You guys, I think we need to pay Lonzo

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Not many, but that's kind of my point. I don't really put much stock in players saying they want to be here in the middle of a season; what matters is whether their desire to be here outweighs their desire for more cash. The answer is very rarely yes.

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Well it matters when they say they want to be here so it makes more sense to match the offer unlike with pudding where we shouldn’t have matched

The important takeaway if you take him at his word is that he said he wants to be here. MEANING at worst he won't be upset if he ends up here / we match. Again, if you take him at his word.

That's not an insignificant point. It won't be a Gordon situation.

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Originally Posted by PolishFan

Well it matters when they say they want to be here so it makes more sense to match the offer unlike with pudding where we shouldn’t have matched

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Exactly. Beat me to it. This point seems lost on some.

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Originally Posted by donato

The important takeaway if you take him at his word is that he said he wants to be here. MEANING at worst he won't be upset if he ends up here / we match. Again, if you take him at his word.

That's not an insignificant point. It won't be a Gordon situation.

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My concern has never been it being a Gordon situation. It's that paying him what he's likely to need paying to keep him is too much. It has absolutely nothing to do with thinking he's a malcontent or would cause problems in the locker room: he has never given signs to us that this is a concern. I didn't need more reassurance that he wouldn't be like Gordon because I never assumed he would be.

Therefore him saying he wants to be here means nothing to me right now. It neither fixes or alleviates the concerns that I actually do have.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

My concern has never been it being a Gordon situation. It's that paying him what he's likely to need paying to keep him is too much. It has absolutely nothing to do with thinking he's a malcontent or would cause problems in the locker room: he has never given signs to us that this is a concern. I didn't need more reassurance that he wouldn't be like Gordon because I never assumed he would be.

Therefore him saying he wants to be here means nothing to me right now. It neither fixes or alleviates the concerns that I actually do have.

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AD didn't give reasons he didn't want to be here until he did. So I do think what he said absolutely carries weight. Obviously that doesn't preclude him from signing somewhere else. I don't think anybody thought that.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

My concern has never been it being a Gordon situation. It's that paying him what he's likely to need paying to keep him is too much. It has absolutely nothing to do with thinking he's a malcontent or would cause problems in the locker room: he has never given signs to us that this is a concern. I didn't need more reassurance that he wouldn't be like Gordon because I never assumed he would be.

Therefore him saying he wants to be here means nothing to me right now. It neither fixes or alleviates the concerns that I actually do have.

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If he continues to improve then he should get paid more. If someone offers too much then we don’t match it. It’s important that he claims he want to stay here so that if the offer is not too big then we match it. That’s why it was a good decision not to trade him for peanuts. Even if the offer is too big then there is still a chance of sign and trade

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Originally Posted by PolishFan

If he continues to improve then he should get paid more. If someone offers too much then we don’t match it. It’s important that he claims he want to stay here so that if the offer is not too big then we match it. That’s why it was a good decision not to trade him for peanuts. Even if the offer is too big then there is still a chance of sign and trade

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The thing is that trading him ''for peanuts'' (and whether you believe him or not, MM has said that Duncan Robinson was potentially on the table for Lonzo so you can think about whether that's peanuts to you or not) is the middle ground.

What you have now is an all or nothing choice.

Either you pay Lonzo whatever it costs - which is something you have zero control over.
Or you let him walk for nothing at all.

There's no middle ground anymore, there's no damage control. You mention the possibility of a sign and trade but

A) Sign and trades are rare in general, let alone for roleplayers
B) Why would a team sign and trade with us, thus costing themselves assets, when they have the cap space to just push us out anyway? Either we have to bite the bullet and pay him big time or they get what they want without costing themselves anything. Sign and trades require another team willing to help you when they usually have no real reason to do so.

So yeah, ''continues to improve'' is a big if, especially considering that his improvement actually hasn't been consistent so far anyway (he's been a Pelican for a season and a half now and has had wildly inconsistent statistical output during that time, and his defense has declined hard).

