2021 NBA Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by AusPel

I think he's pretty underrated. A lot of mocks don't even have him going at all

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I'd love to get him with one of our many seconds.

CBS Sports did a mock draft, but didn't take into account coin flips

https://youtu.be/86jSoO-VIUs

How unprofessional is that?

You clicked on it. All they care about. You think they are staying awake at night caring about accuracy?

Sad

Idk why but I’m still optimistic that we land a top 3 pick in the lotto.

"You've got the best film in the draft"....:crytear: I agree...but I'm also pretty sure he didnt make that up on his own. Probably heard that from scouts. So at this point, if they stay at 10 and keep the pick...fingers crossed for Moody.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0Tp1RhdGZA&ab_channel=NBAonESPNNBAonESPNVerified

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Originally Posted by RUFshreve

Dae, what are your thoughts about Filip Petru?ev?

He's a 6'11 PF that averaged 22/8 in 31 minutes per game in the ABA this year. He shot 45% from 3 and 72% from the FT line. All I know is what I've seen in highlight videos, but we've been wanting a stretch big next to Zion and he looks like he could fill that role in a year or two as he grows into it. I'd love if we could get him with one of our early seconds, but most mocks I've seen have him going late 1st.

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I like him fine as a 2nd rounder, I don't really buy the shooting at that kind of level in an NBA context and he's not massively mobile or outlier good defensively either (though he does have moments of being solid on D).

Can anyone tell me what the knock on Jalen Johnson from Duke is? Dude seems to have all kinds of tools. Combo forward? Great size, athleticism, strength. Good defender, good 3pt shooter. He looks like he’d be a great fit

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Can anyone tell me what the knock on Jalen Johnson from Duke is? Dude seems to have all kinds of tools. Combo forward? Great size, athleticism, strength. Good defender, good 3pt shooter. He looks like he’d be a great fit

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If he hits his ceiling, he is an almost ideal fit. But the floor is scary. The 3pt percentage isnt real - in the fact that it isnt reflective of the shooter he actually is. He is pretty raw offensively, pretty much just a garbage man in the half court for now. Makes really dumb mistakes, doesnt seem to have great IQ, and him leaving Duke is questionable at best, a red flag at worst.

He's the kind of gamble you take when you dont have a star and are trying to gamble he becomes one. Not a guy for us IMO. I'll wait until he flames out and get him on his 2nd or 3rd contract when he starts to mature and has been humbled.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

If he hits his ceiling, he is an almost ideal fit. But the floor is scary. The 3pt percentage isnt real - in the fact that it isnt reflective of the shooter he actually is. He is pretty raw offensively, pretty much just a garbage man in the half court for now. Makes really dumb mistakes, doesnt seem to have great IQ, and him leaving Duke is questionable at best, a red flag at worst.

He's the kind of gamble you take when you dont have a star and are trying to gamble he becomes one. Not a guy for us IMO. I'll wait until he flames out and get him on his 2nd or 3rd contract when he starts to mature and has been humbled.

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Heard that

Also add me on the Jaden Springer hype train. Been watching some of his tape and he would be a great 3 and D fit for us IMO. Athletic, can shoot, can defend very well.

Suggs and springer remind me of George Hill. Solid players and could start on the right teams but don’t think will be stars. That’s why if we trade down a little I’d love to get springer. My ideal situation is sign and trade Zo to Sacramento for 10 (we win lottery and get 3 and take Green). Trade 10 and Bledsoe to Knicks for 19 and 21. Looking at tankathon Springer and Kai Jones are almost always there so I want them and maybe send them to G league this year like Naji.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Heard that

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I think the single biggest problem Johnson has is that his decision making and processing always seems just a split second too slow. For a guy whose top end outcomes rely on him being capable of making decisions with the ball in his hands (a lot of people have lauded him as almost a point forward type) that's one of the most fatal single issues you can have. Just seems to recognise opportunities right as they close, rather than right as they open - or, in the cases of the very very best players, right before they open.

