AD trade scenarios...

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Randle isn't staying here, imo. We don't have much money once everything is said and done, and unless he wants to hang around for $10m or so, he's gone. Besides, he's kind of made redundant by Zion, who is a similar player in a lot of ways but just a lot better.

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Yea but it would be fun to watch both of those guys on the floor at the same time. I feel bad for the defense...no i don't.

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Originally Posted by DaPelFromHell

This would be my absolute dream offseason:

Brooklyn: AD

Pelicans: Sign & trade De’Angelo Russell, Caris LeVert, Jarrett Allen, Indiana’s SG/SF Romeo Langford(the 17th pick) or Kentucky’s SF/SG Keldon Johnson & LSU PF/C Naz Reid(the 27th pick)

We draft Purdue G Carsen Edwards at 37 and UCLA PG Jaylen Hands at 57.


C: Allen, Okafor
PF: Zion, Reid (a big PF that can also play center would be a perfect backup to Zion)
SF: LeVert, Langford or Johnson (either wing would be the player I would hope the Nets take at 17 if he makes it there)
SG: Jrue, Moore, Edwards
PG: Russell, Hands


I would take those 5 players for AD and be extremely happy. So hopefully the Nets would take those 2 if available. Then hopefully we get some decent players in the 2nd round. A backup point guard would be nice and I would love the best player available at whatever position at 37. I like Edwards as a Lou Williams type guard that would fit in nice with a bigger point guard like Russell. I didn’t list all the players we have either, mainly just the offseason additions.

This doesn’t even include any free agent signings. I wouldn’t mind bringing back Payton to be our backup point guard if the moneys right.

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How do you negotiate a S&T with Russell before the draft?

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Originally Posted by Pels4Life

Yea but it would be fun to watch both of those guys on the floor at the same time. I feel bad for the defense...no i don't.

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I feel bad for Zion and Jrue, who'd be out there killing themselves on D while Randle takes a coffee break.

Draft Day goes something like this...

Pelicans take Zion
Grizzlies take Ja
Knicks take RJ


We have a trade...!!

Pels get Ja, Knox, Trier, Ntilikina, Valanciunas, 2019 Knicks 2nd Round, 2021 Mavs pick, 2022 Knicks pick, 2023 Mavs pick
Grizzlies get RJ, Mitchell Robinson, DSJ, Lance Thomas, E'Twaun Moore, Pels 2019 2nd Round, 2020 Knicks pick
Knicks get Anthony Davis

We roll into free agency with...

Ja/Frank/Ntilikina
Jrue/Trier
Knox/Kenrich/Solo
Zion/Wood
Valanciunas/Okafor/Diallo

Everyone seems to want Ja. So we get Ja. We give up a solid 2nd round pick (#39), and the Knicks give up a 2020 1st round pick in order to move up from #3 to #2. They're also getting a swing at DSJ and Mitchell Robinson, who would be a solid paring with Jackson in their front court. For purposes of my (wishful) thinking, Valanciunas opts in and the Grizz include him in the deal while we offload Lance/E'Twuan on them. That part of the deal might be very unlikely, but that's why I thew in our high 2nd round pick.

Valanciunas would lead a nice center group along with Okafor and Wood to put with Zion. Knox is a complete project. If he has to go to Memphis in order to make this deal, I'd do it.

I'm less high on Ja than most, but these two dudes would be the foundation of the Pelicans future and having 3 future first round picks would give us a lot of flexibility to build around them. Unless some depth and shooting come via free agency, I think we suck next year with this trade - which means another lottery pick and maybe even an amicable trade of Jrue that brings on even more assets.

(This concludes my TED talk)

thats alot of math right there...alot of things have to happen right

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I feel bad for Zion and Jrue, who'd be out there killing themselves on D while Randle takes a coffee break.

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don't think randle hussles enough?

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Draft Day goes something like this...

Pelicans take Zion
Grizzlies take Ja
Knicks take RJ


We have a trade...!!

Pels get Ja, Knox, Trier, Ntilikina, Valanciunas, 2019 Knicks 2nd Round, 2021 Mavs pick, 2022 Knicks pick, 2023 Mavs pick
Grizzlies get RJ, Mitchell Robinson, DSJ, Lance Thomas, E'Twaun Moore, Pels 2019 2nd Round, 2020 Knicks pick
Knicks get Anthony Davis

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A lot of this sounds cool, except for a few key things.

1) Why on earth would Memphis give up Ja? They want Ja. They like Ja. Every sign we have says they are targetting Ja, and that they're ready to move on from Conley. Why would they suddenly pivot and decide that Barrett is their guy? Especially when they already have the #2, so if they wanted to take Barrett after all they could just do that without giving up any other assets.

