Truncated Offseason Thread

Griff knocked it out the park getting Aquaman. Especially if he resigns.


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Calling Rondae Hollis Jefferson

I go for Dewayne Dedmon and Nic Batum for the lasts roster spot. Or maybe take a chance on Chris Boucher.

Free agent center Willy Hernangomez has agreed to a one-year, minimum deal with the New Orleans Pelicans, agent Guillermo Bermejo of YouFirst and Tandem Sports tells @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) November 22, 2020

...That's fine.

He's fine. I hope he doesn't play much, I'd much rather have Jax getting those minutes, but as a 3rd centre that's okay.

E'twaun Moore is signing with the Phoenix Suns on a one-year deal for $2.4 million, according to his agent Mark Bartelstein of @PrioritySports

— Marc Stein (@TheSteinLine) November 22, 2020

Okay so that S&T option is out of the window.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ozwego15

Free agent center Willy Hernangomez has agreed to a one-year, minimum deal with the New Orleans Pelicans, agent Guillermo Bermejo of YouFirst and Tandem Sports tells @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) November 22, 2020

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That's just insurance for whatever happens if players get injured or have to quarantine

I would love Glenn Robinson III though. Sign him and I'm pretty much content.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Why would you want us to sign Thon Maker or Frank Kaminsky when they're both really bad at basketball?

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I think Kaminsky is damn good at offensive basketball. He?s crafty with a variety of spin moves with some up & unders. Career 35% from 3. He?s terrible at rebounding & defense, but offensively he?s good IMO. But he’s also too skinny. I like Thon cause he?s long, athletic, high energy 7 footer that can hit 3s to an extent that can also block shots. I mainly like him cause he would likely be cheap.

But I?ll take Willy Hernangomez I guess cause he?s high energy as well. Think I would rather Juancho the other Hernangomez cause he?s a better 3 point shooter % wise

I'll just bump this nugget back up every few days to remind everyone how extreme Zo haters like to show their ignorance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AusPel

You guys are gonna want to read this......



Long thread from Shamit explaining a possible reason for the delay. TL;DR They may need cap space to do a S&T of Kenrich/Frank/Cheatham and creating that cap space may involve waiting on Charlotte to finish it's moves getting Hayward and then they can trade for Lonzo.

Shamit Dua @FearTheBrown 1h

Okay night owls, I've been racking my brain on how this Jrue deal is going to work (financially) all day and so here is a thread on some possibilities. Bear with me, this gets confusing quickly. 1/x

The Pelicans need to add somewhere between $2.8M+ (don't know the exact number because of Adam's trade kicker) to make this thing work legally. Let's just say a small contract's amount. Easiest way to do that is sign and trade a small contract. Simple, right?
2/x

Well it depends on the contract. Someone like E'twaun Moore makes it very easy. If he agrees to sign to that small amount over three years. He probably won't. Enter Kenrich, Frank, or even Zylan Cheatham.
3/x

Sign and trades MUST be three years, and the first year must be fully guaranteed. No options allowed. Great. Well if the Pelicans operate above the cap, they can do a few things.

1) Use only one of Frank or Kenrich.
2) Use both Frank AND Kenrich.

The problem with using only ONE of Frank or Kenrich is Base Year Comp. Basically their outgoing salary will only count for half of their actual salary. In order to reach the $2.8M number, you're actually paying them ~$6M. Over 3 years that looks like 3/$16-18M. Yikes
5/x

So chances are teams aren't doing that, because that's a lot of money, even if you don't guarantee the last 2 years.

Easier to sign both of them respectively to an amount that won't trigger BYC ( league minimum salary). That added up *should* get you there.
6/x

They still need to be signed for 3 years (last two years can be non-guaranteed). You can't use the min exception to sign and trade them. But the Pels have Bird Rights on Frank and Early Bird Rights on Kenrich. This is the path of least resistance.
7/x

We still following? Because now we get wild.

Another way to NOT trigger BYC is if you are actually a cap space team and not operating over the cap. And you are using your cap space to sign and trade.