It impacts him on defense as well, though he was largely able to use his physical tools to recover in those cases in college, and I do think it's slightly less obvious on D.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Also add me on the Jaden Springer hype train. Been watching some of his tape and he would be a great 3 and D fit for us IMO. Athletic, can shoot, can defend very well.

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He's intensely strong, and while he's not got the best vision or passing in the class he does have solid passing abilities. And, helpfully enough for our team, his passing is at its best on the interior imo, which would benefit both Zion and Jax depending on lineups. Of course, you don't draft for fit in the top 5, but it's a plus if it works out.

While I don't like player comparisons in general for various reasons, I do think Springer is the player in the draft that most resembles Jrue in terms of his general style. Strong guard who isn't explosive or a lights out shooter from 30 feet but who uses patience and craft to attack the basket and can playmake well enough to be trusted with the ball in his hands, with room to develop as a shooter further on, and solid defense that uses strength and hands more than vertical or outlier speed.

Davion Mitchell is growing on me. But he’s not gonna move any needles. Put him on a bad team and he might put up buckets and numbers. But does he crack the rotation on a team like the Bucks, Miami, or Utah?

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Davion Mitchell is growing on me. But he’s not gonna move any needles. Put him on a bad team and he might put up buckets and numbers. But does he crack the rotation on a team like the Bucks, Miami, or Utah?

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The top flight Mitchell love for me has always been a bit weird.

I've said it before, but the functional floor for sub 6'3 guards is so high that you absolutely must have a top top top tier skill for it to be worth taking a chance on them in the top 10 or 12.

Look at the last 5 drafts, for example. How many sub 6'3 guards have been drafted in the lottery, and how many have been any good enough to justify that?

2020: None in the lottery.
2019: Darius Garland. Despite being a top shelf shooter, he's a catastrophe inside the arc and on defense. Grades out as a clear negative on all major impact stats. Still early career of course but the downsides to taking someone who is 6'1 show.
2018: Trae Young - absolute top shelf passer, elite self-creator, can draw fouls like almost nobody else, top tier scorer. Clearly justified.
Colin Sexton - Extremely good shooter who has managed to consistently improve as a distributor. Despite averaging big numbers, has still not been able to hit a positive BPM over his first three years, and finished well below league average at the rim. Despite elite shooting and solid FT%, hovers around league average TS%. Despite huge growth and several strong skills, which certainly justify his high pick, he's been unable to really create impact on a top level thus far.
2017: Dennis Smith Jr - Absolute failure of a draft pick that high.
2016: None drafted

So over the last 5 years there have been 4 sub 6'3 guards taken in the lottery. One of them has been awful thus far in his career. Two of them have clear positive skills but have been totally unable to translate them into impact because of their flaws, many of which are related to their size - in their defense, them playing together exaggerates these flaws somewhat and makes it even harder on them. The final one has a plethora of elite skills to bolster his game and even then, the weaknesses of his size and frame drag down his overall impact pretty significantly - Trae being a turnstile has huge problems for Atlanta and his height means that he can't execute some of the best passes even though he clearly sees them.

So the question for me is: What does Mitchell do, at 6'2 with what appears to be a fairly un-noteworthy wingspan, to make him justifiable in the top 10? The only real argument I've seen is the shooting but I just don't buy his shooting on the next level: his recipe of a single year dramatic boost in 3pt% after being bad beforehand, with no real improvement from the FT%, is a false-friend formula that we've seen play out before. It doesn't mean it's not real but it looks an awful lot like something that isn't real might look.

I can get taking Mitchell at like, #20. Or even #15. Who knows, maybe the shooting is real? But taking him top 10 seems almost negligent to me.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

The top flight Mitchell love for me has always been a bit weird.

I've said it before, but the functional floor for sub 6'3 guards is so high that you absolutely must have a top top top tier skill for it to be worth taking a chance on them in the top 10 or 12.

Look at the last 5 drafts, for example. How many sub 6'3 guards have been drafted in the lottery, and how many have been any good enough to justify that?