2) Why would we want Valanciunas? He's 27 years old so it's pretty fair to assume that he is what he is at this point, and that's a decent player but nothing special. He has no real reliable range on offense, is not a great defender, and isn't a fantastic rebounder either (though he isn't awful on the boards). He's just a solid guy, but in the deal you're envisioning he's the clear second best player, so that brings us to:

3) The picks aren't that great. If the laundry list of players isn't fantastic, which it isn't because we're for some reason getting Knox, Trier, and Ntilikina, none of whom were particularly impressive for the Knicks this year, then the picks need to be good. You've got us losing out on the 3rd pick for the second in Ja, which is fine, but then you've got us getting no Knicks FRPs until 2022? So we get nothing for next year at all? That's pretty absurd when we could just wait until the draft and get the Knicks' 2020 pick as well, which isn't likely to be great but the point isn't to have great picks every year, it's to have a constant stream of resources and assets to make moves with and to keep young names coming in.

4) Why would the Knicks do this? They gain AD, sure, but they could do that in a potential trade just with us giving up something like #3, the 2020 FRP, the Mavs picks, Robinson and Trier. In your deal, they're giving up all of that, but also giving up DSJ, Knox, Thomas, and Ntilikina, despite gaining nothing extra. They're shipping out literally everything in this scenario for no extra return.

5) Robinson is the best prospect the Knicks have to offer outside of their pick. Why would we want to lose out on him? He's shown more promise than Knox, Ntilikina, and Trier combined, and he's a much better get than Valanciunas because of age, contract, and fit (Valanciunas is a more traditional big in terms of offense, whereas Robinson fits today's kind of Clint Capela roll-and-put-back-guy mold), and would be easy to acquire through just the Knicks trade.

This isn't the worst trade proposal I've seen, but I'm not a fan of it at all. A lot to be nervous about, a few weird problems, and I don't see the advantage that it has over just taking the Knicks trade on its own. You'd have to think Ja was miles better than Barrett for this to make sense.

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Originally Posted by Pels4Life

don't think randle hussles enough?

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Randle is bad on defense.

He's an exceptionally talented inside scorer. But he is absolutely horrendous on D. One of the worst big-minute players in the league this year on that side of the ball. He doesn't look interested, at all.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Randle is bad on defense.

He's an exceptionally talented inside scorer. But he is absolutely horrendous on D. One of the worst big-minute players in the league this year on that side of the ball. He doesn't look interested, at all.

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well he was #1 in forwards committing fouls. That has to mean something lol.

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Originally Posted by Pels4Life

well he was #1 in forwards committing fouls. That has to mean something lol.

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It means that rather than play D, he'd foul to bail himself out.

I'm joking there, but only a little bit. Randle had a few games where he clearly put the effort in, and when he does that he can be an okay-ish defender, but he just doesn't care. Doesn't close out with any kind of urgency, rotates super late, often just loses his man from a lack of focus, doesn't really box out that well on boards, is just generally a step or two slow on everything. It's actually painful to watch.

Jah sucked on defense most of the time too, but he was clearly trying and just didn't have the foot-speed, or the instinct. Randle has the foot speed. He's strong enough to play D on anyone in the post. He just isn't interested. Doesn't get box score stats for closing out, so it's not worth it to him.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

A lot of this sounds cool, except for a few key things.

1) Why on earth would Memphis give up Ja? They want Ja. They like Ja. Every sign we have says they are targetting Ja, and that they're ready to move on from Conley. Why would they suddenly pivot and decide that Barrett is their guy? Especially when they already have the #2, so if they wanted to take Barrett after all they could just do that without giving up any other assets.

2) Why would we want Valanciunas? He's 27 years old so it's pretty fair to assume that he is what he is at this point, and that's a decent player but nothing special. He has no real reliable range on offense, is not a great defender, and isn't a fantastic rebounder either (though he isn't awful on the boards). He's just a solid guy, but in the deal you're envisioning he's the clear second best player, so that brings us to:

3) The picks aren't that great. If the laundry list of players isn't fantastic, which it isn't because we're for some reason getting Knox, Trier, and Ntilikina, none of whom were particularly impressive for the Knicks this year, then the picks need to be good. You've got us losing out on the 3rd pick for the second in Ja, which is fine, but then you've got us getting no Knicks FRPs until 2022? So we get nothing for next year at all? That's pretty absurd when we could just wait until the draft and get the Knicks' 2020 pick as well, which isn't likely to be great but the point isn't to have great picks every year, it's to have a constant stream of resources and assets to make moves with and to keep young names coming in.

4) Why would the Knicks do this? They gain AD, sure, but they could do that in a potential trade just with us giving up something like #3, the 2020 FRP, the Mavs picks, Robinson and Trier. In your deal, they're giving up all of that, but also giving up DSJ, Knox, Thomas, and Ntilikina, despite gaining nothing extra. They're shipping out literally everything in this scenario for no extra return.

5) Robinson is the best prospect the Knicks have to offer outside of their pick. Why would we want to lose out on him? He's shown more promise than Knox, Ntilikina, and Trier combined, and he's a much better get than Valanciunas because of age, contract, and fit (Valanciunas is a more traditional big in terms of offense, whereas Robinson fits today's kind of Clint Capela roll-and-put-back-guy mold), and would be easy to acquire through just the Knicks trade.

This isn't the worst trade proposal I've seen, but I'm not a fan of it at all. A lot to be nervous about, a few weird problems, and I don't see the advantage that it has over just taking the Knicks trade on its own. You'd have to think Ja was miles better than Barrett for this to make sense.

