Pelicans finalizing trade for Asik

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Originally Posted by David Fisher

Dell Demps turned five first round picks

2012 - NOP
2012 - MIN
2013 - NOP
2014 - NOP
2015 - NOP

Into one franchise cornerstone (Davis), two quality starters (Holiday, Asik), and one quality rotation player (Rivers). So he's batting .800 in the first round. How many NBA GM's kill for that?

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Nice post.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

That or...maybe another move that acquires a mid-round pick and we take Elfrid Payton...

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That would actually be pretty good assuming we trade Rivers...

I would have to say rivers..Yes his athleticism is only going to get better...But that ugly floaters he always takes on the drive means he spends no time working on a jumpshot... He isn't really a PG cause he avgs 2.3 APG...And only 7.7 PPG.... He's a work in progress that I believe another team should deal with...I didn't like the pick when we took it...Don't like it now.... I like Aminu because he's one of your more athletic defenders even though he doesn't score and his jumpshot looks like pure ugly. Ill take 7 and 7 from the 3 spot if his defense is good. Offense can come in later...

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Originally Posted by David Fisher

Dell Demps turned five first round picks

2012 - NOP
2012 - MIN
2013 - NOP
2014 - NOP
2015 - NOP

Into one franchise cornerstone (Davis), two quality starters (Holiday, Asik), and one quality rotation player (Rivers). So he's batting .800 in the first round. How many NBA GM's kill for that?

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Great now we are cap strap and no legitimate basketball mind would say we are a lock for the playoffs even if healthy. We will have to re-sign Asik as early as next year or we gave a pick away for basically cap space. Holiday has to play consistently and avoid any set backs from the injury last year. Plus Rivers or Anderson will likely be cap casualties just to have enough players to field a complete roster.

Yeah not sure how many GM's are killing to be in this situation, but I haven't polled any of them so who knows.

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Originally Posted by Tomdda

Are you really concerned about the Rockets ever winning a championship if they would have Harden and Carmelo playing defense, I mean, supposed to be playing defense? I'm not. They'd be known as the Olè Brothers.

There's two sides of the BB court, as they say.

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Melo shoots too much and doesn't defender. I hope he does go to Houston. They're losing better/cheaper players than they're getting. Howard wasn't much of an upgrade over Asik. And I'd take Parsons over Melo (efficiency).

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Great now we are cap strap and no legitimate basketball mind would say we are a lock for the playoffs even if healthy. We will have to re-sign Asik as early as next year or we gave a pick away for basically cap space. Holiday has to play consistently and avoid any set backs from the injury last year. Plus Rivers or Anderson will likely be cap casualties just to have enough players to field a complete roster.

Yeah not sure how many GM's are killing to be in this situation, but I haven't polled any of them so who knows.

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Let me ask you this - If Gordon is off the team - just magically gone, how would you view our team and assets. Core 4 plus Asik, Rivers, Ajinca, Withey, Pierre plus about 12-14 mil in cap room.

I know he is not magically gone, but I am curious. My point being that if you remove the only trade I hate that Dell made, would he have not built one of the youngest, deepest, most flexible rosters with an opportunity to add even more?

I still think he made one huge mistake. Throw that away and it has been borderline great and would be viewed as such if not for the one huge error.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I guess - but trades rely on two parties. So even if we are trying something, and that is legit, that is more of an unknown than the absolute fact that the salary cap dictates that we can not have the Finishing 5, Rivers, and Asik on the books.

I would think that is more fire, our attempt at a trade more smoke.

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Yeah to be fair, all I know is that we were pursuing this deal. If I had to bet, I think a Rivers deal would probably be more likely as it's a lot simpler. As MM said it's likely going to come down to Ryan and Austin and it is a fact that one of those 6 guys has to be traded.

We'll see what happens, but what MM is saying is definitely more than speculation or guessing, honestly it's the most likely outcome.

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Originally Posted by RekeHavoc

Yeah to be fair, all I know is that we were pursuing this deal. If I had to bet, I think a Rivers deal would probably be more likely as it's a lot simpler. As MM said it's likely going to come down to Ryan and Austin and it is a fact that one of those 6 guys has to be traded.

We'll see what happens, but what MM is saying is definitely more than speculation or guessing, honestly it's the most likely outcome.

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Exactly. You know what Dell might be trying to do, but you dont know inside the other teams' war room. So your info could be dead on and that deal might never materialize. Meanwhile, the numbers are the numbers. No speculation there.