2020: None in the lottery.
2019: Darius Garland. Despite being a top shelf shooter, he's a catastrophe inside the arc and on defense. Grades out as a clear negative on all major impact stats. Still early career of course but the downsides to taking someone who is 6'1 show.
2018: Trae Young - absolute top shelf passer, elite self-creator, can draw fouls like almost nobody else, top tier scorer. Clearly justified.
Colin Sexton - Extremely good shooter who has managed to consistently improve as a distributor. Despite averaging big numbers, has still not been able to hit a positive BPM over his first three years, and finished well below league average at the rim. Despite elite shooting and solid FT%, hovers around league average TS%. Despite huge growth and several strong skills, which certainly justify his high pick, he's been unable to really create impact on a top level thus far.
2017: Dennis Smith Jr - Absolute failure of a draft pick that high.
2016: None drafted

So over the last 5 years there have been 4 sub 6'3 guards taken in the lottery. One of them has been awful thus far in his career. Two of them have clear positive skills but have been totally unable to translate them into impact because of their flaws, many of which are related to their size - in their defense, them playing together exaggerates these flaws somewhat and makes it even harder on them. The final one has a plethora of elite skills to bolster his game and even then, the weaknesses of his size and frame drag down his overall impact pretty significantly - Trae being a turnstile has huge problems for Atlanta and his height means that he can't execute some of the best passes even though he clearly sees them.

So the question for me is: What does Mitchell do, at 6'2 with what appears to be a fairly un-noteworthy wingspan, to make him justifiable in the top 10? The only real argument I've seen is the shooting but I just don't buy his shooting on the next level: his recipe of a single year dramatic boost in 3pt% after being bad beforehand, with no real improvement from the FT%, is a false-friend formula that we've seen play out before. It doesn't mean it's not real but it looks an awful lot like something that isn't real might look.

I can get taking Mitchell at like, #20. Or even #15. Who knows, maybe the shooting is real? But taking him top 10 seems almost negligent to me.

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Depending on who you believe, Kira Lewis, Jr is sub 6'3" and part of the 2020 lottery.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

The top flight Mitchell love for me has always been a bit weird.

I've said it before, but the functional floor for sub 6'3 guards is so high that you absolutely must have a top top top tier skill for it to be worth taking a chance on them in the top 10 or 12.

Look at the last 5 drafts, for example. How many sub 6'3 guards have been drafted in the lottery, and how many have been any good enough to justify that?

2020: None in the lottery.
2019: Darius Garland. Despite being a top shelf shooter, he's a catastrophe inside the arc and on defense. Grades out as a clear negative on all major impact stats. Still early career of course but the downsides to taking someone who is 6'1 show.
2018: Trae Young - absolute top shelf passer, elite self-creator, can draw fouls like almost nobody else, top tier scorer. Clearly justified.
Colin Sexton - Extremely good shooter who has managed to consistently improve as a distributor. Despite averaging big numbers, has still not been able to hit a positive BPM over his first three years, and finished well below league average at the rim. Despite elite shooting and solid FT%, hovers around league average TS%. Despite huge growth and several strong skills, which certainly justify his high pick, he's been unable to really create impact on a top level thus far.
2017: Dennis Smith Jr - Absolute failure of a draft pick that high.
2016: None drafted

So over the last 5 years there have been 4 sub 6'3 guards taken in the lottery. One of them has been awful thus far in his career. Two of them have clear positive skills but have been totally unable to translate them into impact because of their flaws, many of which are related to their size - in their defense, them playing together exaggerates these flaws somewhat and makes it even harder on them. The final one has a plethora of elite skills to bolster his game and even then, the weaknesses of his size and frame drag down his overall impact pretty significantly - Trae being a turnstile has huge problems for Atlanta and his height means that he can't execute some of the best passes even though he clearly sees them.

So the question for me is: What does Mitchell do, at 6'2 with what appears to be a fairly un-noteworthy wingspan, to make him justifiable in the top 10? The only real argument I've seen is the shooting but I just don't buy his shooting on the next level: his recipe of a single year dramatic boost in 3pt% after being bad beforehand, with no real improvement from the FT%, is a false-friend formula that we've seen play out before. It doesn't mean it's not real but it looks an awful lot like something that isn't real might look.