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I'm not a huge fan of it either. Started with the premise of... HOW DO WE GET JA?

It makes sense for the Grizz to zero in on the player they perceive to be the higher value (Ja), even if they like someone else (RJ) just as much. Grizzlies should be looking to entice someone to move up while they still get the guy they really want. If you're going to get Memphis to move from 2 to 3 though, you have to entice them. The #3 pick, the Knicks 2020 pick, DSJ, and Robinson are what you offer. For the Grizz they get 3 assets and a guy they like in RJ. All they had to do was convince the world they'd fallen in love with Ja. Seems logical to me.

Pels really only do this if they really think Ja is a can't miss prospect at PG. If they love Ja, you do this deal and are thrilled to have the foundation of your franchise set between Zion and Ja for the next 8 years at least.

The Knicks give up all of that because their dream is to cash out for AD/KD and either Kyrie or Kemba. To make that happen, they can't keep all those players anyway and to move ahead of the other teams in the AD sweepstakes they HAVE TO go all in because their assets are the least established.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

I'm not a huge fan of it either. Started with the premise of... HOW DO WE GET JA?

It makes sense for the Grizz to zero in on the player they perceive to be the higher value (Ja), even if they like someone else (RJ) just as much. Grizzlies should be looking to entice someone to move up while they still get the guy they really want. If you're going to get Memphis to move from 2 to 3 though, you have to entice them. The #3 pick, the Knicks 2020 pick, DSJ, and Robinson are what you offer. For the Grizz they get 3 assets and a guy they like in RJ. All they had to do was convince the world they'd fallen in love with Ja. Seems logical to me.

Pels really only do this if they really think Ja is a can't miss prospect at PG. If they love Ja, you do this deal and are thrilled to have the foundation of your franchise set between Zion and Ja for the next 8 years at least.

The Knicks give up all of that because their dream is to cash out for AD/KD and either Kyrie or Kemba. To make that happen, they can't keep all those players anyway and to move ahead of the other teams in the AD sweepstakes they HAVE TO go all in because their assets are the least established.

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Sure, but the Grizz were trying to ship Conley back in February before the deadline. All indications we have say that they're ready to move on from him, and that was before they had any real reason to think they'd have the #2 pick and any chance at Ja. It seems to me that their interest in Ja is pretty likely because they actually want Ja, rather than for some 3-D Chess tactics.

I guess if you're just absolutely desperate for Ja and he's the light of your life, then sure, maybe you sacrifice some assets you could be getting back for him. Personally, I'm not as hot on Ja as some people seem to be. I think he's good, and should definitely be a top three pick in this draft (personally I'd have him third), but the way I've seen some people talk about him is... frankly slightly disturbing.

The Knicks do have to go 'all in', but there are different types of all in, as weird as that sounds. In a deal that has them trading with only us, there's a limit to how many young unproven prospects we want: makes no sense to be trying to develop 8 guys at once or something. So they don't have to give everything in order for them to be all in with us, because we only want a certain number of things, and all in is whatever it takes to satisfy those requirements. If you add in a third team, then the Knicks suddenly have to satiate two different teams with their assets which means giving up a wider range of assets than they might like, when the extra team doesn't actually give them anything extra back. Seems like a waste, from the NY perspective.

Edit: I'd also add that while I totally get why you started with the premise of ''how do I get Ja'', I think it's an awful premise to start from. Ja is not going to be the second coming, and the almost rampant praying a lot of people have (not necessarily on this board, but check out twitter... wow) for him to end up in New Orleans is very strange.

I think that plan kinda wipes away alot of advantages we have at the moment for Ja. I mean i get it but I think that short term play is kinda put us where we got to. The long play i think is better by spreading out the opportunities you have with multiple picks and players who each can become a diamond in the rough.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

I like Hunter a lot, but I don't see how the Knicks can get another top 10 pick unless we do a 3 team trade and that include AD and Jrue Holiday.

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I agree with you

G

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Draft Day goes something like this...

Pelicans take Zion
Grizzlies take Ja
Knicks take RJ
Lakers take Garland
Cavs take Culver
Suns take White
Bulls take Reddish

Pels get Garland, Reddish, Otto, Kuzma, 2020 Lakers and 2022 Lakers
Bulls get Ingram, Ball, Moore and Solo
Lakers get Anthony Davis

We roll into free agency with...

Garland/Frank
Jrue/Reddish
Otto/Kenrich
Zion/Kuzma
Wood/Okafor/Diallo

Otto gives you a plug and play wing, but also his big contract expires long before we have to pay 2nd contracts on our 3 rookies, which means we can have flexibility to pivot once we have a better idea of how to maximize Zion/Garland and what Reddish becomes as an NBA player.

Garland, because of his outside shooting off the dribble, is the ideal PG to pair with Jrue and Zion. Reddish is a flyer on a guy who could be an All Star at a position that isn’t very deep. Or he could be a bust. But IMO, he’s worth the gamble. If he’s your 3rd first round pick, and the other two are Zion and Garland, he’s not going to get Griff fired.

