Measurements pg. 6

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05-17-2013, 02:36 PM
Vinny6420

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

2nd round picks are not hard to come by. Maybe with Shinn as our owner, but 2nds can be bought for relatively cheap. I wouldn't mind Allen Crabbe in the 2nd.

If we trade down i see it happening
05-17-2013, 02:44 PM
SportsPillowTlk

I think Burke can have the highest impact between the three, but Oladipo is more of a sure thing. Burke will not be the greatest defender.
05-17-2013, 02:56 PM
DefensiveMind

Quote:

Originally Posted by SportsPillowTlk

I think Burke can have the highest impact between the three, but Oladipo is more of a sure thing. Burke will not be the greatest defender.

I like the defensive potential of Oladipo... I like how he fits with Davis. I like that teams may find themselves settling for long low percentage jumpers because its easier than trying to drive on a good defender only to deal with a strong rim protector like Davis will be.
05-17-2013, 02:58 PM
Eman5805

Quote:

Originally Posted by DefensiveMind

We need dynamic athletes on this team. Bottom line. You want to beat Miami? You want to challenge OKC and SA? You need athletes. We need to length and we need speed. Lots of it. En Masse. For that reason, I am not interested in Trey Burke. Not enough waterbug to his game for my taste at that size.

Fair enough. However, to challenge, you also want someone that can challenge Westbrook, Parker, and Chalmers/Cole. That could be Bledsoe, and I legitimately think we are going to acquire him. And I'm in favor of it.

But don't think Burke isn't athletic enough to succeed or be worthy of a pick. He might surprise people.
05-17-2013, 02:59 PM
Purple Haze

[QUOTE=Nola7;1080284]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kclaboy504

Better question is how many other pgs are close or comparable to him? I would not draft any pg with the 5th overall pick in this draft.

That's the problem, you're (Nola7 not you) stuck on this, "who's worth a 5th pick" mantra and I don't believe you draft that way. You pick the BPA and at 5 I think that Burke is easily that.
05-17-2013, 03:10 PM
DefensiveMind

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eman5805

Fair enough. However, to challenge, you also want someone that can challenge Westbrook, Parker, and Chalmers/Cole. That could be Bledsoe, and I legitimately think we are going to acquire him. And I'm in favor of it.

But don't think Burke isn't athletic enough to succeed or be worthy of a pick. He might surprise people.

I understand what you are saying...but..I think challenging them physically is more detrimental to their game than just forcing them to play defense. Bledsoe is capable and even though I am not the biggest fan of his ball skills (shooting, passing, etc) hes enough of an athlete that I am cool with him regardless. Burke, I am not convinced he has the ability to even approach CPs ball skills and I have enough doubt about his ceiling as an athlete that I am willing to pass... The one caveat... if he is truly BPA at wherever we pick.
05-17-2013, 03:22 PM
da ThRONe

I don't get the need for "dymamic" athletes at the point. We need dynamic basketball players meaning decision maker, leader, shooter, passer, etc. Nash was never a dynamic athlete, Paul isn't as far as Wall, Rose, Westbrook is concerned and the PG that many feel will be the next great PG in Irving isn't a dynamic athlete. Is it nice to have a 40+" vert or a low 3sec 3/4 sprint or low 10sec agility drills yes. Is it necessary to be elite nope.

Honestly as "dynamic" as Westbrook is it wouldn't surprise me if in 4-5 years Burke would be the concensus better player.
05-17-2013, 03:28 PM
Eman5805

I mean. With Burke you have a guy that Westbrook can't sag off of. If he goes under a screen, Burke can and will rise up and drain the 3 on him.

That's the kind of dynamic we need. You don't have to be a John Wall or Westbrook level athlete to be just what the doctor ordered.
05-17-2013, 03:28 PM
Snarly

Ironic... Coming from the guy that loved Andre Drummond over Davis last year. :hihi:
05-17-2013, 03:40 PM
hornetstime247

Paul, Curry, Williams, Parker top 7 pgs, smarts and bball is what makes great PGs not over the top athletic abiliy.
05-17-2013, 03:41 PM
da ThRONe

What's important at the point guard position and what's important as a PF/C are two different things.