Now why would the Pelicans need to do that?
8/x

Well let's say one of Frank or Kenrich isn't amenable to the above agreement. They don't want to sign on for 3 years at the minimum with 2 years non guaranteed. Maybe they have a deal elsewhere lined up. Enter Zylan Cheatham.
9/x.

Unlike Frank or Kenrich, the Pels don't have any kind of Early of Full Bird rights on Zylan. He can only be signed and traded using cap room. You can't use MLE or BAE to do it (it's in da rules).

You need to open enough cap space to sign one (or both) to the $2.8+ number. 10/x

Unlike before, in this case you can actually give that $2.8M/yr to one guy. It's clean and you don't have to worry about BYC. By my count, the Pels are already $1.39M under the cap and would only need another $1.4ish more to open.

This means NO MLE or BAE available.
11/x

The benefit of splitting this room into two players is that you can sign Zylan to a rookie min (800k) and send him to Milwaukee for cheap labor (helps their hard cap) and send one of Frank or Kenrich elsewhere.

So how to open the room?
12/x

You can trade any of your existing contracts for a smaller contract. So that means JJ, NAW, Lonzo, Hayes. Melli etc.

The EASIEST way to do it is to flip a highly paid rookie scale guy for a lower paid rookie scale guy(s).

Lonzo is the EASIEST one to accomplish this with.
13/x

Are we ready for the conspiracy? What if the reason this trade is being held up is because we're trying to get Lonzo to Charlotte with his brother and we're waiting to see what happens with Charlotte's cap space?
14/x

Depending on what Charlotte decides to do with Hayward (sign and trade someone or stretch Batum), Charlotte has a few options.

1) Take Lonzo cleanly into space for future picks
2) Make an uneven trade if they don't have total space (Monk)
3) Salary Match. (Monk + something)
15/x

Honestly this logic can apply to Atlanta and New York as well. Both teams are trying to figure out what to do with their cap. But Charlotte seems a better fit for ... Big Baller reasons.

16/x

Anywho, watch this go in a completely different direction and 15 teams end up involved. But this is where my head was at today. I hope you enjoyed some cap minutia. Had to double and triple check things with @MasonGinsberg
and @42PhD
all day

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Lol. That's wild. He was sitting right there on the answer.....but couldn't quite clinch it. Because people who hate Zo are worse than crossfitters and jeep drivers combined.

Anyways. Why are you guys not considering BI a SF? Or if you are, why do we need two starting quality SFs? Because he IS essentially our starting small forward....if we're putting strict labels on positions. Zion and Hart.....and apparently SVG thinks Zo....will play a little bit there, too. Louzada may even come in and play there. So why would we go out and find a starting quality SF when the market for them is expensive and we already have it covered?

I think once we start playing and seeing the offense we'll be running, it'll be more apparent how the positions won't be strict PG, SG, SF, PF, and C.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

I'll just bump this nugget back up every few days to remind everyone how extreme Zo haters like to show their ignorance.



Lol. That's wild. He was sitting right there on the answer.....but couldn't quite clinch it.

Anyways. Why are you guys not considering BI and SF? Because he IS essentially our starting small forward....if we're putting strict labels on position. Zion and Hart.....and apparently SVG thinks Zo....will play a little bit there, too. Louzada may even come in and play there. So why would we go out and find a starting quality SF when the market for them is expensive and we already have it covered?

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Everyone IS considering BI an SF.

But he's literally our ONLY ONE.

You can say that Zo is going to function as a 3 sometimes, which he will, but he's still undersized for it and not actually a true wing. Didi is not coming over, it's alreayd been confirmed that he's staying in Aus for another year.

We have one (one) NBA calibre small forward who is actually a small forward. That's Ingram, and even he's not actually signed yet (we all know he will be, but just pointing it out).

That's a problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ozwego15

Free agent center Willy Hernangomez has agreed to a one-year, minimum deal with the New Orleans Pelicans, agent Guillermo Bermejo of YouFirst and Tandem Sports tells @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.

? Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) November 22, 2020

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Solid depth at C for once. I can dig it. We should be looking at a combo forward here whether it be the NBA, G-league, Euro League or Justice league.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

...That's fine.

He's fine. I hope he doesn't play much, I'd much rather have Jax getting those minutes, but as a 3rd centre that's okay.

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Will Jax see time at PF?

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

Will Jax see time at PF?

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Hopefully not. Just play him at C as the backup. Have Hernangomez there to fill minutes against certain matchups, to spell for injury if needed, etc, and to push Jax to keep his position, but give him that backup 20 minutes to start.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Everyone IS considering BI an SF.

But he's literally our ONLY ONE.

You can say that Zo is going to function as a 3 sometimes, which he will, but he's still undersized for it and not actually a true wing. Didi is not coming over, it's alreayd been confirmed that he's staying in Aus for another year.

We have one (one) NBA calibre small forward who is actually a small forward. That's Ingram, and even he's not actually signed yet (we all know he will be, but just pointing it out).

That's a problem.

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Zion magically can't play there anymore?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Zion magically can't play there anymore?

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The fact that you are just repeatedly pointing to people who primarily play other positions and going ''well, can't they just fill in some minutes?'' is proof of the point. If we actually had a real NBA small forward backup you'd just say it.

Lebron can play small-ball C. He has done it. He will probably do it again. If there were a Lebron team with 1 centre on the roster and someone went ''hey, we do have other centres! Lebron can do it!'' everyone would rightfully acknowledge that as nonsense.

Honestly, at this point I feel like the team is going to just assume Hart is a small forward when he isn't and run with that.

I doubt that we'll ever see him in New Orleans, but if management is so enamored with DiDi Louzada Silva why not bring him over to fill the back up SF role and see what we have? I know there is some commitments already made to the NBL, but surely that could be worked out.

This includes Adams' 7.5% trade kicker. Pels still have the non-tax MLE ($9.258M) and BAE ($3.623M) to use for their final 3 roster spots, but are fairly close to the tax line so if they use it I imagine there may be other moves in the works.

— Mason Ginsberg (@MasonGinsberg) November 22, 2020

If this team is 'so-so' at mid-year trade deadline, I wouldn't be surprised if JJ, Adams, and Lonzo are all available for draft picks and filler at that time. We might as well cash in the assets for something instead of letting them walk for nothing at the end of the year. I'm sure they want those $$$ for free agency next year.

I remember a while back Jax posted a video of himself working on his jumpshot, so I am curious to see the progress he has made in that department. Surely not enough as of yet, but he does seem to take himself seriously as a future stretch 5. Also curious to see how much weight he has added. He may be the player I am most curious to see in action apart from Kira

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

I remember a while back Jax posted a video of himself working on his jumpshot, so I am curious to see the progress he has made in that department. Surely not enough as of yet, but he does seem to take himself seriously as a future stretch 5. Also curious to see how much weight he has added. He may be the player I am most curious to see in action apart from Kira

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This could just be the product of his posture and stuff, but Jax looked a little larger in this:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

This could just be the product of his posture and stuff, but Jax looked a little larger in this:

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With even a little bit more beef and a semi competent jumpshot could make all the difference for him. Especially coming off the bench. He had all the time in the world to work on himself. Hopefully he took advantage of it because he has the most potential behind Zion

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

With even a little bit more beef and a semi competent jumpshot could make all the difference for him. Especially coming off the bench. He had all the time in the world to work on himself. Hopefully he took advantage of it because he has the most potential behind Zion

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For sure. Let's say the official measurements are accurate and he was 220lbs last season (doesn't matter if he actually was that, it's just a reference). If he's even 230lbs now, that can make quite a lot of difference, especially if most of the weight is lower body/core.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

For sure. Let's say the official measurements are accurate and he was 220lbs last season (doesn't matter if he actually was that, it's just a reference). If he's even 230lbs now, that can make quite a lot of difference, especially if most of the weight is lower body/core.

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I?m excited yet prepared for disappointment. The double edged sword all Pelican fans must endure

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Everyone IS considering BI an SF.