(This concludes my TED talk)

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I like this. I’d adjust a little bit. I’d trade number 7, laker 2020 first, and Kuzma to wizards for Beal (could throw some seconds if needed). We should have the cap space to eat all of Beals contract if Hill and Moore are move out. At 4 I take Culver. This is my 2019-2020 line up
Jrue/Frank/Elfrid
Beal/Culver
Otto/Kenrich
Zion
Wood/Okafor

Grab a wing and PF/C with 2 second rounders.

I wonder if Randle will actually opt out. Half the time he's talked about as a great big and the other half he's a trash player. I wonder if he actually wants to enter free agency this year or if he wants one more and enter next when there will be far fewer high end players.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I wonder if Randle will actually opt out. Half the time he's talked about as a great big and the other half he's a trash player. I wonder if he actually wants to enter free agency this year or if he wants one more and enter next when there will be far fewer high end players.

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I'm about 90% sure he opts out. He's being paid so very, very little here that even if he wants to stay he's more likely to opt out and accept a contract larger than the option to stay here. That said, I think he's gone.

Said it a bunch and my tune has not changed: elite interior offensive scorer, mediocre rebounder, mediocre-to-poor passer, absolute hot trash garbage fire defense.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I wonder if Randle will actually opt out. Half the time he's talked about as a great big and the other half he's a trash player. I wonder if he actually wants to enter free agency this year or if he wants one more and enter next when there will be far fewer high end players.

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yeah I just had a quick look through 2019 free agents list on hoopshype and as I scrolled it felt like every big man I could think of was showing up, but as we seem to have learnt these NBA players live in their own inflated bubbles of ego so I could see him very much opting out. Dallas seems to be the hometown option, with comments here and there he's very keen to play there. At the same time he has done the right thing here too, and kept his outward officially reported comments positive and engaged for playing on with the Pels. The apparent question marks on coaching staffs thoughts on him and his intelligence do make you wonder though whether he is really the type of character guy they are looking for in a long term build.

When do you think the trade will go down ? Supposedly they met with AD by now and know if they sold him their pitch, albeit unlikely. Is it done before the draft on June 20 , during the draft, or after July 1st when Boston can officially be involved ? We aren't trading with any of the remaining playoff teams it sounds like so I don't think there are any hold backs outside of Okafor who can be traded after May 26 from one website I hit.

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Originally Posted by Rampart

When do you think the trade will go down ? Supposedly they met with AD by now and know if they sold him their pitch, albeit unlikely. Is it done before the draft on June 20 , during the draft, or after July 1st when Boston can officially be involved ? We aren't trading with any of the remaining playoff teams it sounds like so I don't think there are any hold backs outside of Okafor who can be traded after May 26 from one website I hit.

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Any trade is likely to be agreed upon around draft day. Boston can agree to a trade then, they just can't execute it until the official start of Free Agency, which is now mid afternoon on June 30th. I have very little doubt that by the draft, the franchise will know exactly what it's doing. It makes sense, even if they're taking the Knicks trade or the Lakers trade, to wait until the draft because if allows that team to make the pick for the Pels, then trade the player rather than the pick which allows them to include the 2020 FRP in the deal, which they can't do before the draft because trading consecutiveFRPs is a no no.

So it looks like it boils down to either the Knicks, Lakers, & Celtics. Each trade has it pros and cons but I have to say I'm glad that we will be getting a young dynamic wing in the trade (Barrett, Ingram, Tatum). Feels like its been years since the team had one.

If we assume AD is to be traded, is a trade more likely to be agreed to before the draft, during the draft, or after July 1st?

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

If we assume AD is to be traded, is a trade more likely to be agreed to before the draft, during the draft, or after July 1st?

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I assume it will be agreed upon during the draft. I don't see the team leaving it as late as July 1st to have their ducks in a row.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

If we assume AD is to be traded, is a trade more likely to be agreed to before the draft, during the draft, or after July 1st?

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Any trade involving AD and draft picks in this draft would be agreed upon before or during the draft.

It wouldn't make sense for us to trade for draft picks AFTER they are taken and we can't go tell every team we are involved in talks with who to draft incase we trade with them. If AD isn't traded by the draft then we can assume either he is going to start the season on the team or another team with a player heavy deal is going to be agreed upon.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

If we assume AD is to be traded, is a trade more likely to be agreed to before the draft, during the draft, or after July 1st?

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Most likely a deal will be in place before the draft and announced on draft night. That way we can take the player and get a an additional 2020 1st round pick.

If AD is going to be traded, there are really only two realistic places for him to land in my humble opinion. He shouldn't be traded to the Lakers, Clippers or any other Western Conference team, because you don't want the Pelicans competing with that team for a playoff spot during his tenure there. Obvious. The Knicks and Celtics are the only teams I am aware of with the capital to land AD and the desire to acquire him. So the choice, if those are the two best bidders from the East, is between the team with the best picks (Knicks) and the team with the best players (Celtics). I am fine with them taking either deal, but assuming Griffin lands a haul from either scenario, I lean towards the Knicks trade. The Pelicans could presumably add at least Barrett, Robinson, player trade pieces and several more FRPs including both 2021 picks and the Knicks' 2023. I just think that kind of value provides the team with a lot of flexibility over the next couple of years while still allowing a competitive team to be built around Jrue, Zion and Barrett. Between the players the Pelicans would control that would be available in trades, the picks they would own and the cap room that could be created, New Orleans could make moves on targeted RFAs like Brogdon or even sign a couple of decent second tier free agents.

