2021 NBA Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

Am I wrong in thinking that Cory Kispert would be the safest pick in regards to helping our team win this year? After 4 years at gonzaga, he undoubtedly grasps what is needed to play solid team defense; plus, he brings a skill that happens to be our biggest need in his shooting, both 3pt and FT


id have a hard time passing up a guy that would almost certainly contribute the first tear

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Kispert is reach at 8th-10th to be honest

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Kispert is reach at 8th-10th to be honest

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Yeah I agree.

I like Kispert a lot, and earlier in the year I had him at probably somewhere in the 11-13 range, and even that might have been a touch generous. He wouldn't be a terrible pick, I do think he would be a fine player but I think there are better upside plays than him who are probably still there at that spot. I think of him more as being like a 13-16 guy now, for the most part.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Yeah I agree.

I like Kispert a lot, and earlier in the year I had him at probably somewhere in the 11-13 range, and even that might have been a touch generous. He wouldn't be a terrible pick, I do think he would be a fine player but I think there are better upside plays than him who are probably still there at that spot. I think of him more as being like a 13-16 guy now, for the most part.

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I like this draft so much... I'd have no problem double dipping.


If you do... Hart and Ball probably got to go. You possibly have to move Lewis or NAW to facilitate it. Move Bledsoe. Sign Powell and (ugh... If you can't trade for a better option) a solid vet PG on the cheap. I can see keeping Hart to balance out the youth move.


And to clarify... I don't want Dinwiddie or Lowry at his age. I just want a stopgap solution that's better than what we have. Maybe we'll get lucky if Minn wins the Lottery and looking to move Russell(Not a fan either)

I swear... It feels like the only way to fix the PG position is to win the lottery this year or bet on Lonzo.. Or just get a transition player like Lowry.

This offseason feels like its going to be tough.

I just hope if get into the top 4. We go BPA and draft Mobley instead of reaching on a guard if Green or Cade are gone.

Of everyone in the draft I personally would want Evan Mobley. What would it take to get to the 2nd or 3rd pick. Would two future 1st and 2 second rounders do it? W our pick this year

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

Of everyone in the draft I personally would want Evan Mobley. What would it take to get to the 2nd or 3rd pick. Would two future 1st and 2 second rounders do it? W our pick this year

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I think if you pay multiple firsts and multiple seconds (3 FRPs by your estimation here) to move up to the second best spot in a draft, you're being a bit uh

Generous with your assets.

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

Of everyone in the draft I personally would want Evan Mobley. What would it take to get to the 2nd or 3rd pick. Would two future 1st and 2 second rounders do it? W our pick this year

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If a guy is truly believed to be in the top tier, you cant get there. Not from another team. Maybe if you have 3 or 4 and the team at 2 likes someone as much or doesnt need a big, you can make a swap. But you cant get from 8 or 9 into the top tier - doesnt matter how many picks you give up. This isnt the NFL draft

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I think if you pay multiple firsts and multiple seconds (3 FRPs by your estimation here) to move up to the second best spot in a draft, you're being a bit uh

Generous with your assets.

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I dont agree. In retrospect, how much should the Bulls have paid to go from 7, and Coby White, to #2 and Ja? I would give up way more than that. I mean, they basically gave up 3 firsts for Vucevic (Carter and 2 firsts)... you wouldnt give up White and Vucevic for Ja?

If you have a guy in the top tier, there is no amount that is too much. And it doesnt matter any way because that team wouldnt do it. I wont put Mobley on a Duncan level, but I think he is a clear elite prospect, similar to a Ja or a KAT - where, no they arent sure fire like Duncan, AD, etc but it would be shocking if they werent a cornerstone. NBA history says you cant trade into that from a lower tier

I'm in the Chris Duarte fan club. Only real knock on him is he might be the oldest player in this draft. Which is just fine for this franchise. We see how well Naji turned out as an older rookie.

He checks almost every box as far as team needs. Another of these 6'5"+ switchable wings with a high defensive basketball IQ. Also not as much of a playmaker, but fully capable of layup assists.