I can get taking Mitchell at like, #20. Or even #15. Who knows, maybe the shooting is real? But taking him top 10 seems almost negligent to me.

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You've got exceptional blinders on if you keep saying the only thing that he does that is noteworthy is shooting. I mean I'm not going to mention the main things EVERYBODY mentions when they bring up his name. It's extremely obvious at this point. And shooting might be the 4th or 5th thing. I don't need to rehash it because it appears you are going to die on this hill no matter what.

And just last year, when I first mentioned Kira as player the Pelicans should take at 12 (at that time before the tie breaker), didn't you argue me down that it should be Grant Riller...at 12...a 6'2" guard? Who eventually was a couple picks away from being a UDFA?

What did Grant Riller do that was so exceptional that you raved about him being a potential lottery pick, but can't do it for Mitchell? Maybe I am mis-remembering or something.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

You've got exceptional blinders on if you keep saying the only thing that he does that is noteworthy is shooting. I mean I'm not going to mention the main things EVERYBODY mentions when they bring up his name. It's extremely obvious at this point. And shooting might be the 4th or 5th thing. I don't need to rehash it because it appears you are going to die on this hill no matter what.

And just last year, when I first mentioned Kira as player the Pelicans should take at 12 (at that time before the tie breaker), didn't you argue me down that it should be Grant Riller...at 12...a 6'2" guard? Who eventually was a couple picks away from being a UDFA?

What did Grant Riller do that was so exceptional that you raved about him being a potential lottery pick, but can't do it for Mitchell? Maybe I am mis-remembering or something.

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Grant Riller was the single best finisher in his entire class, regardless of height or position. He shot nearly 70% at the rim with less than 15% of his 2pt attempts assisted. He finished at the rim at basically the same rate as Obi Toppin despite being about 10 inches shorter, and created almost all of it himself. That's an outlier skill. In any case, while I liked Riller a lot (and still think he could get run in the NBA if he was given the chance, which he currently has not been) I wouldn't take him top 10 or even top 15 in this draft. Last year's draft was, I think everyone remembers, notably weak. This year's draft has a much more robust top end.

I didn't say the only noteworthy thing that Davion Mitchell does is shooting. I said the only argument I've seen made regarding his top 10 rankings has been his shooting, particularly his pullup shooting - that doesn't meant it's the only noteworthy thing he does. For example, he's also a very good college POA defender. I've been very open about how much I do not value POA attack in comparison to team defense at the NBA level, but whether I value it particularly highly or not doesn't change that he is good at it. It does, however, change whether I think it's something that justifies a top 10 pick in a draft with some actual top end value.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Grant Riller was the single best finisher in his entire class, regardless of height or position. He shot nearly 70% at the rim with less than 15% of his 2pt attempts assisted. He finished at the rim at basically the same rate as Obi Toppin despite being about 10 inches shorter, and created almost all of it himself. That's an outlier skill. In any case, while I liked Riller a lot (and still think he could get run in the NBA if he was given the chance, which he currently has not been) I wouldn't take him top 10 or even top 15 in this draft. Last year's draft was, I think everyone remembers, notably weak. This year's draft has a much more robust top end.

I didn't say the only noteworthy thing that Davion Mitchell does is shooting. I said the only argument I've seen made regarding his top 10 rankings has been his shooting, particularly his pullup shooting - that doesn't meant it's the only noteworthy thing he does. For example, he's also a very good college POA defender. I've been very open about how much I do not value POA attack in comparison to team defense at the NBA level, but whether I value it particularly highly or not doesn't change that he is good at it. It does, however, change whether I think it's something that justifies a top 10 pick in a draft with some actual top end value.

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Ok well in no draft would I ever have considered Grant Riller a lottery pick. Won't rehash why since we went over that in that old thread.

And again, when you bring up Davion Mitchell, shooting in down the list as to why people consider him a lottery pick. And Mitchell is not only a good POA defender, which still carries much weight at the guard position, but a great defender overall. He rarely gets beaten back door and does the sneaky things off ball that leads to blind side steals and such.