I think you have deals in place with NY, Lakers, and Boston. At the draft you pull the trigger. If Ja doesn’t go to Memphis I’d pull the string on NY even though it’s not my favorite but you get to build around Ja and Zion for the next 8 years. Other than that whichever deal between the other 2 Griff likes best is who I’d go with. I personally like Boston but that’s because I want Tatum. If we don’t come out of this draft without a wing, it’ll be a complete failure.

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Originally Posted by Zombiewoof

If AD is going to be traded, there are really only two realistic places for him to land in my humble opinion. He shouldn't be traded to the Lakers, Clippers or any other Western Conference team, because you don't want the Pelicans competing with that team for a playoff spot during his tenure there. Obvious. The Knicks and Celtics are the only teams I am aware of with the capital to land AD and the desire to acquire him. So the choice, if those are the two best bidders from the East, is between the team with the best picks (Knicks) and the team with the best players (Celtics). I am fine with them taking either deal, but assuming Griffin lands a haul from either scenario, I lean towards the Knicks trade. The Pelicans could presumably add at least Barrett, Robinson, player trade pieces and several more FRPs including both 2021 picks and the Knicks' 2023. I just think that kind of value provides the team with a lot of flexibility over the next couple of years while still allowing a competitive team to be built around Jrue, Zion and Barrett. Between the players the Pelicans would control that would be available in trades, the picks they would own and the cap room that could be created, New Orleans could make moves on targeted RFAs like Brogdon or even sign a couple of decent second tier free agents.

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There are multiple realistic destinations for AD.
Boston, Denver, Brooklyn, Knicks, Clippers, Lakers, Toronto, Philly. There are certainly several more dark horses.
As long as you don't look at a trade as BINARY, the Pels trade w/ just about anybody.

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Originally Posted by Tinman

There are multiple realistic destinations for AD.
Boston, Denver, Brooklyn, Knicks, Clippers, Lakers, Toronto, Philly. There are certainly several more dark horses.
As long as you don't look at a trade as BINARY, the Pels trade w/ just about anybody.

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Certainly there are other teams that could enter the AD trade picture. That's why I said that the Knicks and Celtics were the only teams I was aware of that had expressed interest and had the pieces to trade and I limited it to teams from the East, because I wouldn't want them to trade him to a Western Conference team. I could see Brooklyn or Philly getting involved and they have some attractive pieces, but I haven't heard of interest yet.

I also really want Barrett, so there's that. :D

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Originally Posted by Zombiewoof

Certainly there are other teams that could enter the AD trade picture. That's why I said that the Knicks and Celtics were the only teams I was aware of that had expressed interest and had the pieces to trade and I limited it to teams from the East, because I wouldn't want them to trade him to a Western Conference team. I could see Brooklyn or Philly getting involved and they have some attractive pieces, but I haven't heard of interest yet.

I also really want Barrett, so there's that. :D

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Well, frankly I think that the so-called (teams that have expressed intersest) is 90% media driven from the 10% of anonymous (more than likely mid-level employees of said teams).
No POBO, EVP , GM or any "person in the know" is going to show their hand. If anything, the will put out misinformation. So, in my eyes, the Pels have 29 teams to deal with.

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Originally Posted by Tinman

Well, frankly I think that the so-called (teams that have expressed intersest) is 90% media driven from the 10% of anonymous (more than likely mid-level employees of said teams).
No POBO, EVP , GM or any "person in the know" is going to show their hand. If anything, the will put out misinformation. So, in my eyes, the Pels have 29 teams to deal with.

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Fine by me. The more teams expressing interest to Griffin (rather than media speculation), the better.

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Originally Posted by Tinman

Well, frankly I think that the so-called (teams that have expressed intersest) is 90% media driven from the 10% of anonymous (more than likely mid-level employees of said teams).
No POBO, EVP , GM or any "person in the know" is going to show their hand. If anything, the will put out misinformation. So, in my eyes, the Pels have 29 teams to deal with.

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The Phoenix Suns could make an offer that would be pretty hard to top and set the Pelicans up to have a pretty balanced and dominant team. They also have Devin Booker entering a stretch next year where unless they start to improve Booker could very realistically start making trade demands of his own in a couple of years. Trading for AD would be a risk, but if Phoenix can add a PG in free agency, a team with Booker/AD could be what turns that dumpster fire of a franchise around.

If Phoenix offers Pick #6, Ayton, Warren, and any salary filler necessary... how do Lakers, Nets, Celtics, Raptors, or Knicks beat that?

Grab Coby White (or Garland) at 6, and that's a hellofa team!

A White/Jrue/Warren/Zion/Ayton starting lineup fits from an on court fit, competitive timeline, and salary cap management point of view. Putting Zion with Ayton - especially if both (or either) develops a reliable outside shot - would be pretty nasty with Coby White or Jrue running PnR and Warren and the other guard spotting up for 3 pointers. The Pelicans staff already has experience making Boogie/AD work for a stretch before Boogie got hurt.