You either have to be willing to lose him for nothing at this point or take a wild leap of faith. Not an enviable position, and it's a position we put ourselves in.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

This entire post is internally contradictory.

''I think NBA front offices will know Lonzo's limits are pretty evident and not overspend...

anyway we're gonna pay him $20m a year, probably''

...what? $20m a year is an overspend.

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20mil is my guess based on the lack of top tier FA's, the money will find Lonzo. Whether it is an overpay is just a perspective that can't be confirmed until he's actually playing under that contract.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

The thing is that trading him ''for peanuts'' (and whether you believe him or not, MM has said that Duncan Robinson was potentially on the table for Lonzo so you can think about whether that's peanuts to you or not) is the middle ground.

What you have now is an all or nothing choice.

Either you pay Lonzo whatever it costs - which is something you have zero control over.
Or you let him walk for nothing at all.

There's no middle ground anymore, there's no damage control. You mention the possibility of a sign and trade but

A) Sign and trades are rare in general, let alone for roleplayers
B) Why would a team sign and trade with us, thus costing themselves assets, when they have the cap space to just push us out anyway? Either we have to bite the bullet and pay him big time or they get what they want without costing themselves anything. Sign and trades require another team willing to help you when they usually have no real reason to do so.

So yeah, ''continues to improve'' is a big if, especially considering that his improvement actually hasn't been consistent so far anyway (he's been a Pelican for a season and a half now and has had wildly inconsistent statistical output during that time, and his defense has declined hard).

You either have to be willing to lose him for nothing at this point or take a wild leap of faith. Not an enviable position, and it's a position we put ourselves in.

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I think a sign and trade is possible, considering a lot of the contenders could want him

That beggars the question, what do we take back

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Originally Posted by AusPel

I think a sign and trade is possible, considering a lot of the contenders could want him

That beggars the question, what do we take back

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From contenders? Most of them have nothing to trade, or they would have gone in on him earlier; we heard that there was interest from LAC, for example. If they had anything good they could trade without losing core pieces for a playoff run, surely they would have just done it now rather than waiting until the summer?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

From contenders? Most of them have nothing to trade, or they would have gone in on him earlier; we heard that there was interest from LAC, for example. If they had anything good they could trade without losing core pieces for a playoff run, surely they would have just done it now rather than waiting until the summer?

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Yeah I don't think it's actually that likely.

The pool of suitors who can sign him outright is pretty small, gonna be very interesting

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Yeah I don't think it's actually that likely.

The pool of suitors who can sign him outright is pretty small, gonna be very interesting

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The thing is, while it's small, we do have reason to suspect that most of the teams that can do it are at least interested in acquiring him. Chicago, for example, will be able to afford it and we know they were deep in the trade picture for him right up until the deadline. Similarly, NYK will have the money and the connections between him and NY go back to when he was still in LA. Charlotte will have the money and Lamelo is right there.

Going to be a tense FA period for us while we find out whether we're screwed or not.

What were the circumstances of the sign and trade between Boston and Charlotte for Gordon Hayward?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

The thing is that trading him ''for peanuts'' (and whether you believe him or not, MM has said that Duncan Robinson was potentially on the table for Lonzo so you can think about whether that's peanuts to you or not) is the middle ground.

What you have now is an all or nothing choice.

Either you pay Lonzo whatever it costs - which is something you have zero control over.
Or you let him walk for nothing at all.

There's no middle ground anymore, there's no damage control. You mention the possibility of a sign and trade but

A) Sign and trades are rare in general, let alone for roleplayers
B) Why would a team sign and trade with us, thus costing themselves assets, when they have the cap space to just push us out anyway? Either we have to bite the bullet and pay him big time or they get what they want without costing themselves anything. Sign and trades require another team willing to help you when they usually have no real reason to do so.

