year.
I agree with this. Miller is a locker room guy who already knows Monty and the system. Is he the best skilled? Not, not really. But he's servicable and can hop in on Day 1, and know what's going on. He knows the team, and they know him. That's a good thing. Add that to the fact that he's cheap. And it's a perfect choice.
Don't know if there is a difference between catch and shoot or "spot-up" or maybe the numbers you have are just from Salmons part of the season in Toronto, but NBA stats tool has him as 42.6% from three on catch and shoots. Not a big deal, but still.
Regardless, that is a different argument than we were discussing. You preferred Wesley Johnson to Salmons. Fine. But we were discussing Omri vs. Miller. Because it sounds like that is the choice the Pels made by letting Casspi go. Salmons is a different issue.
In a Salmons thread? I'm discussing the myth that he was "the best" or "one of the best" spot up 3pt shooters. I took all of my numbers from Synergy and looked specifically at Spot-Up 3pt shooting. And he was clearly beat by MULTIPLE other players in the list that you, yourself provided.
I then in turn answered the question you asked about Miller by using the stat you yourself tried to sell Salmon on us with, Spot-Up 3pt shooting. Casspi according to Synergy was a clearly better spot-up 3PT%.
I remember Miller producing pretty well last year when asked to step up a couple times. Better corner 3-pt shooter. Better catch and shoot guy.
Look, we are talking about 11th-13th men. I don't think it is worth a huge fuss either way. But I think most, if not all, coaching staffs would choose the guy they are familiar with and intangibles if it is this close.
I don't dislike Miller's game as I do AFA, I just think between the 2 Casspi would be better for us. But we are talking about a backup 3 at a position who isn't going to get that much PT. Not really a big deal to me just my opinion. I'm more worried about Salmons than I am who his backup is.
Great post. There really aren't any good justifications for this signing other then overvaluing vet leadership over production.
This board seems to be trying to find a way to rationalize and like this signing.
But I have to ask, if we had signed anyone else on that list I can't imagine anyone here would be on this board crying about how Salmons would of been the better choice. Because before we signed him no one thought that. It just seems that now that we did choose him over others that people are trying to find reasons to like the signing.
Great post. There really aren't any good justifications for this signing other then overvaluing vet leadership over production.
This board seems to be trying to find a way to rationalize and like this signing.
But I have to ask, if we had signed anyone else on that list I can't imagine anyone here would be on this board crying about how Salmons would of been the better choice. Because before we signed him no one thought that. It just seems that now that we did choose him over others that people are trying to find reasons to like the signing.
There are also other factors that people are unaware of that went into this signing that I won't get into. But let's just say that they had limited options and they chose what they chose.
I am not trying to rationalize it as much as I am trying to say that those who don't like the Salmons signing are making those 20 minutes a game out to be far more important than they actually will be. This team will win or lose because of Davis and the other 5 core guys. Not because they have Salmons or don't have Wesley Johnson. That is the argument on the other side.
The biggest disconnect is people who defend this signing see it as how much he will play when everyone is healthy. I'm looking at it from the situation we will find ourselves in when Tyreke misses his 10 games and Gordon misses his 15+.
We can live in fairyland where everyone stays healthy the entire season but I'd rather be a realist and look at the past to indicate how much time the RLE SF we have will get. This is where the being upset comes from. Because Salmons is trash on the court.
I don't think anyone flat out likes the signing, including MM. But those who you are referring to probably just don't deem it as being that serious to get worked up over and don't view Salmons as THAT much better or worse than (insert FA SF here) for the money we had to offer. Some of us also recognize that we don't know what other outside factors may have been at play to sign Salmons...maybe the other available FA's are seeking more than a 1 year commitment (someone said they had insider info that we really wanted Alan Anderson but he went elsewhere), maybe they wanted a chance at a true SF starting role unlike the one we probably have...don't know.
So instead of slamming the move before we have any context, some try to rationalize what the motivation could be. Most here acknowledge that one of the main things needed out of our starting SF was to be a three point shooting threat. Salmons is that, if absolutely nothing else, and is only signed to a cheap one-year rental. He is also a guy who has been around for a while and has playoff experience. Those aren't reasons trying to "sell" the move, but just pointing out what he has over or par to other FA's that may have led to the decision and make decent sense.
I personally think a big part of the backlash is not knowing why Casspi was included in the trade just to get cut, aside from just a personal choice of roster spot. I don't get it either, but maybe we'll get some explanation today in the presser.
That, I agree with. If Jrue, Tyreke, or Gordon goes down, there will be a hole. I guess I just don't think Wesley Johnson or Jordan Hamilton would have plugged that hole much better. Huge drop off either way. You call Salmons trash. Maybe. I don't think, relatively speaking, there were many non-trash options. We couldn't have gotten Marion, and after that, you are looking at guys on a similar tier. The Pels chose one piece of trash over another.
Gotta hope for the core to be amazing (which is possible) and for other guys to be able to give some minutes at the 3 - be it Babbitt, Miller, or the SL spot winner.
People also need to realize that you don't build a team in a vacuum. There are so many factors that go into each signing, waiver, trade, etc. We aren't privy to the inside info, so we can't truly judge the big picture.
Exactly. There was a reason the Salmons deal was for 2 million. A reason that they didn't use the full 2.7 allowed. But people don't know that, so they assume and come up with other ideas that just were not actually available to Dell.
He was more limited than most are assuming.
At this point, I am not convinced they shouldn't be considering Babbitt and two SL guys....
Babbitt has a spot. So, you are saying another SL guy over Miller?
Possible. I would just ask people to remember that Miller has helped us win games in the NBA against real teams (Couldn't have beat OKC or LAC w/o him last year), while these other guys are showing out in SL. Heck, bring them all to camp. If two guys beat out Darius, then so be it. No need to decide right this minute.
Agreed. Seems to be a consistent theme lately. There was a lot of patting Demps' back on getting Casspi thrown in to the Asik deal. Once it was learned that Casspi was to be released, there was justification based on how bad a player and locker room guy he is. Then we sign Salmons for more than league minimum and again, a lot of justification about how he fits and how great certain aspects of his game is. The same happened last year when we signed Steimsma. We heard a lot of the same arguments (i.e. he will only play 18-20 minutes and not be on the floor as a finisher. He is a perfect fit for this team, etc.). There was a time when I really liked Salmons. I think those days have passed. I could be wrong, but that's my opinion.