Offensively, he actually deferred a lot to Jared Butler and Macio Teague, and did a great job setting up easy looks for "Everyday Jon" and Vital. He's a true point guard that can also self-create at a high level. I'm also pretty sure he's one of the best guards finishing at the rim in this draft. I'll just leave it at that.

Davion Mitchell is the real deal. If we're not picking top 4 and Moody is off the board, Mitchell is the guy I'm hoping for. Shooting isn't his best skill either.

Again, I dont think we keep the pick, but if we do Keon is my guy. Offensive floor is scary but in the lotto, you go on upside and if the guy busts you shrug your shoulders and move on. And to me, Keon has the upside. Looking at the West and the 25 and under guys we will have to compete with for the next decade, it is clear that you need to get a guy who can make it a nightmare for the Luka's, Bookers, Mitchell's, etc - and Keon is the guy most likely to make that happen if he hits his ceiling. You bet on him finding his offensive over time, and if he does, he has the highest ceiling outside of the top 4 IMO. Maybe even more than Suggs

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Again, I dont think we keep the pick, but if we do Keon is my guy. Offensive floor is scary but in the lotto, you go on upside and if the guy busts you shrug your shoulders and move on. And to me, Keon has the upside. Looking at the West and the 25 and under guys we will have to compete with for the next decade, it is clear that you need to get a guy who can make it a nightmare for the Luka's, Bookers, Mitchell's, etc - and Keon is the guy most likely to make that happen if he hits his ceiling. You bet on him finding his offensive over time, and if he does, he has the highest ceiling outside of the top 4 IMO. Maybe even more than Suggs

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What makes him so much better defensively than Mitchell, that you take Keon over him? Other than height, wingspan and age I guess, what is Keon superior at?

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Originally Posted by RUFshreve

What makes him so much better defensively than Mitchell, that you take Keon over him? Other than height, wingspan and age I guess, what is Keon superior at?

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Well, height and wingspan are pretty vital things on defense tbh :hihi: even if they were all it is, that's fairly significant. It's much more valuable to be 6'5 with a 6'8 estimated wingspan than it is to be 6'2 with a 6'5 estimated wingspan.

Also important to remember Davion will be 23 before he ever touches an NBA court whereas Keon will still be 19: even if you think Davion is better now (which, in some ways he is) the real question is whether you think Keon will be more likely to be worth the payout after 4 years of rookie-contract development than Davion will: Davion will be 27 by then, so whatever he is at that point is what he is, whereas with Keon (as Mac says) there's much more upside; he could develop well or poorly, but if things go well he'll be 23 and good with room still to grow.

Note: I'm not even a huge huge huge Keon fan. I like him fine but I have scepticism regarding his likelihood of hitting those high offensive upsides.

Some draft news: I'm told LSU's Cameron Thomas and Kentucky's Isaiah Jackson, both projected first-rounders, have withdrawn from the NBA combine as of this morning.

— Jeremy Woo (@JeremyWoo) June 21, 2021

I like Cam Thomas. I dare say we try and move up for him if possible. He’s got an elite scorer’s mentality. I’d love to see him come off the bench. Especially if we move NAW like I think we will.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Davion Mitchell is growing on me. But he?s not gonna move any needles. Put him on a bad team and he might put up buckets and numbers. But does he crack the rotation on a team like the Bucks, Miami, or Utah?

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Players with his type of handle, always do well. Plus he's good at those off the dribble 3s that MM mentions. He would be a steal at 10

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

I like Cam Thomas. I dare say we try and move up for him if possible. He’s got an elite scorer’s mentality. I’d love to see him come off the bench. Especially if we move NAW like I think we will.

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He should be available. You mean trade up from the 2nd?

Use some of those high 2nds and try moving up to the late 1st...get Duarte.

This team's luck he'll end up getting sniped in the teens.

At this point I think trade 10, draft Trey Murphy and Bones Hyland then make them 2-way players. They both shooters we could bring in later in the year like Naji. Hyland could be a combo guard in the mold of NAW which I’m guessing will be moved in a trade.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Use some of those high 2nds and try moving up to the late 1st...get Duarte.