So yeah, ''continues to improve'' is a big if, especially considering that his improvement actually hasn't been consistent so far anyway (he's been a Pelican for a season and a half now and has had wildly inconsistent statistical output during that time, and his defense has declined hard).

You either have to be willing to lose him for nothing at this point or take a wild leap of faith. Not an enviable position, and it's a position we put ourselves in.

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MM said Robinson was available? Really? Why not Durant and Lebron?

If Lonzo gets better and at the end stays with us it will be really good for us. There is much more to gain by keeping this a possibility rather than just getting rid of him for something small. Also what was really offered that Griffin rejected? I don’t believe it was Robinson at all

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Originally Posted by PolishFan

MM said Robinson was available? Really? Why not Durant and Lebron?

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Robinson isn't even nearly in the same conversation as those two and you know it, that's just being disingenuous really. Trading Robinson, who is like a top 80 player, is not at all an unreasonable thing for a team to do.

You can disbelieve that he was offered, which is totally fine and I can understand why you'd be sceptical, but to pretend that him being moved is just out of the question and on the same scale as trading Durant is just absurd.

The Heat dont want to pay Robinson. I would be surprised if he was on the team next year. He got offered to a few teams and no bites.

People were saying Joe Harris money earlier in the year, but judging on how lukewarm some teams were, I am not so sure

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Robinson isn't even nearly in the same conversation as those two and you know it, that's just being disingenuous really. Trading Robinson, who is like a top 80 player, is not at all an unreasonable thing for a team to do.

You can disbelieve that he was offered, which is totally fine and I can understand why you'd be sceptical, but to pretend that him being moved is just out of the question and on the same scale as trading Durant is just absurd.

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All I meant by that was that I don’t believe MM has any sources.

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Originally Posted by PolishFan

All I meant by that was that I don’t believe MM has any sources.

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Nor do I, really

Was this one posted already?

Timing seems sub-optimal.

Spoke to an agent on Lonzo Ball and his future with #Pelicans.

?Lonzo enjoys playing for the Pelicans but isn?t a fan of New Orleans. However, he really wants to end up with the #Knicks or #Bulls. That has been a dream of his. It?s likely he will try to leave this offseason.?

https://twitter.com/massey_evan/stat...411400197?s=19

Sometimes I hear mention about setting ourselves up to trade for the next big name to demand a trade.

If I had to pick one player to do so...I’m picking Damian Lillard. Someone tell me how you guard a pick and roll with Lillard as the ball handler off a Zion screen?

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Sometimes I hear mention about setting ourselves up to trade for the next big name to demand a trade.

If I had to pick one player to do so...I’m picking Damian Lillard. Someone tell me how you guard a pick and roll with Lillard as the ball handler off a Zion screen?

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You don't, but unlike KAT (for example), I find it almost impossible to imagine Lillard demanding a trade. It's like imagining the sky being made of soup or something.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

You don't, but unlike KAT (for example), I find it almost impossible to imagine Lillard demanding a trade. It's like imagining the sky being made of soup or something.

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True. That’s why I’m even saying it. Because you can’t even fathom it.

I don't see Lonzo really getting worse even if he doesn't continue to take large leaps in getting better as he has with his shooting I think he'll be a very good team guy, good defense and good enough shooting threat. If he could just stay aggressive going to the basket that would be another step he could take but he just seems he has to remind himself to get aggressive at times. So I think if you pay him and keep him 20 million a year or so he'll always be an attractive and easy piece to trade in the future. Guys with those skillsets are easy to fit into your team and always help. That salary seems easy enough to match and move, no?

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Originally Posted by OnesieBells

Was this one posted already?

Timing seems sub-optimal.

Spoke to an agent on Lonzo Ball and his future with #Pelicans.