It tracks through logic that we wouldn't make a trade like this if we didn't already have the accompanying moves in place. So I wonder if it's hinging on the draft tonight, same as with Philly. Like if X player is still at X spot, that guy becomes ours for a swap of Austin, Gordon, or whatever we need to move to allow the Asik acquisition to fall through.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

It tracks through logic that we wouldn't make a trade like this if we didn't already have the accompanying moves in place. So I wonder if it's hinging on the draft tonight, same as with Philly. Like if X player is still at X spot, that guy becomes ours for a swap of Austin, Gordon, or whatever we need to move to allow the Asik acquisition to fall through.

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Exactly - there is a fail safe option in place. My dream is that the fail safe is, "Well if we cant move Gordon or get good value for Rivers, we can always buyout and stretch Gordon."

That is my lone dream right now.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Let me ask you this - If Gordon is off the team - just magically gone, how would you view our team and assets. Core 4 plus Asik, Rivers, Ajinca, Withey, Pierre plus about 12-14 mil in cap room.

I know he is not magically gone, but I am curious. My point being that if you remove the only trade I hate that Dell made, would he have not built one of the youngest, deepest, most flexible rosters with an opportunity to add even more?

I still think he made one huge mistake. Throw that away and it has been borderline great and would be viewed as such if not for the one huge error.

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Clearly a lot better than I do with Gordon on the roster.

I still don't know if this is as great of a roster some seem to think it is, but it gives us a chance to let guys gel and build. As of now it has become do or die this season. So while I would say no Gordon takes my level of concern from a A+ to a B- I still wouldn't be sold if the goal is title contender.

If there is a God, please may he find us a suitor for Gordon. We've suffered enough already.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Clearly a lot better than I do with Gordon on the roster.

I still don't know if this is as great of a roster some seem to think it is, but it gives us a chance to let guys gel and build. As of now it has become do or die this season. So while I would say no Gordon takes my level of concern from a A+ to a B- I still wouldn't be sold if the goal is title contender.

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Okay, that is fair I guess. Especially since you dont see AD as a future MVP candidate.

I still see him as one Gordon move away from having built a monster of a team. Use Gordon's salary to either add depth or one more very good piece and that team is unbelieveable IMO. Could have the best backcourt in the league and best 4/5 three man trio. Would have Gordon's money to get a SF. All that is missing for me

MM, give me a percent on who gets traded tonight, ryno, gordon, rivers?

I'd say
50% Ryno
35% Rivers
15% Gordon

Let's cut da_Throne some slack. A playoff lock in the Western Conference means we're in the 3rd to 6th range. We could still make the playoffs this year as a 7th or 8th seed, but by pure definition, that wouldn't be locks. One bad week to end the season and on the outside looking in just like the Timberwolves.

If we move Jrue or Tyreke to clear cap space that's basically one of them for Asik, which is a L. Dell Demps isn't stupid. Phoenix was willing to pay Gordon all that money, maybe they'll take him now. Gerald Green for Eric Gordon? It'll all work out. We just need to stay healthy to see what this team can accomplish.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Clearly a lot better than I do with Gordon on the roster.

I still don't know if this is as great of a roster some seem to think it is, but it gives us a chance to let guys gel and build. As of now it has become do or die this season. So while I would say no Gordon takes my level of concern from a A+ to a B- I still wouldn't be sold if the goal is title contender.

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I'm curious Throne, what would you have done differently?

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Is this suppose to be a response/rebuttal? Are insults your way to combat logic you can't refute?

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It's not an insult, I'm just tried of everything you post on this site being 100% negative. If anyone didn't know you they would think you hated the Pelicans. I'm sure those that know you still question it. No move will ever make you satisfied.

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Originally Posted by rezburna

If we move Jrue or Tyreke to clear cap space that's basically one of them for Asik, which is a L. Dell Demps isn't stupid. Phoenix was willing to pay Gordon all that money, maybe they'll take him now. Gerald Green for Eric Gordon? It'll all work out. We just need to stay healthy to see what this team can accomplish.

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jrue or tyreke will absolutely not be moved, and if one of them is, it won't be for cap space, it will be for a good player or a high pick.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

MM, give me a percent on who gets traded tonight, ryno, gordon, rivers?

I'd say
50% Ryno
35% Rivers
15% Gordon

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MM I NEED ANSWERS! ARGGGH

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

jrue or tyreke will absolutely not be moved, and if one of them is, it won't be for cap space, it will be for a good player or a high pick.

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Andrew Wiggins, come on down! You're the next contestant on the America's Next Top Contender!

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Originally Posted by rezburna

If we move Jrue or Tyreke to clear cap space that's basically one of them for Asik, which is a L. Dell Demps isn't stupid. Phoenix was willing to pay Gordon all that money, maybe they'll take him now. Gerald Green for Eric Gordon? It'll all work out. We just need to stay healthy to see what this team can accomplish.

