why do suns get a 1st they are giving up 2 deadbeat players...
why do suns get a 1st they are giving up 2 deadbeat players...
All depends on if you think the $4m expiring is an asset. Jack's $5m was more useful since we were under the cap when started this whole mess, but perhaps the $4m expiring is worth something, or it acts like a `fee' for getting Lopez, raising his salary beyond what you are happy with, but in a year where we already have $13.5mish million in dead salary.
Jack turned into another expiring and Lopex on that deal, perhaps with some second round picks shuffling, and I supposed the loss of Dyson, is pretty good, really.
not really...lopez isnt the defensive banger we needed on this team..he is awful defensively...opposing centers put up a 19 PER against him the past couple of yrs...ideally, asik would be perfect for this team but he got overpaid...big men tend to get overpaid so it is blah to me
Well, I'm not arguing the expiring couldn't be seen as an asset it's just that it's really of no relevance to the Suns how much the Hornets pay Lopez (is it?) so I'd definitely prefer a three year $13 million or so.
For this contract, nonrookie, we did ok. And, it's not just him; it's him spending time with Davis or Anderson (he and Smith would be a disaster is most scenarios). Davis is good defensively and may help Lopez out, and Anderson's offense may help offset the issues on the other end. Then, Monty may be able to make a difference.
I think it's a decent risk, and the dude's contract should be movable if necessary.
Ideal? No. Pretty good for using only Jack's deal (basically), though.
It really all depends on him regaining the athleticism he lost due to injury.
In his rookie year, he was athletic enough to have serviceable offense and defense.
Post-injury, he has been MOLASSES on the blocks and the break.
I don't mind the risk at the price.
Exactly. You're not going to get the ideal player every time.
http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/20...alysis-defenseQuote:
Robin Lopez
Where Gortat is a bit small for a center, Robin Lopez is a true seven-footer with some meat on his bones. One would think that his size, strength and length would give him an edge over Gortat in post defense. However, the numbers show them to be almost equally effective. Lopez gives up 0.76 PPP and ranks 78th, both slightly better than Gortat. However, opponents convert at a higher rate against Lopez as his field goal percentage against is 43.5%. He makes up for this by forcing more turnovers (16.5 %TO), though, so his %Score is slightly better at 39.2%.
Lopez isn't as mobile as Gortat though and has more trouble closing out on shooters, as he gave up .96 PPP is spot-up situations with a %Score of 45.8%.
Lopez has seen limited defensive plays on other play types as his isolation and pick-and-roll roll man totals combined are only 45, but he did well on both, holding opponents' %Score to roughly 36%.
Overall, Lopez finished with a 0.81 PPP against and a rank of 127 which tied him with Gortat (albeit with a much smaller sample size). He only fouled a shooter 4.3% of the time, which is better than I would have thought. Opponents scored against him 39.9% of the time, which is slightly better than against Gortat.
Conclusion
As was the case on offense, the numbers point to Gortat and Lopez being a pretty good defensive duo. Both are plus defenders overall and each have their strengths. Gortat's mobility gives him an edge while closing out on shooters and defending the pick-and-roll, and he can hold his own in the post. Lopez's size is also an asset and having him means we don't have much of a drop-off defensively when Gortat takes a seat.
One interesting thing to note is how much more Gortat is used in the pick-and-roll versus the centers he plays against. I suppose that feeds into the thought that Gortat would be better at PF. But he's doing just fine at center for the Suns.
The Suns have a decision to make with Robin Lopez. His overall numbers are pretty good, especially for a back-up, and we've seen him play even better than his final numbers indicate. Having a seven-footer with some ability is nice, but how much is that advantage worth? We'll see this offseason.
He isn't as bad as you make him seem. Probably a lot better than you thought. He was considered their best post defender along with Gortat. Phoenix traditionally isn't a good defensive team. On a good defensive team like the Hornets, I predict he'll flourish. I assume Demps is seeing the same things this blogger sees.
WOW!!! so after going back-n-forth with Suns fans for the past 10 pages reports are they are getting a 1st?
Johnson/Miller/1st for Lopez/Warrick ?!?!?!?
Lopez cant jump worth crap. From what i have seen, he is a 7 footer, but squats down all the time and is never fully erect, so basicly he is playing like a 6'8 player.
Warrick is the guy that im real interested in. He cant defend, but boy can he DUNK!!! I cant wait to see him here in NO, i will be 1st in line to buy a Warrick jersey! :)
Robin was not considered that bad coming out of college. Some of you guys have even spoken very highly of a few of these guys drafted right behind Lopez:hihi:. Lets hope if this trade goes down he can find the potential everyone saw back then.
with the 15th pick of the 2008 NBA draft............
1 15 Lopez, Robin C United States Phoenix Suns (from Atlanta)[n] Stanford (So.)