Would be a nice late 1st/2nd round pick.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

I'm in the Chris Duarte fan club. Only real knock on him is he might be the oldest player in this draft. Which is just fine for this franchise. We see how well Naji turned out as an older rookie.

He checks almost every box as far as team needs. Another of these 6'5"+ switchable wings with a high defensive basketball IQ. Also not as much of a playmaker, but fully capable of layup assists.

Would be a nice late 1st/2nd round pick.

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Seconded.

If we keep one/any of our 2nd rounders, Duarte would be a solid pickup.

Moody and Mitchell are my two favorite prospects for the Pelicans, assuming we are picking between 8-10 range.

Griff said he wants shooting, toughness and BBIQ and that sums up Davion Mitchell. He is an older rookie, so he would be ready to contribute from day one. Provides exactly what we need. Moody is the best 3&D prospect in the draft to me. 6'6 - 2/3 guard with a 7'0 wingspan. Constant off-ball movement to stress the defense would work perfectly with Zion. He is a good shooter with the potential to be a great shooter. He doesn't shy away from big shots, which I like. He is the higher ceiling guy of the two, as he turns 19 right before the draft.

I'd be happy as hell to get either one. I like Garuba as well, but not as much in the 8-10 range.

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Originally Posted by RUFshreve

Moody and Mitchell are my two favorite prospects for the Pelicans, assuming we are picking between 8-10 range.

Griff said he wants shooting, toughness and BBIQ and that sums up Davion Mitchell. He is an older rookie, so he would be ready to contribute from day one. Provides exactly what we need. Moody is the best 3&D prospect in the draft to me. 6'6 - 2/3 guard with a 7'0 wingspan. Constant off-ball movement to stress the defense would work perfectly with Zion. He is a good shooter with the potential to be a great shooter. He doesn't shy away from big shots, which I like. He is the higher ceiling guy of the two, as he turns 19 right before the draft.

I'd be happy as hell to get either one. I like Garuba as well, but not as much in the 8-10 range.

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My top 2 as well. Assuming Mr. upside Keon Johnson is off the board.

I've spent hours this past week watching tape on Jalen Green and Cade Cunningham. And I honestly do not understand how Cade is the clear cut number 1 pick. Green is so much better. Green will be a star. Like top 3 in the NBA star. His movements are like Jordan. That kid is truly special. If Pelicans are blessed with the number 1 pick again. I would take Green and wouldn't think twice about it.

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Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans

I've spent hours this past week watching tape on Jalen Green and Cade Cunningham. And I honestly do not understand how Cade is the clear cut number 1 pick. Green is so much better. Green will be a star. Like top 3 in the NBA star. His movements are like Jordan. That kid is truly special. If Pelicans are blessed with the number 1 pick again. I would take Green and wouldn't think twice about it.

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Cade, Green and Mobley all offer tremendous things. You can make a case for #1 for all of them. Suggs is my definite #4.

I really want Keon Johnson. Guy is a stud

I quite like Bouknight's game too

This draft class seems stacked as ********

Can't believe Chicago gave up their 1st for Vooch. Orlando in a great position

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Cade, Green and Mobley all offer tremendous things. You can make a case for #1 for all of them. Suggs is my definite #4.

I really want Keon Johnson. Guy is a stud

I quite like Bouknight's game too

This draft class seems stacked as ********

Can't believe Chicago gave up their 1st for Vooch. Orlando in a great position

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Agree with all of this

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Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans

I've spent hours this past week watching tape on Jalen Green and Cade Cunningham. And I honestly do not understand how Cade is the clear cut number 1 pick. Green is so much better. Green will be a star. Like top 3 in the NBA star. His movements are like Jordan. That kid is truly special. If Pelicans are blessed with the number 1 pick again. I would take Green and wouldn't think twice about it.

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Green is my favorite prospect of the last couple of years, but I will say that Cade has a better fit. I low key hope we the #2 or 3rd pick, because I really want Green or Mobley and that's the only way we get them. if we win the lottery, I'd have to pick Cade because he solves a way bigger need than Green and there are more SG options than PG options. Especially, if we move on from Lonzo.