Would Suns do it?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...is/1197592001/

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Griffin could ask for Warren, Jackson, the No. 6 pick — and Ayton — for Davis.

The Suns could throw in Tyler Johnson to help match the salaries as Davis is due $27 million next season and $28.7 million in 2020-21 with a player option in 2020, but Ayton would make it worth it for New Orleans.

With Ayton, Zion Williamson and whomever they draft with that sixth pick, New Orleans would have a powerful foundation to build upon for the next 10 years.

What would Phoenix get out of the deal?

An instant top-five tandem of Davis and Devin Booker. Those two could make everyone else better and turn the Suns into an instant playoff contender.

It’s a one-year shot with Davis, but making a move like would show free agents Phoenix is ready to win right now.

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Ideal Suns trade...

@PelicansNBA get:
Tyler Johnson
T.J. Warren
Deandre Ayton
2019 - R1 from PHX

@Suns get:
Solomon Hill
Anthony Davis

http://tradenba.com/trades/HyUQFkDaE

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

If Phoenix offers Pick #6, Ayton, Warren, and any salary filler necessary... how do Lakers, Nets, Celtics, Raptors, or Knicks beat that?

Grab Coby White (or Garland) at 6, and that's a hellofa team!

A White/Jrue/Warren/Zion/Ayton starting lineup fits from an on court fit, competitive timeline, and salary cap management point of view. Putting Zion with Ayton - especially if both (or either) develops a reliable outside shot - would be pretty nasty with Coby White or Jrue running PnR and Warren and the other guard spotting up for 3 pointers. The Pelicans staff already has experience making Boogie/AD work for a stretch before Boogie got hurt.

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I'm actually not a big fan of this trade. The #6 pick isn't great value: I think most people are agreed that this draft drops out after Zion, and then drops off again after Morant and Barrett. I personally disagree, because I'm very high on Culver, but at #6 the odds are that all four of those names are gone (especially Zion, cause we'd be taking him #1, obviously). After that, there's not exactly a gold mine, especially for guards. I am not high on Garland at all. I think he is what people feared Trae Young would be at an NBA level, and I don't have him going top ten in my draft. I'm a bit higher on White, but he still does nothing to really stun me, and doesn't impress me that much as a prospect.

I'm also not that high on Ayton. He's obviously still young, but a lot of his flaws are things that are very difficult to teach. He has very little nose for the ball, very little in the way of defensive instinct, and isn't very good at playing in improvised scenarios. He has a few moves, and he's a good rebounder, but aside from the natural qualities of his body he's not a very good defender, which is something you want from a big man who can't shoot from distance. Again, obviously he could learn, but given that I'm not that high on their picks there has to be something to entice me, and Ayton isn't that guy imo.

I do like Warren.

I think the Lakers would struggle to beat that, because I don't like any of their young guys either, and I definitely like Ayton more than I like Ingram or Kuzma. But as for how the Knicks beat that? Same deal they've had available the entire time. #3, Robinson, Trier, their 2020 FRP, 2x Dallas picks.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'm actually not a big fan of this trade. The #6 pick isn't great value: I think most people are agreed that this draft drops out after Zion, and then drops off again after Morant and Barrett. I personally disagree, because I'm very high on Culver, but at #6 the odds are that all four of those names are gone (especially Zion, cause we'd be taking him #1, obviously). After that, there's not exactly a gold mine, especially for guards. I am not high on Garland at all. I think he is what people feared Trae Young would be at an NBA level, and I don't have him going top ten in my draft. I'm a bit higher on White, but he still does nothing to really stun me, and doesn't impress me that much as a prospect.

I'm also not that high on Ayton. He's obviously still young, but a lot of his flaws are things that are very difficult to teach. He has very little nose for the ball, very little in the way of defensive instinct, and isn't very good at playing in improvised scenarios. He has a few moves, and he's a good rebounder, but aside from the natural qualities of his body he's not a very good defender, which is something you want from a big man who can't shoot from distance. Again, obviously he could learn, but given that I'm not that high on their picks there has to be something to entice me, and Ayton isn't that guy imo.

I do like Warren.

I think the Lakers would struggle to beat that, because I don't like any of their young guys either, and I definitely like Ayton more than I like Ingram or Kuzma. But as for how the Knicks beat that? Same deal they've had available the entire time. #3, Robinson, Trier, their 2020 FRP, 2x Dallas picks.

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Yeah, in this draft, unless the Pels are keen on 1 specific player (after Zion), 6 or 13 is irrelevant . The players are in the same bushel, & it becomes a purely positional pick.
So, immediately, I say Boston's offer can be substantially better. I'll take Tatum,Brown, Memphis pk, Sac pk & LaClip pick package over Phx without hesitation. I do like Warren though.

I’d also send him east if the deals are close. As for ayton, I’d much rather buy low on bomba than ayton and the suns would have to give up Bridges and more firsts because that first is bad.