The guy who dominates the ball and who's job it is to get others involved has to be a dynamic play maker. Wings and front court players are more about physical gifts and skill.
05-17-2013, 03:47 PM
Snarly

Quote:

Originally Posted by da ThRONe

What's important at the point guard position and what's important as a PF/C are two different things.

The guy who dominates the ball and who's job it is to get others involved has to be a dynamic play maker. Wings and front court players are more about physical gifts and skill.

Is it really? Great basketball players almost always beats dynamic athletes. Look at the championship teams over the years. They're all usually great basketball players first and foremost.
05-17-2013, 03:59 PM
da ThRONe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

Is it really? Great basketball players almost always beats dynamic athletes. Look at the championship teams over the years. They're all usually great basketball players first and foremost.

So if Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, Wade, Jordan, Pippen are above average athletes they win titles?

Then you have your Duncan's, Hakeem's, and Dirk's who are insanely skilled.
05-17-2013, 04:00 PM
Tomdda

Quote:

Originally Posted by hornetstime247

Trey burke far and away the best player in this draft...

Right now yes, you could make a case for that. In 3 or 4 years? Well, lets just say I wouldn't bet my retirement on it one way or the other.
05-17-2013, 04:04 PM
Snarly

Quote:

Originally Posted by da ThRONe

So if Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, Wade, Jordan, Pippen are above average athletes they win titles?

Then you have your Duncan's, Hakeem's, and Dirk's who are insanely skilled.

All were Basketball players first and foremost. All were skilled coming into the league. My point still stands.
05-17-2013, 04:05 PM
da ThRONe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomdda

Right now yes, you could make a case for that. In 3 or 4 years? Well, lets just say I wouldn't bet my retirement on it one way or the other.

I think Trey has a healthy upside. His shot selection can get better, along with his craftiness, and defensives consistency.
05-17-2013, 04:06 PM
DefensiveMind

To each there own, I suppose.

I look at Trey Burke and I don't see a guy that I want at my point of attack. Not in this league. I don't see the sublime nature of his game that will allow me to compare him to a Paul, Nash, Curry or Isaiah Thomas. Little guys have to be sublime. Athletes don't all have to be.. When I look at this Association I see athletes. Rondo's length, Williams' strength, Parker's quickness, Westbrook and Roses' everything. Thats quantifiable..and they have ball skills to boot. But that's not even my point...

The point with little guys is this: Defense and match-ups are everything in this league. As good as Paul, Curry, and Nash are... they limit your defensive flexibility. You have to fine tune your roster to their particular needs (we know this firsthand), you have to hide them in certain matchups, and history has shown us..unless you have Isaiah Thomas its damn near impossible to build a championship caliber team around them. Its NO mystery why Rondo, Westbrook, and Rose have been closer to a title than Paul, Nash, and Curry.

In order for your team to win in this league its not enough to be more talented. Size matters. You have to be as talented and as big at positions 1-5 as possible. Or at least have some quantifiable physical advantage whether that is absolute size and strength or speed. I am not convinced that Eric Gordon is someone will be able to move in the next 2 years therefore, I think drafting Trey Burke is not the best option.
05-17-2013, 04:09 PM
Snarly

Quote:

Originally Posted by DefensiveMind

To each there own, I suppose.

I look at Trey Burke and I don't see a guy that I want at my point of attack. Not in this league. I don't see the sublime nature of his game that will allow me to compare him to a Paul, Nash, Curry or Isaiah Thomas. Little guys have to be sublime. Athletes don't all have to be.. When I look at this Association I see athletes. Rondo's length, Williams' strength, Parker's quickness, Westbrook and Roses' everything. Thats quantifiable..and they have ball skills to boot. But that's not even my point...