You never ever draft for current need. What if you trade Ingram in a few years and now you need a dynamic perimeter scorer. Always take the guy you think will be the best player in their prime. Never, ever draft for current need at the top of the draft

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

You never ever draft for current need. What if you trade Ingram in a few years and now you need a dynamic perimeter scorer. Always take the guy you think will be the best player in their prime. Never, ever draft for current need at the top of the draft

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What's your parameters for "top of the draft"

Lottery? Or until guys get to be homogenised

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

You never ever draft for current need. What if you trade Ingram in a few years and now you need a dynamic perimeter scorer. Always take the guy you think will be the best player in their prime. Never, ever draft for current need at the top of the draft

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This

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Yeah I agree.

I like Kispert a lot, and earlier in the year I had him at probably somewhere in the 11-13 range, and even that might have been a touch generous. He wouldn't be a terrible pick, I do think he would be a fine player but I think there are better upside plays than him who are probably still there at that spot. I think of him more as being like a 13-16 guy now, for the most part.

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I’ve just seen so many college shooters struggle in the NBA. At the very least most of them take a while to acclimate to the pro defense.

And I’ve seen a lot of guys who weren’t the best shooters in college, develop a good outside shot in the pros. Shooting is really one of the things that can develop a lot through time and practice.

I’d sooner get a guy who you know can play defense on the wing, because we got enough offensive wing players who struggle defensively.

The fact that he struggled against the length and athleticism of Baylor is also a big red flag for me.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

You never ever draft for current need. What if you trade Ingram in a few years and now you need a dynamic perimeter scorer. Always take the guy you think will be the best player in their prime. Never, ever draft for current need at the top of the draft

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Just because I personally like a prospect more =/= He's a better prospect.

And you do draft for need to some extent. It's a balancing act of grading prospects, evaluating needs, draft placement and roster construction. You're always drafting for need until you have an answer for it. This myth of only BPA is kind of annoying. Like you got to have a vision and fit.

A lot of people try to misinterprete a team "reaching" on a prospect as filling a need like we have any idea what's their big board. For all we know... Their reach is their BPA.

It isn't like we split hairs between drafting Embiid, Parker, and Wiggins. Which I didn't care for Wiggins or Parker.

I really really love the top 3 in this draft and I feel super confident in all of them. I just have it ranked

Cade
Green
Mobley

I get as Sport MEDIA guy... It's all about being honory and making confident takes. I really don't have that take with these guy in this class. I can be pretty happy with any of the three, but I see the hierarchy in which they can go.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Just because I personally like a prospect more =/= He's a better prospect.

And you do draft for need to some extent. It's a balancing act of grading prospects, evaluating needs, draft placement and roster construction. You're always drafting for need until you have an answer for it. This myth of only BPA is kind of annoying. Like you got to have a vision and fit.

A lot of people try to misinterprete a team "reaching" on a prospect as filling a need like we have any idea what's their big board. For all we know... Their reach is their BPA.

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I think you draft for need if you're already a good team trying to pick up guys to fit niches and stuff like that. Where you know who your main guys are, you're secure in them being long-term pieces, and you're just looking to fill out the surrounding guys. Those guys, generally speaking, are not lottery teams.

When you're in the lottery, I think you just pick the guy you think will be the best player. If that means drafting, say, a PG two years in a row then who cares; you need talent and if that means you have to move one of them later on, that's not the end of the world. What's much worse is missing on a player you thought you would be great for a player who is clearly inferior but fits a better need on paper.

No player fits the needs of a bad team more than the best player. Because a bad team just needs talent.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I think you draft for need if you're already a good team trying to pick up guys to fit niches and stuff like that. Where you know who your main guys are, you're secure in them being long-term pieces, and you're just looking to fill out the surrounding guys. Those guys, generally speaking, are not lottery teams.