Maybe ayton, Bridges, Warren, okobo, 3 first and their second this year. Plus they at least have to take Hill. I’m still not sure I like it.

Lakers don't even have the salary on the books to make an AD trade, unless they draft their pick. I think the L.A. Are lowest on totum poll, & that includes teams that haven't even been mentioned yet.

Saw this trade on:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/lonzowi...e-package/amp/

Chicago gets: Lonzo Ball

Pelicans get: Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Moritz Wagner, Kris Dunn, the No. 4 pick (via LAL), the No. 7 pick (via CHI) and two future first-round picks.

Lakers get: Anthony Davis

Now if we could get all those picks I would love that deal. I would hope Garland would fall to 7 though and take Hunter or Culver at 4 since I think those two are better than Garland at 4. I really like it cause of the two future 1st round picks, with hopefully at least one coming from Chicago. I liked Dunn a ton coming into the league, but he hasn’t been as good as I thought. Think he could be a decent backup if we could land Garland with that 7th pick. Maybe we would be forced to take Garland at 4 and hope Culver makes it to 7, but Coby White could be the backup plan at 7. Even though I like Ball, this is probably one of the better Laker deals if we could get 4 first round picks.

C: Okafor, Wagner
PF: Zion, Kuzma
SF: Ingram, Hunter
SG: Jrue, Moore
PG: Garland, Dunn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaPelFromHell

Saw this trade on:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/lonzowi...e-package/amp/

Chicago gets: Lonzo Ball

Pelicans get: Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Moritz Wagner, Kris Dunn, the No. 4 pick (via LAL), the No. 7 pick (via CHI) and two future first-round picks.

Lakers get: Anthony Davis

Now if we could get all those picks I would love that deal. I would hope Garland would fall to 7 though and take Hunter or Culver at 4 since I think those two are better than Garland at 4. I really like it cause of the two future 1st round picks, with hopefully at least one coming from Chicago. I liked Dunn a ton coming into the league, but he hasn’t been as good as I thought. Think he could be a decent backup if we could land Garland with that 7th pick. Maybe we would be forced to take Garland at 4 and hope Culver makes it to 7, but Coby White could be the backup plan at 7. Even though I like Ball, this is probably one of the better Laker deals if we could get 4 first round picks.

C: Okafor, Wagner
PF: Zion, Kuzma
SF: Ingram, Hunter
SG: Jrue, Moore
PG: Garland, Dunn

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Send Kuzma & #4 to Chi. For Lavine.
Lavine, Jrue, Ingram, Zion--- Okafor/Wagner.

Is it just me who thinks this is actually a relatively poor year for this to happen in?

I can't think of a better year, but as much as I like some of the offers that could be made for AD, you'd think that trading a top three talent in his prime would net more, larger offers, no?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaPelFromHell

Saw this trade on:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/lonzowi...e-package/amp/

Chicago gets: Lonzo Ball

Pelicans get: Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Moritz Wagner, Kris Dunn, the No. 4 pick (via LAL), the No. 7 pick (via CHI) and two future first-round picks.

Lakers get: Anthony Davis

Now if we could get all those picks I would love that deal. I would hope Garland would fall to 7 though and take Hunter or Culver at 4 since I think those two are better than Garland at 4. I really like it cause of the two future 1st round picks, with hopefully at least one coming from Chicago. I liked Dunn a ton coming into the league, but he hasn’t been as good as I thought. Think he could be a decent backup if we could land Garland with that 7th pick. Maybe we would be forced to take Garland at 4 and hope Culver makes it to 7, but Coby White could be the backup plan at 7. Even though I like Ball, this is probably one of the better Laker deals if we could get 4 first round picks.

C: Okafor, Wagner
PF: Zion, Kuzma
SF: Ingram, Hunter
SG: Jrue, Moore
PG: Garland, Dunn

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Unless the Pelicans think Ingram is going to be a star, that's a lot of quantity but not much high end quality. Those Laker players couldn't even win playing with LeBron. Maybe the 4th or 7th pick would perform far beyond projections... or maybe not. This draft after the first few picks becomes unclear and risky.

It's a matter of who they like, but it seems like other teams can come up with better deals and more star potential.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gant-

Unless the Pelicans think Ingram is going to be a star, that's a lot of quantity but not much high end quality. Those Laker players couldn't even win playing with LeBron. Maybe the 4th or 7th pick would perform far beyond projections... or maybe not. This draft after the first few picks becomes unclear and risky.

It's a matter of who they like, but it seems like other teams can come up with better deals and more star potential.

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I think this is part of the issue that people, including me, have with the Lakers trade.

If you trade AD for Ingram, Ball, and Kuzma, then essentially what you're doing is asking us to run the 2017-18 Lakers team, with Jrue bolted on. You say that Zion is there, sure, but while I believe that he will be much better than Randle, there is a fairness in comparing them in at least some basic ways. So you'd be running the 2017-18 Lakers team, with Randle being about 40% better at everything, plus Jrue. Is that a successful team in year one? No. Well, then you've got to pay Ingram, or he walks. Not a good spot to be in.

Also, Garland is not going to be that good, and Dunn is already very bad. No thanks to having them be our 1 guards.