This team's luck he'll end up getting sniped in the teens.

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We only have one high second now. Everything 40 and over is pretty worthless. You might be able to get 30 for 35 and 40, but that's absolutely best case scenario

Some quick combine takeaways:

Miles McBride is the big winner. Long wingspan, solid build and athletically he belongs.
Scottie Lewis may have no actual basketball skill but he's a world class athlete
Moody only 6'4.5" w/o shoes but that near 7'1" wingspan and hand size is monstrous
Roko Prkacin is a big forward and solidly built for his age. 8'11" standing reach is impressive, I think he's going to fly up draft boards.

A lot of the consensus lotto picks measured poorly
Mitchell 6'0" w/o shoes is rough
Keon Johnson is a little small
Barnes was a little shorter than expected but he's still pretty long

Who am I missing?

I hope we keep our picks and build through the draft. People would be happy with Fred VanVleet, Robert Covington or Lu Dort and they went undrafted. We should get a good player at 10. I'm hoping for a perimeter defender or someone who can distribute. My wishlist at 10 is:

Tier 1 Prospects:
1. Davion Mitchell (pro ready and does it all. I'm hoping he falls but he's closer to Dame than he is to Trey Burke. We may have to trade up to 5 or 6 to get him)
2. Scottie Barnes (not a great shooter but defends the length of the court and defends multiple positions, good passer, really unique player. I think he fits our team really well because we can line him up in so many different spots from 1 to 4 and he makes everyone around him better. Considering the makeup of our team I almost put him 1st)
3. Keon Johnson (superb athlete, defensive stud and above the rim slasher. The idea of Keon Kira and Zion would be the fastest lineup in the league. High risk k high reward type pick but the athleticism has me drooling a little)
4. Josh Giddey (bad on ball defender and bad shooter, but my God this man can pass. 6'9 PG with the best half court passing in the class. He would immediately upgrade over Bledsoe and could legit run the offense. Watching 1 game is more akin to watching a highlight reel. He's got special court vision)

Tier 2 Prospects:
5. Moses Moody (3 & D shooting guard, needs to become more efficient. On paper it looks good bc he's a high scoring freshman with defensive potential but his shot selection was bad. In the words of my coach "I need makers not shooters." He's got potential but at 10 it feels like a slight reach)
6. Franz Wagner (doesn't fit the athletic profile you look for but high energy all around player who can play a lot of roles, pass and defend. I worry about the lack of athleticism though)
7. Jalen Johnson (athletic defender, really unrefined. Definitely the widest possible potential draft outcomes. Could go top 6 or late 1st)
8. Alpern Sengun (offensive upside through the roof, young, only reason to get him is Zion insurance)
9. Ayo Dosunmu (a lot of sources have him going late 1st but he is one of the most productive players statistically in the class. I could see him climbing draft boards much higher than projected because he's not a bad athlete or defender. If he was their guy we'd likely want to trade back though)

Round 2/Undrafted Targets:
Quentin Grimes SG (extremely well rounded game)
JT Thor PF (freakishly athletic defender, really fun to watch)
Rokas Jokubaitis PG (really promising mid range game)
Ochai Agbaji SG (well rounded 3 n D wing)
Daishen Nix PG (big PG who can rebound)
Nah'shon Hylan PG (Bones is instant buckets, he's a fan favorite around the league)


I know a lot of fans want shooting but I think we can get shooters in the 2nd round. Guys like Brynn Forbes, Duncan Robinson went undrafted. There's a bunch in this draft class too. Grimes from Houston may be our best fit especially if we lose Hart because he can shoot, rebound and play defense. All things considered I'm excited about this draft and don't want us to trade especially if we can get Mitchell or Barnes.

if we trade....

I want to to still draft a couple of guys outside of the lottery round.

JT Thor
Cam Thomas
Jared Butler


If we can hustle some picks from OKC... Get their 16 and 18.