The point with little guys is this: Defense and match-ups are everything in this league. As good as Paul, Curry, and Nash are... they limit your defensive flexibility. You have to fine tune your roster to their particular needs (we know this firsthand), you have to hide them in certain matchups, and history has shown us..unless you have Isaiah Thomas its damn near impossible to build a championship caliber team around them. Its NO mystery why Rondo, Westbrook, and Rose have been closer to a title than Paul, Nash, and Curry.

In order for your team to win in this league its not enough to be more talented. Size matters. You have to be as talented and as big at positions 1-5 as possible. Or at least have some quantifiable physical advantage whether that is absolute size and strength or speed. I am not convinced that Eric Gordon is someone will be able to move in the next 2 years therefore, I think drafting Trey Burke is not the best option.

Size matters in your front court. Not so much in the backcourt as long as they are capable of defending screens and stay in front of their man long enough for the help to arrive. The important piece is the defensive anchor. Without one, you can't contend. Davis is our answer to that.
05-17-2013, 04:15 PM
DefensiveMind

Quote:

Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I think Trey has a healthy upside. His shot selection can get better, along with his craftiness, and defensives consistency.

The fact you are hoping that his "craftiness" gets better says a lot. You don't usually start talking about a players "craftiness" until they've seen a deterioration of their physical ability.. think MJ and Kobe in their mid 30s. Or Nash as a Sun. Or what D Wade is about to experience. If I am talking about a lottery picks craftiness and his name isnt Magic. I'll pass.
05-17-2013, 04:18 PM
DefensiveMind

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

Size matters in your front court. Not so much in the backcourt as long as they are capable of defending screens and stay in front of their man long enough for the help to arrive. The important piece is the defensive anchor. Without one, you can't contend. Davis is our answer to that.

Therefore it stands to reason, the less help we HAVE to give at our point of attack (PG) the stronger our D will be. Helping is not a necessity. It helps if you can help.. its better if you dont have to.
05-17-2013, 04:19 PM
Snarly

Quote:

Originally Posted by DefensiveMind

Therefore it stands to reason, the less help we HAVE to give at our point of attack (PG) the stronger our D will be. Helping is not a necessity. It helps if you can help.. its better if you dont have to.

That literally hore****. Every contending team plays help defense. No team have the luxury of having 5 all-first team defensive starting 5. Not during the Pistons run nor the Celtics run.
05-17-2013, 04:26 PM
Official

One thing I can say about Burke is he has that "it." He has that will to win. Anything he lacks in quickness, he can make up in pure heart. Certainly can't say the same about pretty much the rest of the lottery picks.
05-17-2013, 04:40 PM
BeeBall Reasons

Trey burke has rare stop and go ability, he won't be as good as paul. But I'd put his floor as Mike Conley on offense. I really like the kid. I might eat my words but I'd take him if he were on the board in this weak draft. I honestly wouldn't mind him #1
05-17-2013, 04:40 PM
RUFshreve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Official

One thing I can say about Burke is he has that "it." He has that will to win. Anything he lacks in quickness, he can make up in pure heart. Certainly can't say the same about pretty much the rest of the lottery picks.

I think you could say the same about Porter. He carried his team like no other lottery player this year. Of course they didn't do near as well as Michigan, but Burke had Hardway, Robinson and McGary. Who did Porter play with this year again? Oh, that's right.

Don't get me wrong though, Burke is still the player I want most this year. Porter second and McLemore third.
05-17-2013, 05:09 PM
kclaboy504

[QUOTE=Nola7;1080284]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kclaboy504

Better question is how many other pgs are close or comparable to him? I would not draft any pg with the 5th overall pick in this draft.

Ok well what u originally said made it seem that way. Saying he hasn't separated himself from other pgs is bogus. This kid carried his team game after game on his back. Npoy. He will be a top 5 pick for a reason and no other pg will go top 10 IMO. In that sense I believe he has clearly separated himself from the other pgs.

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