?Lonzo enjoys playing for the Pelicans but isn?t a fan of New Orleans. However, he really wants to end up with the #Knicks or #Bulls. That has been a dream of his. It?s likely he will try to leave this offseason.?

https://twitter.com/massey_evan/stat...411400197?s=19

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Spoke to an agent on Lonzo Ball and his future with #Pelicans.

“Lonzo enjoys playing for the Pelicans but isn’t a fan of New Orleans. However, he really wants to end up with the #Knicks or #Bulls. That has been a dream of his. It’s likely he will try to leave this offseason.”

— Evan Massey (@massey_evan) March 28, 2021

I just embed the tweet for you

If this is true, a sign and trade isn't too likely but could happen. It's a big chance he leaves for a crazy amount, but I'm not too sad about that.

Some one is lying. Then again lonzo could be playing both sides.

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Originally Posted by hornetzplaya

Spoke to an agent on Lonzo Ball and his future with #Pelicans.

?Lonzo enjoys playing for the Pelicans but isn?t a fan of New Orleans. However, he really wants to end up with the #Knicks or #Bulls. That has been a dream of his. It?s likely he will try to leave this offseason.?

? Evan Massey (@massey_evan) March 28, 2021

I just embed the tweet for you

If this is true, a sign and trade isn't too likely but could happen. It's a big chance he leaves for a crazy amount, but I'm not too sad about that.

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You have to take the guys that say ?some agent? with a grain of salt. Not that it isn?t true, but it?s another nothing tweet.

Trade Zo and Ingram for Booker

Defenses don’t think those 2 can hit shots in pressure situations so they will just continue to triple team wall Zion in the 4th.

You build around Zion by trading away players that defenses aren’t scared about for players that have real shooting gravity.

Please don’t pay Zo

I love Zo but at this point bro is free to go and be free. Kira and NAW are the backcourt of the future and they love it here.

Yeah Zo gonna get a sign and trade this off season

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Yeah Zo gonna get a sign and trade this off season

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Interested to see how that'll go. Unless New York or whoever doesn't want to pay him 25M, I'd be ecstatic to do a S&T.

Edit: No this doesn't mean I WANT to get rid of Lonzo. I just don't agree with his demand of 20m so I would definitely trade him or let him walk.

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Originally Posted by hornetzplaya

Interested to see how that'll go. Unless New York or whoever doesn't want to pay him 25M, I'd be ecstatic to do a S&T.

Edit: No this doesn't mean I WANT to get rid of Lonzo. I just don't agree with his demand of 20m so I would definitely trade him or let him walk.

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The concerning part of a S&T is that he reportedly favors Chicago and NY, both teams that can create enough space to sign him. The more advantageous thing for the Pels would be him wanting to go to a team without a lot of cap so that we could get value out of a S&T as the Pels would have a little more leverage.

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Originally Posted by akhan786

Trade Zo and Ingram for Booker

Defenses don’t think those 2 can hit shots in pressure situations so they will just continue to triple team wall Zion in the 4th.

You build around Zion by trading away players that defenses aren’t scared about for players that have real shooting gravity.

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We can all dream that but it seems Booker is happy again in PHX.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

You have to take the guys that say ?some agent? with a grain of salt. Not that it isn?t true, but it?s another nothing tweet.

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Rich Paul. Look if you ever saw Zo’s show it is kind of how he feels.
https://youtu.be/EjlkDWemX0Q

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

The concerning part of a S&T is that he reportedly favors Chicago and NY, both teams that can create enough space to sign him. The more advantageous thing for the Pels would be him wanting to go to a team without a lot of cap so that we could get value out of a S&T as the Pels would have a little more leverage.

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Hey, if a team wants to pay Zo 22-25M after one good season I say let them limit their cap space. You see how that's working out for Washington with Davis Bertans.

Dennis Schroeder just turned down an 4/84 offer. Unless Dennis is pulling Nerlen Noel... Lonzo Ball maybe getting $22-$24 million per.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Dennis Schroeder just turned down an 4/84 offer. Unless Dennis is pulling Nerlen Noel... Lonzo Ball maybe getting $22-$24 million per.