Cam Thomas
Kispert or JT Thor


I want us to invest in this draft so badly. Jared Butler heart concern is prime steal in the 2nd.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

We only have one high second now. Everything 40 and over is pretty worthless. You might be able to get 30 for 35 and 40, but that's absolutely best case scenario

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Not always. There have been plenty of good players drafted in the 40s, particularly the reigning MVP. However, I would expect they will be traded for future 2nds. Alternatively, there are some international players in that area that may be worthy of a draft and stash.

Not that it's surprising but...Keon Johnson breaks combine vertical record with a 48 inch max vert...an absolute beast on of an athlete. Questions on skill level notwithstanding.

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Tennessee freshman Keon Johnson recorded a max vertical jump of 48 inches Thursday to break the NBA Draft Combine record in the drill.

Johnson, a 6-foot-5 wing projected to go ninth to the Sacramento Kings in Sam Vecenie’s latest NBA Mock Draft, broke the previous combine record by 2 1/2 inches. Kansas’ Kenny Gregory held the record of 45.5 inches for 20 years (2001).

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https://theathletic.com/news/keon-jo...=spotrac40off2

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Not that it's surprising but...Keon Johnson breaks combine vertical record with a 48 inch max vert...an absolute beast on of an athlete. Questions on skill level notwithstanding.



https://theathletic.com/news/keon-jo...=spotrac40off2

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Keon Johnson is the player I really want. I've watched a ton of games recently from all the prospects and Kwon just seems like the best fit. He's so athletic, passes well, looks great above the rim, and plays with fantastic defensive intensity. His mid range game is promising too. I think he could help us win games without having to score. I'm really hoping he's available.

I doubt he actually jumped 48”.

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Originally Posted by ScoutWannabe

I hope we keep our picks and build through the draft. People would be happy with Fred VanVleet, Robert Covington or Lu Dort and they went undrafted. We should get a good player at 10. I'm hoping for a perimeter defender or someone who can distribute. My wishlist at 10 is:

Tier 1 Prospects:
1. Davion Mitchell (pro ready and does it all. I'm hoping he falls but he's closer to Dame than he is to Trey Burke. We may have to trade up to 5 or 6 to get him)
2. Scottie Barnes (not a great shooter but defends the length of the court and defends multiple positions, good passer, really unique player. I think he fits our team really well because we can line him up in so many different spots from 1 to 4 and he makes everyone around him better. Considering the makeup of our team I almost put him 1st)
3. Keon Johnson (superb athlete, defensive stud and above the rim slasher. The idea of Keon Kira and Zion would be the fastest lineup in the league. High risk k high reward type pick but the athleticism has me drooling a little)
4. Josh Giddey (bad on ball defender and bad shooter, but my God this man can pass. 6'9 PG with the best half court passing in the class. He would immediately upgrade over Bledsoe and could legit run the offense. Watching 1 game is more akin to watching a highlight reel. He's got special court vision)

Tier 2 Prospects:
5. Moses Moody (3 & D shooting guard, needs to become more efficient. On paper it looks good bc he's a high scoring freshman with defensive potential but his shot selection was bad. In the words of my coach "I need makers not shooters." He's got potential but at 10 it feels like a slight reach)
6. Franz Wagner (doesn't fit the athletic profile you look for but high energy all around player who can play a lot of roles, pass and defend. I worry about the lack of athleticism though)
7. Jalen Johnson (athletic defender, really unrefined. Definitely the widest possible potential draft outcomes. Could go top 6 or late 1st)
8. Alpern Sengun (offensive upside through the roof, young, only reason to get him is Zion insurance)
9. Ayo Dosunmu (a lot of sources have him going late 1st but he is one of the most productive players statistically in the class. I could see him climbing draft boards much higher than projected because he's not a bad athlete or defender. If he was their guy we'd likely want to trade back though)

Round 2/Undrafted Targets:
Quentin Grimes SG (extremely well rounded game)
JT Thor PF (freakishly athletic defender, really fun to watch)
Rokas Jokubaitis PG (really promising mid range game)
Ochai Agbaji SG (well rounded 3 n D wing)
Daishen Nix PG (big PG who can rebound)
Nah'shon Hylan PG (Bones is instant buckets, he's a fan favorite around the league)


I know a lot of fans want shooting but I think we can get shooters in the 2nd round. Guys like Brynn Forbes, Duncan Robinson went undrafted. There's a bunch in this draft class too. Grimes from Houston may be our best fit especially if we lose Hart because he can shoot, rebound and play defense. All things considered I'm excited about this draft and don't want us to trade especially if we can get Mitchell or Barnes.