1 16 Speights, Marreese F United States Philadelphia 76ers Florida (So.)
1 17 Hibbert, Roy C United States Toronto Raptors (traded to Indiana)[c] Georgetown (Sr.)
1 18 McGee, JaVale C United States Washington Wizards Nevada (So.)
1 19 Hickson, J. J. F United States Cleveland Cavaliers NC State (Fr.)
1 20 Ajinça, Alexis C France Charlotte Bobcats (from Denver)[o] Hyères-Toulon (France) 1988
1 21 Anderson, Ryan F United States New Jersey Nets (from Dallas) California {So}
1 22 Lee, Courtney G United States Orlando Magic Western Kentucky (Sr.)
1 23 Koufos, Kosta C Greeced Utah Jazz Ohio State (Fr.)
1 24 Ibaka, Serge F Congoe Seattle SuperSonics (from Phoenix) L'Hospitalet (Spain) 1989
1 25 Batum, Nicolas F France Houston Rockets (traded to Portland) Le Mans (France )
Not saying the Suns were right to pick Lopez over these guys, but with some fingers crossed and good coaching, who knows!
Why dont we give em that other nev we got from the jarret jack trade lol?
Thanks again to sfernald for discussing this aspect of the CBA. I was convinced we had no access to the TPE (even Coon didn't list it as an exception of ours), but clearly we do if this deal is done as reported. The numbers bear it out, too. I found it ambiguously written with respect to our situation, and still do (perhaps it is too obvious to state or I'm reading too much into it), but I appreciate your patience and efforts.
Hope the deal becomes official soon......
How will Anderson fit in all of this rotation now?
Wes Johnson is awful and Miller will probably never play another game. The Suns are getting a 1st for helping out Minnesota with cap space. Thats it. If the Suns were not getting a 1st then there would be no motivation to help out either New Orleans or Minnesota in this situation.
Fun Fact: Both Robin Lopez And Hakim Warrick season high in points last year was against the Hornets. (:
So it seems the other shoe has fallen with regards to the curious Jack and B. Miller trades..
A cunning (if Byzantine) plan if ever I saw one- we moved Jack in order to give us the wriggle-room to acquire Miller's edible contract, which we then in turn parlayed into Lopez, plus the ability to absorb a salary-dump (Warrick).
Essentially we've turned a PG into a C, which circumstances seemed to dictate was necessary- even though Jack was highly regarded.
When Lewis' dead contract comes off the books in 2013, we'll have the room to make our next move- perfect. Truly a chess match! Kudos to 42 for keeping us abreast and informed.
I just read that Warrick's contract contains a team option for 2013-2014. If that's the case then he's basically an expiring contract.
Ok, so I went on HoopHype and its not a team option.
I would pass on this deal. We just need a backup center. No reason to sign Lopez to 3 years and Warrick still has two more years on his contract. Shouldn't be too hard to find a big body for just one season. Lopez is a good backup, but why pay 3 years for a backup?
it seems like a theme in this thread is that because we are paying anderson 8mil a year he is 100% guaranteed to start. i would not be upset if that is the case, but getting paid that amount of $$$ DOES NOT mean you should start. the best option/matchup will start the game. and starting really means nothing. lets say anderson comes off the bench but gets 30-35 mpg and is on the floor at the end of games, and lopez starts, gets 24-26 mpg and isnt on the floor at the end of games. that is what matters. not who gets an 'S' in the box score, but the amount of minutes played and WHEN those minutes are played.
i honestly think (if this trade went down, of course) our best lineup would be rivers, gordon, anderson, davis and lopez. i expect to see davis/anderson play all 3-5 positions this season.
I've been one all offseason that has wanted to get Robin Lopez. I think he fits our needs perfectly. Right in that 24 year and below range we have been sticking to. True 7 footer, good size, good mobility for a 7 footer(IMO).
Defensive stats can be so misleading coming from a team that has Steve Nash getting blown by on every posession. In fact, Phoenix's outside defense was pretty weak all around. Really puts a lot of stress on the bigs.
No, I don't expect him to become some all-star starter. But for a team that needed a matchup big, I think we hit a homerun.
Now we go into next offseason already with Anderson, Davis, Smith and Lopez locked up. Two seven footers off the bench. That's pretty strong right there.
It's possible to assume that Demps and/or Monty have been interested in Lopez for weeks- presumably Phoenix needed an incentive to decline matching any offers or to trade him.
We didn't want to part with anything too valuable for Lopez, so we turned Jack's contract into Miller's contract, which can be bought out. Now Phoenix can send out Warrick's contract as their incentive to let Lopez come here- instead of paying $8million for Lopez and Warrick, they're paying $800,000 to buy out Miller's contract.
They (Phoenix) must have another move in mind, or they like Wes Johnson, either way. Presumably we can afford to sit on Warrick's contract for 12 months because Demps isn't planning on making any more moves, at least until February.