But he's literally our ONLY ONE.

You can say that Zo is going to function as a 3 sometimes, which he will, but he's still undersized for it and not actually a true wing. Didi is not coming over, it's alreayd been confirmed that he's staying in Aus for another year.

We have one (one) NBA calibre small forward who is actually a small forward. That's Ingram, and even he's not actually signed yet (we all know he will be, but just pointing it out).

That's a problem.

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Outside of another trade, what is left for SF options? How many of these would you be OK with on the Pels (think we need at least 2 and I may have missed where some of these already signed elsewhere):

Michael Beasley (headcase that didn't play last year)
Wilson Chandler (solid vet but best days are far behind him)
Solomon Hill (Lord help me!)
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson (can't shoot but would be OK with it)
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (OK defender but can't shoot)
Kyle Korver (old as dirt but can still shoot the lights out - would take it on a 1-year deal)
Markieff Morris (more of a PF, but solid vet that could potentially guard bigger 3's)
Andre Roberson (missed a ton of time with injury but used to be a great defender)
Glenn Robinson III (looks like the best of the bunch)
Dario Saric (RFA that we probably can't afford)
Thabo Sefolosha (long in the tooth, but might have 1 good year left)
Evan Turner (another non-shooter)
Anthony Tolliver (good 3P shooter, but that's about it)
Marvin Williams (could live with it)

Let’s get Glenn Robinson III and get ready for the season

C: Adams, Hayes, W. Hernangomez
PF: Zion, Melli
SF: BI, GRIII
SG: JJ, Hart, NAW
PG: Lonzo, Bledsoe, Kira

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pr1840

Outside of another trade, what is left for SF options? How many of these would you be OK with on the Pels (think we need at least 2 and I may have missed where some of these already signed elsewhere):

Michael Beasley (headcase that didn't play last year)
Wilson Chandler (solid vet but best days are far behind him)
Solomon Hill (Lord help me!)
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson (can't shoot but would be OK with it)
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (OK defender but can't shoot)
Kyle Korver (old as dirt but can still shoot the lights out - would take it on a 1-year deal)
Markieff Morris (more of a PF, but solid vet that could potentially guard bigger 3's)
Andre Roberson (missed a ton of time with injury but used to be a great defender)
Glenn Robinson III (looks like the best of the bunch)
Dario Saric (RFA that we probably can't afford)
Thabo Sefolosha (long in the tooth, but might have 1 good year left)
Evan Turner (another non-shooter)
Anthony Tolliver (good 3P shooter, but that's about it)
Marvin Williams (could live with it)

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Well none of them are optimal, but that's why we were all so concerned: the Adams trade, whether you liked it or not, took so long to sort out that the boat had already left on most of the good options.

For me, at this point, I guess I'd be fine with

- Wilson Chandler
- Rondae Hollis Jefferson
- Kyle Korver
- Andre Roberson

My reasoning being that Wilson Chandler is only 32 and has had some okay years, RHJ is at least semi-acceptable, Korver can't defend me at this point but will be able to shoot 40% from 3 until the sun dies, and Roberson is kind of an unknown because of how much time he missed but is at least theoretically good on defense.

And I also want to say that actually, Solomon Hill was actually pretty decent last year, was always a good locker room presence in NOLA, and I would be okay with him returning on a minimum deal.

No, he wasn't great, but he was getting paid like $13m a year and starting. That's very different expectations from vet mins off the bench.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pr1840

Outside of another trade, what is left for SF options? How many of these would you be OK with on the Pels (think we need at least 2 and I may have missed where some of these already signed elsewhere):

Michael Beasley (headcase that didn't play last year)
Wilson Chandler (solid vet but best days are far behind him)
Solomon Hill (Lord help me!)
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson (can't shoot but would be OK with it)
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (OK defender but can't shoot)
Kyle Korver (old as dirt but can still shoot the lights out - would take it on a 1-year deal)
Markieff Morris (more of a PF, but solid vet that could potentially guard bigger 3's)
Andre Roberson (missed a ton of time with injury but used to be a great defender)
Glenn Robinson III (looks like the best of the bunch)
Dario Saric (RFA that we probably can't afford)
Thabo Sefolosha (long in the tooth, but might have 1 good year left)
Evan Turner (another non-shooter)
Anthony Tolliver (good 3P shooter, but that's about it)
Marvin Williams (could live with it)