When you're in the lottery, I think you just pick the guy you think will be the best player. If that means drafting, say, a PG two years in a row then who cares; you need talent and if that means you have to move one of them later on, that's not the end of the world. What's much worse is missing on a player you thought you would be great for a player who is clearly inferior but fits a better need on paper.

No player fits the needs of a bad team more than the best player. Because a bad team just needs talent.

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That?s the logic you draft for everything is a need until you have the answer, because you have no answer. Everything is just a need at that point. But we aren't terrible. We just aren't any good. We have some answers. We just to got draft around them and this how you get into the balancing act of need, BPA, and roster construction.

If they can leave this draft with any 1 or 2 man combination of Johnson/Moody/Mitchell/Duarte/Todd I'd be ecstatic with that. They all balance need and BPA if they go where I think they will.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Seconded.

If we keep one/any of our 2nd rounders, Duarte would be a solid pickup.

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I think he's going late teens/early 20s.

But I really wouldn't mind moving our lotto pick, bledsoe and some 2nds for Houstons two firsts if we could pick up Duarte and Butler at those spots.

Yal are certainly high on keon johnson, why?

given he is a special athlete, but doesn't he still have to learn how to play. I havn't looked into him that hard cause I didn't think we would pick someone who may or may not ever learn how to ball



11 pts
3.5 rebounds
2.5 assist
2.6 tov
27% on threes

is rather underwhelming. Jared Butler would probably help our team more in the near future, To me Butler's floor is Etwann Moore

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

I think he's going late teens/early 20s.

But I really wouldn't mind moving our lotto pick, bledsoe and some 2nds for Houstons two firsts if we could pick up Duarte and Butler at those spots.

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I wouldnt mind giving up 3 pennies and a nickle for two dollars either!

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I wouldnt mind giving up 3 pennies and a nickle for two dollars either!

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Lmao yeah....

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I wouldnt mind giving up 3 pennies and a nickle for two dollars either!

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?


Did you assume I meant their lotto pick? I clearly meant the ones they own in the 20s.

8, Bledsoe's dead weight, 2nds for two picks in the 20s.

Pretty fair price for a trade down.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

?


Did you assume I meant their lotto pick? I clearly meant the ones they own in the 20s.

8, Bledsoe's dead weight, 2nds for two picks in the 20s.

Pretty fair price for a trade down.

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I think he misunderstood. I think our first, a couple seconds, and Bledsoe for their 2 20’s picks shouldn’t be too far off. I think the rockets would want to consolidate and move up anyway. Pundits keep saying teams don’t want a lot of rookies so this move makes sense. I think they would like 1 and then 4 from us (I’m trying to will it into happening though I wouldn’t trade it if we got in top 4)

Or if they keep a 1st round pick and Mitchell and Moody are gone if they stay at 10--- trade down and target Chris Duarte or Ayo Dosunmu. Use any extra picks gained to help offload Bledsoe ASAP.

The type of pick nobody will like, but I could see Griff considering:

#10 and Bledsoe for 19, 21, and Dallas 2023 pick

Then, he trades 19 for a future first and 21 for a future first - like he did last year with the RJ Hampton pick.

Basically, he trades 10 for three future 1sts, all likely to be in the late teens or 20s, but they are assets to put in a future deal. Also, get off Bledsoe and add a TPE.

Go into the offseason with the ability to make uneven trades and with a ton of picks. Can use a bunch on one guy or 1-2 on multiple guys. Nobody would be a fan of it on draft night, but Griff would use those picks in the next week or two to acquire young vets. Or, use the cap space to go after a Norman Powell or Duncan Robinson and then use the picks at the deadline to go get a few guys.

Likely? No, nothing is likely. But its the type of possibility that people should prepare for if Griff has 10 on the auction block and doesnt really like the players being offered for it. I think thats far more likely than him just taking a guy at 10 to keep

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

The type of pick nobody will like, but I could see Griff considering:

#10 and Bledsoe for 19, 21, and Dallas 2023 pick

Then, he trades 19 for a future first and 21 for a future first - like he did last year with the RJ Hampton pick.