Can we talk Hakim Warrick for a second.........
He just turned 30 years old, and is obviously little more than a contract at this point for us. But I don't get the "he's awful" discussion other than from Phoenix fans and their typical nonsense.
This of course was the guy they brought in to take Amare's place. A plan destined to fail obviously, but they did what they had to do. Last year he played some of the smallest minutes of his career, and his play sufferred. But just the season before last, he was 29th amongst all PF's in PER, scored over 51% from the field, would have averaged about 16 points per 36 minutes. Year before that, he was 33rd in PER.
People are going to take whatever stats they want to prove whatever point they want. Again, Warrick will NOT be a Hornet past this season. But I feel pretty good about him being our third PF and 5th big off the bench. He is not some waste.
I wouldn't judge any player's ability to play defense after they have played for Phoenix. With Lopez's energy and strength I think he'd be a monsta in Monty's defensive scheme. He and Warrick.
It's probably moot re. New Orleans given he won't play much for us as you said.
Having said that, he can score, but his rebounding leaves a lot to be desired- he doesn't have the game to be a SF, but he's too slight to be a PF. In reality he'll be an expensive 5th 'big' man behind Davis, Anderson, Smith and Lopez.
I can see Warrick running the pick and roll and making some ridiculous dunks off lobs. Warrick is NOT terrible... players are not going to excel in every offense they need to be in a system that fits their abilities. All we do is pick and roll and I can't wait to see Warrick throwing down some lobs.
I can understand that from Phoenix's perspective. From our's, Lopez puts us at the cap, so bringing him in is a plus. We can't sign anyone above league minimum's anyway, and we get the contract in trade possibilities. Of course, actual dollars it sucks, but I don't have to pay it out, lol.
im tired of talking to people with reading comprehension problems. in the second sentence of my post i said "i would not be upset if that is the case", referring to anderson starting. and i never said i expect lopez to start 82 games a season. but he is more than capable of being a "spot starter" based on match-ups and injures. i havent taken anything you said seriously since i started posting here. have a good one.
Come on man, Asik is far better than Lopez. And I'm not saying Lopez is gonna suck for you guys cause this kid had a good run in the Suns WCFs playoff run in 2010 but after watching him play I just never thought he would land such a nice contract.
But that's exactly why I'm not a GM in the NBA :p
Edit: Yup it was the 2010 WCFs playoff run cause I still remember this:
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/364741/robinlopez.gif
Yeah Phoenix have Gortat and Scola now, Warrick makes zero sense for them.
We can probably assume Dell and Monty place some value on Lopez- he's 24, so he's the right age if nothing else. Lewis and Warrick will come off the books in 12 months, presumably Dell will make another move then.
You're right, it's nice that we're using 100% of the cap- gives the fans faith that the owner will not be cheap later on when it counts.
Asik averaged 3 points per game ! He couldnt spur a donkeys *** while riding him !:mummy: Asik is a BIG GARBAGE CAN !
:sick:
He freakin shoots 50% from the court at 7'0" from 3-5 feet from the basket>> &&&&&&&& he shoots SHAQ FREE THROWS ! Actually Worse than Shaq ! 46% !! That is gawd awful ! :crazy2:
Lets face it>> You paid 8 million a year for a guy that can rebound & CAN DO ABSOLUTELLY NOTHING on offense ! HE is a PATHETIC low post offensive player !:flushed:
Asik as an awful offensive player as of right now...agreed. But he is MILES better than Lopez defensively and rebounding wise.
And Asik at least had offers from other teams, no other team other than the Hornets wanted Lopez
Quote:
It should be of note that, aside from the Hornets’ interest, no other NBA squad has gotten the restricted free agent to sign an offer sheet. Read that as the rest of the NBA market knowing that Lopez is a guy with too many question marks to risk overpaying for.
Read more: http://valleyofthesuns.com/2012/07/2...#ixzz21dytFPbp
But i think the Hornets come out looking much better paying a backup Center 5mil a yr in a sign & trade to be what he is....a backup center rather than pay a back up center in every sense of the word 8mil a yr to be a starter that only averages 3pts a game.......lets not act like the Rockets GM is all that smarter than Dell. Don't matter who got offered what....yall overpaid while we're at least gettting some value. there for Lopez/Warrick (worth 5mil a yr/ warrick with an expiring) >>>>>>>> paying Asik 8mil a yr for averaging 3 pts a game. he can't play defense for the whole team....if you're a starting center you need to average more than that. That contract ALONE means Lopez>>>>>Asik. LOL. But ya'll be the Rockets....and we'll be the Hornets....
Asik AND Lopez are both Gahbage. No need to argue anymore.
Ick. So much faffing around about CBA rules and what not...and only limited word on if this deal is even getting done.