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*Shrug* can't say I didn't see it coming.

https://youtu.be/SyAy0oU4e4c


Meh, he's lying.

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Originally Posted by hornetzplaya

https://youtu.be/SyAy0oU4e4c


Meh, he's lying.

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So, you hear it directly from his own mouth and now want to claim he is lying. A report by a writer you do not know and talks about discussions with someone other than Lonzo holds more credibility?

Lonzo will definitely stay and be happy if we pay him. If we met his number this offseason, he would've stayed. If we offer him around 20 this summer, he will stay. But saying he likes Chicago and New York is also smart for leverage. Imagine that he does want to stay, but also wants to get paid as much as possible -- should he say he wants to be here and only here no matter what? Of course not, because then the team will have no fear of loss. And fear of loss leads to people paying more.

Things are never as black or white as portrayed in the media or on message boards. "The Pelicans want to trade Lonzo" "The Pelicans will not move Lonzo" -- neither of those things are true. If the Bulls offer Lauri plus a first, he is a Bull right now. They didn't so he is a Pelican. And same will play out this summer. If the sign and trade offers are X and the price tag is Y, he is gone, but if offers are A and price tag is B, he will stay for now, and maybe for a while.

You could've asked Griff an hour before the deadline if Lonzo would be a Pelican and he would have said "I dont know" and passed a lie detector. He doesnt know if he will be here now, and neither does Lonzo or Rich Paul or New York or Chicago

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

So, you hear it directly from his own mouth and now want to claim he is lying. A report by a writer you do not know and talks about discussions with someone other than Lonzo holds more credibility?

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We're entitled to our own opinions. My opinion is, he's lying.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Lonzo will definitely stay and be happy if we pay him. If we met his number this offseason, he would've stayed. If we offer him around 20 this summer, he will stay. But saying he likes Chicago and New York is also smart for leverage. Imagine that he does want to stay, but also wants to get paid as much as possible -- should he say he wants to be here and only here no matter what? Of course not, because then the team will have no fear of loss. And fear of loss leads to people paying more.

Things are never as black or white as portrayed in the media or on message boards. "The Pelicans want to trade Lonzo" "The Pelicans will not move Lonzo" -- neither of those things are true. If the Bulls offer Lauri plus a first, he is a Bull right now. They didn't so he is a Pelican. And same will play out this summer. If the sign and trade offers are X and the price tag is Y, he is gone, but if offers are A and price tag is B, he will stay for now, and maybe for a while.

You could've asked Griff an hour before the deadline if Lonzo would be a Pelican and he would have said "I dont know" and passed a lie detector. He doesnt know if he will be here now, and neither does Lonzo or Rich Paul or New York or Chicago

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I can agree here. If he continues this level of play and is willing to stay for 20m. I'm okay with that. This young core can definitely do some damage with continuity.

It all depends on what he values more. Does he value his friendships here and the potential to win more? Zion and BI are probably the two biggest pieces he will get to play with if the other ‘preferred’ destinations are accurate. Does he value making stupid money in New York plus being in a big market? From everything I’ve seen and heard from him lately he strikes me as a lowkey guy that enjoys being out of the spotlight. It wouldn’t surprise me if he wasn’t lying. I can live with either direction, but he has to work with us if he wants to stay.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Lonzo will definitely stay and be happy if we pay him. If we met his number this offseason, he would've stayed. If we offer him around 20 this summer, he will stay. But saying he likes Chicago and New York is also smart for leverage. Imagine that he does want to stay, but also wants to get paid as much as possible -- should he say he wants to be here and only here no matter what? Of course not, because then the team will have no fear of loss. And fear of loss leads to people paying more.