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Moses Moody is better than all of those teir 1's but Barnes imo. He'll be a joe Johnson in the league for quite a while.
His shooting and wingspan help him.comtrivute from day 1.

Josh giddy and keon Johnson aren't ready to help this squad like that. Most of our starting 5 alreadyike to operate w the bal,. Hence, a. Effecient off-ball scorer w length enough for D is needed


Moody



Oh yeah, id like Quentin Grimes as well

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

I doubt he actually jumped 48”.

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It wasn't a standing jump, he had a running start.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

Moses Moody is better than all of those teir 1's but Barnes imo. He'll be a joe Johnson in the league for quite a while.
His shooting and wingspan help him.comtrivute from day 1.

Josh giddy and keon Johnson aren't ready to help this squad like that. Most of our starting 5 alreadyike to operate w the bal,. Hence, a. Effecient off-ball scorer w length enough for D is needed


Moody



Oh yeah, id like Quentin Grimes as well

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Yea I'm still watching the prospects so my rankings are constantly changing. Giddey's defense is so bad. Moody and Johnson are starting to creep into my tier 1 instead of Giddey. Grimes lit up the combine game too so I need dude to chill so he'll be available lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ml wave

It wasn't a standing jump, he had a running start.

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That?s standard for max vet though. The real issue is he likely cheated his standing reach measurements which they just subtract from where you reach to calculate vertical. Like he?s almost 6?5? with a 6?8? wingspan and has the same standing reach as a guy a couple inches shorter than him with shorter arms.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ml wave

It wasn't a standing jump, he had a running start.

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Watching Keon Johnson is like watching someone with springs in his shoes. His vert is real. So is his defensive prowess. I have no problem developing him into a Tony Allen type player. Pelifan mentioned McMbride too and his defense is really fun to watch as well. This is one of the deepest defensive drafts I can remember

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

That?s standard for max vet though. The real issue is he likely cheated his standing reach measurements which they just subtract from where you reach to calculate vertical. Like he?s almost 6?5? with a 6?8? wingspan and has the same standing reach as a guy a couple inches shorter than him with shorter arms.

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That’s what I’m talking about. His shoulders would need to be like Dwight Howard or just very boxy for his wingspan to be so long and his standing reach is so low. Dude has some bunnies regardless.

Pretty much in on moses moody if they keep the pick

move up to get him if needed

Point/combo guard measurements.

Jared Butler - 8.25 hand width, 6'3.75" height w/shoes, 6'4.00" wingspan, 193 lbs, no vert

Davion Mitchell - 8.75 hand width, 6'1.25" height w/shoes, 6'4.25 wingspan, 202 lbs, no vert

Miles McBride - 9.50 hand width, 6'2.50" height w/shoes, 6'8.75" wingspan, 195 lbs, 38.5 max vert

Tre Mann - 9.00 hand width, 6'3.25" height w/shoes, 6'4.00" wingspan, 178 lbs, no vert

Max Abmas - 7.75 hand width, 5'11.75" height w/shoes, 6'1.75" wingspan, 162 lbs, 32.5 max vert


For context:

Chris Paul - no hand width recorded, 6'1.00" height w/shoes, 6'4.25" wingspan, 178 lbs, 38.5 max vert

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Speakthetruth

Pretty much in on moses moody if they keep the pick

move up to get him if needed

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I still think he could end up going higher than expected.

This article from nola.com said Corey Kispert thinks he is 'tailor-made' for the Pels.

https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans...9678bcb2f.html

With that vertical and shuttle time he might have the athleticism needed to be good enough defensively like many people thought he wouldn’t be. If that’s the case he’s a perfect fit.

He’s gonna be a fine player. For someone.