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There's no way AD, Holiday or Evans are moved right now. You can take that to the bank.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Andrew Wiggins, come on down! You're the next contestant on the America's Next Top Contender!

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Don't tease me

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

MM, give me a percent on who gets traded tonight, ryno, gordon, rivers?

I'd say
50% Ryno
35% Rivers
15% Gordon

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I'd go Rivers 60%, Ryan 30%, Gordon 10% even though I think there would need to be other moves in order to move Gordon.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

There's no way AD, Holiday or Evans are moved right now. You can take that to the bank.

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agreed, AD is untouchable, we gave up too much for jrue, tyreke is the only possible one, but i still give it a 10%

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Originally Posted by RekeHavoc

I'd go Rivers 60%, Ryan 30%, Gordon 10% even though I think there would need to be other moves in order to move Gordon.

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Thanks, does this mean things have went down hill with the trade you heard about?

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Originally Posted by RekeHavoc

I'd go Rivers 60%, Ryan 30%, Gordon 10% even though I think there would need to be other moves in order to move Gordon.

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The thing though Havoc with Ryno is that we are still rumored to be looking to move into the 1st. Rivers will NOT get us that. If the objective is really to get a 1st rounder, while still needing to shed cap space, I think Ryno would have the highest percentage. Just the way I look at it.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

The thing though Havoc with Ryno is that we are still rumored to be looking to move into the 1st. Rivers will NOT give us that. If the objective is really to get a 1st rounder, while still needing to shed cap space, I think Ryno would have the highest percentage. Just the way I look at it.

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exactly, if u want a mid first u need to deal ryno, but rivers could get u a first, but it would be in the 25-30 range. Which id still do if cleanthony falls.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Great now we are cap strap and no legitimate basketball mind would say we are a lock for the playoffs even if healthy. We will have to re-sign Asik as early as next year or we gave a pick away for basically cap space. Holiday has to play consistently and avoid any set backs from the injury last year. Plus Rivers or Anderson will likely be cap casualties just to have enough players to field a complete roster.

Yeah not sure how many GM's are killing to be in this situation, but I haven't polled any of them so who knows.

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Pretty sure no one in our FO is dreading the idea of locking up Asik next summer. Now he gets a year of chem w/ AD and we get his bird rights. Feels like we've done our small-market diligence here. Sure, could've fished for him w/ the other quality FA centers in 2015, but I think this way we'll keep him on a Splitter-like contract, which is fair considering what he brings to the table. And we won't have to get into the bidding wars over Gasol, Drummond, Hibbert, or DeAndre next summer, which is gonna lead to some of those guys getting bloated contracts. If Asik is your 4th or 5th best player at 10mil or less that's pretty ideal IMO.

You're probably right that ultimately no GM's are wanting to trade into Demp's shoes because of the hot seat/injury issues.

Also, aren't all competitive teams cap strapped, and the best ones also have flexibility? Besides Gordon, I feel like all our assets are pretty flexible.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Let's cut da_Throne some slack. A playoff lock in the Western Conference means we're in the 3rd to 6th range. We could still make the playoffs this year as a 7th or 8th seed, but by pure definition, that wouldn't be locks. One bad week to end the season and on the outside looking in just like the Timberwolves.

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Of course it wouldn't shock me if we made the playoffs. Just like we were hit with the injury stick {edited} it could happen to other teams. Some we could have just surpassed or they may regress. We were still decent despite being very injured.

However we are better on paper as of now with what we know about the Asik deal. But we don't know what the bench will look like. We don't know how this team will gel. If player X(if we are still doing that) comes over for player Y(are we still hiding this guy too?). What will happen to the spacing? Clearly Davis is most effective as a cutter and a PNR option than he is a shooter and as an ISO option. Is Gordon still on this team? If so will he be taking possession away from Holiday and Evans? Will Gordon be in the starting lineup? If so will it effect Evans if not will it effect Gordon?

All of this and most of the teams we are competing against will all mostly return as is if not with their own up grades. Denver just got Afflalo for example. I don't see how anybody can say we are a lock to make the playoffs next season.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

exactly, if u want a mid first u need to deal ryno, but rivers could get u a first, but it would be in the 25-30 range. Which id still do if cleanthony falls.

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I just don't think Rivers could get us a 1st. I tell you this though, if Ryno is traded and we get a mid round (14-17) pick, I'm taking Mr. Ryno clone, McDermott.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Let me ask you this - If Gordon is off the team - just magically gone, how would you view our team and assets. Core 4 plus Asik, Rivers, Ajinca, Withey, Pierre plus about 12-14 mil in cap room.