Without knowing who Griffin values highly, it’s tough for me to see a potential deal that beats an opportunity to take either Barrett or Morant at #3. For me, it would have to be a trade that brings a bona fide all star player and picks. I have trouble seeing that happening.

From where I'm standing I have no idea how any executive can trade much in value for Ingram. First and foremost the blood clot situation no matter how well researched would be a PR nightmare if it were to end his career. Then you have the issue with him underperforming expectations for 3 seasons. While person6I like his game and think a fresh start could put him on a stars track. If it was me I just couldn't risk it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'm actually not a big fan of this trade. The #6 pick isn't great value: I think most people are agreed that this draft drops out after Zion, and then drops off again after Morant and Barrett. I personally disagree, because I'm very high on Culver, but at #6 the odds are that all four of those names are gone (especially Zion, cause we'd be taking him #1, obviously). After that, there's not exactly a gold mine, especially for guards. I am not high on Garland at all. I think he is what people feared Trae Young would be at an NBA level, and I don't have him going top ten in my draft. I'm a bit higher on White, but he still does nothing to really stun me, and doesn't impress me that much as a prospect.

I'm also not that high on Ayton. He's obviously still young, but a lot of his flaws are things that are very difficult to teach. He has very little nose for the ball, very little in the way of defensive instinct, and isn't very good at playing in improvised scenarios. He has a few moves, and he's a good rebounder, but aside from the natural qualities of his body he's not a very good defender, which is something you want from a big man who can't shoot from distance. Again, obviously he could learn, but given that I'm not that high on their picks there has to be something to entice me, and Ayton isn't that guy imo.

I do like Warren.

I think the Lakers would struggle to beat that, because I don't like any of their young guys either, and I definitely like Ayton more than I like Ingram or Kuzma. But as for how the Knicks beat that? Same deal they've had available the entire time. #3, Robinson, Trier, their 2020 FRP, 2x Dallas picks.

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I'd be more interested in maybe trading Holiday to the Suns for something similar, but as far as Davis they'd have to start with Ayton and Booker. I doubt they want to do that.

I would advocate against trading for multiple 2019 first round picks, unless with a possibility to move up. It's already hard to develop properly two rookies at the same time, 3 or more seems an impossible task.

I think having 2 first round picks every year for the next two years would be more valuable to have 3 first round picks in 2019. Not only because 2019 is supposed to be weaker but because I'm pretty sure you have higher chance to succeed and it's more sustainable if you have more diffuse influx of young talent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blattman

I think having 2 first round picks every year for the next two years would be more valuable to have 3 first round picks in 2019.

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Agreed on that. That's why if Boston really want AD, they need to cough up that 2021 Memphis pick: getting all three of their mediocre picks this year isn't that huge of a deal. That's an advantage NY has, because they can supply a pick for basically every year until 2024.

The only picks on the table that carry value from viable trade partners:

LAL — #4 (a team with LeBron and AD will net picks in 20s)
NY — #3 (Dallas found a stud in Doncic so those will at best be late lottery. A NY team with KD and AD will be drafting in 20s). What is interesting here is if KD doesn’t go to NY. By draft time, we won’t know. But we may not need to know since both will select Barrett or Morant
Bos — future Grizzlies and Kings pick has some value. So does future BOS picks if AD is rental
LAC — future Heat pick. So does future LAC picks if AD is rental

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Primetime

The only picks on the table that carry value from viable trade partners:

LAL — #4 (a team with LeBron and AD will net picks in 20s)
NY — #3 (Dallas found a stud in Doncic so those will at best be late lottery. A NY team with KD and AD will be drafting in 20s). What is interesting here is if KD doesn’t go to NY. By draft time, we won’t know. But we may not need to know since both will select Barrett or Morant
Bos — future Grizzlies and Kings pick has some value. So does future BOS picks if AD is rental
LAC — future Heat pick. So does future LAC picks if AD is rental

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Don't bet too highly on that Dallas team bieng good. And remember, even late lottery with the new rules can work out pretty well. Lakers jumped up to 4. We jumped up. It happens.

Also remember that the point of these long term picks is not to give us the #1 pick every year. I mean, it would be cool if they did, but nobody thinks that's going to happen. THe point is to have continual bites at the cherry when it comes to adding solid youth. That can be promising guys who fall in the draft, or it can be projects to be developed over time, or it can be ready made guys who have low ceilings. Those are always available somewhere between 10 and 20, so getting the #18 or #13 pick isn't a problem when you already have stars, which the AD trade + Zion should be netting us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blattman

I would advocate against trading for multiple 2019 first round picks, unless with a possibility to move up. It's already hard to develop properly two rookies at the same time, 3 or more seems an impossible task.

I think having 2 first round picks every year for the next two years would be more valuable to have 3 first round picks in 2019. Not only because 2019 is supposed to be weaker but because I'm pretty sure you have higher chance to succeed and it's more sustainable if you have more diffuse influx of young talent.

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I don't think that should be a concern. Getting top end talent should matter most. The key is to surround them with coaches and players that's more focused on developing the young guys. Most teams don't commit to the full rebuild.