Things are never as black or white as portrayed in the media or on message boards. "The Pelicans want to trade Lonzo" "The Pelicans will not move Lonzo" -- neither of those things are true. If the Bulls offer Lauri plus a first, he is a Bull right now. They didn't so he is a Pelican. And same will play out this summer. If the sign and trade offers are X and the price tag is Y, he is gone, but if offers are A and price tag is B, he will stay for now, and maybe for a while.

You could've asked Griff an hour before the deadline if Lonzo would be a Pelican and he would have said "I dont know" and passed a lie detector. He doesnt know if he will be here now, and neither does Lonzo or Rich Paul or New York or Chicago

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Dealing with reality as you did here is good and should, but probably won't, stop many of the ridiculous hot takes. I was wondering, though, if people have the past Knicks in mind when they think the Knicks will throw big money (25M-28M) at Lonzo. I can't believe current coach Thibodeau would be on board with that. He knows what prime D Rose was and Lonzo is not at that level. Amirite? Or can we only say, "We'll see"?

I love Kyra’s potential, and I’m also liking what NAW is doing. I like Zo but not as much as I like Kyra and Naw. This summer will be interesting.

In a perfect universe I would prefer a more traditional 3 and d guard. Someone who may not be the playmaker (in transition at least) that Lonzo is, but is a better (less streaky) shooter and more fundamentally sound defensively. But those guys are hard to come by in free agency especially if your a marker like New Orleans. So if our only option is pay Lonzo more than we would like, maybe we have to hold our nose and do it.

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Originally Posted by johnpagenola

Dealing with reality as you did here is good and should, but probably won't, stop many of the ridiculous hot takes. I was wondering, though, if people have the past Knicks in mind when they think the Knicks will throw big money (25M-28M) at Lonzo. I can't believe current coach Thibodeau would be on board with that. He knows what prime D Rose was and Lonzo is not at that level. Amirite? Or can we only say, "We'll see"?

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I have never worried about New York as the big, bad threat. First of all, Rich Paul and World Wide Wes/Leon Rose have some bad blood and that negotiation wont go smooth. Beyond that, I imagine the Knicks see themselves just as the Clippers and Nets were a year or so before landing their big fish. Respectable team, playing the right way in a large market. Why are they going to ruin flexibility by going and signing a B player at an A price?

Chicago is in a tough spot because they dont have a ton of cap room with Lauri's cap hold on the books and they also might want to use about 10 mil of their cap room to raise and extend Lavine, otherwise risk him hitting unrestricted free agency the following year.

Charlotte makes some sense, until you realize they have at least 2 (maybe 3 or 4) guards as good or better than Lonzo, and the two who are on par with him are much cheaper. They also have a huge hole up front and should go that way. Miami will prioritize Oladipo and/or Lowry first. And San Antonio doesnt need Lonzo, nor do I think Rich Paul will be in a rush to push him there.

So, where is this huge offer going to come from? My bet is that it wont. The only question is if they meet in the middle and sign the deal or if Lonzo goes and gets an offer sheet and brings it back to the Pels. Third path, of course, is a team without cap room has interest in him and has something the Pels covet more (Luke Kennard, Thybulle, etc)

I would bet on him being back here for about 4/72, and is always available if a good deal presents itself - as all good, but not great, players should be. You trade Bledsoe and picks for a front court player. Start Lonzo and NAW with Kira getting 7th man minutes and take the next step to possible home court team, all while keeping options open for that big move to put you over the top

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I would bet on him being back here for about 4/72, and is always available if a good deal presents itself - as all good, but not great, players should be. You trade Bledsoe and picks for a front court player. Start Lonzo and NAW with Kira getting 7th man minutes and take the next step to possible home court team, all while keeping options open for that big move to put you over the top

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If he signs for that, it should still be a contract that is moveable if a better deal comes available.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

If he signs for that, it should still be a contract that is moveable if a better deal comes available.

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Absolutely.

I still say watch the Clippers. Rondo is a very short term fix (if at all). I could see a a sign and trade with LAC.