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Of that list, I'd like Wilson Chandler. Have always liked his game since day 1 with the Knicks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

The fact that you are just repeatedly pointing to people who primarily play other positions and going ''well, can't they just fill in some minutes?'' is proof of the point. If we actually had a real NBA small forward backup you'd just say it.

Lebron can play small-ball C. He has done it. He will probably do it again. If there were a Lebron team with 1 centre on the roster and someone went ''hey, we do have other centres! Lebron can do it!'' everyone would rightfully acknowledge that as nonsense.

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Not at all. BI is our starting SF. Not only is he our starting SF but he is also an all-star. He will suck up a ton of minutes. Zion is not locked in as a PF. In fact, he's a SF/PF tweener but you know this. Which makes it an interesting hill you're defending. We're going to assume Zion is healthy but if we didn't have BI, Zion very well could play primarily at SF. So that's one all-star and a potential phenom all-star now playing that position. So.....again. No need there. Especially to throw a bunch of money on.

Anyways, this is all moot because the 1 In 4 Out doesn't really need people to be designated in certain positions. Nor does todays modern NBA. We have more than enough players to cover those slots without playing them out of position.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Well none of them are optimal, but that's why we were all so concerned: the Adams trade, whether you liked it or not, took so long to sort out that the boat had already left on most of the good options.

For me, at this point, I guess I'd be fine with

- Wilson Chandler
- Rondae Hollis Jefferson
- Kyle Korver
- Andre Roberson

My reasoning being that Wilson Chandler is only 32 and has had some okay years, RHJ is at least semi-acceptable, Korver can't defend me at this point but will be able to shoot 40% from 3 until the sun dies, and Roberson is kind of an unknown because of how much time he missed but is at least theoretically good on defense.

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Agree with that list but I would add Marvin Williams.

What about Nicolas Batum?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaPelFromHell

Let’s get Glenn Robinson III and get ready for the season

C: Adams, Hayes, W. Hernangomez
PF: Zion, Melli
SF: BI, GRIII
SG: JJ, Hart, NAW
PG: Lonzo, Bledsoe, Kira

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Long Term (and that's how they are playing it) JJ is not the answer and should not be starting. I could see Kira / Lonzo; or NAW / Lonzo; or Lonzo / Hart, but I can't see JJ at age 36 in the starting line up. If we have to take some lumps now as we build for the future...take 'em with our young pups gaining valuable playing time. On the other hand, Adams (27) just fills a glaring weakness on this team and could be part of the buildout if he chose to be (on mutually acceptable terms).

I guess BI is next sometime today huh?

Jayson Tatum has agreed to a five-year, $195M extension with the Celtics, source tells ESPN.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) November 22, 2020

I predict Willy Hernangomez is going to be a fan favorite like Jason Smith with his high energy & hustle. I like the move. They had a few others I liked for a 5th big, but I like this guys game on offense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Long Term (and that's how they are playing it) JJ is not the answer and should not be starting. I could see Kira / Lonzo; or NAW / Lonzo; or Lonzo / Hart, but I can't see JJ at age 36 in the starting line up. If we have to take some lumps now as we build for the future...take 'em with our young pups gaining valuable playing time. On the other hand, Adams (27) just fills a glaring weakness on this team and could be part of the buildout if he chose to be (on mutually acceptable terms).

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JJ will not be here long term. So he can start...who cares? He started in Philly.

Lonzo not here long term either. 2 guards are also expected to create their own space and shot. Not a Lonzo skill.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

And I also want to say that actually, Solomon Hill was actually pretty decent last year, was always a good locker room presence in NOLA, and I would be okay with him returning on a minimum deal.