I know he is not magically gone, but I am curious. My point being that if you remove the only trade I hate that Dell made, would he have not built one of the youngest, deepest, most flexible rosters with an opportunity to add even more?

I still think he made one huge mistake. Throw that away and it has been borderline great and would be viewed as such if not for the one huge error.

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+1. Well said.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

I just don't think Rivers could get us a 1st. I tell you this though, if Ryno is traded and we get a mid round (14-17) pick, I'm taking Mr. Ryno clone, McDermott.

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I got McDermott going in the lottery, tremendous scorer, hustle, and is not as bad defensively as advertised.

and i honestly believe you could easily get a 25-30 for rivers, his offensive potential is tremendous and he has already shown to be a good 3 and D. GM's know he's young and was a project.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I got McDermott going in the lottery, tremendous scorer, hustle, and is not as bad defensively as advertised.

and i honestly believe you could easily get a 25-30 for rivers, his offensive potential is tremendous and he has already shown to be a good 3 and D. GM's know he's young and was a project.

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Yeah you never know, people fall, him KJ or Hood and I'd be pretty satisfied.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Yeah you never know, people fall, him KJ or Hood and I'd be pretty satisfied.

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Oh ya i know, i'm in no way guaranteeing him going in the lotto, I'm just saying i personally would take him there, but I'm still hoping we get an early 2nd rounder from someone and get KJ, Fair, or Deandre daniels.

Trading Rivers for a first doesn't clear up cap space if I'm not mistaken. Wouldn't the 1st rd pick get a automatic cap hold?

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Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans

Trading Rivers for a first doesn't clear up cap space if I'm not mistaken. Wouldn't the 1st rd pick get a automatic cap hold?

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it would clear up about 2.5 million

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Originally Posted by Sujaguar00

I'm curious Throne, what would you have done differently?

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Can you be more specific? is there a starting point for reference? Just in general I would have taken my time and build the team via the draft.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Oh ya i know, i'm in no way guaranteeing him going in the lotto, I'm just saying i personally would take him there, but I'm still hoping we get an early 2nd rounder from someone and get KJ, Fair, or Deandre daniels.

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I'm going to be completely honest, the past month I haven't kept up with prospects or anything draft related because I figured there was no way we would do anything. Only since this rumor that we wanted a pick did I start to pay attention. Can you please explain to me why KJ's draft stock fell to the 2nd round? I'm honestly asking, from what I remember right after the season, people were pretty high on him and I thought for sure he was a 1st round grade.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

There's no way AD, Holiday or Evans are moved right now. You can take that to the bank.

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Agreed. Exactly the point I was trying to make.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Thanks, does this mean things have went down hill with the trade you heard about?

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Nope all I heard was Dell was trying to do this. I'm sure there are tons of other possibilities though.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

I'm going to be completely honest, the past month I haven't kept up with prospects or anything draft related because I figured there was no way we would do anything. Only since this rumor that we wanted a pick did I start to pay attention. Can you please explain to me why KJ's draft stock fell to the 2nd round? I'm honestly asking, from what I remember right after the season, people were pretty high on him and I thought for sure he was a 1st round grade.

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6"6 SF with limited offense, he is a great athlete, rebounder, defender, with an improving 3pt ball, but outside of alley oops and fast breaks and his 3 he doesn't have any offense, he is an athletic 3 and D.

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Originally Posted by RekeHavoc

Nope all I heard was Dell was trying to do this. I'm sure there are tons of other possibilities though.

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cool thanks.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

The thing though Havoc with Ryno is that we are still rumored to be looking to move into the 1st. Rivers will NOT get us that. If the objective is really to get a 1st rounder, while still needing to shed cap space, I think Ryno would have the highest percentage. Just the way I look at it.

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I think Rivers can get us a first, but we'll see.

The Pelicans having 3.2M available in cash, can actually buy a 1st RD pick from a team who have multiple picks in the 1st Rd.

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Originally Posted by BIGBREED

The Pelicans having 3.2M available in cash, can actually buy a 1st RD pick from a team who have multiple picks in the 1st Rd.

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True, but we need to remove cap for Asik, not add.

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Originally Posted by RekeHavoc

I think Rivers can get us a first, but we'll see.

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I'd love for you to be correct, trust me. Would like to keep Ryno if at all possible.

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Originally Posted by BIGBREED

The Pelicans having 3.2M available in cash, can actually buy a 1st RD pick from a team who have multiple picks in the 1st Rd.

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I'm guessing 3.2mil is the going rate for 1st rounders?? I saw the tweet but just didn't get the 3.2 number.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

I'd love for you to be correct, trust me. Would like to keep Ryno if at all possible.

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I'm telling you, Rivers can get you around 25-30, just trust me :)

not really related to the topic, but still pels news

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