Basically, he trades 10 for three future 1sts, all likely to be in the late teens or 20s, but they are assets to put in a future deal. Also, get off Bledsoe and add a TPE.

Go into the offseason with the ability to make uneven trades and with a ton of picks. Can use a bunch on one guy or 1-2 on multiple guys. Nobody would be a fan of it on draft night, but Griff would use those picks in the next week or two to acquire young vets. Or, use the cap space to go after a Norman Powell or Duncan Robinson and then use the picks at the deadline to go get a few guys.

Likely? No, nothing is likely. But its the type of possibility that people should prepare for if Griff has 10 on the auction block and doesnt really like the players being offered for it. I think thats far more likely than him just taking a guy at 10 to keep

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Is it true that Griff would have traded Haliburton to Dallas last year?

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

The type of pick nobody will like, but I could see Griff considering:

#10 and Bledsoe for 19, 21, and Dallas 2023 pick

Then, he trades 19 for a future first and 21 for a future first - like he did last year with the RJ Hampton pick.

Basically, he trades 10 for three future 1sts, all likely to be in the late teens or 20s, but they are assets to put in a future deal. Also, get off Bledsoe and add a TPE.

Go into the offseason with the ability to make uneven trades and with a ton of picks. Can use a bunch on one guy or 1-2 on multiple guys. Nobody would be a fan of it on draft night, but Griff would use those picks in the next week or two to acquire young vets. Or, use the cap space to go after a Norman Powell or Duncan Robinson and then use the picks at the deadline to go get a few guys.

Likely? No, nothing is likely. But its the type of possibility that people should prepare for if Griff has 10 on the auction block and doesnt really like the players being offered for it. I think thats far more likely than him just taking a guy at 10 to keep

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Doesn't sound too bad if he has a veteran in mind and would prefer multiple picks to deal with rather than just the #10.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Doesn't sound too bad if he has a veteran in mind and would prefer multiple picks to deal with rather than just the #10.

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I think he might do that, even if nothing was a lock yet, just to have optionality. I think Griff's rankings would go:

1. Offload Bledsoe + picks for a guy he LOVES
2. Offload Bledsoe + a pick for a guy he likes
3. Send 10 for a grab bag of current and future picks to later attach to Bledsoe (or attach Bledsoe in that deal)
4. Draft a guy at #10 he knows many teams around the league likes
5. Draft a guy at 10 he likes, to keep

It only takes one team, but I think with the way the draft falls off a cliff after the first four guys the Pelicans options are pretty limited. I was completely against it last year, but I wouldn't mind kicking the can down the road in a scenario like McNamara described above. You may find a team that likes a guy, but it should be difficult to fall in love with someone at that draft slot. At least love to a point that you're willing to give up something of real value for.

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Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

It only takes one team, but I think with the way the draft falls off a cliff after the first four guys the Pelicans options are pretty limited. I was completely against it last year, but I wouldn't mind kicking the can down the road in a scenario like McNamara described above. You may find a team that likes a guy, but it should be difficult to fall in love with someone at that draft slot. At least love to a point that you're willing to give up something of real value for.

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I think the "falls off a cliff" thing is a bit dramatic. First of all, I dont think any of the top 4 guys are cornerstones. I would take Ja over all of them. Trae too - and I think those are two flawed guys when you are talking about top guy on top team level.

I think 5-12 is a tier, and then I think there is a fall off. And I think different teams will love different guys in that 5-12 tier. For instance, I have been told Toronto has already soft promised Sengun if they dont jump into the top 4. There might be a team later in the draft who feels that way about Giddey or Mitchell. Where we have to get lucky is hoping teams 5-9 love their own guy and dont want to trade their pick

Teams 5 to 9 are all in a rebuilding phase, except Sactown perhaps. I think it's unlikely any of them trade out.

Actually, GSW could trade out

I haven't looked at any Seton Hall games yet, but Sandro Mamukelashvili looks intriguing as a UDFA prospect to me.

Won't be shocked is he does end up getting drafted.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

I haven't looked at any Seton Hall games yet, but Sandro Mamukelashvili looks intriguing as a UDFA prospect to me.