No, he wasn't great, but he was getting paid like $13m a year and starting. That's very different expectations from vet mins off the bench.

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Only contender gets those vet mins.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Long Term (and that's how they are playing it) JJ is not the answer and should not be starting. I could see Kira / Lonzo; or NAW / Lonzo; or Lonzo / Hart, but I can't see JJ at age 36 in the starting line up. If we have to take some lumps now as we build for the future...take 'em with our young pups gaining valuable playing time. On the other hand, Adams (27) just fills a glaring weakness on this team and could be part of the buildout if he chose to be (on mutually acceptable terms).

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Well of course JJ is not the answer long term, but I think he should be starting without a doubt. He averaged 15 ppg last year while playing 26 minutes a game. We need his shooting in the starting lineup. You rather play Lonzo & Bledsoe together? The spacing will be horrible. I think not having a true point guard coming off the bench hurt us last year and that’s why we got Bledsoe. So either him or Lonzo can come off the bench. I rather play NAW, but he’s not ready to start

Quote:

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Originally Posted by luckyman

JJ will not be here long term. So he can start...who cares? He started in Philly.

Lonzo not here long term either. 2 guards are also expected to create their own space and shot. Not a Lonzo skill.

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Two completely different teams. One was competing to win in the present (shooting its wad); the other is building for the future (winning now is just a plus).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Two completely different teams. One was competing to win in the present (shooting its wad); the other is building for the future (winning now is just a plus).

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The point is he's been in a starting role before. And he won't be here forever, and the future long-term SG may or may not currently be on the roster yet. Maybe it's NAW. Maybe it's Didi. Maybe its one of the many future draft picks, a traded for player, or a FA.

Regardless it doesnt even matter for this upcoming year. This is how rebuilds work. It's tedious and time consuming.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Only contender gets those vet mins.

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Sure, and maybe he still gets snapped up somewhere, but most teams are pretty much done with team-building at this point and I don't see him having been snapped up yet.

Free agent Austin Rivers has agreed to deal with Knicks, source tells ESPN.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) November 22, 2020

Damn it! Austin Rivers signed with the Knicks lolol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Two completely different teams. One was competing to win in the present (shooting its wad); the other is building for the future (winning now is just a plus).

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I really thought JJ would want out after we traded Jrue. Like, he'd want to go somewhere contending this year. He seemed pretty understanding about it on his podcast.

https://youtu.be/7RgJ1gzkj5g

I mean, the guy is a straight up professional so I don't expect him to go on his podcast disgruntled and talking smack....but that language sounds like he's bought in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Two completely different teams. One was competing to win in the present (shooting its wad); the other is building for the future (winning now is just a plus).

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IMO we are trying to make the playoffs to get our young team some playoff experience. JJ is the best option at shooting guard. We need his veteran leadership and shooting in the starting lineup. Josh Hart would be the only other option, but we need him to be the backup 3 cause I don’t think a Redick, NAW, and either Lonzo or Bledsoe would work together on the 2nd unit. As our team is currently constructed I think Bledsoe, JJ, BI, Zion, & Adams would be the best starting lineup with Lonzo, NAW, Hart, Melli, & Hayes as our 2nd unit. Unless Lonzo suddenly plays way better point in the half court, I think he would fit better playing along side NAW with the 2nd unit. I know most will freak out if Bledsoe starts over Lonzo, but I think he should for us to be successful

Okay... When I was told nobody wanted Bledsoe. I was okay... Sure.


Damnnnnnnnnnnnn. Nobody wants that dude.

A "team gave away 5 picks to get rid of him" energy. That's like divorce energy. Take the damn house, i don't care. I just want you gone.

Lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Okay... When I was told nobody wanted Bledsoe. I was okay... Sure.


Damnnnnnnnnnnnn. Nobody wants that dude.

A "team gave away 5 picks to get rid of him" energy. That's like divorce energy. Take the damn house, i don't care. I just want you gone.

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But you dont actually know any of this. Maybe the Pelicans want to keep Bledsoe than roll with another year of the Lonzo struggle, or a 19 year old rookie at point guard.