Won't be shocked is he does end up getting drafted.

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He's very fun. Late second round or UDFA, like you say, but some intriguing flashes and (most importantly) a very cool name.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I think he might do that, even if nothing was a lock yet, just to have optionality. I think Griff's rankings would go:

1. Offload Bledsoe + picks for a guy he LOVES
2. Offload Bledsoe + a pick for a guy he likes
3. Send 10 for a grab bag of current and future picks to later attach to Bledsoe (or attach Bledsoe in that deal)
4. Draft a guy at #10 he knows many teams around the league likes
5. Draft a guy at 10 he likes, to keep

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How likely do you think Griff would be to use the pick, if we land in the top 4? Do you still think he would try to trade it for a veteran?

I'm cool trading 10 or 11 for a vet, but if we landed top 4 and traded out for anything other than a legit star #2 type player, I would be really disappointed.

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Originally Posted by RUFshreve

I'm cool trading 10 or 11 for a vet, but if we landed top 4 and traded out for anything other than a legit star #2 type player, I would be really disappointed.

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I share this opinion.

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Originally Posted by RUFshreve

How likely do you think Griff would be to use the pick, if we land in the top 4? Do you still think he would try to trade it for a veteran?

I'm cool trading 10 or 11 for a vet, but if we landed top 4 and traded out for anything other than a legit star #2 type player, I would be really disappointed.

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If it?s top 4 I almost think he would have to use it unless someone gives us a really good player, I?m being vague I know.

If It was Suggs or Kaminga at 4 maybe he?d be more likely, but if somehow it was Mobley or Green you almost have to draft them unless you?re getting an all star in return IMO

Mobley or Green would be amazing, but you still dangle the carrot and see who bites

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Mobley or Green would be amazing, but you still dangle the carrot and see who bites

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Absolutely, you always listen

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Absolutely, you always listen

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I'd have to go for any one of the top three or four.

But I was just checking moses moody again and realized I've overthought the dude. Unlike almost everyone else, his length for his position and his shooting form scream NBA shooting guard for years to come. straight up, he will always be getting that shot off AND he is a good shooter already

he could be plugged in from the get-go imo

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

I'd have to go for any one of the top three or four.

But I was just checking moses moody again and realized I've overthought the dude. Unlike almost everyone else, his length for his position and his shooting form scream NBA shooting guard for years to come. straight up, he will always be getting that shot off AND he is a good shooter already

he could be plugged in from the get-go imo

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Agreed, Moody is a plug and play from day 1 and will be good at his job.

I really feel like Moody could be the first off the board after the top quartet dudes go.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

I really feel like Moody could be the first off the board after the top quartet dudes go.

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I dont see it. Teams will almost always go upside over floor that high in the draft. Unless its a team like GS picking that high, who is ready to try to win big immediately, the teams that high arent drafting for need or find a rotation piece. They need guys who have even a small chance of being a high end cornerstone piece. Guys like Barnes or Keon Johnson, etc will almost always go before a guy like Moody

The issue with drafting a high floor but lower ceiling guy high is the second contract. Take someone like Deandre Hunter. Playing really well for Atlanta right now..solid piece. But when he comes up for an extension, what do you think a young wing, former #4 pick will ask for?

Now, all of a sudden, you are going to have to vastly overplay a solid role player to keep him. Can probably get similar production from a vet for the MLE but you will have to pay 20-25 mil for Hunter, who has little to no chance at being much more than a very good role player. I call it the 'Otto Porter problem'

And if I had to make an argument for someone like Kispert, that would be it. In no world is he gonna demand a 100 million dollar 2nd contract. He will be 26 or 27 and nobody will see some unrealized upside in him. So, he could be the same level of player as say a Jalen Johnson in his 2nd contract but Johnson got 4/100 because he showed some flashes and was 23 when the 2nd contract was signed. While Kispert gets 3/35 and outperforms his 2nd deal like Doug McDermott did his.

Otto Porter gave more value in his first contract, but was a burden in his 2nd while McDermott outperformed his 2nd